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#1 Edited by tparks (11081 posts) - - Show Bio

Halloween Monster Mash: Creeper vs Marcus

I want to see a bunch of monster battles for the Halloween season. This one has two flying monsters with amazing stats that can both shrug off bodily damage as if it is meaningless.

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Rules

  • Morals on, in character (which is totally relevant)
  • Win by any mean
  • Fight takes place on a long stretch of freeway at night, with bystanders driving various vehicles at high speeds. Both combatants start off flying 100 feet apart.
No Caption Provided

Other Monster Mash Battles

Ustanak vs Nemesis - A resident evil monster battle

Jason Voorhees vs Henrietta Knowby (Evil Dead)

Creeper (Jeepers Creepers) vs Marcus (Underworld)

Pyramid Head vs Safe Head

Ghostface (Scream) vs The Miner (My Bloody Valentine)

Lickers (Resident Evil) Demodogs (Stranger Things)

Please let me know if you'd like to be tagged in future Monster Mash Battles this October!!!

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#2 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Marcus in a decent fight.

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#3 Posted by tparks (11081 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by BobLeGod (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeepers Creepers stands no chance.

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#5 Edited by Superhero24 (4593 posts) - - Show Bio

Creeper could actually win this. A modified M61 Vulcan fire didn't put the Creeper down. The creepers also tore thru a prison cell metal bars. He was able to flip a truck and knock down a bus at the same time. He also punched thru metal numerous times and has magical weapons. He also flies very fast as he caught up to a motor bike after the dude had a few minutes head start and caught up to him in like one minute. Marcus should be similar, but I dont remember him flying that fast or being that strong based on feats.

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#6 Posted by JohnPeterBanana (1155 posts) - - Show Bio

Creeper could actually win this. A modified M61 Vulcan fire didn't put the Creeper down. The creepers also tore thru a prison cell metal bars. He was able to flip a truck and knock down a bus at the same time. He also punched thru metal numerous times and has magical weapons. He also flies very fast as he caught up to a motor bike after the dude had a few minutes head start and caught up to him in like one minute. Marcus should be similar, but I dont remember him flying that fast or being that strong based on feats.

This. Creeper is actually way better than what I remembered. W/o a respect thread I would've said Marcus.

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#7 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

Creeper but Markus puts up a fight.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Marcus.

I don't think it's that close ...

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#9 Edited by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@ithemanwithoutfeari: you are correct; it isn't that close.

Markus dies horribly after flying around for a bit.

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Markus rips him to shreds pretty easily. The creeper seems to be a wall level fighter, rocking a bus, the flipping the truck. tearing a hole in the bus is not as impressive since the high school girl was able to do the same with the metal rod.

Anyways, the problem comes down to his healing factor, he needs to eat a body part to regenerate. that's not going to happen, markus would end up tearing him to pieces.

Markus can destroys werewolves that can do this

Loading Video...

He's just gonna keep reaping the creeper until it has no more spear parts.

Markus is more durable, he's taken multiple hits from Michael that can ragdoll the above werewolf, much stronger than victor that can subdue a wall buster with a single hand, And he was able to outpace selene before she got the evolution upgrade, and she had dodged bullets twice after they had been fired at her before she got the upgrade. She's not faster than a bullet, but she's a bullet timer.

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#12 Edited by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: Win by any means, means Creeper has his truck. Markus dies. It's foolish to believe other wise.

And he didn't just pry open the hood of the bus; he ripped it off with his bare hands -- better yet, he used the wings themselves to pierce it (those are strong wings) -- Markus was barely able to lift a stone wall. It took him many, many minutes to lift it just enough to assist William.

He himself is not that fast. Selene is but scaling can only do so much for you. I'm so tired of scaling...

Creeper is far from just wall level, as he too could perform that lowly truck feat you shared above. His wings themselves lifted and suspended a damn truck/SUV on the move. I will find the gif.

