Hal Jordan vs Beta Ray Bill

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jiggs1234

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#1  Edited By jiggs1234
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  • 616
  • New 52- Present
  • Who wins and why
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jiggs1234

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Underfire47

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Damn it's a fight of 2 legit planet busters.

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Dathomir

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I'll side with Hal, but I could be convinced otherwise.

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TakenStew22

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Been done.

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rawsos

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#7 rawsos  Online

idk any betaray feats so hal

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byondeon

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@rawsos said:

idk any betaray feats so hal

Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet
Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet

He can also keep up with Thor and Silver Surfer and character on that level. He is a casual planet buster at least.

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rawsos

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Underfire47

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@byondeon said:
@rawsos said:

idk any betaray feats so hal

Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet
Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet

He can also keep up with Thor and Silver Surfer and character on that level. He is a casual planet buster at least.

Damn look at those building sized planetoids, mighty impressive.

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rawsos

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#11 rawsos  Online

@byondeon said:
@rawsos said:

idk any betaray feats so hal

Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet
Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet

He can also keep up with Thor and Silver Surfer and character on that level. He is a casual planet buster at least.

Damn look at those building sized planetoids, mighty impressive.

is that sarcasm

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Underfire47

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@rawsos: The fact that those are tiny planetoids? No, i actually did an in-dept deconstruction of that feat some time ago.

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TakenStew22

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@byondeon: I wouldn't call that "casual" planet busting since BRB hammered Stardust's scythe while bullrushing into said planet.

@byondeon said:
@rawsos said:

idk any betaray feats so hal

Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet
Bullrushing Stardust into a planet, casually destroying it and he isn't even phased by the explosion of said planet

He can also keep up with Thor and Silver Surfer and character on that level. He is a casual planet buster at least.

Damn look at those building sized planetoids, mighty impressive.

Artists aren't good at replicating size for celestial objects. Also, pretty sure planetoids completely spherical in shape cannot be building sized.

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Underfire47

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#14  Edited By Underfire47

@takenstew22: Artists aren't good at replicating size for celestial objects. Also, pretty sure planetoids completely spherical in shape cannot be building sized.

Tell me where is anything that even hints at that being a planet in that run? Well these are comics after all i have seen planets that can fit in the palm of ones hand that were perfectly spherical, besides celestial objects can be spherical and still much, much smaller than any planet

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Not to mention in the same run Asteroth flies through perfectly spherical objects not much bigger than herself

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TakenStew22

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Tell me where is anything that even hints at that being a planet in that run?

I don't see anything indicating it isn't. The max you can lowball it is a large asteroid/small moon.

Well these are comics after all i have seen planets that can fit in the palm of ones hand that were perfectly spherical,

Which I'm guessing had context? This fight takes place in the middle of nowhere in space.

besides celestial objects can be spherical and still much, much smaller than any planet

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They are also much larger than any building, I can tell you that lol.

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TakenStew22

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Not to mention in the same run Asteroth flies through perfectly spherical objects not much bigger than herself

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Again, this has to do with the problem of art where they can't perfectly replicate what size or distance is.

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Underfire47

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@takenstew22: Again, tell me what even suggest or hints at that being a planet? Solely because it's a spherical object in the same book that had tons of spherical objects no bigger than small cars?

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Whathappened

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Asteroids can be miles long, they are bigger than any building

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DoTheTwist_

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@underfire47: please do go ahead with this in depth 'deconstruction' you did earlier because as of right now BRB would legit beat around 5 New 52 Hals before they could do anything to him.

Also Bill's bouts with Stardust are far from his only planet level feats. One could argue Bill is multi-planetary easily.

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Underfire47

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@dothetwist_: There is no way this isn't a troll post lol, yea totally man i remember when multi-planetary busters needed Voidans armory to plant them inside a planet to destroy it to prevent Galactus from feeding on it, rather than destroying the whole thing themselves by just hitting it with their fancy hammers.

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DoTheTwist_

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@underfire47: theirs no way anyone is this misinformed and blatantly incorrect yet continues to act so confident. So were just going to ignore Bill's massively impressive energy manipulation, storm creation, and overall versatility with his hammer that ranges well over planet level. Or are you just speaking out of ignorance here because you lack the proper research on any of these characters?

Once again, continue with this in depth deconstruction and I'll do my best to build over your strawman as I make you stop talking with evidence.

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UltraPhoenix

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Multi-planetary level Bill? This should be a fun read.

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Underfire47

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#23  Edited By Underfire47

@dothetwist_: Oh boy this is even better, not a troll but full on delusion. First off what does Bills energy manipulation, storm creation and versatility have to do with planet busting, excuse me "multi-planet" busting? None of those were ever used in his "planet busting" feats.

Man i can't wait to hear your side

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Lets start with Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill Issue #2

I have highlighted with a green marker the trail BRB and Stardust leave as BRB bullrushes him into a "planet" the energy/fire trail is slightly larger than them yet it's huge in comparison to the "planet" they crash into, which indicates that the planet is either much smaller or the artist botched the whole thing, now it's possible that he did botch the artwork but i have to ask what exactly is the evidence of this ever being a planet? Because it's a round Celestial body? Well there are several problems with that, first one is that there were plenty of celestial bodies like that the size of small cars even

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In fact Asteroth flew through 3 of them, destroying them.

