Hades (Saint Seiya) vs. Xeno Goku (DB Heroes)

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chasekilleen

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Conditions:

  • Both serious
  • No prep
  • Random encounter
  • Can use anything in their arsenals
  • No knowledge
  • Start from 20M away
  • Location starts in the wastelands

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Garobesthero1

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Can Hades stops infinite multiverse attacks?

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chasekilleen

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@garobesthero1: Dunno mate. I tagged other Saint Seiya fans and maybe they can answer your question. I haven't read Saint Seiya before

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Garobesthero1

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#5  Edited By Garobesthero1

@chasekilleen: Ok i haven't either just learned some of that Cronus guy who should win here

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CaoCao

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Don´t know what Xeno Goku can do to kill Hades. This guy use avatars in reality (Shun,Alone) to fight against his enemies. Let´s say Goku kill them, or erase the timelines, he still don´t have a way to kill the true form of a SS god, since they exist in different dimensions, beyond the comprehension of humans. The presence of Hades alone can kill you, but let´s say it doesn´t work against Xeno Goku, his presence alone is still powerful enough to shut the 6 senses down. (Not only Hades, every SS God can do that, while Gold Saints needs special abilities to do that).

Attacks against Hades are getting reflected, thanks to the divine reflection. As long you don´t have divine Ichor, you can´t bypass is. He also can create a barrier that makes the enemy weaker.

Btw. Can this version of Goku even resist atomic maniplation and destruction?

Can this version even breath in space. And no, it doesn´t matter if he is above the timelines, that doesn´t mean he is immune against the natural and physical laws, unless it is proven.

However, Goku better didn´t get hit by Hades his sword. If he get hit by that, he is really fucked.

That are just a hand of examples, i think someone like @drunkhc can it better explain.

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Myriad_Star

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I say this is a 50/50.

If Xeno Goku hits Hades, then Hades will die (unless it’s True Form Hades like @CaoCao showed).

However, if Hades hits him with his sword then Xeno Goku is dead.

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Ehnkr2Beboh

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Doesn't DBH have Infinite Universes or something? IIRC, Demgira was going to destroy all universes and a universe that views them as fiction, and Base Goku beat Demigra. Not sure on Saint Seiya, I've heard they are Universal or Multiversal or something like that and can atomize. Not sure about the details though. Could just be faulty scaling.

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WhirusuJX1278

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@caocao: Goku is immune to that. He resisted that against Demigra who did that.

That is a no limits fallacy.

Based on your analogy, you think Trunks can turn Goku into atoms?

Goku is faster than Hades. He won't touch him.

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CaoCao

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#10  Edited By CaoCao

@whirusujx1278 said:

@caocao: Goku is immune to that. He resisted that against Demigra who did that.

That is a no limits fallacy.

He is immune against what from this? What is here NLF? His atomic destruction?

Based on your analogy, you think Trunks can turn Goku into atoms?

No, because neither can Trunks manipulate, nor destroy atoms. There is a huge difference in the function and effect.

Another example to explain it better. Hyoga can freezer your body to a point, where the atoms stops to move. At this point the atoms are immobilized.

While Trunks uses Ki to destroy his enemy, he doesn´t aims on the atoms of his enemy. 6th sense user on the other hand can aim the atoms directly, which means it ignores durability. There is nothing that protect Goku, since his stats doesn´t help him here.

Goku is faster than Hades. He won't touch him.

Tbh, i don´t now how much faster Xeno Goku is, but DBS Goku isn´t even 1/4 as fast then Hades. When a term outclasses Dragonball by far is it speed. But ok, let´s say Hades can´t touch him since Xeno Goku is too fast, how can Goku kill Hades? Also i don´t see how Goku even with superior speed can make any trouble, since 7th sense users have precognition+Hades has his barrier, which makes Goku weaker. We also shouldn´t ignore the fact that the presence of a God shut your senses down. Even if Goku resist somehow, it only needs one hit with Hades his sword.

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WhirusuJX1278

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@caocao said:
@whirusujx1278 said:

@caocao: Goku is immune to that. He resisted that against Demigra who did that.