He also tanked mini gun fire from close range only to rise up with ease and walk away barely scathed.

By no means, does Markus win this "easily". If he does win, (he won't) he does it after enduring the fight of his life.

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#13 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@sawed_off_it:

Win by any means, means Creeper has his truck. Markus dies. It's foolish to believe other wise.

I fail to see how the truck helps him here?

And he didn't just pry open the hood of the bus; he ripped it off with his bare hands -- better yet, he used the wings themselves to pierce it (those are strong wings) -- Markus was barely able to lift a stone wall. It took him many, many minutes to lift it just enough to assist William.

Mate there is a huge difference between those two events. Yes he punched through the top of the bus, but a girl was also able to pierce through the same bus with a metal rod, and she did it twice, and it didn't look super hard for her. Meaning that feat is not as impressive as you think it is, Marcus has better feat with his wing, being able to shatter the skull of Kraven, a vampire several hundred years old with wall level durability. Trust me, that girl isn't driving an iron rod through a stone wall.

The marcus stone wall feat, dude that's likely more impressive than anything the creeper has shown, this was a large stone door that was partially submerged in water. He needed his hybrid from to lift it, and before he passed through, he briefly held it up with a single arm above his head.

He himself is not that fast. Selene is but scaling can only do so much for you. I'm so tired of scaling...

I wasn't basing his speed on scaling, but scaling is perfectly applicable here since his stats were higher than pre-hybrid selene. I was basing his speed off of their encounter at the bottom of the cliff where he blitzed her from several meters away before she could point her gun.

Creeper is far from just wall level, as he too could perform that lowly truck feat you shared above. His wings themselves lifted and suspended a damn truck/SUV on the move. I will find the gif.

Dude he is wall level, every feat he has performed has come up to wall level at best. His best feat was being able to pull that truck while trying to escape the harpoon. Not saying it wasn't impressive it was, and of course he'd be able to perform the feat I posted, that was done by a guard wolf, Markus was able to overpower Michael who ragdolls the werewolf above. Anyways, unless you're talking about a different feat, he wasn't able to suspend the SUV as you say, he had trouble pulling off the truck. Markus pulled down and overpowered the engine of an escaping helicopter in a single yank.

He also tanked mini gun fire from close range only to rise up with ease and walk away barely scathed.

Come on walked away with ease, he took a few of those, and it took him almost half a minute to get up, and even when he did, you could see him stumbling away. Compare this to markus who was eating all manner of gunfire the whole movie and it didn't even slow him down. Selene unloaded straight into his face twice, and he was still moving. The creeper loses limbs when he gets hit by vehicles. Selene pinned marcus to the side of a hill with a lorry and dragged him across, and he gets right back up healing himself. Dude don't even think about comparing their healing factor. The creeper needs to eat body parts to regenerate damage, something that even a high school girl can inflict with just a metal rod, markus insta-heals from most of the things he was hit with.

The reason the creeper loses easily is Speed and Healing Factor. The creeper does seem to have superhuman speed, but it is no where near markus speed. Marcus is shown several times able to outpace selene, someone who has better speed and reaction than the creeper. Now his durability is something that markus will simply tear through. If he gets a single hit to the head from marcus, it's head will shatter as kraven's did, and there is no spare part to eat, from this point markus would just proceed to dismember the creeper. This is a mismatch.

A better match would be pre-hybrid selene against the creeper, they both have and even then selene takes him with probably mid difficulty, by virtue of being faster, more agile, and more durable. Strength is the only thing they might be comparable at, but there was a scene where selene did hold back a werewolf capable of reproducing that feat with a single arm from an awkward position, so she might even be stronger than he is.

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#14 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: No "dude" you are so wrong on so many of your statements. Busy atm bit I will respond when I can.

Dear Lord, this is lowball if I have ever seen one. Markus is hardly as impressive as you make him out to be.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5a93651393625 (929 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack:

Markus pulled down and overpowered the engine of an escaping helicopter in a single yank.

