GT R1: TTBA vs Jacthripper (VOTING)

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Jacthripper

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#1  Edited By Jacthripper

The Gear Tournament

In this tournament, you use mid level character team and gear them up with high tier weapons. There will be 4 characters per team, each stripped of their regular gear in exchange for their new toys. How your team employs the weapons is up to you. They will be given a month to master their new gear, so choose wisely.

@thetruebarryallen

The Formidable Four

  • Kid Omega // Quentin Quire
  • Mister Sinister
  • Mysterio
  • Superior Spider-Man // SpOck

Gear

High Tier [ 20 Points ]

  • Mirror Master's Equipment | Mysterio | 10 Points
  • Captain Cold's Cold Gun & 5 Cold Grenades | SpOck | 3 Points
  • Doctor Alchemy's Philosopher Stone | SpOck | 2 Points
  • 15 Medium Level Points | 5 Points

Medium Tier [ 15 Points + 15 Extra | 30 Points ]

  • Southern Cross Cane | Kid Omega | 2 Points
  • Weather Wizard's Wand | Mysterio | 5 Points
  • Phoenix Blade | Kid Omega | 3 Points
  • Ebony Blade | Mister Sinister | 3 Points
  • 24 Low Tier Points | 12 Points

Low Tier [ 10 Points + 24 Extra | 34 Points ]

  • Battle Computer | Kid Omega | 10 Points
  • 12 Talismans | 10 Points
  • 5 T-Spheres | 7 Points
  • Webshooters | SpOck | 2 Points
  • Black Panther's Gear | SpOck | 5 Points

Perks

  • Marvelous- If all your characters are Marvel, you get intelligence on your enemies 30 minutes before the battle, courtesy of SHIELD.
  • Intelligence Quota- If all members of your team are considered genius level, you get an hour of prep.

@jacthripper

Harbingers

  1. Darth Vader
  2. Ultimate Norman Osborn
  3. Greed (FMA)
  4. Harry Dresden

Gear

HT

  • Medusa Mask (8)
  • Red Lantern Ring (10)
  • 6 Medium Tier Points (2)

MT

  • The Staff of One (12)
  • Omnitrix with choice of 5 Aliens (5)
  • Oni Mask (3)
  • Ebony Blade (3)
  • 6 Low Tier

LT

  • Battle Computer (10)
  • Legion Flight Ring (2)
  • 1 Dose of Pym Particles (2)

Perks

  • Who are You?- If your characters are all from different universes, you get your characters morals off.
  • Rules on Characters
  • Low Superhuman Strength (30 ton limit)
  • Low Superhuman Speed (Mach 5 is the limit)
  • Energy Projection limits are at small building destroying
  • Telepathy is allowed, but the telepath can only affect one enemy at a time.
  • No time manipulation, matter manipulation, misdirection, other hax powers.
  • Intangibility is limited to 30 second use with 1 minute intervals between usage
  • No summoning more than 50 beings. No cloning
  • No power cloning, absorbing is ok, but no Amazo type abilities
  • All characters are in character, with their standard morals.
  • Your team starts with no gear, no implants, nothing. All equipment is bought in the shop.
  • No undead or unstoppable characters (Deadpool is ok as he can be KO'ed)

Your team gets one month to train with their new weapons, during this time they can do anything to prepare themselves, however they cannot spy on the other team during this time in any way, shape, or form.

Fight takes place on Oa, the Central Battery has been shut off to prevent GL's from recharging there.

No Caption Provided

Rules to Readers

  • Ask for tags, wish someone luck, but don't derail the thread
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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@jacthripper: Since I've got the prep, I'll go first; however, would you be able to assign your gear so I know who has what?

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Jacthripper

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@thetruebarryallen:

  • Darth Vader- Red Lantern Ring, Ebony Blade
  • Ultimate Green Goblin- Legion Flight Ring, Omnitrix w/ choice of 5 Aliens (I'll figure that out soon), Battle Computer
  • Greed- Oni Mask, 1 Dose of Pym Particles
  • Harry Dresden- Staff of One, Medusa Mask
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#5  Edited By TheTrueBarryAllen

Team TTBA | The Formidable Four

  • Kid Omega
  • Mister Sinister
  • Mysterio
  • Superior Spider Man // SpOck

Perks

  • Marvelous - If all your characters are Marvel, you get intelligence on your enemies 30 minutes before the battle, courtesy of SHIELD.
  • Intelligence Quota - If all members of your team are considered genius level, you get an hour of prep.

Team Introductions // Gear Overview

Kid Omega // The Telepath

Kid Omega is the mutant known as Quentin Quire - a once promising student at the Xavier Institution. His genius level intellect allowed him to become Xavier's prized student; however, after learning that he was adopted he took a downward spiral and began rebelling while also abusing a drug known as 'Kick' - which caused his brain to work overtime. Eventually Quire created a gang known as the Omega Gang and caused a Riot at the Xavier Institution during the Open House.

Currently - Kid Omega is the White King of the Hellfire Club.

Powers & Abilities

  • Telepathy - Quire is an Omega Level Telepath with incredible potential. Using Kick he can multiply his mutant abilities to even greater heights. It is also revealed during Phoenix Endsong that Quire could host the Phoenix.
  • Telekinesis - Quire has telekinetic abilities [ displayed during Endsong ] that allowed him to freeze everything & everyone in the X-Mansion as well as halt the bleeding from his wounds. He was also able to battle with the X-Men despite being inexperienced in combat at the time.
  • Genius Intellect - Quire has been said to think 10 million brilliant thoughts a second by Emma Frost, he was also Charles Xavier's most promising student before he began rebelling.
  • Psychic Constructs - Quire can materialize his psychic energy into psychic constructs similar to Psylocke.

Additional Gear

  • Phoenix Blade - The Phoenix Blade [ as it's name suggests ] contains a small fragment of the Phoenix Force. Normally the blade can only be lifted/used by members of the Rook'shir bloodline; however, that stipulation has been removed for the purposes of this tournament.
  • Southern Cross Cane - The Southern Cross Cane is a cane used by the character known as Southern Cross. Southern Cross has a limited telekinetic ability; however, with this cane he is able to drastically increase his abilities. Normally Southern Cross can only lift small objects weighing under 5 kilograms, but with the Cane he can simulate flight at incredibly high speeds, lift & throw cars, and stop hails of bullets in their tracks.
  • Battle Computer - The Battle Computer is a technological object used by the DC comics character known as Midnighter. The Battle Computer implants allow Midnighter to run through any given combat situation millions of times before a fight begins, thus allowing him to predict the moves that his foes will make before they've made them.
  • Rooster Talisman - The Rooster Talisman is one of the talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user a limited degree of telekinesis.

If there are any questions/concerns about Kid Omega and/or his gear - feel free to ask.

Mister Sinister // The Geneticist

Nathaniel Essex was a 19th Century scientist who was genetically mutated by Apocalypse. This transformed him into the immortal known as Mister Sinister, one of the most talented geneticists in the world. Mister Sinister has been a villain to the X-Men throughout his history and has used his interactions with them to study a wide variety of mutant powers & abilities.

Sinister's most recent exploits involved him tapping into the Dreaming Celestial and creating a perfect clone army of himself that resembled 19th Century England.

Powers & Abilities

  • Superhuman Physicality - Mister Sinister's genetic augmentations have increased his physical strength, speed, durability, and stamina.
  • Telepathy - Mister Sinister has a degree of telepathy that he can use to manipulate the minds of his foes.
  • Telekinesis/Energy Projection - Mister Sinister has the ability to project energy blasts through means of telekinesis.
  • Shape Shifting - Mister Sinister has total molecular control over his body and can adjust his molecules in any way he desires, thus making him an incredibly skilled shape shifter. His shape shifting makes it incredibly difficult to harm him via physical means.

Additional Gear

  • Ebony Blade - The mystical sword used by the Black Knight and forged by Merlin out of a meteorite. The sword was enchanted by Merlin thus making it virtually indestructible, able to cut through any material, and deflect/absorb/penetrate any energy fields or beams. The blade also grants the user immunity from death.
  • Ox Talisman - The Ox Talisman is one of the Talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user increased strength.
  • Sheep Talisman - The Sheep Talisman is one of the Talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user the ability of astral projection.
  • Tiger Talisman - The Tiger Talisman is one of the Talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user the ability to split their body into their Ying & Yang selves.

If there are any questions/concerns about Mister Sinister and/or his gear - feel free to ask.

Mysterio // The Illusionist

Mysterio is a super villain who normally comes face to face with Peter Parker, Spider-Man. After the death of the original Mysterio several others took the mantle; however, the original has since returned from death to continue his mission of thwarting Parker. Mysterio is an expert in designing illusions and special effects as well as being a master hypnotist and stage magician, he is also an amateur chemist.

Mysterio is one of the most frequent members of the Sinister Six - and has developed a gas that allows him to negate the Spider Sense of Spider-Man.

Powers & Abilities

Mysterio has no innate powers or abilities; however, he is an incredibly skilled and talented illusionist who has used this skill to combat Spider-Man numerous times.

Additional Gear

  • Mirror Master's Equipment - Mirror Master is a member of the Rogues, a group of villains that combat the Flash. With his equipment Mirror Master is able to replicate himself an infinite number of times, travel through any/all reflective surfaces, transmute his foes into glass, turn his foes inside out, BFR his foes into the Mirror World, and a variety of other bizarre effects.
  • Weather Wizard's Wand - Weather Wizard is a member of the Rogues, a group of villains that combat the Flash. With his wand Weather Wizard is able to create and control any/all forms of weather including massive storms, deadly tornadoes, and crippling heatwaves. The wand also grants Weather Wizard some degree of control over the Earth's magnetic field.
  • Dog Talisman - The Dog Talisman is one of the talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user functional immortality.
  • Horse Talisman - The Horse Talisman is one of the talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user an incredible healing factor.
  • Snake Talisman - The Snake Talisman is one of the talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user invisibility.
  • Rabbit Talisman - The Rabbit Talisman is one of the talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It grants the user super sonic speeds.
  • Rat Talisman - The Rat Talisman is one of the talismans from Jackie Chan Adventures. It allows the user to turn an inanimate object into an animate one with the powers/abilities/personality that the creator of the object had intended.

If there are any questions/concerns about Mysterio and/or his gear - feel free to ask.

Superior Spider-Man // The Physicist

The Superior Spider Man is the result of Doctor Octopus's mind being transferred into the body of Peter Parker, thus turning Spider Man into the Superior Spider Man. An incredibly skilled combatant and masterful engineer of a wide variety of equipment makes SpOck a truly terrifying foe.

I mean, there is a reason why he's the Superior Spider-Man, right? Right.

Powers & Abilities

  • Spider Man's Powers - Since the Superior Spider Man is just Doctor Octopus in Peter Parker's body, he had all of the enhancements and abilities of Spider Man himself, including his Spider Sense.

Additional Gear

  • Captain Cold's Cold Gun & 5 Cold Grenades - Captain Cold is the leader of the Rogues; a group of villains that fight the Flash. The Cold gun allows him to project a beam and/or field of absolute zero to stop his foes in their tracks by eliminating all particle motion. The Cold Grenades were also developed by Cold and had enough power so that a single grenade turned the entirety of Iron Heights Prison into an iceberg.
  • Doctor Alchemy's Philosopher's Stone - The Philosopher's Stone is an indestructible [ functionally ] and magical object used by the criminal known as Doctor Alchemy. It allows the user to transmute objects into other elements simply by willing it.
  • Black Panther's Gear - The standard gear of the Marvel hero, Black Panther. This includes a Vibranium Micro-weave mesh, Anti Metal Claws, Energy Daggers, an Energy Shield, Vibranium Boots, and Cloaking Technology.
  • Webshooters - Standard webshooters used and created by Peter Parker.
  • Dragon Talisman - The Dragon Talisman from Jackie Chan Adventures. This talisman grants the user pyrokinesis.
  • Pig Talisman - The Pig Talisman from Jackie Chan Adventures. This talisman grants the user optic blasts.
  • Monkey Talisman - The Monkey Talisman from Jackie Chan Adventures. This talisman grants the user the ability to shapeshift into any/all types of animals.