That is a no limits fallacy.

He is immune against what from this? What is here NLF? His atomic destruction?

Based on your analogy, you think Trunks can turn Goku into atoms?

No, because neither can Trunks manipulate, nor destroy atoms. There is a huge difference in the function and effect.

Another example to explain it better. Hyoga can freezer your body to a point, where the atoms stops to move. At this point the atoms are immobilized.

While Trunks uses Ki to destroy his enemy, he doesn´t aims on the atoms of his enemy. 6th sense user on the other hand can aim the atoms directly, which means it ignores durability. There is nothing that protect Goku, since his stats doesn´t help him here.

Goku is faster than Hades. He won't touch him.

Tbh, i don´t now how much faster Xeno Goku is, but DBS Goku isn´t even 1/4 as fast then Hades. When a term outclasses Dragonball by far is it speed. But ok, let´s say Hades can´t touch him since Xeno Goku is too fast, how can Goku kill Hades? Also i don´t see how Goku even with superior speed can make any trouble, since 7th sense users have precognition+Hades has his barrier, which makes Goku weaker. We also shouldn´t ignore the fact that the presence of a God shut your senses down. Even if Goku resist somehow, it only needs one hit with Hades his sword.

Hakai ignores conventional durability, as well as Goku, so he can also destroy your atoms. Yes, Trunks can reduce you and your atoms. Goku has Immeasurable Speed, Hades hasn't peformed a feat close to that. Goku speedbliztes and atomizes. What is Hades going to do when Goku can suck the life - force out of him? Goku also has precognition. What is your point? Goku resists Power Nullification and he can easily break out of it. Goku resists Law Manipulation, the Sixth Sense won't apply to him.

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JOVIOLMA

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#12  Edited By JOVIOLMA  Online

Hades stomps.

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WhirusuJX1278

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@joviolma said:

Hades stomps.

At least explain why.

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JOVIOLMA

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#14  Edited By JOVIOLMA  Online

@whirusujx1278: AFAIK, I don't need to explain why, but if you wanna a quick answer, I consider him superior, this thread will be locked regardless.

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WhirusuJX1278

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JOVIOLMA

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#16 JOVIOLMA  Online
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WhirusuJX1278

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@joviolma: I bet you don't even know any of hax Xeno Goku possess to one - shot Hades.

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JOVIOLMA

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#18 JOVIOLMA  Online

@whirusujx1278: I'm aware of some of his feats indeed based on what some users posted about the games, although I myself have my doubts as I was never in Japan and never played them to confirm something or to have any opinion towards this so I just believe on what seems reasonable and what they support with the scans most of the time. And yet, I still thinking the Hades would won regardless.

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DrunkHC

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Xeno has been tested and no defender can prove his arguments. There are no legitimate facts, only guesswork, so they even continue to ignore concrete facts.

Hakai for example, Beerus stated that it doesn't work on immortals this is written in the manga which is the main canon but DB fans continue to quote Hakai as a winning factor ...

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You can't be taken seriously if you debate this way

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WhirusuJX1278

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@drunkhc: It erases you on a conceptual level. So Zamasu has High Godly Regeneration. Hades does not have sort of Regeneration, so he is getting destroyed, and Regeneration Negation, which Xeno Goku possess, can bypass that too.

You are quite uneducated.

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SagaTheLegend

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Lol at this mismatch. Hades stomps.

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mevbi

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Hades takes this, Goku is haxless

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RikuYamaha

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This downplay for Hades is hilarious. Hades literally just appears and his aura kills goku.

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B3rnkastel

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Xeno Goku supporters and not having actual solid arguments,name a better duo. Hades curbs.

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WhirusuJX1278

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@mevbi said:

Hades takes this, Goku is haxless

You are ignorant like the others in the comment.

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mevbi

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@mevbi said:

Hades takes this, Goku is haxless

You are ignorant like the others in the comment.

Aren't you that guy in discord who got slapped by everyone in DB server?

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CaoCao

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@caocao said:
@whirusujx1278 said:

@caocao: Goku is immune to that. He resisted that against Demigra who did that.