That's one of those feats that only makes sense if Markus weighs multiple tonnes, which we know he doesn't so it's just PIS & thus not applicable. Just sayin'.

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#16 Edited by deactivated-5a93651393625 (929 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know about this one Markus is a bit stronger & more durable & has a better healing factor but Creeper doesn't really need a better healing factor than Markus since he can still function regardless of damage & I think Creeper is a lot faster in the air.

I'm kinda leaning toward Markus dealing massive amounts of damage to Creeper but Creeper ultimately taking Markus's head since even if he drops his axe he can summon it back so yeah he probably decapitates Markus.

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#17 Edited by deactivated-5a93651393625 (929 posts) - - Show Bio

& just to show how impressive taking fire from a Vulcan Cannon is, it fires these.

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The big one dwarfing a .50 BMG.

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#18 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@oopsislipped: He has superhuman strength, why does he need to weigh several tons to pull down a helicopter?

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#19 Posted by deactivated-5a93651393625 (929 posts) - - Show Bio

@oopsislipped: He has superhuman strength, why does he need to weigh several tons to pull down a helicopter?

Because he would've just pulled himself up unless he weighs more than what the chopper could lift.

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#20 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@oopsislipped:

don't know about this one Markus is a bit stronger & more durable & has a better healing factor but Creeper doesn't really need a better healing factor than Markus since he can still function regardless of damage & I think Creeper is a lot faster in the air.

I'm kinda leaning toward Markus dealing massive amounts of damage to Creeper but Creeper ultimately taking Markus's head since even if he drops his axe he can summon it back so yeah he probably decapitates Markus.

The reason the healing factor is an issue is because the creeper is unable to heal, he either tanks the damage or if he takes too much damage(using losing a limb) he needs to eat the equivalent body part from someone else. Which is why markus would dismember him.

Creeper's best speed feat was chasing down that truck, Markus did the same thing. Beside he outpaced selene a bullet timer in battle, so he is faster than the creeper.

Why won't Markus just break or bend the axe. Soren a much weaker vampire was able to break apart the huge locks on a steel door from just a kick, selene with her arm having being ripped to shreds by markus was able to pull a metal rod out of michael snapping the bolt holding it in place. These are two instances of weaker vampires breaking metal, and not the roof of the bus kind. Markus breaks his weapon, or better still uses it to dismember the creeper. The creeper does have some form of TK, but I wonder will he be able to pry the ax off of Markus's hands

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#21 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@oopsislipped: But you're treating him like he is a regular human. It just means he was exacting enough force from the pull to overwhelm the engines of the helicopter, you can even see the engines overloading. It's the superhuman strength he has that prevents him from being overpowered

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#22 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@sawed_off_it: Alright mate, i look forward to your argument, and the feats you provide. I'm not low-balling the creeper here, this is just a mismatch.

Markus is just too strong. For him to pull down the helicopter trying to escape, he'd likely have had to overcome a force in the tens, possibly 100+ tons of force when you take the weight and speed, and power of the engines into consideration. And he didn't even strain doing it. The creeper isn't taking hits from this guy without losing limbs like he does from car crashes.

Markus is faster. Travel speed is difficult to tell, both have been able to chase down moving trucks without trouble and markus actual hangs in front of the truck maintaining constant speed meaning he could have gone faster, but i guess the same applies for the creeper. But combat speed is where markus destroys, he overwhelms selene a bullet timer in speed, he's gonna be too much for the creeper.

Better healing factor, durability. Means the creeper has no chance.

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#23 Edited by deactivated-5a93651393625 (929 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack:

The reason the healing factor is an issue is because the creeper is unable to heal, he either tanks the damage or if he takes too much damage(using losing a limb) he needs to eat the equivalent body part from someone else. Which is why markus would dismember him.

Unless Creeper does it first.

Creeper's best speed feat was chasing down that truck, Markus did the same thing. Beside he outpaced selene a bullet timer in battle, so he is faster than the creeper.