If there are any questions about the Superior Spider Man and/or his gear feel free to ask.

1 Month of Practice

None of the items that my team have been given will be too difficult for them to master in the month long period they've been given to practice/train with them.

Heck - I'd even bet that Mysterio would be more efficient with the Mirror Master equipment than Mirror Master himself given his background as a master of illusion and hypnotism.

1 Hour of Prep

Prep isn't as vital against your team as some of the other teams in this tournament - but it'll help me sweep the floor pretty quickly, so here's what'll happen:

  • Mysterio uses Mirror Master's equipment to make as many hard light duplicates of himself as he possibly can. Mirror Master was able to fill Central City with duplicates in a matter of seconds, given the fact that Mysterio has an entire hour to replicate himself the battlefield will be flooded in Mysterio replicas.
  • Kid Omega creates a telepathic link with the team - they'll use this link to communicate with one another.
  • SpOck uses the Philosophers Stone to transmute as much of the battlefield into reflective glass as he can; however, Oa already looks rather reflective.
  • The real Mysterio then uses Weather Wizards Wand to create an incredibly thick fog across the battlefield.

This will go on for about 30 minutes - at which point we'll be informed on who we're fighting by S.H.I.E.L.D.

I'm currently unsure if we get information on their gear or not - perhaps you can answer that question for me since you're the host of this tournament.

Anyways - that'll begin the next portion of my prep:

  • Kid Omega will use the information on your team to make the most of the Battle Computer - having it analyze any & every battle possibility in this fight.
  • Kid Omega will share these possibilities via telepathic link; thus my team also knows what moves you'll be making throughout the fight.
  • Kid Omega will access the fragment of the Phoenix Force within the Phoenix Blade to further augment his telepathic & telekinetic abilities.
  • SpOck will create a field of absolute zero around my team with the Cold Gun.
  • Mysterio & SpOck will use their Snake Talisman & BP Gear [ respectively ] to go invisible.
  • Mysterio & SpOck will prepare to enter the Mirror World as the fight begins.

So there we have it - we know every more you can make before you're going to make it, the entire battlefield is covered in a thick fog thanks to Mysterio, my team is protected by a field of absolute zero to prevent any speed blitz, and SpOck & Mysterio are ready to enter the Mirror World right when the fight begins.

Oh - I also forgot to mention that I have 5 T Spheres. Everyone on my team will be wearing a T Mask to make them invisible to technology & SpOck will keep another one with him in case he needs it for practical purposes inside or outside of combat.

If you need scans of the items I'm using to prove they can do what I say they're doing then feel free to ask.

The Battle

Alright - time to get into the fun part, let's examine your team & explain my plots to kill them one by one.

  • Darth Vader
  • Ultimate Green Goblin
  • Greed
  • Harry Dresden

Defeating Greed

Greed from FMA has absolutely no telepathic resistance to my knowledge; however, I've got two incredibly skilled telepaths on my team - one of which is being augmented by a fragment of the Phoenix Force.

I see Greed suffering the same fate that Wolverine suffered at the hands of Kid Omega: Mind Scramble.

Now that Greed's just a drooling mess on the floor he won't be an issue - if you don't think that'll cause him to be out of the fight entirely then Mirror Master can poke his hand out of a nearby reflective surface and blast him with Mirror Masters gun to transmute him to glass & then shatter him.

One down - three to go.

Defeating Harry Dresden

Harry is wearing the Medusa Mask - an incredibly powerful artifact, and also has the Staff of One by his side thus granting him an array of magical abilities.

Unfortunately I don't think Harry has any telepathic resistance either & what happened to Greed can happen to him.

If you prove to me that Dresden can resist a telepathic attack of that nature then Mysterio will use his equipment to make a plethora of duplicates within the eyes of Dresden - thus blinding him.

SpOck will then pop out of one of his eyes [ horray transportation through ALL reflective surfaces ] and use the Philosopher's Stone to transmute him into sugar.

Poor ol' Dresden didn't stand a chance.

Defeating Darth Vader

Vader has more resistance to telepathy than the rest of his team - but I don't know if he's immune to it even with the Red Lantern Ring [ have RL rings shown immunity to TP ] but regardless I'll come up with a plan for bringing him down.

Darth's cybernetics and armor make him a bit polished & reflective - perfect for Mysterio & SpOck.

Both Mysterio & SpOck are invisible & in another dimension [ Mirror World ] so Darth shouldn't be able to sense them, and once they both come into the real world SpOck will use the Cold Gun to freeze Vader solid - then he'll give em' a swift punch with the ol' Spider Strength to shatter him into thousands of pieces.

Mysterio will be busy removing the Ebony Blade from Vader's shattered hands via strong winds created by the Weather Wand.

Defeating Ultimate Green Goblin

Once again - Kid Omega's telepathy, transmutation from either SpOck OR Mysterio, or even a lovely tornado in the stomach thanks to Mysterio.

You also can't use the Battle Computer to predict our movements/plans because we've got the T Masks thus making us invisible to technology.

Conclusions

I'll sum this up with some bullet points:

  • Your team lacks TP resistance - baseline Kid Omega could take most of them out by himself, even with him only being allowed to impact one of them at a time due to the rules. Given that Kid Omega is even more powerful due to the blade he's using your team got pretty much mind scrambled.
  • You've got no way of tracking SpOck or Mysterio due to their invisibility & Mirror World transportation.
  • You've got no way to resist the transmutation effects of the Philosophers Stone OR the Mirror Gun that Mysterio is using.
  • You've got no way to resist a storm being planted in your stomachs by the Weather Wand.

Your gear is pretty great - but it was a really bad matchup getting put against my team due to our incredible versatility and knowledge of your team due to our Marvelous Perk and the Battle Computer.

I'm interested in seeing what your counter to this is - and hope for an interesting matchup!

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Jacthripper

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#7  Edited By Jacthripper

@thetruebarryallen: It's time to educate you my good sir, on the power of my team.

Harbingers

  1. Darth Vader
  2. Ultimate Norman Osborn
  3. Greed (FMA)
  4. Harry Dresden

Darth Vader, the Sith

Meet the Man on my team who could most likely solo. The Dark Lord of the Sith, today has been equipped with gear best suited to him. The Ebony Blade to compliment his skilled bladesmanship, and the Red Lantern Ring, a tool that is fueled by rage. Vader is considered one of the best swordsmen in the galaxy, surpassed by few. His rage is almost legendary, his hatred of the Jedi, the Rebel Alliance, and most of all, himself.

Well then
Well then

Even without his gear, Vader is monstrously powerful in the force

No Caption Provided
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So yeah, he can toss any of your teammates around as he wishes

As to the rings capabilities, it allows the creation of all types of constructs, including telepathy-proof helmets for my whole team.

No Caption Provided

All Lanterns can create the same types of constructs so this should apply, and considering it deals with J'onn J'ohnnz TP it can deal with Kid Omegas.

Another handy thing about the Lantern Rings, is that they give you protection against matter manipulation, so that nice little mirror gun and alchemy stone won't be much good. It deals with the depths of space, so cold isn't an issue either. It even protects against atmospheric conditions, so you can't create a tornado in Vader's belly.

The Ebony Blade, as you kindly pointed out, makes you unkillable, except for when you are hurt by another Ebony weapon, and considering the Sinister has no swordsmanship feats, he'll be in trouble when Vader slices him in half, or just throws him into space with a giant construct, or make him drop the sword and choke him out. Hell, he can do this to most of your team. I'll be interested in how you deal with him.

Ultimate Green Goblin, the Monster

In all seriousness, Norman Osborn of 1610 is one of the sickest SoB's I've ever seen, he also packs relative immortality as far as we know.

Here he's going to be used mainly for the user of the Omnitrix with these 5 aliens mixed with his battle computer, oh yeah, and he can fly now too.

  • Chromastone
  • Diamondhead
  • Swampfire
  • Big Chill
  • Echo Echo

I'll have him start by turning into Echo Echo (a silicon based lifeform) and duplicating to the limit, 50. If one goes down, a new one will appear. They will scream, shattering anything that's even slightly reflective in a small radius so you can't really sneak up on me. Then he will turn to Swampfire and make a versatile jungle of alien plant life, that shoots down any chances of Mysterio getting through (short of coming out of Vader's armor into his nice highly corrosive energy field). From there he will turn to Big Chill and wait.

Greed, the Demon

Greed is a homunculus, capable of turning his body into an "ultimate shield" that changes all the carbon in his skin to the consistency of diamond. Here, he is wearing a shadowkhan summoning mask, most specifically the Samurai Shadowkhan

Samurai

These Shadowkhan look as if they are encased in Samurai armor. This makes them quite durable and hard to defeat. They also wield shadow swords that can cut through anything. They are summoned by the mask of Ikazuki, it is stated that they are the most powerful of the shadowkhan.

No Caption Provided

He will also have 1 dose of pym particles which I'll be using for this

Size Addition: Pym also discovered Pym Particles which interacted with his brain to enable him to grow to gigantic height as Giant-Man and Goliath. The growth process required the rapid acquisition of bodily mass, presumably from an extradimensional source. This extradimensional mass fortified all of his cellular tissue, including his bones and muscles, enabling him to support his increased weight, and giving him superhuman strength. Early in his career this caused health problems due to the strain, and he was subject to various limitations on his size and the duration of his transformations (described under History.) He is currently capable of growing hundreds of feet tall exceeding the heights of even the tallest buildings in New York. He can grow past the barriers of the "Microverse" to enter Overspace, a point above and apart from all other realities where it is possible to confer with abstract cosmic entities.

While I won't be going to Overspace with it, 60-100 feet tall should suffice. So you'll be dealing with a very large, shadow demon summoning, relatively indestructible Demon.