Now the second problem is in Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter Issue #1

Where BRB once again slams Stardust into a planet and repeatedly hammers him and this time the planet is fine

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In fact when Galactus appears right after standing above the 2 of them

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we get an birds eye view of the planet and we can actually see Galactus standing on it(dont worry i circled him out for you)

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we can tell that the planet also isn't particularly big if Galactus can be seen from this angle, but it's big enough for BRB to need to use Voidan armory to blow it up, something he acquired earlier in the issue

rather than using his own power to blow up said planet, which had housed a measly population of 2142 people

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So once again i ask the question why use the armory if he can casually do it himself according to you? Is it because he just doesn't have the power and as was shown before with Asteroth in Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill Issue #2 the planetoids can be fairly small, here is more examples

Even if we go by the "trail" argument, did you see what happens after they bust the allegedly assumed planet? Beta Ray Bill tosses his hammer and the trail it leaves is clearly the size of the hammer itself, the hammer goes and circumnavigates another "planet or moon" 3 times before returning to the fight and you can clearly see the trail itself is not small enough to assume this stellar body was "planet sized or moon sized object" considering the size of Stormbreaker.

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Before the same argument gets pulled up, the hammer's trail clearly stood the same from the moment Bill tosses the hammer and the moment the hammer returns to the fight as it is painfully visible in previous panels. It didn't magically increase its size when going around the planet and then got smaller once again.

This is a composite image of two cropped panels for the sake of saving space. No context was altered besides sequence of events.
This is a composite image of two cropped panels for the sake of saving space. No context was altered besides sequence of events.

Considering the fact you can clearly see the other "planets and moons" laying around and having a significantly comparable size to the "planet" both Beta Ray Bill and Stardust landed on, I see no reason to believe the big spherical rock they busted is an actual planet but instead, the size of a building.

Now even though i think BRB is an impressive guy overall i don't think he is a planet buster, let alone a multi-planet buster because a multi-planet buster(in the same run as the one he "busted a planet" only one issue prior) wouldn't cry out and be stunned by a blast that did nothing more than scorch less than half the surface of a planet.

And a multi-planet buster wouldn't also be left with his armor/clothes completely burnt off, him scared and briefly KO'd from him, Asteroth and Stardust all colliding in the core of an actual planet and releasing their energies causing an explosion

And this above is btw the only REAL planetary feat Bill has gotten in the whole run and it's a feat of him getting briefly KO'd and scarred from being inside an exploding planet, a decent feat for sure but unfitting of a multi-planet buster or even a planet buster.

Now i would LOVE for you to debunk all of my "strawman"(btw i don't think you know what a strawman is lol) with all your evidence.

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Ouroborik

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Bill wins, regardless of debates about whether or not he busted a planet while fighting Stardust.

He cracked Galactus' armor, stalemated Thor three times and is generally portrayed as a solid high-tier able to hang with any herald that isn't a serious Silver Surfer. Hal Jordan is a tool when he isn't being written by GL wankers.

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Eredin12

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#25 Eredin12  Online

Hal wins

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Necrogod

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Don't know whether this is only me but Hal's feats are much more clear cut than that of Bill. So I'm siding with Jordan on this one

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userthatisme

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Hal. Idk if this would be a mismatch though cuz beta ray’s side is also in his favor from the other view

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Maalik

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Hal beats Thor honestly he should wash BRB.

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iknowwhoyouare

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Bill stomps

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eazy2002

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#30  Edited By eazy2002

Hal

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Eredin12

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#31 Eredin12  Online

@maalik: To be fair Bill is better, much faster Thor

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jiggs1234

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Punyaamrit

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both are legit planet busters but i'd give the fight to bill since this is new 52 hal

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asgardianweapon

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@takenstew22: Artists aren't good at replicating size for celestial objects. Also, pretty sure planetoids completely spherical in shape cannot be building sized.

Tell me where is anything that even hints at that being a planet in that run? Well these are comics after all i have seen planets that can fit in the palm of ones hand that were perfectly spherical, besides celestial objects can be spherical and still much, much smaller than any planet

No Caption Provided

Not to mention in the same run Asteroth flies through perfectly spherical objects not much bigger than herself

No Caption Provided

There is so much wrong in this analysis...

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DarkPrimeSovereign

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BRB tanked blasts from Galactus while Hal got merked by Zod and became his pet.

BRB > New 52 Hall

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TakenStew22

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BRB tanked blasts from Galactus while Hal got merked by Zod and became his pet.

BRB > New 52 Hall

When did this happen? It's been awhile since I've read Stormbreaker so maybe I forgot something.

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Underfire47

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@underfire47 said:

@takenstew22: Artists aren't good at replicating size for celestial objects. Also, pretty sure planetoids completely spherical in shape cannot be building sized.

Tell me where is anything that even hints at that being a planet in that run? Well these are comics after all i have seen planets that can fit in the palm of ones hand that were perfectly spherical, besides celestial objects can be spherical and still much, much smaller than any planet

No Caption Provided

Not to mention in the same run Asteroth flies through perfectly spherical objects not much bigger than herself

No Caption Provided

There is so much wrong in this analysis...

Name one thing.

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Necrogod

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Hal's feats are more clear cut so I'm still saying Hal wins but Daaamn why do people lowball BRB? He isn't even as wanked as Hulk/Thor/Superman.

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Aryan1990

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Hal stomps.

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finalbeta

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Hal feels like the stronger planet buster here.

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asgardianweapon

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#41  Edited By asgardianweapon

@underfire47:

Just one thing? ofc i can but i will do you a one better

First of all? there is next to no round celestial body that is building size.Why? because for what i know there is no substance that is as weak as this to crumble at their own weight needing so little.The examples that you showed are at least a good city in size

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And ofc they are icy objects. Icy is one of the weakest things in celestial bodies so they need less weight to be round.You will notice that they all (the icy bodies) will have no water on the surface only inside of them.

So let me start by breaking down this feat:

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You did say however, that we don't have a way to tell how big these things celestial bodies are but I disagree: We have that they are round, probably made of rocks (both), the moon have ocean on the surface etc.