That's not his best speed feat. His best speed feats are when he's seen flying completely out of sight & nearly over the horizon in mere seconds. Markus may be faster on the ground but Creeper is like a jet in the air.

Why won't Markus just break or bend the axe.

Because the stuff Creeper builds are magic or something, why else would a bullet meant to take out tanks just ricochet off his truck? I can't say with any certainty that Markus couldn't break it but personally I really doubt it.

The creeper does have some form of TK, but I wonder will he be able to pry the ax off of Markus's hands

That is a very good question.

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#24 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@oopsislipped:

Unless Creeper does it first.

Does what first? Eat people? The OP didn't mention there were people around, besides, he'd eventually run out of parts no? Marcus was in constant battle from when he woke up till he fought selene in that truck, he only left because he probably couldn't gamble on whether the sun would affect him or not. So he does have the extensive stamina needed to keep dismembering the creeper.

That's not his best speed feat. His best speed feats are when he's seen flying completely out of sight & nearly over the horizon in mere seconds. Markus may be faster on the ground but Creeper is like a jet in the air.

Which feat are you talking about, the one where he jumps from the schoolbus or when he picks up the kid by a tree, anyways, either of them he just got out of the line of sight of the kids, and plus the night sky. Unless it's a different feat, what horizon are you talking about? Anyways, Marcus is scaled above pre-hybrid selene and she blitzed humans a lot, the first time she might Michael, despite him seeing someone had broken into his apartment and being on alert, she blitzed him from the front, he didn't see her until she had him pinned against the wall.

Because the stuff Creeper builds are magic or something, why else would a bullet meant to take out tanks just ricochet off his truck? I can't say with any certainty that Markus couldn't break it but personally I really doubt it.

That's a good point, he did seem to use "weird technology" lol those bombs. Anyways it is possible that the axe might not just be ordinary metal.

But given how much power Markus can exact, if he gets that axe from the Creeper, i don't see him being able to take it off him, barring the TK of course which is too vague to say

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5a93651393625 (929 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack:

Does what first?

Hacks Marcus apart.

Which feat are you talking about

When he snatched the kid in the cornfield in broad daylight.

i don't see him being able to take it off him, barring the TK of course which is too vague to say

Agreed. No one can really say one way or the other.

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#26 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: Wrong.

I fail to see how the truck helps him here?

The fact that it's indestructible in this fight. Markus can do nothing to it, and Creeper doesn't have to do anything as it drives itself and activates the traps and machinery on its own accord.

It has bombs that follow a target before exploding
It has bombs that follow a target before exploding
Deflects oncoming machine gun fire and hits the shooter directly following. Sending the bullets back at the exact angle it was shot from.
Deflects oncoming machine gun fire and hits the shooter directly following. Sending the bullets back at the exact angle it was shot from.
A rope dart that easily penetrates a cop car.
A rope dart that easily penetrates a cop car.

That's just 3 new additions that make the truck formidable.

Mate there is a huge difference between those two events. Yes he punched through the top of the bus, but a girl was also able to pierce through the same bus with a metal rod, and she did it twice, and it didn't look super hard for her. Meaning that feat is not as impressive as you think it is, Marcus has better feat with his wing, being able to shatter the skull of Kraven, a vampire several hundred years old with wall level durability. Trust me, that girl isn't driving an iron rod through a stone wall.

Super hard? From the interior and aimed at the weakest are of the roof. Did you see the hole Creeper punched through? He also did so to a cop car while lifting the cop above the seat and holding him there.

Your feat is sad in comparison. So what he shattered a skull of Kraven. What combat feats does he have? Just because a vampire IS a vampire, doesn't mean they all have superb durability. He's a spoiled and arrogant clown. He is by no means meant to be a powerful or strong character. Destroying his head is not that big a deal.

This is Kraven. Not a Stone Wall -- And what? Lifting strength =/= Striking Power. Come on now.