Harry Dresden, the Wizard

Unlike Mysterio, Dresden is no mere illusionist, he is a full on Wizrd, the Winter Knight, and an all around bad@ss. He's capable of tossing out spells like these.

aparturumopens a way to the NeverneverDF03c02
apparesummons demonsDF03c23
aquilevatuscreates a curtain of waterDF11c36
arctisfreezing/iceDF12c32
bemanifested a body from a ghostly stateDF13c47
assantiusErupts with kinetic forceDF03c17
defendariusproduces a sphere shaped shield of blue energyDF13c22
disperdoriusdisperses, fractures dangerous energyDF02c21
dispertiuscreates a crack/hole in the groundDF12c12

dormius, dorme

used to put someone into a dreamless sleepDF03c19
duo et unum

tracking spell

DF03c16
feniculus sonituseavesdropping spellDF11c32
flickum bicussmall fires -- lighting candles, and other small scale firesfrequently
flammamurussuper-heats the ground below, and causes magma to burst forth from the groundDF09c40
fortiusFortified Harry with renewed strength and energy when touching silver buckle

DF06c17

forzarecreates a push of forcefrequently
fuegodestructive fire attackfrequently
fulminos/fulminasgenerates or redirects a bolt of lightning

DF11ch25, DF11ch44

galviniusused with copper chain focus as a kind of taserDF10c13
geodascreates a sinkholeDF11c36
gravitusconcentrates gravityIt's My Birthday, Too
hexusa minor damaging of electrical equipmentDF08c21, DF10c25, DF11c22
ignus, infusiarus

Ignites a small floating ball of flame like a tiny sun

DF10c24
illumina magnushighlighted a message written in magic-tainted water by sending copper filings to attach to itDF09c01
infriga; infriga forzaresucks fire/heat away from a given area, creating iceDF12c45
interessari, interressariumtracking spell, with blood and a compassDF02c05
laqueuscord of pure force with soulfire, glitters and flashes: a supernatural garoteDF11ch44
lumen, camerus, factumcreates a holomantic illusion of anybody; illusions are mostly opaqueDF12c35
lupus, lupara, luperosowith the wolf belt, transforms self into a HexenwolfDF02c32
malivasodestroys a piece of technologyDF02c28
memoratum, defendre memorariusa memory charm for defenseDF04c19
noctus ex illuminusillusionsHeorot
obscurataveilDF14c47
pulitascleaning spell using a piece of straw from the broom, creates sweeping broomsDF01c26
pyrofuegolarger destructive fire attack; dense bar of blue-white fire, so dense almost solid like a spear

DF03c30

DF10c44

reperios, invenioschant used in tracking spellDF09c14
resarciusseals holes in the groundDF12c12
rexus munduscreates a ship-attacking iceberg in the waterDF14c45
riflettumcreates a general shieldDF03c21
segui votro testatumtracking spell, combining an element of the trackee with an element of the caster's senseDF01c16
solvosdestroys a wardDF09c10
stregallum finitasdismisses the sending of another casterDF01c14
tornariusreflects the momentum of another back to itDF02c17
ubriacha, ubrius, ubriumlinks a voodoo doll, as it were, to its intended real-life counterpartDF02c19
veni chea sort of wind-based levitationDF01c25
venteferroused to manipulate metal magneticallyDF03c30
ventas cycliscreates a cyclone of winds that can pick up objects hurling them at opponentsDF08c37
ventas fulminofunnels lightning through the caster to a target

DF01c14

DF04c32

ventas reductassmall scale wind, like an electric blow-dryer

DF10c04

DF13c12

ventas/vento servitasgenerates windfrequently
ventas veloche, ubrium, ubriumtransforms blood (liquid?) into fogDF02c13
vento giostrusgenerates a miniature cycloneDF02c15
vento riflittumreflects a projectile attackDF01c13
voce, voco, vociusallows long distance communication when used with a special obsidian stone and a circle

If needs be I can provide times he's used those.

Of course he also has the Medusa Mask (New 52), which unlike it's predecessor, actually drains you of psychic energy.

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I'll go more into that later, but it pretty much screws QQ over.

He also possesses the Staff of One, a powerful tool activated by the drawing of blood, and only limited by pain, which Harry has had more than his fair share of, considering that he has died and come back, had the flesh seared off his arms, etc.

I'll save those for later

For now, fear my team, because it has a pretty hard counter for yours.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@jacthripper: @thetruebarryallen: Interested to see how this turns out.

Same here - I'll have my post up tomorrow, Jac. Been a bit busy lately & just found out yesterday that my parents had to put down the Dog I've had for 10 years.

Apologies for the delay.

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Alright - it's been awhile since I've had time to post a response, sorry about that. You've got quite a team, @jacthripper, but I'm still under the firm belief that I've got this match in the bag.

Counters // Rebuttals

You've brought up a few points that my team will have to counter in order for my initial strategy to succeed, so I'll address those.

1. Darth Vader

Lets see what you've got your dark lord doing in this scenario.

Meet the Man on my team who could most likely solo. The Dark Lord of the Sith, today has been equipped with gear best suited to him. The Ebony Blade to compliment his skilled bladesmanship, and the Red Lantern Ring, a tool that is fueled by rage. Vader is considered one of the best swordsmen in the galaxy, surpassed by few. His rage is almost legendary, his hatred of the Jedi, the Rebel Alliance, and most of all, himself.

While that's a fantastic little bio you've created the only possible way for Vader to solo is if I dropped out of this tournament. Vader can't hope to solo in this tournament, heck, I don't think Vader can hope to do much of anything given the fact that his equipment & abilities are poor counters for my own devices.

Another handy thing about the Lantern Rings, is that they give you protection against matter manipulation, so that nice little mirror gun and alchemy stone won't be much good. It deals with the depths of space, so cold isn't an issue either. It even protects against atmospheric conditions, so you can't create a tornado in Vader's belly.

You're correct about the matter manipulation - but you're wrong about the Cold Gun and the Weather Wand.

  1. Space isn't as cold as the temperatures that the Cold Gun spit out - absolute zero prevents any & all molecular motion from happen, which is why Flash can't move through the field & it allows Snart to actually stand a chance against someone who can move FTL.
  2. The ring might protect the external of the user from atmospheric conditions, but I've never seen the rings prevent internal effects from impacting the person wearing the ring.

Its still entirely possible for Mysterio to plant a storm in Vader's stomach & for SpOck to flash freeze Vader via Cold Gun.

The Ebony Blade, as you kindly pointed out, makes you unkillable, except for when you are hurt by another Ebony weapon, and considering the Sinister has no swordsmanship feats, he'll be in trouble when Vader slices him in half, or just throws him into space with a giant construct, or make him drop the sword and choke him out. Hell, he can do this to most of your team. I'll be interested in how you deal with him.

While the Ebony blade grants functional immortality & a high powered healing factor, it doesn't prevent pain nor does it prevent damage from being done. It's also incredibly easy to disarm Vader in this scenario - especially via Mirror World BFR.

Vader is FAR from solo'ing in this scenario.

2. Ultimate Green Goblin

With the Vader hype brought down a couple pegs, it's time to do the same to GG.

I'll have him start by turning into Echo Echo (a silicon based lifeform) and duplicating to the limit, 50. If one goes down, a new one will appear. They will scream, shattering anything that's even slightly reflective in a small radius so you can't really sneak up on me. Then he will turn to Swampfire and make a versatile jungle of alien plant life, that shoots down any chances of Mysterio getting through (short of coming out of Vader's armor into his nice highly corrosive energy field). From there he will turn to Big Chill and wait.

Here's where I've got a problem with your plan & how you're using your knowledge.

  1. Your team knows nothing of Mysterio's abilities with the Mirror Master equipment. Your Battle Computer doesn't work because my team is immune to technology via the T-Masks that they put on during the prep. So you're completely blind on what my team is capable of.
  2. Why would GG just randomly decide to bust all of the reflective surfaces in the nearby area - he doesn't know that my team is capable of moving through them thanks to Mysterio - he's entirely in the dark about my team, my equipment, and my plan.

So I don't see any logical reason for him to shatter the reflective surfaces - the Jungle & Big Chill makes sense, but the reflective surfaces should still be in play.

If you can prove that GG would have a reason for destroying all of the reflective surfaces of this entire battleground then I'd like to inform you that the Mirror Master equipment would allow Mysterio to travel through the eyes of your team - eyes are reflective.

Scans are from Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge in case you were wondering.

3. Greed

Greed poses no threat to my team in any way/shape/form. He has no resistances to BFR, Transmutation, or Flash Freeze via Cold Gun.

While I won't be going to Overspace with it, 60-100 feet tall should suffice. So you'll be dealing with a very large, shadow demon summoning, relatively indestructible Demon.

You just made Greed a much larger target to be transmuted & frozen, thanks for the help on that one.

4. Harry Dresden

Harry is the one person on your team I've never actually seen anything about - so this'll be interesting.

Unlike Mysterio, Dresden is no mere illusionist, he is a full on Wizrd, the Winter Knight, and an all around bad@ss. He's capable of tossing out spells like these.

How dare you insult the man who brings the majority of your team to their demise, those spells are cool but you'll have to apply them to this battle & explain how they'd actually help Harry out for me to be more concerned.

Of course he also has the Medusa Mask (New 52), which unlike it's predecessor, actually drains you of psychic energy.

Ah, cool. What's the most powerful psychic user the Mask has been used on - is there a limit to how much energy is can absorb? I say this because Clark isn't a telepath in any way/shape/form nor is he a TK user so his defense for such an attack isn't really all that great.

Regardless - it doesn't protect Harry form transmutation or flash freeze or BFR.

He also possesses the Staff of One, a powerful tool activated by the drawing of blood, and only limited by pain, which Harry has had more than his fair share of, considering that he has died and come back, had the flesh seared off his arms, etc.

He won't have time to use it - but it's cool.

The Battle

Alright - I'm going to bullet point this because it'll be a lot easier for everyone to read.

  • Your team isn't immune to technology, thus the Battle Computer is actually able to predict all your movements accurately, thus allowing my team to know everything you're going to do before you do it - and we've got all the counters we need to prevent you from doing anything productive throughout this entire battle.
  • The reflective surfaces are still in play for this because Norman has no reason to destroy them at the start of the match.
  • Vader will be the first target now since he's providing the telepathic defenses - since the Battle Computer knows he's capable of doing this my team will prepare to take him down first. Mysterio is invisible & can move through reflective surfaces, all he needs to do is put his invisible hand out of one while holding the wand & plant a storm in Vader's stomach. He isn't immune to internal attacks of that sort to my knowledge [ maybe you can prove this ] thus it'll cause him to explode into a plethora of little bits.
  • To prevent Vader from regenerating the Ebony Blade will be brought into the Mirror World by one the Mysterio duplicates, thus Vader is down for the count.
  • Harry will become the next target for assault due to his Medusa Mask - thankfully he also isn't immune to storms in stomachs, nor is he immune to absolute zero or transmutation. SpOck or Mysterio could transmute him or freeze him or just blast him to bits [ via WW wand ] to prevent the mask from being used to eat QQ's psychic energy.
  • Quire then mindrapes the rest of your team due to their lack of telepathic defenses - or they get brought down the same way everyone else did.

Conclusions

  • Battle computer grants my team knowledge of everything you'll do before you do it. QQ's psychic link with my team allows them to also gain this knowledge.
  • Nobody on your team is immune to Absolute Zero or Storms in stomachs.
  • Once Vader & Harry get brought down nobody on your team is immune to telepathy or mental assaults.
  • Only Vader is immune to transmutation/matter manipulation
  • Nobody on your team is immune to BFR.
  • Nobody on your team is immune to being blinded via Mysterio/Mirror Master combo.
  • Mysterio is invisible, can move through reflective surfaces, duplicate himself a near infinite number of times, create storms in stomachs or any other weather condition, and transmute your team - he can dang near solo your entire team without you ever knowing he was there in the first place.

So goodluck, Jac. I'm going to need to see some serious counters here to gain any ounce of faith that your team could pull this off.

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cosmicallyaware1

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very nice here. Tag for voting when the time comes if you will please

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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very nice here. Tag for voting when the time comes if you will please

Of course, buddy!

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#14  Edited By Jacthripper


Here We GOOOOO!!!!!

Back at Ya

You've brought up a few points that my team will have to counter in order for my initial strategy to succeed, so I'll address those.

1. Darth Vader

Lets see what you've got your dark lord doing in this scenario.

Meet the Man on my team who could most likely solo. The Dark Lord of the Sith, today has been equipped with gear best suited to him. The Ebony Blade to compliment his skilled bladesmanship, and the Red Lantern Ring, a tool that is fueled by rage. Vader is considered one of the best swordsmen in the galaxy, surpassed by few. His rage is almost legendary, his hatred of the Jedi, the Rebel Alliance, and most of all, himself.

While that's a fantastic little bio you've created the only possible way for Vader to solo is if I dropped out of this tournament. Vader can't hope to solo in this tournament, heck, I don't think Vader can hope to do much of anything given the fact that his equipment & abilities are poor counters for my own devices.

Another handy thing about the Lantern Rings, is that they give you protection against matter manipulation, so that nice little mirror gun and alchemy stone won't be much good. It deals with the depths of space, so cold isn't an issue either. It even protects against atmospheric conditions, so you can't create a tornado in Vader's belly.

