H2 Ichigo vs Nagato

@cocoussybreaker: if you don’t mind me asking, where did you get those colored scans from? I would prefer reading colored manga

@narutobleachfan: That's wrong. You can clearly see the mountains in comparison to the hole.

Then it just means that the forest is just that big. It clearly cleaved a hole big enough to fit big multiple mountains. The scan speaks for itself. You are just denying it now.

If the forest is still there then it means the forest is just that big. Bigger than multiple mountain when it comes to area and the hole is deeper than the mountains as well. It's clearly a mountain range level technique. It's pure downplay to say it's forest level.

Jesus Christ, I don't even know why I continue with this.

Yes, you see the comparisons of the mountains and the hole, your point? Are you saying a crater like that on flat land would be replicated on mountain ranges? Or no?

Just stop, it's not worth it. The excuse of "that means the forest was that big" will not work. I literally drew where the forest was, and it was small compared to the mountains. In fact here is yet another scan that you will probably deny.

That smoke was the Bijuudama Naruto fired, and that's the crater of Konoha. So no, that forest isn't "so big"

Your third paragraph is just a repeat and can be summed up in one sentence: "It looks like a mountain range attack, but it didn't even do any damage to a mountain, so that means the forest is big"

I'm not downplaying, you're highballing. Never judge an attack potency by a crater.

@narutobleachfan: lol. So you are now just denying.

"Never judge attack potency by the size of the hole" - lol

Did you even see how deep it was. We clearly have a panel that shows us the size of the chibaku tensei in comparison to the surroundings.

I remember you using anime scenes to prove your point while you completely ignore that even in the anime, the gravitational force plucks out a mountain with ease. It's gravity.

If it created a hole that big in the ground then it will also pluck the mountains as well because hole goes deep enough that you could fit multiple mountains in it.

The earth gets harder as you go down and it's just a lowball to say that it's not even forest level.

The scan where you posted the hidden leaf villages crater, you do realise that the village is actually multiple kilometres on diameter right. That distance is actually really big considering that the village dwarfs the forest of death which is 20 km in diameter.

You are also denying the direction that the ball of gravity was thrown in that panel. We don't know if it went up straight or further away cause we can't see.

It's clearly a multi mountain to mountain range level justu. You are just denying it now.

Yeah size might not show the attack potency but the depth does and considering both the depth and the size of the whole, yeah, it is easily a multi mountain level justu with that much gravitational force.

We all know who is the one who is denying the feats.

@narutobleachfan: So you basically mean that a Jutsu (mind you it's not a bomb, it's gravitational force from far away) that created a hole the size of mountain range with enough depth that you could fit multiple mountains in it and they won't even be visible, also, creates a big ball of compressed rock which is far bigger than mountains and plucks a mountain on screen in the anime, is not even forest level in your mind.

A jutsu which created a ball which could tank a BB in the initial stage of it's creation and the BB was same as the BB which rivalled the size of the forest of death (also the size of the blast was so much smaller than the CT and the CT wasn't even close to it's full size) and somehow the CT is not even forest level in your mind.

We can also see on panel that the hole extends further outward into the mountains while the right edge of the forest ends well before the right end of the hole and knowing that mountains immediately started after the edge of the forest, it's easy to understand that the CT plucked the mountains that were situated at the edge of the forest and you somehow say that the jutsu isn't even forest level.

And you say you are not lowballing. I am done with this. lol

Have a nice day.

@adi_frost:

lol. So you are now just denying.

Nope, you just make excuses. I already have shown you scan. You, on the other hand, is based on speculation.

"Never judge attack potency by the size of the hole" - lol

OK, tell me the diameter of that crater then.

We clearly have a panel that shows us the size of the chibaku tensei in comparison to the surroundings.

Yes, it shows that it couldn't destroy a forest, nor did it do harm to a mountain.

while you completely ignore that even in the anime, the gravitational force plucks out a mountain with ease. It's gravity.

When? Even in Edo Nagato, nothing plucked a mountain, even KCM Rasen Shuriken+Killer B Bijuudama+Yasaka Magatama didn't destroy its nearby mountain (and forest lol.)

Gallery

So keep highballing for me, OK?

If it created a hole that big in the ground then it will also pluck the mountains as well because hole goes deep enough that you could fit multiple mountains in it.

Absolutely wrong. First off you're completely ignoring volume. What CT did to a flat land will not be replicated to a mountain range.