The marcus stone wall feat, dude that's likely more impressive than anything the creeper has shown, this was a large stone door that was partially submerged in water. He needed his hybrid from to lift it, and before he passed through, he briefly held it up with a single arm above his head

What? Barely lifting a wall; of which took him far too long to do; especially if you're going to stand behind it so strongly. I don't think you understand what Wall Level means. Your knowledge on both characters is certainly lacking.

Being partially submerged in water, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that should make it more manageable.

"Briefly" Hahahahahahh Please! He was moving under it AFTER using every bit of strength he had to lift it. It is certainly impressive he lifted it but don't misrepresent what actually happened in order to strengthen your argument.

I wasn't basing his speed on scaling, but scaling is perfectly applicable here since his stats were higher than pre-hybrid selene. I was basing his speed off of their encounter at the bottom of the cliff where he blitzed her from several meters away before she could point her gun

Normal lycans have blitzed her before she could draw her gun. If you're going to point out any speed feat, stay on CQC speed when he fought her up close. That was okay. He has only ever flown at the speed of a trucks. A banged up and older truck that is.

Dude he is wall level, every feat he has performed has come up to wall level at best.

Just because you say it definitively doesn't mean it is so. You don't even know what Wall Level means. Obviously. Based on your next statement.

His best feat was being able to pull that truck while trying to escape the harpoon. Not saying it wasn't impressive it was, and of course he'd be able to perform the feat I posted

That is one of his best strength feats, yes. And it's far more impressive than anything Markus has done. Prove me wrong. Show me one feat similar. His only other feat is pulling down on a cable and swaying a helicopter. Impressive but nothing too much.

that was done by a guard wolf,

Raze? He's not fodder or a guard wolf.

Anyways, unless you're talking about a different feat, he wasn't able to suspend the SUV as you say, he had trouble pulling off the truck

Yes, I was mistaken. He actually just used his wings to flip over the truck. Showing how stromg his wings actually are; then kidnapping Addison before the truck even hits the ground.

He is far above Wall Level, and above Markus.

Come on walked away with ease, he took a few of those, and it took him almost half a minute to get up, and even when he did, you could see him stumbling away.

Of course he took the gunfire....? The camera panned to the other cop and then to the other guy. So what it took him a few moments. Markus would've died in the process.

Compare this to markus who was eating all manner of gunfire the whole movie and it didn't even slow him down

Show me. Show him enduring anything of that magnitude. Of a mini gun at close range. Please.

Selene unloaded straight into his face twice, and he was still moving

Oh 2 pistol shots. And?

The creeper loses limbs when he gets hit by vehicles.

Oh you're talking about when Creeper leaps over their car with ease and then just lets them run him over for no reason? Again and again.

The creeper needs to eat body parts to regenerate damage, something that even a high school girl can inflict with just a metal rod, markus insta-heals from most of the things he was hit with.

Show me a high school girl inflicting damage with a metal rod. Don't forget about context for the fifteenth time please. I'll wait.

The reason the creeper loses easily is Speed and Healing Factor.

Markus isn't faster than the Creeper, by any means. On land, maybe, but that's why Creeper has a magical truck lol

Healing factor can only do so much.

Bullet timing feat, on land at close range
Bullet timing feat, on land at close range

And he can fly from the ground and into the sky within a second or two. Far faster than Corvinus flight.

The creeper does seem to have superhuman speed, but it is no where near markus speed

Show me Markus doing anything on par with Creeper flight speed.

If he gets a single hit to the head from marcus, it's head will shatter as kraven's did

Kraven <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Creeper. Boy you have some bad logic.

This is a mismatch.

Nah, Markus can put up some kind of fight.

A better match would be pre-hybrid selene against the creeper, they both have and even then selene takes him with probably mid difficulty, by virtue of being faster, more agile, and more durable. Strength is the only thing they might be comparable at, but there was a scene where selene did hold back a werewolf capable of reproducing that feat with a single arm from an awkward position, so she might even be stronger than he is.