For example being them both rocky/terrestrial bodies means that their baseline size and weight needed to become round is bigger than the icy ones. The smallest planet in the solar system is Pluto and the biggest moons on the solar system and the bigger (of the solar system) is the earth. However dwarf planets by definition are not massive enough to clear the surrondings of planetesimals (which our little planet doesn´t have). The minimum weight that a celestial object should have to be spheric is 1e+21kg and to not be considered a dwarf planet >1/10 earth´s mass.

No Caption Provided

So this helps us get a better conjecture of the size of both planets or at least the moon.Other important thing is that many of those moons can and have submoons also as long as they are at least 10e+5 times the smaller one according to Reid (1973). However none of those submoons are round they simply don't have enough gravitational pull to make a round rocky object orbiting them.

With the only exception is Pluto who scientists conjecture that has a binary system with its charon as it's not big enough to make it orbit them. So yea the next big thing that looks similar to this planet here are earth and our moon (the only planet with only one satellite) as the relative size of both of them seem quite similar

However what is very interesting is that the moon, if you look closely, has an ocean on it´s surface.

No Caption Provided

It could mean that

1 it probably has enough gravity to have an atmosphere. So more gravity than mercury and mars because theirs cannot stop gas from exiting to other space

2 it is an ocean exomoon

3 it could be in an habitable zone

which gives could mean the planet is very fucking huge to have a moon so massive that it has oceans.

tl dr

Basically going by all of that the smaller one has at least 10e+21 kg and the other is at least 100000 more massive. The smaller one probably has more gravity than the likes of mercury and mars and it is around it´s size at least. The bigger one could in theory be at most several earths in mass and at minimum what, around it´s size? maybe smaller.

Either way it's a planet

sources:

dk if i can link other sites and don´t want to pollute the site with like a bunch of stuff so i will put the concepts and you guys research for yourselves about that ok? You guys can easily find the info in wikipedia but in google scholar you can find the researchers and stuff

exomoons

exoplanets

ocean worlds

List of extrasolar candidates for liquid water

terrestrial planet

Do moons have moons? and if you want to go a little more in depth you can go for the research of Kollmeier & Raymond (2018)

Is there some upper limit in the moon size distribution?

do celestial objects need to be big to have water in its surface

What is the minimum mass required so that objects become spherical due to its own gravity?

What is the minimum mass of a celestial object so that it can have a round moon?

and now to the lighting round as it´is too much and took too much time to go for all of this.

  • Ofc there is more stuff like: Skuttlebutt, Bill's spaceship, which is so advanced that can know the exact population of a celestial body, wouldn't miss the terminology.
  • Bill´s ship, which is stated to be a bit weaker than him btw, is able to not only destroy but atomize the planet. Destroying =/= atomize. To exceed the gravitational binding energy and to vaporize something are so different that to vaporize bucky arm in captain america civil war it would be needed to have multi-building level output. (Skultlbutt needed a few minutes to do this tho) And by the way the ship recharge by “eating” stars
  • How many people live in a planet has nothing to do with it´s size,
  • bill says he can destroy moons with his fists and planets with it´s hammer which is consistent with statements of Thor, the narrative and i think Odin (and again Bill has an ship that would say “wEll aCtUaLlY” ) and hell even consistent with some of bill´s feats.
  • Perspective and artistic choice are factors in a bunch of your arguments. Like your argument of the size of this planet in question doesn´t make any sense cause both bill and stardust would form Perpendicular lines wich means that the trail would be incresingly bigger in the end and the perspective would make the trail, that is closer, seem bigger too.

phew that was a lot. As that applies to most of your errors in breakdown the feats in this miniseries i will stop here for now.

btw i agree that bill isn´t multi planetary

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Underfire47

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@asgardianweapon: Just one thing? ofc i can but i will do you a one better

Great.

First of all? there is next to no round celestial body that is building size.Why? because for what i know there is no substance that is as weak as this to crumble at their own weight needing so little.The examples that you showed are at least a good city in size

In real life? Yes? In comics there are round Celestial bodies the size of footballs and smaller all the way down to microscopic levels, because you know it's comics, the examples i used is to counter someone saying there are no round Celestial objects that are building size although there have been those that come pretty close to that, but even regardless if we go by them being city size it still serves my point that they are not planet/Earth size.

And ofc they are icy objects. Icy is one of the weakest things in celestial bodies so they need less weight to be round.You will notice that they all (the icy bodies) will have no water on the surface only inside of them.

Sure.

You did say however, that we don't have a way to tell how big these things celestial bodies are but I disagree: We have that they are round, probably made of rocks (both), the moon have ocean on the surface etc.

Well we can kinda tell how big they are, which is too say they are very, very small about building sized. I dunno how you see any of that in the example posted, like yes it's round which is irrelevant to it's size in comics and it's probably made or rock, which again is irreleant, there is no ocean or moon around it however.

For example being them both rocky/terrestrial bodies means that their baseline size and weight needed to become round is bigger than the icy ones. The smallest planet in the solar system is Pluto and the biggest moons on the solar system and the bigger (of the solar system) is the earth. However dwarf planets by definition are not massive enough to clear the surrondings of planetesimals (which our little planet doesn´t have). The minimum weight that a celestial object should have to be spheric is 1e+21kg and to not be considered a dwarf planet >1/10 earth´s mass.

Applying real life physics to this is irrelevant, there are entire universes that have fit in the palm of ones hand, so i don't care about the SCIENCE behind it, i want you to show me in the pictures themselves what proves that these "planets" are larger than building size.

However what is very interesting is that the moon, if you look closely, has an ocean on it´s surface.