That is a no limits fallacy.

He is immune against what from this? What is here NLF? His atomic destruction?

Based on your analogy, you think Trunks can turn Goku into atoms?

No, because neither can Trunks manipulate, nor destroy atoms. There is a huge difference in the function and effect.

Another example to explain it better. Hyoga can freezer your body to a point, where the atoms stops to move. At this point the atoms are immobilized.

While Trunks uses Ki to destroy his enemy, he doesn´t aims on the atoms of his enemy. 6th sense user on the other hand can aim the atoms directly, which means it ignores durability. There is nothing that protect Goku, since his stats doesn´t help him here.

Goku is faster than Hades. He won't touch him.

Tbh, i don´t now how much faster Xeno Goku is, but DBS Goku isn´t even 1/4 as fast then Hades. When a term outclasses Dragonball by far is it speed. But ok, let´s say Hades can´t touch him since Xeno Goku is too fast, how can Goku kill Hades? Also i don´t see how Goku even with superior speed can make any trouble, since 7th sense users have precognition+Hades has his barrier, which makes Goku weaker. We also shouldn´t ignore the fact that the presence of a God shut your senses down. Even if Goku resist somehow, it only needs one hit with Hades his sword.

Hakai ignores conventional durability, as well as Goku, so he can also destroy your atoms.

It doesn´t ignore conventional durability, since it doesn´t work against Goku or Freezer. They break free from it.

But yeah, Hakai is something that can destroy your atoms, but there is a difference between destroying and manipulating. The destruction in SS doesn´t happend, because the attack destroy you. It happens, because it stops the movement of your atoms. That is more a physical law that appeared in Saint Seiya.

Yes, Trunks can reduce you and your atoms.

Where he did that? Also that isn´t enough to kill someone like Hades.

Goku has Immeasurable Speed, Hades hasn't peformed a feat close to that.

Where has goku performed immeasurable speed? Probably, because he fight outside of the timelines? That only depends, if he doesn´t fight against Hades directly, since he doesn´t have infinite speed within the time. Otherwise that wouldn´t make sense.

Goku speedbliztes and atomizes.

Isn´t relevant, since Hades presence alone can kill weaken and kill him. Also atomize is not enough for someone that regenerate even if the avatar is erased from existence. Oh, another point: Goku didn´t fight against the real Hades. The guy in this picture above his just Hades, inside a body of a former Saint, called Andromeda Shun. Even if Goku destroy him, he can´t destroy the true body of Hades, which exist in a higher dimension. He can try to teleport to Elysium to fight Hades, but there are some problems. First, he doesn´t have one ability to destroy the process that Hades came back. Secondly, he can´t escape from Elysium, unless Goku has shown that he can teleport from worlds which aren´t connected to the world. Third. If Goku kills Hades someone, the worlds from Hades would collaps, which means Goku died with him.

What is Hades going to do when Goku can suck the life - force out of him?

Suck the life force of a god, that isn´t even bound by this concept? You can´t kill the death, you have to erase him on a conceptual level.

Goku also has precognition.

Where he has precognition?

What is your point? Goku resists Power Nullification and he can easily break out of it.

Goku resists Law Manipulation, the Sixth Sense won't apply to him.

Where he did?

@drunkhc: It erases you on a conceptual level.

It doesn´t. It failes against Zamasu, this guy could even regenerate which proves that it isn´t a conceptual erasure. You can´t regenerate that not exist anymore, since it is deleted from the world.

Also it has shown that it is limited to stats and Ki of the enemy, plus it was stated and proven even in the manga against Zamasu that it can´t kill Immortals.

So Zamasu has High Godly Regeneration.

He doesn´t have. He is bound by the concept of the space-time continuum. If the space-time continuum stops to exist, he is death. Zeno has shown this.

Hades does not have sort of Regeneration, so he is getting destroyed, and Regeneration Negation, which Xeno Goku possess, can bypass that too.

Eh? Hades has indeed that sort or regeneration, since he exist in a higher dimensional plane. First, you have to erase the body and soul of the avatar. (The soul too, because every 8th sense user can fight even without body) Secondly you have to erase the body and soul of the true body, and even then the gods just fall asleep. You have to erase this guy on a conceptual level, which no one in Dragonball has shown before.