The 50 Megaton Tsar Bomba lip radius is 6.35 kilometers squared (NUKEMAP). That already shows that it can fit a mountain in, yet nuclear bombs do not mountain bust.

The only posssible way to see CT is mountain level is if you dropped the meteor into a mountain range.

The earth gets harder as you go down and it's just a lowball to say that it's not even forest level.

You misunderstood me, CT is definitely city level if it drops, I'm pointing out the pure highball idea that it plucked mountains out when it didn't even destroy its own forest. Even when you still tried to keep the highball idea alive by saying "the forest is big!!" I still showed you a scan of how close the forest was to Konoha's crater. Stop saying I'm lowballing when literally all the scans are supporting me. It's pathetic and makes you look like a fanboy.

The scan where you posted the hidden leaf villages crater, you do realise that the village is actually multiple kilometres on diameter right.

Erm, yes. Did you even look at the scan though??? You clearly see the smoke of Naruto's Bijuudama, and it wasn't on the other side, it was still very close to that forest.

That distance is actually really big considering that the village dwarfs the forest of death which is 20 km in diameter.

OK first off, it doesn't dwarf it, it's just bigger than it. And other Naruto debaters here said it was 10 KM. I sense confusion in this group. And still, my scan clearly shows how close it is to Konoha's crater.

We don't know if it went up straight or further away cause we can't see.

So your argument will now be based on speculation?

It's clearly a multi mountain to mountain range level justu. You are just denying it now.

Where the hell is this proof?!?!?!? This is pitiful.

Yeah size might not show the attack potency but the depth does and considering both the depth and the size of the whole, yeah, it is easily a multi mountain level justu with that much gravitational force.

Too much wank detected. It's like you never learned Volume.

We all know who is the one who is denying the feats.

Yeah, you're a troll, time to flag.

that you could fit multiple mountains in it and they won't even be visible

Where is the proof?

You:

Am I close?

plucks a mountain on screen in the anime

When did that happen? If that's filler...oh boy you are in for a ride with Hellverse.

A jutsu which created a ball which could tank a BB in the initial stage of it's creation

It's pretty tough to beat a gravitational force, so that was expected.

it's easy to understand that the CT plucked the mountains that were situated at the edge of the forest

Then show me proof. This isn't hard.

And you say you are not lowballing. I am done with this. lol

Have a nice day.

This is just concession. Thanks for giving me a laugh though.

@unlimited1: Ok so Naruto and Sasuke vs Ichigo and Rukia?

@temporal_shift: If you want to use Sasuke I will use Ichibe, Rukia is not strong enough for that kind of fight.

@unlimited1: ok that's fine with me. I'll set it up later

@narutobleachfan said:

@adi_frost:The scans clearly show the forest still present and the mountain range still sitting calmly.

However, the reason why that crater looks big is that it's more in depth rather than it's diameter.

In the first scan you see CT starting going up into the clouds, and the second it stops in the clouds. Both scans have the forest still present, and the mountains to the side still present. Never did it once took a mountain, even the anime seems to agree with me.

Not saying Chibaku Tensei is useless here, just that it's pure wank to say it picked off a whole entire forest, let alone mountain ranges.

We prefer to use Mangaka scans here, not the anime.

@gear4god: The manga scans are also on my side.

@narutobleachfan:

?

@gear4god: Its funny , narutobleachfan denies on panel manga evidence which clearly shows the hole extending a lot further outwards into the mountains which were outside the forest meaning it plucked at least the first mountain that was there which was just adjacent to the forest.
Then he sites evidence from the anime yet purposefully ignores the part where the anime literally shows the chibaku tensei plucking a mountain on screen.
Both evidence prove that the chibaku tensei plucked the forest and the mountains that were adjacent to the forest because the edge of the hole went further outside the forest (a lot further than the edge of the forest) and from the previous scans we now that there were mountains situated on the direct edge of the forest thus proving that it did pluck mountains.
Anime on screen shows a mountain getting plucked and the manga implies it. Yet he says that the anime and manga agrees with him.

I already showed that it didn't destroy a forest nor any mountains.

@adi_frost: Be quiet troll, you claim it plucked a mountain yet you never showed it. And I showed you still that it didn't pluck a forest.

Stop denying evidence when you can't find any for your own.