I will be completely honest with you i don't see any ocean there. Ok i appreciate you going down the science route I really do it tells us that comics really aren't much science based which is to be expected and wit that said let's go back to the comics themselves. I will break down all the Celestial objects we see how tiny some of them are and how there is nothing to suggest that the one BRB broke is larger than the building as well as one that is much larger than a building although still not Earth size is not broken by Bill who needs actual armory/bombs to destroy it which again goes against the notion that he is a planet buster.

First of just to establish Celestial objects can indeed be building size, there are plenty of example in comics, my favorite being from Superman because you actually have a Celestial object standing next to buildings

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In fact Superman has destroyed a multitude of them

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The author himself even came out and said they aren't actually planet size or close to scale to our planets. As you can see they are perfectly round and seemingly made of rock but still only building size as one stands close to 2 buildings.

Now that we have established this, lets move to Bill bullrushing Stardust into one "planet"

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And i only call it a planet just for convenience sake, because NOWHERE in the issue is this actually called a planet.

Anyway as you can see the trajectory Bill and Stardust leave is drawn the scale and remains that same scale all the way until they hit the planet, now could this be an artist inconsistency? It's possible, but unfortunately it's the only thing we have to go by and it's reinforced when Asteroth goes through literally 4 "planets" and destroys/splits them all with just her wings

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These ones in particular are literally the size of small cars, especially since this was Asteroth at her weakest who when actually encountering a "normal" sized planet started to feed on it very slowly which caused certain calamities on the planet like earthquakes, ground breaking, tsunamis, etc... but she clearly didn't destroy it as casually as flying through 4 perfectly round Celestial objects just moments before

Very shortly after, Stardust bullrushes her into the core of the planet as Bill holds her and with the 3 of them combined the planet explodes from the core outwards.

This is the only instance of an actual planet being destroyed here that has anything to do with Bill and it's with the combined power of 3 beings and it also left Bill briefly KO'd with his clothes completely torn of and him all scratched up

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Somehow i don't think someone that can casually destroy a planet while hitting someone else into it would also get this hurt by another planet exploding. Which is fairly consistent with the other time Bill was stunned and hurt when Galactus fried one half of a planets surface

In fact in another comic Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter Issue #1

BRB once again slams Stardust into a planet and repeatedly hammers him and this time the planet is fine and he slams Stardust in almost exactly the same way he did in the other instance where the "planet" blew up

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In fact when Galactus appears right after standing above the 2 of them

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we get an birds eye view of the planet and we can actually see Galactus standing on it(dont worry i circled him out for you)

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we can tell that the planet also isn't particularly big if Galactus can be seen from this angle, but it's big enough for BRB to need to use Voidan armory to blow it up, something he acquired earlier in the issue

rather than using his own power to blow up said planet, which had housed a measly population of 2142 people

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So once again i ask the question why use the armory if he can casually do it himself according to you? Is it because he just doesn't have the power and as was shown before with Asteroth in Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill Issue #2 the planetoids can be fairly small, here is more examples

So the problems with the previous instance lies in these particular panels.

No Caption Provided

The start of it was still the size of Beta Ray Bill and Stardust even though they were much closer to the allegedly assumed "planet", and given the fact the trail itself isn't that much larger than them, I see no reason to believe it was getting "bigger". This also goes against the fact the trail started as a giant ball of energy that looked much bigger than the supposed "planets" even though the panel is clearly taken from a much farther perspective, which would imply the complete opposite of what you're stating, which is the trail was indeed getting smaller, ultimately show it isn't that much smaller than the "planet" they clashed with.

Even if we go by the "trail" argument, did you see what happens after they bust the allegedly assumed planet? Beta Ray Bill tosses his hammer and the trail it leaves is clearly the size of the hammer itself, the hammer goes and circumnavigates another "planet or moon" 3 times before returning to the fight and you can clearly see the trail itself is not small enough to assume this stellar body was "planet sized or moon sized object" considering the size of Stormbreaker.

No Caption Provided

Before the same argument gets pulled up, the hammer's trail clearly stood the same from the moment Bill tosses the hammer and the moment the hammer returns to the fight as it is painfully visible in previous panels. It didn't magically increase its size when going around the planet and then got smaller once again.

This is a composite image of two cropped panels for the sake of saving space. No context was altered besides sequence of events.
This is a composite image of two cropped panels for the sake of saving space. No context was altered besides sequence of events.

Considering the fact you can clearly see the other "planets and moons" laying around and having a significantly comparable size to the "planet" both Beta Ray Bill and Stardust landed on, I see no reason to believe the big spherical rock they busted is an actual planet but instead, the size of a rather big house.

Now if you can show me examples that would suggest that the main planet in question is "bigger" without resorting to real life examples since they don't work well with comics, i will be glad to hear them, until then to summarize.

  • Bill and Stardust trajectory remained the same size all the way to them hitting the planet and it looked huge compared to said "planet"
  • Bill bullrushed Stardust in almost exactly the same way in another instance involving a much larger "planet" and it remained unbothered, in fact Bill NEEDED to destroy said planet because Galactus was about to feed on it and he did by using technology to blow it up, not with his own power.
  • Asteroth destroyed 4 "planets" just by flying her wings through them while in the very next page she tried to feed on an actual planet that had life on it and she did so very slowly only causing earthquakes and tsunamis
  • The said planet got destroyed by Bill, Stardust and Asteroth going into it's core which briefly KO'd Bill and left him cut up which he shouldn't be if he can casually blow up planets
  • Bill was stunned and hurt by a blast that scorched half the surface of 1 planet, which he shouldn't be if he can casually blow up planets
  • The trajectory that Stormbreaker flew left a trail around another "planet" even circled it multiple times and the trajectory was clearly visible which gives us an idea that this was another house/building sized "planet" at best.

