Guts vs Muzan and his Demon Moons

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Combatt

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Guts suspects a demon as an apostle and follows it to its base

Guts has Shierke who's only role is to keep Guts sane while wearing the Berserker Armor

Scenario 1: Guts encounters all the Demons one by one, from lowest number to Muzan.

Scenario 2: All the demons including Muzan gang up on Guts.

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Combatt

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Nothing?

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Spinnenhonig

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#3  Edited By Spinnenhonig

Honestly his chances aren't bad at all especially because he prolly doesn't need to cut their heads of to kill them because of Dragonslayers special properties. How far he goes is decided by the Berserkers Armor and if one does take the saying that it allows the wearer to keep fighting until all his Blood is spilled and all his Bones are broken at face value.

It's also important to remember that most feats we have for Muzan are from a poisoned and heavily aged Muzan with lowered regen.

I don't remember all Blood Demon Arts the 12 Kizuki had, but Schierke being here might help with hax they might encounter.

This all being said I think R1 Upper Moons 3, 2 and 1 would all take a majority against him, and he has no chance at beating Muzan. So stops after 9 kills most of the time.

R2 Guts gets annihilated and takes 2 maybe 3 Demons with him.

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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@combatt: guts blitzes, nobody on demon slayer is in his speed tier. Don't sleep on my boi guts.

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emperorthanos-

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#5  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

What can Guts do

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Bink_69

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#6 Bink_69  Online

I would say he can beat the lower - mid moons, but gets stomped by the upper moons and Muzan

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Spinnenhonig

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@combatt: guts blitzes, nobody on demon slayer is in his speed tier. Don't sleep on my boi guts.

Huh, really? I love Berserk but wasn't Guts in the Berserker Armor jumping at Grunbert at a transsonic level pretty impressive? And yeah was already FTE with Dragonslayer (good lord, how fast would he be with a regular sword at this point?) without the Berserker armor in the Black Swordsman Arc, aaand was capable of turning his head and barely dodging Rosine in the Lost Children Arc, but from what I know that is not at all impressive for speed by KnY standards. At least People were saying that, when I argued pro-Guts in a Guts vs Tanjiro battle.

Anyways happy to see Berserk threads.

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captain_inverse

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@emperorthanos-: guts has the strength advantage over any demon here.

without his armor, Guts' durability is better than any of the hashira. With the armor, he can fight 100% right up to his death. (Damage doesn't impair him)

Speed is tight, I'd say Guts is most comparative to ranks 1-3. (Faster than rank 3, slightly slower than rank 1)

His weapon should have no trouble killing, he MAY not even need to decapitate.

Fighting his way up to Muzan would be hard but the armor can physically carry him. Guts would overwhelm any of the demons who tried to match his blows by force, with rank 1 being the most comparable. (He is still stronger IMO)

Guts has no way of physically beating Muzan though, and no answer to muzans blood. And no way to get Muzan to the surface to out last him.

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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@spinnenhonig: yeah, guts actually ends up reacting to lightning in his base sooo.

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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@spinnenhonig: I can try to give you the scans if you want. Alot of people downplay guts

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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Spinnenhonig

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@itachisolosnodiff: aaah, the fight against Ganishka's avatar, almost forgot

I think it's debatable/was debated if Ganishka's Lightning is as fast as natural lightning, especially since Guts was able to stand up and stick dragonslayer in the boat to redirect the lightning that one time + Serpico also dodging, but if Ganishka's attacks are as fast as the real deal then yeah that does bump the speed feats up by quite a notch I think. How fast would one need to be to dodge lightning? As far as I know most of the fights in KnY are Hypersonic, with the top Tiers being massively Hypersonic (I'm just looking at what the people were saying in the Guts vs Tanjiro thread, speeds might be highballed). Would Mach 50-100 be fast enough to dodge Lightning (seeing how you do not need to be as fast as the thing you're dodging)? No matter who's faster in combat/movement, I think this feat might give Guts the edge in reaction speed (if it is as fast as real lightning)

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Mee09

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#15  Edited By Mee09

@itachisolosnodiff: He didn't dodge a real lightning bolt. If Guts was that fast then he wouldn't have had as much trouble with the bug girl (she clearly was not lightning speed) and many others as he did. One of his weak points is actually his speed when facing non-fodder monsters. He makes up for it with his strength.