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WhirusuJX1278

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It doesn´t ignore conventional durability, since it doesn´t work against Goku or Freezer. They break free from it.

But yeah, Hakai is something that can destroy your atoms, but there is a difference between destroying and manipulating. The destruction in SS doesn´t happend, because the attack destroy you. It happens, because it stops the movement of your atoms. That is more a physical law that appeared in Saint Seiya.

There is a contrast between immunity and resistance.

It erases your entire existence, ignoring any type of durability regardless. I don't see the actual difference between the two as they practically do the same thing.

Where he did that? Also that isn´t enough to kill someone like Hades.

Trunk's Spirit Sword, it can reduce you to atoms, and it ignores conventional durability.

Where has goku performed immeasurable speed? Probably, because he fight outside of the timelines? That only depends, if he doesn´t fight against Hades directly, since he doesn´t have infinite speed within the time. Otherwise that wouldn´t make sense.

Xeno Goku scales above characters who can move through past, present and future in timelines casually, he also scales above Demigra, who is beyond time and space.

Isn´t relevant, since Hades presence alone can kill weaken and kill him. Also atomize is not enough for someone that regenerate even if the avatar is erased from existence. Oh, another point: Goku didn´t fight against the real Hades. The guy in this picture above his just Hades, inside a body of a former Saint, called Andromeda Shun. Even if Goku destroy him, he can´t destroy the true body of Hades, which exist in a higher dimension. He can try to teleport to Elysium to fight Hades, but there are some problems. First, he doesn´t have one ability to destroy the process that Hades came back. Secondly, he can´t escape from Elysium, unless Goku has shown that he can teleport from worlds which aren´t connected to the world. Third. If Goku kills Hades someone, the worlds from Hades would collaps, which means Goku died with him.

> Goku resists Power Nullification, so that is useless.

> I didn't claim that it would be the way Goku kills Hades, I was just demonstrating to you that Goku can literally do the same to Hades.

> Unless Hades scales above Demigra, I don't see how any of those will affect Goku.

Suck the life force of a god, that isn´t even bound by this concept? You can´t kill the death, you have to erase him on a conceptual level.

Then i want you to prove that Hades resists Conceptual Manipulation

He doesn´t have. He is bound by the concept of the space-time continuum. If the space-time continuum stops to exist, he is death. Zeno has shown this.

You mean the timeline, not the space - time continuum as we saw Zamasu in Super bypassing the physical laws made in each space - time continuum? Zamasu resisted Zeno's erasure, so he has High Godly Regeneration.

Eh? Hades has indeed that sort or regeneration, since he exist in a higher dimensional plane. First, you have to erase the body and soul of the avatar. (The soul too, because every 8th sense user can fight even without body) Secondly you have to erase the body and soul of the true body, and even then the gods just fall asleep. You have to erase this guy on a conceptual level, which no one in Dragonball has shown before.

Hades has regeneration that destroys the soul, that is Mid Godly Regeneration. Beerus for example, bypasses that as he can erase your existence, so there you go? You have to prove that Hades exists in a reality that is higher than Goku's.

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WhirusuJX1278

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@mevbi said:
@whirusujx1278 said:
@mevbi said:

Hades takes this, Goku is haxless

You are ignorant like the others in the comment.

Aren't you that guy in discord who got slapped by everyone in DB server?

I don't know who you are, so I wouldn't know.

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CaoCao

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#30  Edited By CaoCao

@whirusujx1278 said:

There is a contrast between immunity and resistance.

It erases your entire existence, ignoring any type of durability regardless. I don't see the actual difference between the two as they practically do the same thing.

It doesn´t work against Zamasu in the Manga, since he could regenerate, so it isn´t a conceptual erasure attack. It lacks against Freezer and against Goku, which proves that it has shown limit. We have a statement from Beerus that it can´t kill immortals. Immortals < conceptual erasure.

Xeno Goku scales above characters who can move through past, present and future in timelines casually, he also scales above Demigra, who is beyond time and space.