Now while i do think Bill is pretty powerful he can probably bust the Moon, maybe even a planet the size of Mars although that's definitely debatable, i do no think he ever actually busted an Earth sized planet and when he had direct opportunity to bust a planet that housed over 2000 people on it and on whose surface Galactus was still visible from far away space he resorted to using the weapons he stole instead of his own power, this all leads me to the conclusion that Bill is in fact not the planet buster he is presented as and at no point is the celestial object he destroyed called a planet and the only reason people assume that is because 1. Personal biases, 2. Lazy imagination that all round Celestial objects in comics have to be Earth size or similar which is disproven time and time again.

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Hal wins more times than not.

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#44  Edited By asgardianweapon

@underfire47:

Applying real life physics to this is irrelevant, there are entire universes that have fit in the palm of ones hand, so i don't care about the SCIENCE behind it, i want you to show me in the pictures themselves what proves that these "planets" are larger than building size.

Then do refrain from bringing up "science" in the first place. It makes you seem awfully inconsistent in your beliefs as just now rl knowlodge seemed to be enough to disprove the feat and now you are reeceding when i showed that that isn´t the case.

And i will not repeat myself mate, my arguments are right there for you to read it. Saying this and then going to your argument of Galactus unironicaly is interesting

who is btw super consistent in his size right?

Superman

If i remember right there is external context to this, this aren´t your run of the mill planet

I will be completely honest with you i don't see any ocean there.

up left
up left

Ok i appreciate you going down the science route I really do it tells us that comics really aren't much science based which is to be expected and wit that said let's go back to the comics themselves.

Oh the argument "i don´t feel like it so the data is wrong". Impressive how it´s an argument that people in so many topics like politic,economics etc. Look, you really seem to have a misleading view of science...

round Celestial objects that are building size although there have been those that come pretty close to that, but even regardless if we go by them being city size it still serves my point that they are not planet/Earth size

It´s not. The very least is continet/country sized and again if it is this size it literaly cannot have a round moon.This one clearly has. The artist doesn´t need to understand the concepts after all only depic them, right?

rather than using his own power to blow up said planet, which had housed a measly population of 2142 people

Falacy.The size of the population doesn´t have anything to do with the planet size. I adressed this earlier.The planet could have not a lot habitable space, the population could be dying etc etc.

Again, it´s more difficult to atomize than it´s is to destroy. AND the ship is weaker than him

Which is fairly consistent with the other time Bill was stunned and hurt when Galactus fried one half of a planets surface

Yeah the blast that barely stoped him and then he overpowered the same blast moments later

No Caption Provided

but she clearly didn't destroy it as casually as flying through 4 perfectly round Celestial objects just moments before
This is the only instance of an actual planet being destroyed here that has anything to do with Bill and it's with the combined power of 3 beings and it also left Bill briefly KO'd with his clothes completely torn of and him all scratched up




Because she and stardust literaly said she would be absorbing the energy of the planet so she will grow stronger and go to bigger celestial bodies. It´s also implied that she wasn´t the one doing the destruction but reveling in the destruction already caused or as the narration said

"(the) epic battle wich rocked the heavens and shook the very firmament of the universe" (yeah that sounds like an building level battle lol"


Bill and asteroth did nothing, all the energy is being provided by Stardust and this is after: Bill´s fought with Stardust, Galactus and alpha ray where he survived a life wipe, more than one planet destruction, being inside the star and assuming he was completly unharmed in ragnarok.

Either way all most of the energy would go directly to him and he kept fighting right after.Can´t believe you tried to make Bill tanking almost directly a bullrush that resulted in a planet exploding point blank into him into something that would help your point, that bill can´t do that.

Hell soon after Stardust with the help of red shift could stop a blast of galactus that destroyed a world for some time his peer (anihilation issue 3) ,terrax destroyed a planet around (anihilation heralds of galactus 2 i think ) that time as did silver surfer in anihilathion: silver surfer 4. In the anihilation files and before stardust would come back from the dead after issue 3 it said Stardust had "come back from planetary explosions" as in plural when his only other apperence is in Beta ray bill stormbreaker

No Caption Provided

So yea way to pull this out of context.

he can casually blow up planets

Never argued that

. I will break down all the Celestial objects we see how tiny some of them are and how there is nothing to suggest that the one BRB broke is larger than the building as well as one that is much larger than a building although still not Earth size is not broken by Bill who needs actual armory/bombs to destroy it which again goes against the notion that he is a planet buster.

No Caption Provided

It´s because you really want them to be building sized dude (wich is def not what was intended for this scene).

and again

And i´m going to be perfectly honest: your argument is quite bad

As you pointed out they are the
As you pointed out they are the "head" of this but by the angle the "tail" continue to grow indefinitely

meaning that it probably looks like these at distance

Bill and Stardust in green the rest is the energy
Bill and Stardust in green the rest is the energy

and ofc perspective debunk your claim easily

No Caption Provided

and this is not even all of Bill´s planetary feats

but let me get respond to a bunch of stuff at once

Anyway as you can see the trajectory Bill and Stardust leave is drawn the scale and remains that same scale all the way until they hit the planet, now could this be an artist inconsistency? It's possible, but unfortunately it's the only thing we have to go by and it's reinforced when Asteroth goes through literally 4 "planets" and destroys/splits them all with just her wings

Even if we go by the "trail" argument, did you see what happens after they bust the allegedly assumed planet? Beta Ray Bill tosses his hammer and the trail it leaves is clearly the size of the hammer itself, the hammer goes and circumnavigates another "planet or moon" 3 times before returning to the fight and you can clearly see the trail itself is not small enough to assume this stellar body was "planet sized or moon sized object" considering the size of Stormbreaker.

I lumped all of this together because it is at it´s core the same argument and of course has the same mistake.