You're correct about the matter manipulation - but you're wrong about the Cold Gun and the Weather Wand.

Not really, Lantern rings are capable of simulating any sort of temperature or atmospheric changes

Temperature Control: The Ring can increase or decrease the temperature of anything, even something as large as stars, or even create bubbles of intense heat or cold, even down to Absolute Zero.

So it stands to reason, that if a ring can create those temperatures, then it can withstand those temperatures.

  1. Space isn't as cold as the temperatures that the Cold Gun spit out - absolute zero prevents any & all molecular motion from happen, which is why Flash can't move through the field & it allows Snart to actually stand a chance against someone who can move FTL.
  2. The ring might protect the external of the user from atmospheric conditions, but I've never seen the rings prevent internal effects from impacting the person wearing the ring.

Its still entirely possible for Mysterio to plant a storm in Vader's stomach & for SpOck to flash freeze Vader via Cold Gun.

Because Mysterio can decide that's a valid tactic with only a month? Unless he read that one comic, I don't see how he would think of that.

The Ebony Blade, as you kindly pointed out, makes you unkillable, except for when you are hurt by another Ebony weapon, and considering the Sinister has no swordsmanship feats, he'll be in trouble when Vader slices him in half, or just throws him into space with a giant construct, or make him drop the sword and choke him out. Hell, he can do this to most of your team. I'll be interested in how you deal with him.

While the Ebony blade grants functional immortality & a high powered healing factor, it doesn't prevent pain nor does it prevent damage from being done. It's also incredibly easy to disarm Vader in this scenario - especially via Mirror World BFR.

This is the guy who had his arms sliced off, had most of his flesh burned off, and as I showed, stabbed himself. Lantern Rings can also drop you in a pocket dimension

Vader is FAR from solo'ing in this scenario.

So far, he very well may. He has raw power that you just haven't shown yet.

He can just sense you like he did with Obi-Wan

Then he can choke you out, or spear you with constructs before you even think about trying something. His power is great enough that he can choke a dude out from a completely separate ship casually, course he can always do this with a construct too. He could even pull you close enough so that he can just gut you with the Ebony Blade

Skip to 1:33

So even if you are behind me, I can sense you, pull you towards me (immobilized of course) and chop you into tiny little pieces. You're only possible resistance to this would be Kid Omega's telekinesis, which he'll be struggling to use as he'll be under attack from Harry Dresden

2. Ultimate Green Goblin

With the Vader hype brought down a couple pegs, it's time to do the same to GG.

I'll have him start by turning into Echo Echo (a silicon based lifeform) and duplicating to the limit, 50. If one goes down, a new one will appear. They will scream, shattering anything that's even slightly reflective in a small radius so you can't really sneak up on me. Then he will turn to Swampfire and make a versatile jungle of alien plant life, that shoots down any chances of Mysterio getting through (short of coming out of Vader's armor into his nice highly corrosive energy field). From there he will turn to Big Chill and wait.

Here's where I've got a problem with your plan & how you're using your knowledge.

  1. Your team knows nothing of Mysterio's abilities with the Mirror Master equipment. Your Battle Computer doesn't work because my team is immune to technology via the T-Masks that they put on during the prep. So you're completely blind on what my team is capable of.
  2. Why would GG just randomly decide to bust all of the reflective surfaces in the nearby area - he doesn't know that my team is capable of moving through them thanks to Mysterio - he's entirely in the dark about my team, my equipment, and my plan.

So I don't see any logical reason for him to shatter the reflective surfaces - the Jungle & Big Chill makes sense, but the reflective surfaces should still be in play.

Can't argue with that, I could very well use Diamondhead instead, and that would be a nightmare, I'll still use Echo Echo, as he's the most practical ATM.

If you can prove that GG would have a reason for destroying all of the reflective surfaces of this entire battleground then I'd like to inform you that the Mirror Master equipment would allow Mysterio to travel through the eyes of your team - eyes are reflective.

Scans are from Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge in case you were wondering. Thanks, might have to read that one

Again, why would Mysterio do that when he could just as easily jump out of a window or a shiny piece of metal? There is no foundation in Mysterio creating a tornado in Vader's stomach, something that the Weather Wizard only did once, while bloodlusted, nor jumping out of the eyes seems practical, especially when Mysterio is all about being unseen.

3. Greed

Greed poses no threat to my team in any way/shape/form. He has no resistances to BFR, Transmutation, or Flash Freeze via Cold Gun.

While I won't be going to Overspace with it, 60-100 feet tall should suffice. So you'll be dealing with a very large, shadow demon summoning, relatively indestructible Demon.

You just made Greed a much larger target to be transmuted & frozen, thanks for the help on that one.

Has the cold gun shown the ability to cover 60-100 ft tall men completely? To transmute him, you first have to transmute his ultimate shield first, which will give him plenty of time to step on you.

4. Harry Dresden

Harry is the one person on your team I've never actually seen anything about - so this'll be interesting.

Really good series by Jim Butcher, I highly recommend it, it's 15 books long IIRC and ongoing.

Unlike Mysterio, Dresden is no mere illusionist, he is a full on Wizard, the Winter Knight, and an all around bad@ss. He's capable of tossing out spells like these.

How dare you insult the man who brings the majority of your team to their demise, those spells are cool but you'll have to apply them to this battle & explain how they'd actually help Harry out for me to be more concerned.

Some Examples are in order then

  • Harry uses a magnetism spell, he can easily duplicate this with the Staff of One (with much more potency) and rip all of the metal devices out of you're reach, including things like the Wand, the Cold Gun, Mirror Master's Gear, the T-Masks, etc. Without that, it will become a very short match.

    Kyle Hamilton appeared, across the dogpile over the fallen knight. He bared his fangs at me, and lifted a semiautomatic, one of the expensive models. Gold-plated. “Fare thee well, Dresden." I lifted the cane, its runes shimmering blue and white, and snapped. “Venteferro!" The magic whispered silently out through the runes on the cane. Earth magic isn’t really my forte, but I like to keep my hand in. The runes and the power I willed into the staff reached out and caught the gun in invisible waves of magnetism. I had been worried that the spells I’d laid on the cane might have gone stale, but they were still hanging in there. The gun flew from Kyle’s hands. I whipped it through the air, into the face of another vamp coming toward Justine. It hit at something just this side of the speed of sound, and sent the thing flying back into the darkness.

  • Harry uses lightning, he can use this to fry your electronics with ease, even kill you.

    Talos’s eyes widened, and his fingers made a series of swift warding gestures. I gathered my rage together and reached down into the ground beneath me, found the fury of the storm within it that matched my own. I thrust the end of my staff down into the misty cloud-ground as if I’d been driving a hole through a frozen lake, then extended my right hand toward the Winter Knight. “Ventas!" I shouted. “Ventas fulmino!" The fury of the storm beneath us reared up through the wood of my staff, electricity rising in a buzzing roar of light and energy coming up from the ground and spiraling around the staff and across my body. It whirled down my extended right arm, a serpent of blue-white lightning, hesitated for a second, and then lashed across the space between me and the tip of Lloyd Slate’s sword, fastening onto the blade, and bathing Slate in a writhing coruscation of azure sparks. Slate’s body jerked, his back arching violently. Thunder tore the air apart as the bolt of lightning struck home, throwing Slate into the air and hurling him violently to the ground. The shock wave of the thunder knocked me down, together with everyone else in the immediate area. Everyone except Talos. The Lord Marshal of Summer braced himself against the concussion, lifting one hand before his eyes as if it had been a stiff breeze. Then, in the deafening silence that came after, he lifted his sword and came straight toward me. I reached for my blasting rod, on the ground not far away, lifted it, and threw a quick lash of fire at Talos. The Sidhe lord didn’t even bother to gesture it aside. It splashed against him and away, and with a sweep of his sword he sent my blasting rod spinning from my grasp. I lifted my staff as a feeble shield with my left hand, and he struck that away as well. Some of my hearing returned, enough for me to hear him say, “And so it ends." “You’re damned right," I muttered. “Look down." He did. I’d drawn my .357 in my right hand while he’d knocked the staff out of my left. I braced my right elbow against the ground and pulled the trigger. A second roar of thunder, sharper than the first, blossomed out from the end of the gun. I don’t think the bullet penetrated the dark faerie mail, because it didn’t tear through Talos like it should have. It hit him like a sledgehammer instead, driving him back and toppling him to the ground. He lay there for a moment, stunned. It was cheap, but I was in a freaking war and I was more than a little angry. I kicked him in the face with the heel of my boot, and then I leaned down and clubbed him with the heavy barrel of the .357 until his stunned attempts to defend himself ceased and he lay still, the skin of his face burned and blistered where the steel of the gun’s barrel stuck him.

  • Harry creates and controls a construct of a giant hand made of soulfire. He can utterly destroy you with something similar, soullfire (as implied) is the opposite of hellfire and burns at your soul.

    Power screamed as it wrenched its way out of my body. It shattered the black-thread bars of my prison and left a streak of metallic light on the air behind it for an instant, reflective, like a trail of liquid chrome. It caught the falling Denarian in a massive silvery simulacrum of my own fist. I actually felt my fingers close over the gaunt, skeletal, grey-skinned figure, felt the numerous spurs of bone jutting from its joints press painfully into my flesh. I flung it away from me with a cry, and the huge silver hand flung the Denarian into the nearest wall, ripping through several feet of expensive stone terracing and carefully simulated Pacific Northwest. I stared for a second, first at the stunned Denarian, and then at my own spread fingers-and at the floating silvery hand beyond, mirroring my movements. Then the skeletal Denarian gathered itself and rose, fast as hell-until I shoved the heel of my hand forward and drove his bony ass six inches into the wall of rock behind him. “Oh, yeah, baby!" I heard myself howl, elated. “Talk to the hand!" I picked up the thorny fiend by a leg and laughed as it raked and bit and scrabbled at the construct that held it. I could feel the pain of it-but it was a small thing, really, something I might have gotten from a rat. Unpleasant as hell, but I’d felt much, much worse, and it was nothing compared to the agony of the power still burning inside me. I slammed him into the wall again, then swung him twenty feet through the air, shoved him through a pane of unbroken three-inch-thick glass on the outer wall of the Oceanarium, drew him back through, and then rammed him through the next one, and the next one, and the one after that, cutting him to tatters as I did.

  • Harry shorts out all the technology in a room with a hex. Goodbye Tech!!! Of course I'll have to make sure I don't mess up the Omnitrix so I might have Norman get out of range, or focus the blast with the Staff of One.

    She reached for the phone on her desk. I pointed a finger at it, sent out an effort of will, and hissed, “Hexus." Fouling up technology is a fairly simple thing for a wizard to do. But it isn’t surgical in its precision. Sparks erupted from the phone, from her computer, from the overhead lights, and from something inside her coat pocket, accompanied by several sharp popping sounds.

  • You like your cold gun so much, I could always freeze you back

    Harry freezes an assassin’s gun.

    I was tied down, but my hands weren’t. I flexed the fingers of my right hand into the mystic position of attack - holding them like a pretend gun - and snapped, “Arctis!". The spell tore the heat from all around the gun and drew water from the air into an instant, thick coating of ice, heaviest around the weapon’s hammer. The shooter twitched in reaction to the spell and pulled the trigger. The encrusting ice held the hammer back and prevented it from falling. The gunman blinked and tried to pull the trigger several more times, to no avail.

Of course he also has the Medusa Mask (New 52), which unlike it's predecessor, actually drains you of psychic energy.