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Bink_69

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#16 Bink_69  Online

@itachisolosnodiff: Well even though guts is a monster in terms of durability, and the berserker armor is op as hell, he has no way to bypass Muzan’s physical strength and Regen, not to mention his demon blood

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BNinja

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R1 Guts would get pretty far, but would stop at Douma. I don't think he has any answer for being frozen.

R2 He gets absolutely bodied.

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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@mee09: okay for one that girl is hypersonic in terms of speed and guts was wayyyyy weaker back then, he was also still able to react to her so.

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TheOneWhoKnocks

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Based on what I've seen from Akaza on CV I think he could take Guts with diffficulty

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Sy8000

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He can't beat any of them if he doesn't have Nichirin. Maybe Dragonslayer could affect them but I'm not sure how you could prove that.

If we assume he can kill them he should beat the Lower Moons. He can't beat any of the Upper Moons. They simply outstat him and have gimmicks he can't counter.

Round 2 is an unholy slaughter, lol.

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captain_inverse

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#21  Edited By captain_inverse

@sy8000: others have found ways to kill demons with poison. Safe to say Guts demon slaying sword should work fine.

What clear strength feats do the upper 6 have to put them above guts?

None of the hashira use explosives or crossbow guts has his own tricks

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Sy8000

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@sy8000: others have found ways to kill demons with poison. Safe to say Guts demon slaying sword should work fine.

Only wisteria poison has ever worked, and even it is incapable of killing the Upper Moons. I also have no idea what this has to do with Dragonslayer.

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Spinnenhonig

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#23  Edited By Spinnenhonig

@sy8000 said:
@captain_inverse said:

@sy8000: others have found ways to kill demons with poison. Safe to say Guts demon slaying sword should work fine.

Only wisteria poison has ever worked, and even it is incapable of killing the Upper Moons. I also have no idea what this has to do with Dragonslayer.

Dragonslayer has bathed in so much demonic blood, that it manifested special properties/ it does not only cut physical bodies anymore but also souls and spirits

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Sy8000

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Dragonslayer has bathed in so much demonic blood, that it manifested special properties/ it does not only cut physical bodies anymore but also souls and spirits

That's nice but I'm not sure what it has to do with poison. Demons survive without heads, I don't remember Dragonslayer doing anything to suggest it would null that level of physical healing.

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Spinnenhonig

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#25  Edited By Spinnenhonig
@sy8000 said:
@spinnenhonig said:

Dragonslayer has bathed in so much demonic blood, that it manifested special properties/ it does not only cut physical bodies anymore but also souls and spirits

That's nice but I'm not sure what it has to do with poison. Demons survive without heads, I don't remember Dragonslayer doing anything to suggest it would null that level of physical healing.

I think the assumption is that dragonslayer would destroy their souls when cutting them. Apostles are also very hard to kill (although it seems somewhat inconsistent, the snake apostle Guts kills early in the Black Swordsman Arc survived just as a head until tortured to death by Guts, while Wyald nearly died after getting heavily wounded by Guts and then really died after getting his stomach ripped open by Zodd) and Guts now has an easier time ending them, I think (although it's been a while since I've read Berserk so I don't remember if that is ever shown to be the case with Apostles, but Dragonslayers properties allowed Guts to hurt and kill beings from the nightmare world and Ganishka's Lightning Avatar)

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KingCrimson

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Guts wrecks the lower moons solely through his stat advantage. He’d start to struggle with the upper moons as that stat advantage begins to disappear. I’d say he should stop at Akaza. I can’t see that going in his favour, as I’m not even sure he could cut him, let alone overcome his healing.

He has less than no chance at R2.

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Combatt

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I thought it was established long ago that guts was aim-dodging

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TheVVitchKing

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He doesn’t have the speed hax or mobility to beat any of the upper moons

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deactivated-6060d1922bf05

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How are demons HS? Genuine question. read the manga, didn't see anything in particular to put them on that level.

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synchronized_123

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@kingcrimson: I don't think he wins against any of the Upper Moons except maybe 5. He'd be clueless on how to deal with UM6's gimmick. Same with UM4.

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ItachiSolosNoDiff

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@bink_69: I mean guts was able to lift 1 ton without a berserker armor amp