Humans suck at scalling. And numbers too tbh. So this isn´t a problem of like one artist or the other and more of the issue of trying to draw something so vast you can´t wrap your head around it. In a tight schedule the artist has to choose between at least trying to draw in scale something that we don´t have enough knowllodge and even material and doing acetable breaks from reality

guess what they choose every time?

And just to prove my case there it is the problem recorently with celestial bodies we know or "fixed" sizes so you can´t argue about building sized earth or state/mountain sized jupiter

1 -big boat sized earth,2-moon sized quasar 3-state sized jupiter with mountain sized red spot 4-building sized earth 5-building sized sun
1-2 exitar seems tiny with the heroes could be seen even tho he is planet sized 3-4-building level earth and solar system 5-6 mogo seem tiny but then...7- we can see the curvature in the sun right there and 8 building sized earth again

i could go on and on and on but you get my point, this argument isn´t consistent or realistic without getting into pitfalls like that. Mogo right there is a pretty similar instance as the impact from superman seem at the same time tiny and big in relation to the planet but the planet seem big near the sun or exitar that suddenly seem building sized but then well

So there is here both an "mistake" in the portrail of the celestial bodies but it is an very welcomed one. It would frankly suck both to the artist and to the audience if the heroes, the ones doing the action and where the focous should be in the scene, would be portraid in scale next to this celestial bodies. They would not be portrayed at all

hell doesn´t even have to be a celestial body:

So to argue that perfect scale is needed is both silly and unrealistic and it´s unecessary pedantry on feats that you don´t want to be

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@takenstew22: During his Godhunter arc. I've pretty much forgotten about it but it's one of the few memorable feats I remember about BRB. I'm highly sure he wasn't amped in the series, but I think I recall Gally being weaker than usual.

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#47  Edited By Underfire47

@asgardianweapon: Then do refrain from bringing up "science" in the first place. It makes you seem awfully inconsistent in your beliefs as just now rl knowlodge seemed to be enough to disprove the feat and now you are reeceding when i showed that that isn´t the case.

I didn't bring up "science" i brought up examples of round objects that can be far smaller than planets. Real life knowledge does not disprove the feat in the slightest, if we relied on rl knowledge entirely all it would tell us is that it could be the size of a city instead of a building, which is still a far cry from a size of any planet.

And i will not repeat myself mate, my arguments are right there for you to read it. Saying this and then going to your argument of Galactus unironicaly is interesting

I don't need you to repeat anything, as you didn't say anything that's relevant to the comic. What's so unironic about Galactus?

who is btw super consistent in his size right?

LOL, this is a pretty dumb argument... For starters Galactus can change his size and more importantly i gave you how big Galactus appeared in the comic next to BRB and from birds eye view in the same comic

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I have no idea what does bringing Galactus from completely unrelated comics have to do with anything? You would have a point if we didn't see how big Galactus was already in relation to BRB.

If i remember right there is external context to this, this aren´t your run of the mill planet

I am not sure what context you are referring to, the planets themselves were inside Golem who had an entire universe in himself, so maybe you are referring to that? But what does that have to do with the fact that these were still called planets and were completely spherical while also the size of buildings?

up left

Are you referring to the shadow/dark part of the "planet" as an ocean? Cause i don't think that's an ocean lol.

Oh the argument "i don´t feel like it so the data is wrong". Impressive how it´s an argument that people in so many topics like politic,economics etc. Look, you really seem to have a misleading view of science...

I dunno why you are getting so triggered, i never even said your data is wrong, your data is in fact correct, remove your emotions from the equation and debate like a normal person or go to the youtube comment section. The problem with your data is once again you are using real life data to disprove comic books who notoriously do not follow real life science.

It´s not. The very least is continet/country sized and again if it is this size it literaly cannot have a round moon.This one clearly has. The artist doesn´t need to understand the concepts after all only depic them, right?

Based on what exactly? Like show me in the actual comic ANY reason for why it would be country/continent size? It can in a comic book, just how Asteroth could fly through 4 perfectly round celestial bodies that don't appear to be larger than a car

No Caption Provided

Falacy.The size of the population doesn´t have anything to do with the planet size. I adressed this earlier.The planet could have not a lot habitable space, the population could be dying etc etc.

Did i ever said that it does? It certainly doesn't help it's case though, although i already said that planet in particular is definitely far larger than any building, the population wasn't dying. It was a planet that was colonized and the 2000+ living there evacuated just before Galactus arrived.

Again, it´s more difficult to atomize than it´s is to destroy. AND the ship is weaker than him

The planet wasn't atomized? What? It blew up into large chunks, Bill was even standing on one of them afterwards

The ship is weaker than Bill but NOT THE VORIDIAN ARMORY, do you even know the comic i am talking about? Just before this, Bill took the weapons from Voridian which had quite a variety and were fairly impressive

No Caption Provided

Bill took it from him after he beat him

No Caption Provided

Yeah the blast that barely stoped him and then he overpowered the same blast moments later

There is no confirmation that this was the same blast, the first one was much larger and looked different as in it actually had an arrow shaped head

No Caption Provided

as oppose to the second one which didn't have the arrow head and was smaller in scale

No Caption Provided

Now is it possibly it's the same blast? Sure, but it might not be and secondly this doesn't take away that Bill was stunned by the first one, the reason he overpowered the second one is because he hit it with the hammer not his own body

No Caption Provided

Because she and stardust literaly said she would be absorbing the energy of the planet so she will grow stronger and go to bigger celestial bodies. It´s also implied that she wasn´t the one doing the destruction but reveling in the destruction already caused or as the narration said

Are you trolling right now? First off yes she will grow stronger and all that but she isn't there at that point yet, secondly she is the one that is doing the destruction she is literally on the surface of said planet feeding on it

No Caption Provided

And thirdly i dunno if you are spazzing out but this planet, the one she is on the one that blew up when Bill, Stardust and Asteroth went into the planets core is an actual planet of "decent" size, i already said this in the previous post, how do you confuse this to the other planets i was talking about? Hello?