Ah, cool. What's the most powerful psychic user the Mask has been used on - is there a limit to how much energy is can absorb? I say this because Clark isn't a telepath in any way/shape/form nor is he a TK user so his defense for such an attack isn't really all that great.

Regardless - it doesn't protect Harry form transmutation or flash freeze or BFR.

It doesn't, but you're attacking Vader first, so he'll have plenty of time to take them down. I can't post the scans now, but it took a psychically empowered Lois Lane, Hive Queen, and Superman to take him down, who he beat each alone, along with Hector Hammond while he was making people tear each other apart.So while you are trying to defend against the psychic assault, you're team will be in a rage trying to kill each other.

No Caption Provided

He also possesses the Staff of One, a powerful tool activated by the drawing of blood, and only limited by pain, which Harry has had more than his fair share of, considering that he has died and come back, had the flesh seared off his arms, etc.

He won't have time to use it - but it's cool.

You aren't superfast, so he kinda will.

He also can back up Vader's TP protection with the Staff of One.

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He can also resurrect himself with the Staff of One, so good luck getting rid of him.

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He can just wave his Staff and watch you fall to pieces. And being morals off means he will do this as he wishes.

No Caption Provided

That's my limit for full scans right now (lol)

The Battle

Alright - I'm going to bullet point this because it'll be a lot easier for everyone to read.

  • Your team isn't immune to technology, thus the Battle Computer is actually able to predict all your movements accurately, thus allowing my team to know everything you're going to do before you do it - and we've got all the counters we need to prevent you from doing anything productive throughout this entire battle.
    • I'm not immune, but I can disable it with relative ease, and put your very tech-heavy team out of the running.
  • The reflective surfaces are still in play for this because Norman has no reason to destroy them at the start of the match.
    • Correct
  • Vader will be the first target now since he's providing the telepathic defenses - since the Battle Computer knows he's capable of doing this my team will prepare to take him down first. Mysterio is invisible & can move through reflective surfaces, all he needs to do is put his invisible hand out of one while holding the wand & plant a storm in Vader's stomach. He isn't immune to internal attacks of that sort to my knowledge [ maybe you can prove this ] thus it'll cause him to explode into a plethora of little bits.
    • Vader isn't the only one with TP protection, he can choke you out, block your attacks, and just destroy you.
  • To prevent Vader from regenerating the Ebony Blade will be brought into the Mirror World by one the Mysterio duplicates, thus Vader is down for the count.
    • If you could outduel Vader, I would be amazed.
  • Harry will become the next target for assault due to his Medusa Mask - thankfully he also isn't immune to storms in stomachs, nor is he immune to absolute zero or transmutation. SpOck or Mysterio could transmute him or freeze him or just blast him to bits [ via WW wand ] to prevent the mask from being used to eat QQ's psychic energy.
    • Will you do this before or after all your tech is gone, it takes one word, and you're attacking Vader first.
  • Quire then mindrapes the rest of your team due to their lack of telepathic defenses - or they get brought down the same way everyone else did.
    • Have plenty of TP defense, so no.

Conclusions

  • Battle computer grants my team knowledge of everything you'll do before you do it. QQ's psychic link with my team allows them to also gain this knowledge.
    • Until Harry destroys the battle computer with a simple spell
  • Nobody on your team is immune to Absolute Zero or Storms in stomachs.
    • Vader does, Harry does, and the storm in stomach, Greed and Osborn do.
  • Once Vader & Harry get brought down nobody on your team is immune to telepathy or mental assaults.
    • If they get brought down before your team does, you're presuming you hit first, when you have no superhuman
  • Only Vader is immune to transmutation/matter manipulation
    • And Harry, to a degree, the Staff gives him some superhuman durability and he can create magic shields at will.
  • Nobody on your team is immune to BFR.
    • The same for yours, pocket dimension a la lantern ring.
  • Nobody on your team is immune to being blinded via Mysterio/Mirror Master combo.
    • Vader is, considering Lanterns are immune to matter manip, plus he can sense you. Harry is, as he can just regen his eyes and the eyes of my other teammates.
  • Mysterio is invisible, can move through reflective surfaces, duplicate himself a near infinite number of times, create storms in stomachs or any other weather condition, and transmute your team - he can dang near solo your entire team without you ever knowing he was there in the first place.
    • Nothing is invisible to the force, Vader will have you killed dead before you think about sneaking up on the team.

So goodluck, Jac. I'm going to need to see some serious counters here to gain any ounce of faith that your team could pull this off.

I was going to say the same thing...

You're going to have to pull something big out of you're bag, because as of now, I don't see any reasons why Vader can't solo, nor Dresden. It's not so much you're team, it's just that you're gear is next to useless against the POWER OF THE DARK SIDE

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@jacthripper: This'll be fun.

Counters // Rebuttals

I'm just going to take your statements throughout this debate & answer/address them in this section.

Not really, Lantern rings are capable of simulating any sort of temperature or atmospheric changes

Temperature Control: The Ring can increase or decrease the temperature of anything, even something as large as stars, or even create bubbles of intense heat or cold, even down to Absolute Zero.

So it stands to reason, that if a ring can create those temperatures, then it can withstand those temperatures.

Did you get that information from the CV wiki page of Hal Jordan?

No Caption Provided

Drat - you did. The problem with pure wiki statements is the fact that anyone could have edited that in there. I bring this up because I've edited several wiki pages here on the site, and some of them were an absolute mess of misinformation or untrue statements.

Could you please provide a scan of a Lantern withstanding or emulating temperatures of absolute zero, the vacuum of space isn't absolute zero.

Because Mysterio can decide that's a valid tactic with only a month? Unless he read that one comic, I don't see how he would think of that.

Weather Wizard didn't read the comic, yet he used it as a valid tactic. There's also the fact that my team has obtained information 30 minutes before the fight explaining who your team is & what they're capable of. If Vader is as threatening & capable of what you're saying he is in this fight then my team has no reason to hold back against him, especially when nobody on my team truly has any moral obligation against killing.

If Mysterio's morals are in question here he was willing to kill Sandman after Ock transmuted him to glass in The Amazing Spider-Man #338 - Death From Above, and he had worked with Sandman in the Sinister Six for quite some time. Here he's facing an opponent who he has absolutely no connection to who is absolutely willing to kill him if he gets the chance to.

There's also the fact that we've used the Battle Computer & have played out millions of potential scenarios for this battle, we know what works & what doesn't. Unfortunately for you, your team doesn't have that luxury, and Mysterio does. He knows an internal storm would instantly decommission Vader from the fight.

Plus, we've got some incredibly intelligent combatants on our team, and Mysterio gets a MONTH to train with that wand. The original Weather Wizard wasn't any sort of genius nor did he require specific training to create a storm in someones stomach, so as I see it - this tactic is 100% valid & entirely possible.

This is the guy who had his arms sliced off, had most of his flesh burned off, and as I showed, stabbed himself. Lantern Rings can also drop you in a pocket dimension

Mysterio can disarm Vader without even leaving the Mirror World - and he can pick which items to BFR. Here's a selection of panels to demonstrate that.

No Caption Provided

As you see - he only took the drawers/containers in the vault, he didn't take the entire shelving complex, nor did he take the step stool. The BFR can be selected by the user, and in this case we can BFR the Ebony Blade to prevent Vader from reviving himself after that Tornado gets planted inside his gut.

So far, he very well may. He has raw power that you just haven't shown yet.

Nope, still not solo'ing. His raw power has absolutely no usage in this scenario. Fight smarter - not harder.

He can just sense you like he did with Obi-Wan

Vader doesn't have the force abilities to sense beings in another dimension, because that's what the Mirror World is & Mysterio & Ock don't need to leave it to do the damage they're planning to do in this scenario; worst case scenario requires one of them to stick only their hand out of the Mirror World via any reflective surface while most of what they do can be accomplished by harming Vader's reflection.

As the first panel shows, people in the Mirror World are capable of firing into the real world by only putting their hand into the real world; however, most of this can be avoided by harming the Mirror World Version/Reflection of a person that can't fight back in any way, shape, or form. Thus, Mysterio can do all this damage without actually having to place himself in any sort of harm.

Then he can choke you out, or spear you with constructs before you even think about trying something. His power is great enough that he can choke a dude out from a completely separate ship casually, course he can always do this with a construct too. He could even pull you close enough so that he can just gut you with the Ebony Blade

Still not powerful enough to harm Mysterio or SpOck while they're in the mirror world, that's a different dimension entirely.

So even if you are behind me, I can sense you, pull you towards me (immobilized of course) and chop you into tiny little pieces. You're only possible resistance to this would be Kid Omega's telekinesis, which he'll be struggling to use as he'll be under attack from Harry Dresden

We don't even have to leave the Mirror World to do what I'm saying we'll do - SpOck can harm Vader's reflection with the philosophers stone & it'll transmute the real version, or Mysterio can plant that tornado in the reflection's stomach to blow the real Vader to bits.

As for Dresden, we don't need to worry about him. He'll be blind & my team knows anything & everything he's going to do in this fight before he even knows he'll do it. We have total control of the battlefield & this entire maneuver won't take more than 10 seconds.

Again, why would Mysterio do that when he could just as easily jump out of a window or a shiny piece of metal? There is no foundation in Mysterio creating a tornado in Vader's stomach, something that the Weather Wizard only did once, while bloodlusted, nor jumping out of the eyes seems practical, especially when Mysterio is all about being unseen.

You answered your own question in this post when you said Mysterio is all about being unseen. Why would he jump out of the Mirror World to hurt your team when I've just shown he's fully capable of doing so while residing in an entirely different dimension.

There IS a foundation in Mysterio creating a tornado in Vader's stomach due to the fact that Mysterio knows what Vader is capable of thanks to the information given to us by S.H.I.E.L.D 30 minutes into our hour of prep, along with the fact that Kid Omega created a TP link & shared all the scenarios that the Battle Computer displayed of this fight, which would be millions of scenarios & possibilities.

In this case, planting a lethal storm inside the gut of a group of people who are here for the sole purpose of killing you (not just trying to put you in jail like Spider-Man normally would) is the easiest way of dispatching of them, especially when none of your team has a true resistance against this form of assault.

Also; Weather Wizard wasn't bloodlusted during Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge, he was just having a bad day - as the other Rogues were, and wanted to get rid of the idiots that stole their old gear.

Has the cold gun shown the ability to cover 60-100 ft tall men completely? To transmute him, you first have to transmute his ultimate shield first, which will give him plenty of time to step on you.

The Cold Gun specifically hasn't, but it'd still work if used on a portion of Greed's leg or something. Just shoot it, shatter it, and watch the giant fall.

However; that does point me to the powerful force that is Captain Cold's Cold Grenades:

No Caption Provided

As you can see in the above set of panels, a SINGLE Cold Grenade was able to encase the entirety of Iron Heights & some of the surrounding area in an iceberg. It would easily cover your giant team member, heck, it could catch your entire team in a single blast.

Harry uses a magnetism spell, he can easily duplicate this with the Staff of One (with much more potency) and rip all of the metal devices out of you're reach, including things like the Wand, the Cold Gun, Mirror Master's Gear, the T-Masks, etc. Without that, it will become a very short match.

The Weather Wand grants the user control over Earth's magnetic field. Weather Wizard went up against a Rogue named Magenta whose entire powerset relied on magnetism (she was like Magneto-lite) yet he made her feel pretty helpless during the Rogue War.

No Caption Provided

There's also the fact that SpOck & Mysterio are in another dimension so you can't steal their gear, and both Kid Omega & Sinister are surrounded by a field of Absolute Zero setup by SpOck during the prep phase, so anything you try to pull from their grip would just stop the moment it hit that field.

In any case, my tech heavy team is still very much armed & countering that attack should you get the chance to use it.

Harry uses lightning, he can use this to fry your electronics with ease, even kill you.