And he can kill abstract beings?

> Goku resists Power Nullification, so that is useless.

Where did he resist power nullification?

> I didn't claim that it would be the way Goku kills Hades, I was just demonstrating to you that Goku can literally do the same to Hades.

Tbf, i don´t know Xeno Goku since i don´t read or watch DBH, so what i need is more information about him. Destoying Hades isn´t enough, as i said you have to erase him on a conceptual level.

> Unless Hades scales above Demigra, I don't see how any of those will affect Goku.

Why he should scale above Demigra? Demigra is above time and space, but is still bound by the concept of death. The same with Goku. Hades IS death, he is the god of the underworld and even more familiar with the concept of death, then Thanatos.

Then i want you to prove that Hades resists Conceptual Manipulation

I never said Hades can resist conceptual manipulation, i said:

Suck the life force of a god, that isn´t even bound by this concept? You can´t kill the death, you have to erase him on a conceptual level.

As the god of death only Hades his avatar is bound by the life force, but the god of death is, what he is. He is death. You can´t kill death, you have to erase him on a conceptual level, since he is a concept.

Also SS Gods have a better resistance against Existence Erasure then DB characters.

You mean the timeline, not the space - time continuum as we saw Zamasu in Super bypassing the physical laws made in each space - time continuum?

Zamasu resisted Zeno's erasure, so he has High Godly Regeneration.

Where resisted Zamasu Zeno his erasure? Also even this wouldn´t put him on high-godly regeneration:

High-Godly:The ability to regenerate after erasure from all aspects of existence, such as from history, narrative/plot, or conceptual/information destruction.


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MoneyyJunee

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#34  Edited By MoneyyJunee  Online

Lol, Hades stomps

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HukO

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#35  Edited By HukO

Hades stomps

One can easily identify DB tards

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WhirusuJX1278

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#36  Edited By WhirusuJX1278

It doesn´t work against Zamasu in the Manga, since he could regenerate, so it isn´t a conceptual erasure attack. It lacks against Freezer and against Goku, which proves that it has shown limit. We have a statement from Beerus that it can´t kill immortals. Immortals < conceptual erasure.

This can only be expressed through occum's razor - It would have erased zamasu, but he regenerated anyways as to why he has HIgh - Godly Regeneration. Goku and Frieza resisted it, but that does not mean they can regenerate from it nor are immune. As you can see, you are making interpretaions which have contradiction, for example you propose that since Zamasu is a Immortal and Beerus couldn't erase him, that pertains to Beerus not having Conceptual Erasure. The definition which you used contradicts what you said and supports me one way another regardless. Though you can regenerate from conceptual erasure, what are you talking about?

And he can kill abstract beings?

Why would Demigra being able or unable to kill abstract beings means matter?

Where did he resist power nullification?

He resisted Andriod 21's power nullfication waves.

Tbf, i don´t know Xeno Goku since i don´t read or watch DBH, so what i need is more information about him. Destoying Hades isn´t enough, as i said you have to erase him on a conceptual level.

Which is what I clarified to you, and as to why you shouldn't make such hasty assumptions without foundation to it.

Why he should scale above Demigra? Demigra is above time and space, but is still bound by the concept of death. The same with Goku. Hades IS death, he is the god of the underworld and even more familiar with the concept of death, then Thanatos.

Demigra exists on a higher plane of existence than Hades. Both him and Goku can wipe him out with the entire Multiverse.

As the god of death only Hades his avatar is bound by the life force, but the god of death is, what he is. He is death. You can´t kill death, you have to erase him on a conceptual level, since he is a concept.

Yes, which is why Goku drains his avatar to death, and thus why Goku wipes out his "true self" from existence.

Where resisted Zamasu Zeno his erasure? Also even this wouldn´t put him on high-godly regeneration:

Zamasu regenerated from a form of conceptual erasure and history wipage in XV2, as to why he gets High - Godly Regeneration.

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WhirusuJX1278

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@sagathelegend said:

Lol at this mismatch. Hades stomps.

I agree that this is a mismatch coz Goku oneshots!