None of what you say matter here. Changing the subject and using horrible comparisin to get your opinion across as fact.

Fact is, Markus is nowhere near Creeper in flight speed, durability, tech, and strength is close. Hell, on land, Creeper has bullet timing feats. They aren't that far off there. Lol

What you're forgetting is that the truck is a factor and it is a huge factor. Creeper doesn't have to control it and Markus has no idea about it, or it's components becoming death traps. And we've already established how superior Creeper is to Markus in flight speed.

As I stated before, Creeper wins a solid 8/10. Due to the rules in place especially.

I believe it even more so than I did earlier.

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#27 Posted by Cergic (675 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: Marcus is still a victim of the laws of physics. Unless he grounded himself or had near identical weight to the chopper then no, it still makes little sense that he didn't just pull himself up instead

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#28 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@oopsislipped:The reaper's axe is the only thing that could potentially damage marcus, he doesn't have the AP to bypass Markus durability, since even Michael struggled to do any damage. Now i have no doubt that the reaper has enough strength to cut markus with the axe (even i don't see him being capable of decapitating or doing impressive damage. Markus was capable of breaking through solid stone underground without a scratch), but the main problem is speed, the reaper won't be able to keep up with Markus is battle.

I looked up the flying you talked about, and it does look impressive no doubt, but it just means it is either 1 and outlier or 2, the creeper has impressive travel speed but not combat speed. He has been unable to avoid vehicles a lot of the time, and he doesn't move anywhere that fast in any of the movies.

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#30 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic: With superhuman attributes, like his strength and durability, does the still apply? Like for example, superman or thor doesn't have to be the weight of a plane before they are able to pull it.

What i was suggesting was, if the force his tug produced far exceeded the lift force of the heli, then would that still matter?

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#31 Edited by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@sawed_off_it:

The fact that it's indestructible in this fight. Markus can do nothing to it, and Creeper doesn't have to do anything as it drives itself and activates the traps and machinery on its own accord.

Yes the minigun was deflected, but what is interesting to note is that the same bullets barely damaged the truck that had the mounted gun. Rewatch the scene, and you see that it put holes in the glass killing the driver but it didn't put any holes in the car. Now i'm not sure how much power a real life M61 produces, i tried checking but couldn't find anything. But if that one was not strong enough to go through the police truck too then i really don't know how much it counts for the creeper's truck. Now the GIF saying it reflects in the exact same angle simply isn't true. You can see when the cop shot at it that the bullet ricochets to a different location. It is weird that those ricochets go back in the general direction of origin, but the creeper's weapons are unusual so there's that.

Anyways, the truck never reflected a punch, the kids with the bikes hit it, Markus is just gonna punch through it or better yet, flip it on it's side.

As for the bombs, they go on the ground, Markus can fly, and he mostly flies so it's in character for him. The rope dart is also a non factor here. It can only shoot from one place, meaning markus would have to be there, also the amount of time it takes to hit the kid that was about 30 meters away on his bike suggest that markus can likely avoid it. That things looks like it moves about 10 -15m/s tops. So again, the truck is a non-factor to Markus.

Super hard? From the interior and aimed at the weakest are of the roof. Did you see the hole Creeper punched through? He also did so to a cop car while lifting the cop above the seat and holding him there.

Your feat is sad in comparison. So what he shattered a skull of Kraven. What combat feats does he have? Just because a vampire IS a vampire, doesn't mean they all have superb durability. He's a spoiled and arrogant clown. He is by no means meant to be a powerful or strong character. Destroying his head is not that big a deal.

This is Kraven. Not a Stone Wall -- And what? Lifting strength =/= Striking Power. Come on now.

Weakest part of the roof. Lolwhut. Seriously what gave you that impression. Creeper punches a hole though the bus. Girl does the same albeit with a metal rod, and she does it twice. Why does it matter if it's from interior or exterior, they both go through the roof.