Once again, an elemental attack. Not a wise choice when I've got the Weather Wand. The thing is; since Mysterio's getting an entire month to practice with that thing all Weather will begin to defend him without him actively having to focus on it.

No Caption Provided

See, the climate protects him now, so trying to use lightning (the climate) against someone who the climate protects doesn't work. Also; if you're looking at that scan and saying that someone helped train him to do that, the "she" he's talking about is Blacksmith who has no formal training in anything regarding climate, Mardon used to just restrict himself due to Cold's Moral Code.

Harry creates and controls a construct of a giant hand made of soulfire. He can utterly destroy you with something similar, soullfire (as implied) is the opposite of hellfire and burns at your soul.

That COULD MAYBE work if the Soulfire had a way of touching my team; remember two of them are in a different dimension while two of them are protected in a field of absolute zero.

Harry shorts out all the technology in a room with a hex. Goodbye Tech!!! Of course I'll have to make sure I don't mess up the Omnitrix so I might have Norman get out of range, or focus the blast with the Staff of One.

That one is cool - but remember, he'd have to actually KNOW where my team is to do that, and at this point the battlefield is still covered in a thick fog, millions of Mirror Master illusions are running around, and Harry doesn't actually know that the abilities my team are using are via tech. He has no knowledge on any member of my team, while I've got entire dossiers on yours.

It's hard to hit someone with a focused blast when you're blinded, your target is in another dimension, and you're under attack with illusions of your target flooding the battlefield.

You like your cold gun so much, I could always freeze you back

If you could hit me, then I'd just have Mysterio use the Weather Wand to create a heatwave to melt the ice, or SpOck could use his Pyrokinesis gained via the Dragon Talisman.

It doesn't, but you're attacking Vader first, so he'll have plenty of time to take them down. I can't post the scans now, but it took a psychically empowered Lois Lane, Hive Queen, and Superman to take him down, who he beat each alone, along with Hector Hammond while he was making people tear each other apart.So while you are trying to defend against the psychic assault, you're team will be in a rage trying to kill each other.

He went against foes that had to use either direct confrontation or psychic powers, the exact things that don't work against the Medusa Mask; however, I've got two members who would be unaffected by this because their in another dimension. You could TRY and manipulate a Phoenix powered Kid Omega, but the mask hasn't shown to work against anyone of that power level to my knowledge, especially with the buff's he has due to his gear.

There's also the fact that Dresden doesn't have a counter for being blinded in this fight, something easily done early on by Mysterio & his various duplicates. You seem to be forgetting that fact, it's really difficult to fight & fight accurately when you can't see anything & you're being attacked from another dimension.

You aren't superfast, so he kinda will.

Mysterio has the Rabbit Talisman, so he actually is super fast, he can go super sonic speeds with that thing. Plus he can be anywhere a reflective surface is, which is all over the entire battlefield.

He's got the speed, the maneuverability, and the equipment required to accomplish everything he needs to accomplish in a mere matter of seconds.

He also can back up Vader's TP protection with the Staff of One.

I'm not attacking Vader w/TP so I don't see the point in this maneuver :P

He can also resurrect himself with the Staff of One, so good luck getting rid of him.

BFR him or the Staff to the Mirror World to prevent resurrection. If he does manage to resurrect, kill him the same way as before. If the Staff of One prevented all forms of death then it'd be an instant win for whatever teams had it because it's impossible for the user to die - which is false.

He can just wave his Staff and watch you fall to pieces. And being morals off means he will do this as he wishes.

He can't see us, he can't sense us. We're attacking from a different dimension. He is completely out of his element in this situation & has no real chance of survival or a chance to fight back in all honesty.

I'm not immune, but I can disable it with relative ease, and put your very tech-heavy team out of the running.

Debunked.

Vader isn't the only one with TP protection, he can choke you out, block your attacks, and just destroy you.

Debunked.

If you could outduel Vader, I would be amazed.

No need to fight Vader in purely a sword fight, also no need to confront him in a physical match. Debunked.

Will you do this before or after all your tech is gone, it takes one word, and you're attacking Vader first.

This entire attack can be done in mere seconds thanks to Mysterio's duplicates, super speed, and maneuverability. Our tech isn't going anywhere as I showed earlier. Debunked.

Have plenty of TP defense, so no.

Not after Vader & Harry get brought down in the first 3 - 5 seconds of this match.

Until Harry destroys the battle computer with a simple spell

Under the given circumstances he's not going to get the chance to do such, nor does he know we HAVE a Battle Computer, and he's still however far the starting distance is from my team due to Kid Omega having the Battle Computer for our team.

Plus I provided plenty of counters for your plans to rid me of my tech.

Vader does, Harry does, and the storm in stomach, Greed and Osborn do.

  • Vader doesn't unless you can prove to me that the Ring can protect a lantern from absolute zero temperatures or mimic them.
  • Harry doesn't nor would he know to protect himself from such an attack before it could happen.
  • Greed doesn't.
  • Osborn doesn't unless one of his aliens does; however, he'd have to know to be that alien before the attack hit him in the 3 to 5 seconds it'll take my team to enact this plan.
  • Nobody on your team is immune to ol' Storm in Stomach.

If they get brought down before your team does, you're presuming you hit first, when you have no superhuman

They do get brought down before anyone on my team does for the following reasons:

  • The battlefield is set to my teams advantage due to the hour of prep beforehand.
  • My team knows everything about your team due to Perk Information & Battle Computer.
  • My team knows where your team will be even before your team can make those moves thanks to the Battle Computer.
  • Mirror Master does have Super Speed thanks to the Rabbit Talisman & he can easily maneuver the battlefield due to Mirror Master's equipment granting him access & control over the Mirror World.

My team is at a complete advantage in this scenario, our gear grants us the knowledge we need & the abilities to easily dispatch of your team without a hitch.

Vader is, considering Lanterns are immune to matter manip, plus he can sense you. Harry is, as he can just regen his eyes and the eyes of my other teammates.

It's not matter manipulation, nor is it actually harming the eye. Mirror Master's way of blinding is just blocking the basic function. If duplicates of Mysterio reside in the reflective surfaces of your eyes it prevents any light from entering them, thus it prevents the brain from processing what the eye is seeing. Nothing is actually "wrong" with the eye so there isn't anything to regenerate, nor is matter manipulation involved.

You're going to have to pull something big out of you're bag, because as of now, I don't see any reasons why Vader can't solo, nor Dresden. It's not so much you're team, it's just that you're gear is next to useless against the POWER OF THE DARK SIDE

Even the Power of the Dark Side won't help you survive this beatdown, Jac :)

Summary

  • My team knows everything about your team
  • My team knows everything your team will do before they can do it
  • Two members of my team can't be touched due to the fact that they're in the Mirror World, the other two are surrounded in a field of absolute zero.
  • You can't disable my tech, and I've provided the reasons why above.
  • Mysterio is super fast via Talisman & can create millions of himself as illusions in the prep phase to distract your team plus the fact that the arena is covered in a thick fog. Plus Mysterio can do what he needs to do w/o leaving the Mirror World.
  • Your entire team is blinded in the first second or two of the battle with absolutely no way to prevent it or grant yourself sight. You're fighting against an enemy you can't touch or see without knowledge of this enemy or the threat level they possess.
  • You were in my trap the moment this battle began with no way to exit.
  • Greed & Osborne go down via Mindrape the moment Vader & Harry go down via reflection kills, transmuation, or storm in stomach.

The Formidable Four came, they saw, and they dominated.

:)

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Jacthripper

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@thetruebarryallen: You're right, this is going to be fun, I'll get my next post up ASAP. Great debate so far, definitely the best I've had in the first round of a tourney!!!

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@thetruebarryallen: You're right, this is going to be fun, I'll get my next post up ASAP. Great debate so far, definitely the best I've had in the first round of a tourney!!!

Radical! No rush on your part, been having a fun debate too, glad you're also enjoying it!!

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@thetruebarryallen: This is the last post, then we're going to voting

More Stuff you didn't know about Harry Dresden

More ways I can kill you

Potions, can easily conjure them up with the Staff of One, and use them to my advantage

He can use these for himself, or conjure them within your stomachs and cause you to feel the effects.

Harry and Susan drink an escape potion that Harry made as a last ditch effort to escape the demon that invaded Harry’s apartment.

More shampoo from my hair trailed down my already burning eyes, and I squeezed them closed. I slugged away about half the potion, trying to ignore the flat-cola taste, and quickly passed the rest to Susan. She smiled lazily and drank it down, licking her lips. It started in my guts--a sort of fluttery, wobbly feeling that moved out, up through my lungs and out along my shoulders, down my arms. It also went down, over my hips and into my legs. I began to shake and quiver uncontrollably. And then I just flew apart into a cloud of a million billion tiny pieces of Harry, each one with its own perspective and view. The room wasn’t just a square, cluttered basement to me, but a pattern of energies, grouped into specific shapes and uses. Even the demon was only a cloud of particles, slow and dense. I flowed around that cloud, up through the opening in the ceiling pattern, and outside of the apartment and into the raging nonpattern of the storm. It took maybe five seconds, and then the power of the potion faded. I felt all the little pieces of me abruptly rush back together and slam into one another at unthinkable speed. It hurt, and made me nauseous, a sort of heavy-duty thump of impact that didn’t come from any one direction, but from every direction at once. I staggered, planted my staff on the ground, and felt the rain wash down over me. Susan appeared next to me a heart beat later, and promptly sat down on her butt on the ground, in the rain.

Harry drinking a blending potion to sneak into a police station to get to MacFinn.

Outside the battered old police-building downtown, I pulled the baseball cap a little lower over my eyes, and drank the blending potion. It didn’t really have any taste to it at all, but it twitched and bubbled all the way down my gullet until it hit my stomach. I gave the potion a few seconds to work and shifted my hands on the handle of my wizard’s staff. Even though the end of it was shoved into a wheeled bucket, it still didn’t look much like the handle of a mop. And even though I was dressed in the dark blue coveralls, they were ridiculously short on me. I did not look much like a janitor. That’s where the magic came in. If the potion worked, I would look like background to any casual observers, a part of the scenery that they wouldn’t glance at twice. So long as they didn’t give me an intense scrutiny, the potion’s power should be able to keep me from being noticed, which would let me get close to MacFinn, which would let me put the containment circle around him and keep his transformed self from going on a rampage. Of course, if it didn’t work, I might just end up studying the inside of a jail cell for a few years-- provided the transformed MacFinn didn’t tear me apart first. I tried to ignore the pain in my shoulder, the nervous tension in my stomach. I was rebandaged, Tylenoled, and as reasonably refreshed as I could possibly have been without drinking the potion I had brewed just for that purpose. If I could have had both potions going in my system without them making me too ill to move, I would have downed the refresher potion the moment I got my hands on it, but without the blending potion, there was no way I could get inside to MacFinn. I could only hope that I’d find a use for it eventually. I’d hate the effort to go to waste. I waited impatiently in the rain, sure for a moment that I had messed something up when making the potion, that it wasn’t going to have any effect at all. And then I felt it start to work. A sort of grey feeling came over me, and I realized with a start that the colors were fading from my vision. A sort of listless feeling came over me, a lassitude that advised me to sit down somewhere and watch the world go by, but at the same time the hairs on the back of my neck prickled up as the potion’s magic took effect. I took a deep breath and walked up the stairs of the building with my bucket and my “mop”, pulled open the doors, and went inside. Shadows shifted and changed oddly, all greys and blacks and whites, and for a second I felt like an extra on the set of Casablanca or The Maltese Falcon. The solid old matron of a sergeant sat at the front desk, thumbing through a glossy magazine, a portrait done in colorless hues. She glanced up at me for a second, and tinges of color returned to her uniform, her cheeks, and her eyes. She looked me over casually, sniffed, and lowered her face to her magazine again. As her attention faded, so did the colors from her clothing and skin. My perceptions of her changed as she paid attention to me or did not. I felt my face stretch in a victorious smile. The potion had worked. I was inside. I had to suppress an urge to break into a soft-shoe routine. Sometimes, being able to use magic was so cool. I almost stopped hurting for a few seconds, from sheer enjoyment of the special effects. I would have to remember to tell Bob how much I liked the way this potion worked. I kept my head down and moved past the desk sergeant, just one more janitor coming in to clean up the police station after hours. I picked up the bucket and my “mop” and went up the stairs, toward the holding cells and the Special Investigations offices on the fifth floor. One cop passed me on the stairs and didn’t so much as look at me. His uniform and skin remained entirely devoid of color. I grew more confident and moved with more speed. I was effectively invisible.