I don't know how anyone with a functioning neocortex can assert that the Chibaku Tensei crater is smaller than a mountain. Even if there weren't any mountains in the direct vicinity, the AoE is definitely within the mountain/mountain range level:

@gear4god: definitely in aoe but the point is that the chibaku tensei crater clearly extends into the mountain range. To the parts where there were clear mountains before but are no longer there, all that exists is a huge pit.

The edge of the forest clearly ends like halfway of the hole while the rest of the half (or quarter) extends into the mountain range clearly implying that it plucked the mountains that were their on the edge of the forest. The scans speak for themselves. There is nothing to argue here.

Lol this is hilarious, even when I showed the scans of the forest not being big, and the fact how CT didn't destroy a forest, still people think it's mountain level, this is priceless.

Clear denial at its best folks.

Don’t some of you try to downplay mountains by saying they can be scaled to trees? Pretty sure the only reason these mountains aren’t being called hills right now is becuase it’s Naruto.

You clearly see Kurama’s size/Forest’s size relevant to that chikabu tensei and it’s clearly barely small mountain level in size.

Looks like a bunch of small hills that Ichgio and Aizen destroyed in their fight.

@kingogkings777: Pretty much.

TBH i like making Naruto highballers and trolls like Adi look dumb, so I searched up the smallest mountain range: It says that it's the Sutter Buttes.

The diameter of the Sutter Buttes is 10 miles long.

So by all means, either that feat STILL doesn't look impressive, destroying possibly the smallest "mountain range" in existence or it isn't a mountain range attack.

I'm still waiting for that screenshot of CT plucking a mountain.....

Ichigo stomps.

@iusemycajonas: Forests are pretty big, just so you know ;-)

The scan is there, the specific scan which shows (and that's how the scan is intended to be used as) the scale of the Chibaku Tensei. Ignoring scans (like always) won't work dude.

This can go either way. Ichigo has the physicals and raw power, but Nagato is smarter and has more techniques. I would probably back Ichigo due to him probably going for the kill right away before Nagato figures out he is outclassed physical and needs to seal him. Also the lack of knowledge and close starting distance gives Ichigo the advantage.

doesn't it take several seconds between the black orb from chibaku tensei getting released and the gravity turning on? I may be remembering it wrong I haven't read that fight in a long time

Ok, so I did a just-for-fun pixel calc on the Chibaku Tensei scan using the height of the clouds of 2 km (the hight of medium clouds...and the one people apparently like to use for the Kirin feat). Anyway, those are the result, take that as you will:

Ichigo, but chibaku tensei might work if Nagato uses it right off the bat. If not, h2 blitzes his head off

@ovy7: Good job, but some don't like cloud-height scaling. There are many times in fiction where clouds are not depicted properly.

According to Bleach fans, Seireitei is as large as a continent, but the clouds are depicted as follows:

Ichigo still blitz stomps.

@gear4god: Tnx!

Yeah, I can understand them. I've only went with cloud scaling because someone on here used cloud scaling for the Kirin calc (and he used the 2 km height too, for some reason), and I was curious about what results I'll get. Honestly, IMO this is way better than another calc I've seen. There, they used the size of a tree (pixel calced), then used that to get the size of a mountain from a different panel, then they used that mountain size to get the size of the CT crater. The results were 4.5 km for the mountain and 45 km for the crater, which sounds too much IMO.

About the Seireitei size, what makes it different from something like the CT or Konoha calcs, is that we got statements about its size, in the manga (the 10 day statement), in the novel (3 nights walk to get from one gate to the 7th Division barrack), and a movie on which Kubo help write and he referenced it in the manga (IIRC, the statement was like 200 miles in radius). I'm all in for Seireitei size using those statements, but IMO it's only the size of a large island/small-country, around 500 km in diameter, which actually works with all the statements we got.

Honestly, continent size Seireitei, or anything larger that small-country, is pure wank.

Edit: Also, the scans of Seireitei are inconsistent which each other. There's the famous scan where Seireitei is like 20 buildings long, and, funny enought, in the same chapter we got another panel which shows Seireitei being bigger lol.

Probably Nagato

Ichigo can't blitz Nagato though, H2 Ichigo is around mach 1000+ while Nagato is around mach 3000.

@rabii99: soooooo, where did you get that number from.

@gear4god: we could use the mountains instead. For the chibaku tensei, I'd give it a pass since it’s a close up and we can see the land masses very clearly. Less room for artist’s inconsistency

Ichigo

Lmao, it's not like Nagato knows the importance of breaking Ichigo's horn in a random encounter.

Ichigo stomps.