Lol for real?, he punched a hole, something which a girl in the same movie can do, then he lifted a man with a single hand lol, that is an impressive feat? Dude that's barely superhuman and you say it's sad compared to shattering the skull of a vampire. Vampires that are shown to jump multiple stories down with no effect. Multiple vampires at the start jump down about 12 storied with no problem. Newly turned michael jumped down multiple stories no problem, even kraven falls down what looks like at least 2 stories straight into metal and stone and walks off with no problem. Kraven was one of viktor's trusted men, alive for at least more than 6 centuries, while he might not have been a better fighter than selene and all. His advanced age means he was as durable as selene, and taking multiple hits from viktor and other lycan's places her at wall level.

What? Barely lifting a wall; of which took him far too long to do; especially if you're going to stand behind it so strongly. I don't think you understand what Wall Level means. Your knowledge on both characters is certainly lacking.

Being partially submerged in water, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that should make it more manageable.

"Briefly" Hahahahahahh Please! He was moving under it AFTER using every bit of strength he had to lift it. It is certainly impressive he lifted it but don't misrepresent what actually happened in order to strengthen your argument.

That scene was a little odd, but if you rewatch it, you would see that he changed into hybrid form and then the scene changes, when we return to him, we see him trying to find the bottom to lift it, and as soon as he did, he was able to lift it. Why should it being underwater make the feat more manageable??

Rewatching the scene now, I do agree that he was passing through and had one hand on it momentarily( too quickly to matter). Besides the single arm wasn't the point of the feat, but that was able to lift that amount of stone over his head.

Normal lycans have blitzed her before she could draw her gun. If you're going to point out any speed feat, stay on CQC speed when he fought her up close. That was okay. He has only ever flown at the speed of a trucks. A banged up and older truck that is.

They have?? When exactly. He was clearly faster than the truck since he had to slow down not to go past it, as you can see him hovering right in front of it.

Just because you say it definitively doesn't mean it is so. You don't even know what Wall Level means. Obviously. Based on your next statement. That is one of his best strength feats, yes. And it's far more impressive than anything Markus has done. Prove me wrong. Show me one feat similar. His only other feat is pulling down on a cable and swaying a helicopter. Impressive but nothing too much.

For real mate? So tell me, what is wall level? Because it seems you are suggesting that what the creeper did with the truck was more than wall level.

and yes the helicopter feat is far more impressive than the truck feat. Mate he flipped a static truck, markus pulled down an escaping helicopter overloading the engines are you kidding me.

Raze? He's not fodder or a guard wolf.

Raze died in underworld. This was random werewolf that Lucian gave to tanis recently as guard dogs. So, scrubs.

Show me. Show him enduring anything of that magnitude. Of a mini gun at close range. Please.

Michael and hybrid selene's punches. Again i couldn't find any specific information on the power of the M61, but going by kinetic energy, wont it be in kilojoules, if it is, then it's wall level.

Oh 2 pistol shots. And?

lol just no. You probably need to watch underworld again if you think that's how selene shoots. She unloaded multiple slugs straight into his face. Dude the creeper rammed into a truck and lost an arm and leg and had to do the grasshopper leap, markus did something similar and was still fighing. The creeper doesn't seem to function like a human to the bullet holes won't really be a problem for him, since he doesn't bleed. On the other hand, blunt force damage, or slashing his limbs are super-effective.

You can't even compare the durability of the 2. the creeper is no where close to Markus, especially the fact that we dont even know that he has a healing factor. he only regenerates by eating similar body parts, and it even has to be of those that are compatible or what not.

Show me a high school girl inflicting damage with a metal rod. Don't forget about context for the fifteenth time please. I'll wait.

Really, so you're saying a highschool girl didn't ram a pole through his head?. My point was that if she was able to stab through his head, Markus is definitely pulverizing it.