Bill and asteroth did nothing, all the energy is being provided by Stardust and this is after: Bill´s fought with Stardust, Galactus and alpha ray where he survived a life wipe, more than one planet destruction, being inside the star and assuming he was completly unharmed in ragnarok.

This is debatable, but even so ok, it was Stardust that caused the planet to blow up. I have no idea what Bill fighting Stardust beforehand has to do with anything, he got stunned by a blast that scorched half of planets surface sure, he survived one actual planet destruction and was briefly KO'd and mangled all over his body for it, being inside a star is normal for any most high-tiers/heralds to whitstand, besides Bill wasn't even inside the star, he started falling towards one but never even broke it's surface before he woke up and flew away

No Caption Provided

First off Bill survived Ragnarok because he arrived there while in the middle or most of it already being underway

Secondly he actually would have died at the end of it if a mysterious figure didn't heal him in the end

Either way all most of the energy would go directly to him and he kept fighting right after.Can´t believe you tried to make Bill tanking almost directly a bullrush that resulted in a planet exploding point blank into him into something that would help your point, that bill can´t do that.

No most of the energy would go into Asteroth, as Bill was directly behind. Your mind works in really weird ways. Because he got briefly KO'd by the explosion and was all cut up from it? Despite not even bearing the direct brunt of the attack that caused it to blow up? Bill can clearly tank a planet exploding but not unscathed or conscious during all of it.

Hell soon after Stardust with the help of red shift could stop a blast of galactus that destroyed a world for some time his peer (anihilation issue 3) ,terrax destroyed a planet around (anihilation heralds of galactus 2 i think ) that time as did silver surfer in anihilathion: silver surfer 4. In the anihilation files and before stardust would come back from the dead after issue 3 it said Stardust had "come back from planetary explosions" as in plural when his only other apperence is in Beta ray bill stormbreaker

Is this a thread about heralds of Galactus or Bill? Heralds of Galactus are extremely inconsistent, they have planet busting feats even star busting ones and then they get manhandled by Iron Man. I wanna debate what Bill did here, not what Stardust and Terrax did in another comic. That has to be the weakest argument I have ever heard, not only is this referring to Stardust in general as a being that has in his life time survived black holes and planetary destructions, but also when the Nova corpse files talk about Bill and Stardust fight it never mentions any planetary destruction UNTIL the one when Astaroth was involved in the fight

No Caption Provided

An entire paragraph retelling the fight and no mention of Bill destroying a planet when fighting Stardust, only a planet being destroyed when Stardust bullrushed Asteroth into the core of one, so try again.

So yea way to pull this out of context.

This is highly ironic considering you are trying to twist the context of it.

Never argued that

So he isn't a casual planet buster despite if we go by your logic and that was indeed a planet he destroyed a whole planet while hitting someone else into it, that seems like a casual planet buster to me IF we say that was indeed a real planet.

It´s because you really want them to be building sized dude (wich is def not what was intended for this scene).

It's not what i want them to be, it's what they are, you desperately want them to be actual planets. How do you know what was intended for the scene? Can you read the writers mind? If we intended for it to be a planet Bill smashed maybe he would have instructed the artist to draw the proportions better or maybe he would have left a narration box saying so somewhere but he didn't.

Also i dunno why you are giving me that narration box? Skuttlebutt is Bills near equal? Did i argue otherwise or? Or are you still thinking it was Skuttlebut himself who blew up that planet and not the Voridian armory Bill took?

And i´m going to be perfectly honest: your argument is quite bad

HAHAHAHAHA, this made my day, thank you, after reading everything you wrote including not literally even knowing the comics you are arguing, this is priceless.

As you pointed out they are the "head" of this but by the angle the "tail" continue to grow indefinitel

..................................

And you actually had the balls to call my argument bad? Not only is this one of the most ludicrous reachings out there, not only is there literally no basis for this because the trial quite literally is never shown to expand that way nor would it be possible for it to expand indefinitely unless you think the trial they left took over the whole universe? lol

But that's not how trials left by people flying through space work.... they don't expand like that, here is an example of a trail left by Bill from the same story as he flies through laser fire

No Caption Provided

Notice how the trail behind him does not expand exponentially?

Here is a trail left from Stardust that remains consistently a single line that doesn't not expand exponentially lol, as a cone

No Caption Provided

Here is another example of Bill leaving a pink trail as he falls on Asgard, notice how it does not expand like a cone?

No Caption Provided

And here are a few examples with the hammer where once again the trail stays as a line and not a cone

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So where the hell did you come up with that ludicrous cone of energy i have no idea, why or how would they even leave such a cone just by flying through space is beyond me,

As you pointed out they are the "head" of this but by the angle the "tail" continue to grow indefinitely

No they do not grow at all, let alone indefinitely, the trail is at the same size through out and to use this image

No Caption Provided

Where Bill and Stardust are still very much visible in the upper panel and compare it to this

No Caption Provided

and say the green is where they are at and the red is the rest of the trail and the 2 pictures are comparable makes me think you are either blind, have no depth perception or are just reaching extremely hard because you know you have to since you don't have a point because this

No Caption Provided

looks NOTHING like this

No Caption Provided

and ofc perspective debunk your claim easily

You have to be trolling... you have to be... please tell me you are trolling right now... once again not only do trails not work the way you are saying, the 2 look nothing like the picture you drew and that's even ignoring the obvious depth perception that you haven't even accounted for which means objects that are farther appear smaller and those closer are larger and the end of the trial is closer to the POV we are looking from then the end point/the tip that Bill and Stardust are in. To put it as simple as possible for you

No Caption Provided

The green circle is the part of the trail that's closer to the "camera" and by that i mean us as we are viewing the panel, while the black circle is farther away from us, so it has nothing to do with a "cone" like shape that it leaves behind as there have been half a dozen trails left in the story by Bill, Asteroth, Stardust, Stormbreaker, etc... and NONE of them look like the ridiculous cone you drew.

and this is not even all of Bill´s planetary feats

I know it isn't, but there is a difference between having planetary feats and being a planet buster.