Wards, against anything he wants, at his will with the Staff of One

Harry’s magic wards protect him from a shotgun blast.

Murphy watched the gunman with flat, icy eyes for a second and then spun to me, setting her gun aside to reach under my coat. “I’m okay," I wheezed. “I’m okay. The coat stopped it." Murphy looked startled. “Since when has the duster been lined with Kevlar?" “It isn’t," I said. “It’s magic. Hurts like hell but I’ll be all right." Murphy gripped my shoulder hard.

Harry’s protective wards on his duster keep him safe from a blow from a vampire’s thrall with supernatural strength.

I met his blind gaze, and there was nothing there. Nothing. Just an empty darkness so vast and terrible that my lungs froze and my breath locked in my throat. By the time I realized what I was seeing, the man had already let out a feral shriek and charged me. I shouted in surprise and tried to back up, but he was simply too fast. He backhanded me. The enchantments on my duster diverted much of the power in it, so it didn’t crack any of my ribs, but it was still strong enough to throw me from my feet and into a wall.

Harry’s warded duster stops bullets from several military-grade firearms.

Deirdre surfaced maybe twenty feet in front of me, carrying her father. Before she even looked around she screamed, “Kill him, shoot him, shoot him!" Cheerfully, I swerved the boat right at her. Something thumped hard against the hull. I hoped for some kind of lawn mower-like sound from the propellers, but I didn’t get one. Gunfire erupted from the shore, meanwhile, and it wasn’t blinded by bright lights or hurried or panicked. It started ripping the boat to splinters all around me. I started shouting curse words and crouched down. Bullets hit my duster. For several seconds the range was pretty close, at least for the military-grade weapons they were using, and while the duster was up to the chore of stopping those rounds, it wasn’t any fun to experience. My back got hit with half a dozen major-league fastballs over the next few seconds.

Magical Senses/Reaction Time

Harry extends his magical senses to detect a vampire.

I reached for my magical senses and extended them toward the source of the continuing growl. “Crap. I think it’s one of the--" A sort of greasy, nauseating cold flooded over my perceptions, stealing my breath. A ghostly charnel-house scent came with it, the smell of old blood and rotting meat. I froze, looking up at the source of the sensation. The person I’d taken to be a security guard was a vampire of the Black Court. It had been a young man. Its features looked familiar, but desiccation had left its face too gaunt for me to be sure. The vampire wasn’t tall. Death had withered it into an emaciated caricature of a human being. Its eyes were covered with a white, rheumy film, and flakes of dead flesh fell from its decay-drawn lips and clung to its yellowed teeth. Hair like brittle, dead grass stood out from its head, and there was some kind of moss or mold growing in it. It snatched at me with inhuman speed, but my wizard’s senses had given me enough warning to keep its skeletal fingers from closing on my wrist --just barely.

Harry sensing a magic spell before it was used.

In the edges of my wizard’s light, shapes moved, flitted, spirits swirling around like moths. “Wizard," the Nightmare said. “Demon," I responded. I wasn’t feeling much like any snappier patter. It smiled, teeth showing. “Is that what I am," it said. “Interesting. I wasn’t sure." It lifted its hand from Charity’s throat, pointed a finger toward me, and murmured, “Goodbye, wizard. Fuego." I felt the surge of power before any fire rose up and swept toward me through the rain. I lifted my staff in my left hand in front of me, horizontally, and slammed power recklessly into a shield. “Riflettum!" Fire and rain met in a furious hiss and a cloud of steam a foot in front of my outstretched staff. The rain helped, I think. I would never have been stupid enough to try for a gout of flame in a downpour like this. It was too easily defeated.

Hexes and Problems with Magic

Harry can just exert his will to defuse tech, which the fancier it is, the easier he can break it, like all of your sci-fi tech

Harry explaining his natural wizard ability to malfunction delicate technology/machinery just by being around it.

Like I said, I have this effect on machinery. It has something to do with being a wizard, with working with magical forces. The more delicate and modern the machine is, the more likely it is that something will go wrong if I get close enough to it. I can kill a copier at fifty paces.

Harry can place a hex on pieces of technology.

Like I said, I don’t get along with technology when I’m trying to use it. But when I actually want to bust it up, I’m hell on wheels. I extended my right hand at the light fixture, snarled incoherently, and willed raw power over the electric menace like an invisible wrecking ball. The hex rippled through the air, and the live wires exploded into wild blue arcs of electricity for maybe two seconds. And then the lights went out. In the whole damn building.

Harry uses a hex to short out an elevator.

I grinned. There are times when I hate it that technology has such problems operating around wizards. And then there are the times when it’s sort of fan. I made a mild effort of will, focused my thoughts on the elevators, and murmured, “Hexus." Nebulous and unseen energy fluttered down the hallway, and when the hex hit the elevators there was a sudden hiss of sparks at one edge of the panel with the call button, and an oozing smoke dribbled out a moment later. The doors started to close, then a bell went bing. The doors sprang open again. That happened a couple of more times before Murphy closed to the elevator and caught up to Darby Crane.

Harry uses a hex to short out a police radio.

Greene spat a curse and reached for his radio, presumably to summon goons. Greene was an ass. Maybe I was going a little hex-happy, but I muttered something under my breath and made a little effort. Sparks shot out of the radio and were followed by curls of smoke. Greene stood there cursing as he tried to get the thing to work. “Dammit, Dresden," he snarled. “Get out before I have you taken downtown.“

Veils

Good luck fighting me when you can't even bother to notice me.

Harry cloaks himself in a veil

Before I could begin circling the block a few more times on that vicious cycle, a cold feeling went slithering down my spine. I didn’t even look around. Several years of tense missions with Wardens not old enough to buy their own beer had taught me to trust my instincts when they went insane in a darkened city at two in the morning. Without even thinking about it, I crouched, reached into the air surrounding me, and drew a veil around myself. Veils are subtle, tricky magic, using one of several basic theories to render objects or people less visible than they would be otherwise. I used to suck so badly at veils that I wouldn’t even try them - but I’d had to bone up on them enough to be able to teach my apprentice, Molly Carpenter, how to use them.

The Sight

I can see through any illusion, you soul, possible futures, and other dimensions.

Harry uses the Sight to see past a veil of clouds into the surrounding valley.

I drew in a slow breath. Wizards can see things most people can’t. It’s called the Sight, the Third Eye, a lot of other names. If a wizard uses his Sight, he can see the forces of magic themselves at work, spells like braids of neon lights, veils pierced like projections on a screen. A wizard’s Sight shows things as they truly are, and it’s always an unsettling experience, one way or the other. What you see with the Sight stays with you. Good or bad, it’s always just as fresh in your mind as if you’d just seen it. I’d looked on a little tree- spirit being with my Sight when I’d been about fourteen, the first time it had happened to me, and I still had a perfect picture of it in my head, as though I was still looking at it, a little cartoonish being that was part lawn gnome and part squirrel. I’d seen worse since. Much worse. Demons. Mangled souls. Tormented spirits. All of that was still there too. But I’d also seen better. One or two glimpses of beings of such beauty and purity and light that it could make me weep. But each time it got a little harder to live with, a little harder to bear, a cumulative weight. I gritted my teeth, closed my eyes, and with careful deliberation unlocked my Sight. Opening my eyes again made me stagger as I was hit with a sudden rush of impressions. The cloudy landscape absolutely seethed with magical energies. From the southern hilltop, wild green and golden light spilled, falling over the landscape like a translucent garden, vines of green, golden flowers, flashes of other colors spread through them, clawing at the gentle ground, anchored here and there at points of light so vibrant and bright that I couldn’t look directly at them. From the other side, cold blue and purple and greenish power spread like crystals of ice, with the slow and relentless power of a glacier, pressing ahead in some places, melted back in others, especially strong around the valley’s winding rivers. The conflict of energies both wound back to the hilltops themselves, to points of light as bright as small suns. I could, just barely, see the shadow of solid beings within those lights, and even the shadow of each was an overwhelming presence upon my senses. One was a sense of warmth, choking heat, so much that I couldn’t breathe, that it pressed into me and set me aflame. The other was of cold, horrible and absolute, winding cold limbs around me, stealing away my strength. Those presences flooded through me, sudden beauty, power so terrifying and exhilarating and awesome that I fell to my knees and sobbed. Those powers played against one another--I could sense that, though not the exact nature of their conflict. Energies wound about one another, subtle pressures of darkness and light, leaving the landscape vaguely lit in squares of cold and warm color. Fields of red and gold and bright green stood against empty, dead blocks of blue, purple, pale white. A pattern had formed in them, a structure to the conflict that was not wholly complete. Most of a chessboard. Only at the center, at the Table, was the pattern broken, a solid area of Summer’s power in green and gold around the Stone Table, while Winter’s dark, crystalline ice slowly pressed closer, somehow in time with the almost undetectable motion of the stars overhead. So I saw it. I got a look at what I was up against, at the naked strength of the two Queens of Faerie, and it was bigger than me. Every ounce of strength I could have summoned would have been no more than a flickering spark beside either of those blazing fountains of light and magic. It was power that had existed since the dawn of life, and would until its end. It was power that had cowed mortals into abject worship and terror before--and I finally understood why. I wasn’t a pawn of that kind of strength. I was an insect beside giants, a blade of grass before towering trees. And there was a dreadful attraction in seeing that power, something in it that called to the magic in me, like to like, made me want to hurl myself into those flames, into that endless, icy cold. Moths look at bug zappers like I looked at the Queens of Faerie. I tore my eyes away by hiding my face in my arms. I fell to my side on the ground and curled up, trying to shut the Sight, to force those images to stop flooding over me. I shook and tried to say something.

Harry activating The Sight, an ability that allows him to see the unseen

I closed my eyes for a moment, steeling myself, then focused my will into a spot right between my eyebrows, only a little higher. I felt the tension gather there, the pressure, and when I opened my eyes again, I’d opened my wizard’s Sight, too. The Sight is a blessing and a curse. It lets you see things, things you couldn’t normally see. With my Sight, I can see even the most ethereal of spirits. I can see the energies of life stirring and moving, running like blood through the world, between the earth and the sky, between water and fire. Enchantments stand out like cords braided from fiber-optic cables, or maybe Las Vegas-quality neon, depending on how complicated or powerful they are. You can sometimes see the demons that walk among mankind in human form, this way. Or the angels. You see things the way they really are, in spirit and in soul, as well as in body. The problem is that anything you see stays with you. No matter how horrible, no matter how revolting, no matter how madness-inducing or terrifying--it stays with you. Forever. Always right there in your mind in full technicolor, never fading or becoming easier to bear. Sometimes you see things that are so beautiful you want to keep them with you, always.

Harry using his Third Eye, also known as The Sight, to see the unseen around Victor Sells' lakehouse.