I know right

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SagaTheLegend

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Fixed

@sagathelegend said:

Lol at this mismatch. Hades stomps.

I agree that this is a mismatch coz Hades oneshots!

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CaoCao

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#39  Edited By CaoCao

@whirusujx1278 said:

This can only be expressed through occum's razor - It would have erased zamasu, but he regenerated anyways as to why he has HIgh - Godly Regeneration.

As i posted before what High-Godly regeneration means, Zamasu is far away from that. Zamasu can´t regenerate after a conceptual erasure, that was showed, when Zeno erased him along the timeline. Someone with high-godly regeneration would give a shit about Zeno his conceptual erasure, since they don´t have to be bound by the concepts of time, life, death, etc.

Zamasu at this best can argued as low-godly regeneration based on the feats he has shown.

Goku and Frieza resisted it, but that does not mean they can regenerate from it nor are immune.

There is a difference: While Goku and Frieza aren´t immortal and doesn´t have regeneration, this version of Zamasu was. Of course they can´t regenerate, when Hakai erases them.

As you can see, you are making interpretaions which have contradiction, for example you propose that since Zamasu is a Immortal and Beerus couldn't erase him, that pertains to Beerus not having Conceptual Erasure.

Not really. The only contradiction is that we ignore the weaknesses of Hakai, which are even on panel+ Beerus confirmed it. Unless you have other statements and proof that it works against people with high-godly regeneration (Where you need at first the proof that someone of them is high-godly) neither Zamasu is high-godly in regeneration, nor Hakai is a conceptual existence erasure.

Also how doesn´t have Zeno Conceptual Erasure, when you say before that Hakai is conceptual erasure?

The definition which you used contradicts what you said and supports me one way another regardless.

Not really. We have feats for Hakai, we have feats against Zamasu, we have statements confirmed by Beerus.

Though you can regenerate from conceptual erasure, what are you talking about?

If you have high-godly regeneration, but as i said before we need proof that Zamasu is. He failed on the conept of time.

Why would Demigra being able or unable to kill abstract beings means matter?

Since Gods in Saint Seiya are first of all higherdimensional/abstract beings, while Demigra by his physics isn´t.

He resisted Andriod 21's power nullfication waves.

Ok?

If that doesn´t work he still has passive abilities like, shut down your senses and in the worst situation can his presence kill you.

Which is what I clarified to you, and as to why you shouldn't make such hasty assumptions without foundation to it.

Based on what? You didn´t post any scans in the debate, while i brought up them all the time. If you don´t want that i make hasty assumptions, then bring them. Of course i have no knowledge about DBH, but then you are the one who should bring up the points to show me that i am wrong.

Demigra exists on a higher plane of existence than Hades.

Can you show me where? If he is only above time and space that is not relevant, since i can argue for Hades that he can paint above the reality like a manga:

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No Caption Provided

Also that doesn´t stop the concept of death, unless you can show me that Demigra is unaffected by the concept of death. Higher plane of existence doesn´t mean you are not bound by the concepts. Above time is one thing, but there are far more concepts.

Both him and Goku can wipe him out with the entire Multiverse.

Hmm? Cronos said no.

Yes, which is why Goku drains his avatar to death, and thus why Goku wipes out his "true self" from existence.

Again, how will Goku wipe out his "true self"?

Zamasu regenerated from a form of conceptual erasure and history wipage in XV2, as to why he gets High - Godly Regeneration.

Ah, sorry you talked about the game version of Zamasu, not about DBS? Ok, at this point i have to be fair, since i only play XV1. Can you give me the scans or a video for that?

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mevbi

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#40  Edited By mevbi

Goku doesn't have an answer to Hades' hax, they may have comparable AP though

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ChaosReigns

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RikuYamaha

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RikuYamaha

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Killmonger101

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Yeah for once, Goku whoops a Saint Seiya Character.

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SagaTheLegend

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Lol.

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VarricPatermann

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@mevbi said:

Goku doesn't have an answer to Hades' hax, they may have comparable AP though

It is more like, Hades decide if Goku whether exist or not.