And just to prove my case there it is the problem recorently with celestial bodies we know or "fixed" sizes so you can´t argue about building sized earth or state/mountain sized jupiter

You debunk your own point here, as you mention these are all sizes of things we already know so there is no room for arguing because we know that is Earth and we know how big Earth is no matter how badly an artist draws it. Although some of the examples you used aren't that good tbh, for starts the reason the boat appeared as "big as earth" is because once again it's in the foreground, while Earth is in the background, on top of that there was some spatial shenanigans going on which altered the size of the Serpent and everyone there throughout the series

In fact i will just copy paste a post that debunked it years ago

However, what Thor did there , and what a number of people on the battle forums have passed it to be , is similar to the assertion that Superman is capable of blowing planets with his heat vision, or holding them in his hand , based on these scans , where he is in the New Gods world, interacting with the normal(mainstream DC) universe . Similar statements regarding the New Gods can be made as well , based on this scaling up phenomenon :

Gallery

Now , to begin with , the Serpent didn't encoil Earth in normal space , it went into the Void(notice its size in Asgard-space , nowhere near continent , country or even city wide) :

No Caption Provided

Again , here the Serpent is mentioned to be in its ethereal form , in the regular Earth-Space :

No Caption Provided

That's why , as Thor mentions here , he'll have to venture to Asgard to deal with the Serpent there , as it was crushing Earth in normal space :

No Caption Provided

Once there , Thor coerces Hamir the Giant to help him travel by the former's ship to the Void between Earth and Asgard and uses the Hamir's Bull as a bait to fish out the Serpent :

Gallery

Now that all concerned parties are in the Void , its made (painfully so for the Thorbags) clear that the Serpent is nowhere near continent sized(let alone of planetary proportions) . In fact its of normal monstrous proportions relative to even Thor himself :

Gallery

In fact it is essentially stated by the narrative here that in the Void , space and time don't operate normally :

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123075/2757859-voidsspacetimeunnatural.png

Within the context of Thor # 327(in which the above discussed feat takes place) , the Void(like the differently scaled New Gods Dimension that I showed as an analogical reference point in the beginning of my post) between Asgard-space and Earth-space doesn't follow the normal rules of space-time . Hence why despite being big enough to wrap up the whole planet within its coils while in the Void , the Midgard Serpent was still relatively small enough for Thor to use a mouth-fitting bull to fish it off from Earth . This is why the Serpent is , in proportion to Thor , roughly as big as what a Pleistocene era sea monster would be in comparison to a normal man .

this is like arguing that Earth is the size of house here as Monica is observing whats left of it

No Caption Provided

Despite that clearly the Earth is meant to be in the background while Monica is in the foreground.

So anyway we are not here arguing FIXED sizes of known planets like Earth or our Moon or our Sun, etc... we already know how big these things are, so any mistake or carelessness from the artist is ignored, the problem is we are debating a random celestial object with no fixed size, with no other comparison, with no narration even mentioning it to be a planet, etc...

So to argue that perfect scale is needed is both silly and unrealistic and it´s unecessary pedantry on feats that you don´t want to be

Nobody is asking for perfect scales, on the contrary you are arguing that this is a planet at least the size of a country/continent(your worlds) based on literally NOTHING, not even real life science would support your claim because it can be as small as a city, so were you pulled out that the "planet" that was destroyed is of that size i have no idea or that it's even a planet in the first place.

So at the end which is more believable that Bill and Stardust destroyed a celestial body that from all the panels looking at it doesn't appear to be much bigger than a building especially in a comic that already featured perfectly round celestial objects the size of cars.

Or that Bill destroyed a Earth sized or country/continent sized planet there, just because you want Bill to do that for fanboyish motivations.

Yea until better evidence is provided i am going with it being building size. Also you could have not turn this personal i know i called you out in the past for being a fake Hulk fan but we could have at least discussed this normally, but you chose a different path.

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@underfire47:

“ Also you could have not turn this personal i know i called you out in the past for being a fake Hulk fan but we could have at least discussed this normally, but you chose a different path.”

And here I was thinking we could debate in good faith.

You seem to be projecting quite a bit here. You were the one that said i was trolling, that my arguments are dumb or trying to discredit me trying to say i didn´t read the comic book.I don´t think we need to go down this road and apologize if i in some way shape or form i offended you or made it seem like it was personal. It is really not, I really debate what I think.

If you wanted to debate what we were debating before you just had to ask, I stand back everything that I said before as you know, my predictions did come to pass. I just don't want us going into another tangent and don´t think everybody there in the immortal hulk cared about our discussion. We could debate that in DMS, in a blog or even creating a thread but not on the public forum lol

About the topic , I did write a response showing your inconsticenses and mistakes. However and this proves i an´t trolling or debating in bad faith or i wouldn't tell you, i did ask oeming in what i think is his of tt account and he said it's a “very small planet” i asked for clarification but i doubt he will give it. I can send you in the DM if you want.

So while I doubt it´s simply building sized (Astaroth throws chucks from a planet that is at least big skyscraper sized and in proportion to bill seems way smaller than both) I assume it's more in your side of the argument than mine.

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Hal

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Harold Jordan