So, i noticed a big wave of newcomers in the vine that are looking forward to show off their knowledge on certain characters as well as improve their debating skills while challenging another viner.
I was reading through quite a few debates of these people nowadays and saw myself thinking in 7 out of 10 debates about the format and the way people develop in the debate. After noticing the obvious pattern in these debates, a question came to my mind... If there's a thread explaining what a CaV is, why there isn't a thread explaining how to make the CaV challenging in the first place?
So, the point of this thread is give those newcomers some kind of basic guidance to trace a new starting line in their debating skills which i thought would be well received in the vine.
In this stage, you'll find yourself posting in the "Challenge a Viner" thread, looking for a debate. You may find a challenger quite fast given the increasing population of knowledgeable people around. These are the points you need to take into account to make it a good CaV.
- Before starting to debate, make a quick research on the character you've been put against to. It's always better to have at least minor knowledge on your opponents character. It gives you more debatable field.
- You MUST be knowledgeable on the usage of the texting palette. That being said, organize your ideas, information and graphic proof. Make yourself READY to debate. This avoids prolonged debates which sometimes are forgotten and lose importance.
Following this points will make you able to start with the right foot always.
Starting the Debate
The CaV has begun and you're discussing with your challenger who is giving the opener.
Opening the Debate
If you both agreed you'll be starting the debate, so be it... These are the points you should follow in order to make a good opener.
- If your challenger doesn't know your character that much, post a short, very brief introduction about your character. You should include everything relevant to the debate. i.e Physical attributes, superhuman abilities and personality to avoid any interruption by ignorance in the debate.
- You MUST state a point that shows why your character beats his/her character. You shouldn't leave an opener as a mere description of your character.
On the countering side
Same as above, you both agreed your challenger will do the opener... That leaves you on the countering side, which i myself prefer to start always.
- Read VERY carefully your opponent's opener, this is KEY for the development of the debate.
- If your opponent does not know your character very well, do the same as him/her, post a short introduction about your character as well.
- Same as if opening the debate, you MUST state points that counters his/her points, hence the side you took.
When both of you already stated your points, this is when the debate turns interesting. It's all up to you to show and convince the people why your character wins. In this stage, a few factors are involved.
- Debating Skills: How good you defend/counter points.
- Reliable Proof: whether is citing or graphic proof.
- Knowledge: Proof that you actually know about your character. This also applies for knowing about your opponent's character.
In order to start tasting the win, you MUST show off at least 2 of these factors.
This is by far the hardest one to achieve. However, once you've got it, debating turns as easy as breathing. These skills are mainly based on how strong and valid your points are as well as how good you disable your opponent's points.
This has nothing to do with your character anymore, this is something you and you only can guarantee... These skills tend to vary between the people, however, these are probably the most common factors between the good debaters.
- Always pay close attention to details, you'll always find something useful in your opponent's argument that you can use against him/herself. There's no need to always come up with an argument yourself, which often ends in short debates leaving a very wide portion of debatable field.
- Use 1 instance to support multiple points. In other words... Don't waste your proof, you'll probably get overwhelmed by your opponent if this happens.
This is the most common between the people, given the fact there's a lot of "respect threads" and battle threads that often are full of scans of characters you may want to use in CaVs.
The term "Reliable" is KEY in this aspect... Showing proof is not always enough, you must show it's actually legit proof. This is often achieved by people citing as well as posting the scans of such cite, it just takes a quick google search to know if the instance is "canon" or not. Of course this may vary with the rules. i.e If both of you agree on using non-canon feats.
If people ask me, i would recommend people to focus on this one the most. Mainly because having knowledge makes achieving the other 2 aspects significantly easier.
Knowledge is self explanatory... It's to show people you actually know what you're talking about. Having knowledge also guarantees some of your points could be irrefutable due to the lack of knowledge by your opponent's side. As well as pretty much win the debate if continuously correcting your opponent. Largely underestimated yet pretty much the real deciding factor.
"Context" is another factor dependent on the amount of knowledge you posses. And that my friends, it's KEY to make your proof any useful. You shouldn't post scans without knowing the context behind it, i've made such mistake before, it's not cool when people constantly corrects you, true story.
Esthetics, even though they don't play a huge role, it's actually quite important.
By "Esthetics" im referring to formatting... The way you're going to post your comment. The way you're going to arrange your scans, organize your points and deliver you game breaking arguments.
This, in my humble opinion, its KEY to have a decent/good debate.
This is probably the most common factor between people and their formatting skills. Every single one of you viners want to post scans and show off how much you know about a character in a total graphic way. However, you MUST keep your argument as clean as possible since your almighty scans are NOT the things that will make you win, actually it's your text.
In this case, the texting palette comes into play, you MUST familiarize yourself with it, since it makes it easier for you to express without turning your post into a "wordsearch". Helping you, Helping others.
- First, if you want to post more than 1 scan of an instance that has several panels, it's strongly recommended to post it as a miniature series of scans which become bigger if you click on them, something like a graphic link.
- Second, if you want to post an instance with several panels but making emphasis in 1, you should post everything in the miniature series but the one you're trying to make emphasis on... Which would be centered and expanded in a large image. After this, you MUST put the big image in "Spoiler Block" (See in the bottom left corner of you texting palette)
- NO MEDIUM NOR SMALL SCANS... Personally, i think it's very tedious to look at small and medium scans. The abusive usage of large scans affects the esthetics of your post as well. If you want to make emphasis in some area of the scan without obstructing the way of your argument, there's always the "crop" feature, although its only applicable to already uploaded scans.
That being said, im going to re-take my previous points and tell you again. There's no need to post a lot of scans as long as you prove your point clearly. As a matter of fact, it's often better to cite the instances instead of posting several series of scans. This may turn into laziness by you or your opponent's side if any of you posts a huge quantity of scans. Keep it clean.
This is my most used option in the texting palette. Maybe because i do pay a lot of attention to details and because im some sort of nit-picky person.
Anyway, this option lets you quote what other people have said, in this case, your opponent. Im not talking about the option of quoting the whole comment, im talking about the option in your text palette. This is very useful when countering points given the fact it lets you quote your opponent by parts, paragraphs, even sentences and words which makes easier to write down good counters. As well as ignoring parts of irrelevant text your opponent may post. By both doing this, the number of irrelevances is reduced GREATLY, helping the debate stay as clear as possible.
With the quoting feature... You MUST try to avoid quoting your opponent's whole argument, try to use the quoting feature in the text palette instead of the other, which appears once you put the mouse pointer on top of other arguments. Again, Keep it clean.
This is not so popular, but still happens. Sometimes, people use characters that are mainly based on video games, and for that reason, they need to post videos as their graphic proof. As well as some Manga characters.
That being said, it's good for you to know, you can't abuse of the video posting feature, threads tend to collapse because of the quantity of videos posted in the same page. if you need to post several videos, post 2 or 3 and then give links as well as learn how to use 1 instance to represent multiple points. It would be gladly appreciated by the general population of the vine.
This stage is when both you and your opponent decide to end the debate and call people to vote.
Instead of calling for people that may vote for you because they are your friends. Call for people you admire and/or have respect for as a debater. They may take the time and read through your debate, to ultimately come with a very decent constructive critic overall. This is helpful for both you and your opponent, keep it in mind.
Hope this helps.
If anything could be added to this, feel free to reply to me. :)