After ripping the pole off his head, he jumps off the bus and you can see that he immediately lands back on his back, that suggested that he sustained damage from losing that part of his head. He only started moving normally again after he had secured a head from a kid in the bus and ripped off his own.

Markus isn't faster than the Creeper, by any means. On land, maybe, but that's why Creeper has a magical truck lol

Oh he is faster. The shotgun with the axe thing was impressive suggesting the creeper might be a bullet timer, but one iffy part for me is, the creeper isn't shown when the cop fires the bullet, so it's possible that it was an aim-dodge kind of situation, but i'm willing to go along with the creeper having bullet timing reactions. Even then Markus is still faster. Selene is able to completely move herself out of the way of bullets after they have been shot and Markus still overwhelms her speedwise. Truck does nothing

Kraven <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Creeper. Boy you have some bad logic.

My statement wasn't comparing Kraven and the Creeper but their durability. If that high school girl could pierce through his head that easily, why would markus not shatter it. Seriously.

While the creeper is a formidable opponent, Markus is a bad match for him, since he loses limbs to easily and markus is able to shatter them very easily, and Markus is faster. It's why i said pre hybrid selene is a better opponent, because she uses guns which are not very effective against the creeper, and while he has the strength advantage, she has the speed, agility, and combat experience advantage.

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#32 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: This was fun. Maybe we can CaV it sometime, but I don't have the energy or desire to continue this further. We are going to continue going in circles,

You saying Markus has superior strength and durability, while I insists they're close but Creeper has magical projectiles that follow the target and slice victims a mere touch; they get blasted by a shotgun and it doesn't even scratch his daggers/stars,

Creeper also has far faster flight speed and a truck aiding him.

I believe Creeper would win a majority and you side Markus, that's fine and even understandable. Agree to disagree.

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#33 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@sawed_off_it: lol i guess agree to disagree. I was really hoping to convince you but oh well, and i'm cool with a CaV too.

Creeper's biggest problem is his low durability. The two times he was involved in an accident, he lost limbs and needs food to recover them, on the other hand he has a far more impressive resistance to piercing damage since his body doesn't work like normal and has no blood, which is why he can take gunfire or harpoons to different parts of his body and be fine, so long as they don't tear off him limbs. This is why he loses. because a single hit from markus will feel like a car crash to him.

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#34 Edited by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Still going with Marcus. He is 1-2 tiers above The Creeper.

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#35 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: No. Lol. You are citing a couple instances of his low durability being put on display amd forgetting abut all the other times he no sold alot of attacks.

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#36 Posted by T_ballack (83 posts) - - Show Bio

@sawed_off_it: But like I said, the attacks he no sold were all piercing attacks, things that pierce his body, and since the creeper doesn't function like a regular human, those piercing attacks don't make him bleed out, or stop his organs working, as we don't even know that he has organs. he has low durability to blunt force damage.

Blunt force i remember

First time he got hit by the car multiple times, you can see that it's injured since it can't even bring up it's wings and the next scene, it is shown eating to recover whatever limbs it lost.

Second time after losing it's head, it tries to fly away, but falls down hard, you can see that it was unmoving. It only started moving after it had ingested the kid's head into his body.

Third time he rams into a truck, it loses an arm and leg.

4th time hit by a truck driver, this one is difficult to tell, if it stayed down for a bit because it was hurt, or if it was just for the scare factor. The fact that it carried the the truck driver might have meant it needed to eat but it's just speculation.

I may have forgotten some, but all in all, the creeper does not have good durability to anything that isn't a piercing attack. And the piercing attack like i said is likely due to its cryptid physiology. It's like a gargoyle might be immune to bullets because of it's physiology, but a blunt force blow of the same force might knock it out. (That's just a random example lol)

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#37 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (12443 posts) - - Show Bio

@t_ballack: This would be fun to CaV but posting the last response doesn't make you right. I just have lost all interest in this debate. I made my points and you refuse to accept them as superior. Which is fine, opinions differ; its just rather tedious at this point.