There could be spells waiting, illusions meant to hide Victor Sells from anyone who came looking. I needed to be able to see past all that. I needed to have every scrap of knowledge I could get. So I opened my Third Eye. How can I explain what a wizard sees? It isn’t something that lends itself readily to description. Describing something helps to define it, to give it limits, to set guardrails of understanding around it. Wizards have had the Sight since time began, and they still don’t understand how it works, why it does what it does. The only thing I can say is that I felt as though a veil of thick cloth had been lifted away from me as I opened my eyes again--and not only from my eyes, but from all of my senses. I could abruptly smell the mud and fish odor of the lake, the trees around the house, the fresh scent of the coming rain preceding the storm on the smoke-stained wind. I looked at the trees. Saw them, not just in the first green coat of spring, but in the full bloom of summer, the splendor of the fall, and the barren desolation of winter, all at the same time. I Saw the house, and each separate part of it as its own component, the timbers as parts of spectral trees, the windows as pieces of distant sandy shores. I could feel the heat of summer and the cold of winter in the wind coming off the lake. I Saw the house wreathed in ghostly flames, and knew that those were part of its possible future, that fire lay down several of the many paths of possibility that lay ahead in the next hour. The house itself was a place of power. Dark emotions--greed, lust, hatred--all hung over it as visible things, molds and slimes that were strewn over it like Spanish moss with malevolent eyes. Ghostly things, restless spirits, moved around the place, drawn to the sense of fear, despair, and anger that hung over it, mindless shades that were always to be found in such places, like rats in granaries. The other thing that I Saw over the house was a grinning, empty skull. Skulls were everywhere, wherever I looked, just at the edge of my vision, silent and still and bleach white, as solid and real as though a fetishist had scattered them around in anticipation of some bizarre holiday. Death. Death lay in the house’s future, tangible, solid, unavoidable. Maybe mine. I shuddered and shoved the feeling away.

Turning the Environment Against You

Just need a small piece of the environment to do this

Harry bringing a broom to life to distract two gunmen.

And then something occurred to me, something so childish that I almost laughed. I plucked a straw from the broomstick and began a low and steady chant, a bobbing about in the air with the fingers that held the straw. I reached out and took hold of the immense amounts of untapped energy running rampant in the air and drew them into the spell. “Pulitas!" I shouted, bringing the chant to a crescendo. “Pulitas, pulitas!" The broom twitched. It quivered. It jerked upright in my hands. And then it took off across the kitchen floor, its brush waving menacingly, to meet the scorpions' advance. The last thing I had expected to use that cleaning spell for when I had laboriously been forced to learn it was a tide of poisonous scorpion monsters, but any port in a storm. The broom swept into them with ferocious energy and started flicking them across the kitchen toward the rest of the balcony with tidy, efficient motions. Each time one of the scorpions would try to dodge around it, the broom would tilt out and catch the beastie before it could, flick it neatly onto its back and continue about its job. I’m pretty sure it got all the dirt on the way, too. When I do a spell, I do it right. Victor screeched in anger when he saw his pets, still too small to carry much mass, being so neatly corralled and ushered off the balcony. The Beckitts lifted their guns and opened fire on the broom, while I hunkered down behind the counter. They must have been using revolvers, now, because they fired smoothly and in an ordered rhythm. Bullets smacked into the walls and the counters at the back of the kitchen, but none of them came through the counter that sheltered me. I caught my breath, pressing my hand against the blood on my hip. It hurt like bloody hell. I thought the bullet was stuck, somewhere by the bone. I couldn’t move my leg. There was a lot of blood, but not so much that I was sitting in a puddle. Out on the balcony, the fire was beginning to catch, spreading over the roof. The entire place was going to come crashing down before much longer. “Stop shooting, stop shooting, damn you!" Victor screamed, as the gunfire came to a halt. I risked a peek over the counter. My broom had swept the scorpions off the edge of the balcony and to the floor of the room below. As I watched, Victor caught the broom by its handle and broke it over the balcony railing with a snarl. The straw I still held in my fingers broke with a sharp little twang, and I felt the energy fade from the spell.

Going between dimensions

Makes getting to you easy

Harry tearing open a portal to the Nevernever, a realm of the supernatural.

I closed the sack of ghost dust and put it away in my pocket. It wouldn’t do me any good in the Nevernever. I turned toward my fallen rod and staff, thrust out my hand, and spat, “Ventas servitas." The air stirred, and then flung staff and rod into my open hands before dying away again. “All right," I said. “I’m tearing open a window that will give us five minutes. Hopefully, my godmother won’t have time to find me. Anything beyond that and we’re going to be dead already or back here, in any case." “You have a good heart, Harry Dresden," Michael said, a fierce grin stretching his mouth. He stepped closer to my side. “God will smile on this choice." “Yeah. Ask Him not to Sodom and Gomorrah my apartment, and we’ll be even." Michael gave me a disappointed glance. I shot him a testy glare. He clamped a hand onto my shoulder and held on. Then I reached out, caught hold of reality in my fingertips, and with an effort of will and a whispered, “Aparturum," tore a hole between this world and the next.

Your Names

Pretty easy to ask the staff for them, then I can do whatever the heck I want with you.

Harry explains how wizards can use just the name of people and other creatures to have power over them.

Every intelligent being has a Name, a specific series of spoken sounds linked to its very being. If a practitioner knows the Name of something, knows it in every nuance and detail of pronunciation, then he can use that Name to open a magical conduit to that being. That’s how demons get summoned to the mortal world. Call something’s Name and you make contact with it --and if you’re a wizard, that means that you can then exercise power over it, no matter where in the world it is.

Counters

First off, I need to debunk something. You have a minimal speed advantage at best with the rabbit talisman, when Tohru was easily tripped by Jackie with oil, who has sub peak human reflexes, even when Tohru could see it. The talisman only grants supersonic flight when combined with the Rooster talisman

This is all from your previous post, my stuff in bold.

Because Mysterio can decide that's a valid tactic with only a month? Unless he read that one comic, I don't see how he would think of that.

Weather Wizard didn't read the comic, yet he used it as a valid tactic. There's also the fact that my team has obtained information 30 minutes before the fight explaining who your team is & what they're capable of. If Vader is as threatening & capable of what you're saying he is in this fight then my team has no reason to hold back against him, especially when nobody on my team truly has any moral obligation against killing.

What I’m saying is that Mardon had the wand for years, and used it once, I’m questioning why he would do it.

There's also the fact that we've used the Battle Computer & have played out millions of potential scenarios for this battle, we know what works & what doesn't. Unfortunately for you, your team doesn't have that luxury, and Mysterio does. He knows an internal storm would instantly decommission Vader from the fight.

Plus, we've got some incredibly intelligent combatants on our team, and Mysterio gets a MONTH to train with that wand. The original Weather Wizard wasn't any sort of genius nor did he require specific training to create a storm in someones stomach, so as I see it - this tactic is 100% valid & entirely possible.

Possible, yes. Is it likely though? There are a great many other things he can do with the Wand, why the storm in stomach route? You also are in another dimension, unless that has changed suddenly, you can’t manipulate the Weather from another dimension.

This is the guy who had his arms sliced off, had most of his flesh burned off, and as I showed, stabbed himself. Lantern Rings can also drop you in a pocket dimension

Vader is also immortal with the blade. He’s not going down that easily; he can take the pain in step. What else do I need to show to prove that, him being electrified by Sidious?

Mysterio can disarm Vader without even leaving the Mirror World - and he can pick which items to BFR. Here's a selection of panels to demonstrate that.

As you see - he only took the drawers/containers in the vault, he didn't take the entire shelving complex, nor did he take the step stool. The BFR can be selected by the user, and in this case we can BFR the Ebony Blade to prevent Vader from reviving himself after that Tornado gets planted inside his gut.

He also is standing in the real world for that strike, unless he did it from within the mirror dimension, that doesn’t show he can do that outside of the dimension. Even if he could, Vader is standing in a personal force field, rocking reactions allowing him to dogfight at hundreds of mph and shred other craft. Unless that beam can go through his hard light constructs, that means nothing.

\Vader doesn't have the force abilities to sense beings in another dimension, because that's what the Mirror World is & Mysterio & Ock don't need to leave it to do the damage they're planning to do in this scenario; worst case scenario requires one of them to stick only their hand out of the Mirror World via any reflective surface while most of what they do can be accomplished by harming Vader's reflection.

By that same token, you can’t telepathically communicate the battle computer to them. So everything coming from that would be gone.

As the first panel shows, people in the Mirror World are capable of firing into the real world by only putting their hand into the real world; however, most of this can be avoided by harming the Mirror World Version/Reflection of a person that can't fight back in any way, shape, or form. Thus, Mysterio can do all this damage without actually having to place himself in any sort of harm.

Again, precog/reaction and superspeed, you won’t hit Vader with a blast of any sort. Unless these blasts have actually shown some form of damage piercing hard light constructs or magic shields.

Then he can choke you out, or spear you with constructs before you even think about trying something. His power is great enough that he can choke a dude out from a completely separate ship casually, course he can always do this with a construct too. He could even pull you close enough so that he can just gut you with the Ebony Blade

Still not powerful enough to harm Mysterio or SpOck while they're in the mirror world, that's a different dimension entirely.

I’ll get into that later, for now, they start on the battlefield, what’s stopping Harry from disarming your tech from the start? It only takes a two syllable word to do that.

So even if you are behind me, I can sense you, pull you towards me (immobilized of course) and chop you into tiny little pieces. You're only possible resistance to this would be Kid Omega's telekinesis, which he'll be struggling to use as he'll be under attack from Harry Dresden

We don't even have to leave the Mirror World to do what I'm saying we'll do - SpOck can harm Vader's reflection with the philosophers stone & it'll transmute the real version, or Mysterio can plant that tornado in the reflection's stomach to blow the real Vader to bits.

Unless we’re invisible, turns out Harry can do that pretty easily, it’s called a veil, and it hides you from view magically. Anyways, I thought you were going to put a tornado in my belly first by the time that doesn’t work you’ll be dead.

As for Dresden, we don't need to worry about him. He'll be blind & my team knows anything & everything he's going to do in this fight before he even knows he'll do it. We have total control of the battlefield & this entire maneuver won't take more than 10 seconds.

Actually, as it turns out, Midnighter’s Battle computer can’t predict magic, because it breaks physical laws that the battle computer needs. An example was when Eidolon, a magically empowered being let Midnighter hurt him terribly, where he should have been dead, and then magically healed himself, completely surprising Midnighter.

Again, why would Mysterio do that when he could just as easily jump out of a window or a shiny piece of metal? There is no foundation in Mysterio creating a tornado in Vader's stomach, something that the Weather Wizard only did once, while bloodlusted, nor jumping out of the eyes seems practical, especially when Mysterio is all about being unseen.

You answered your own question in this post when you said Mysterio is all about being unseen. Why would he jump out of the Mirror World to hurt your team when I've just shown he's fully capable of doing so while residing in an entirely different dimension?

Because he can’t do that from another dimension, it’s impossible, he would have to manipulate the Weather in the atmosphere.

There IS a foundation in Mysterio creating a tornado in Vader's stomach due to the fact that Mysterio knows what Vader is capable of thanks to the information given to us by S.H.I.E.L.D 30 minutes into our hour of prep, along with the fact that Kid Omega created a TP link & shared all the scenarios that the Battle Computer displayed of this fight, which would be millions of scenarios & possibilities.

If I can’t sense you in the mirror realm, you can’t communicate via TP either, so no Battle Computer.

In this case, planting a lethal storm inside the gut of a group of people who are here for the sole purpose of killing you (not just trying to put you in jail like Spider-Man normally would) is the easiest way of dispatching of them, especially when none of your team has a true resistance against this form of assault.

Your team doesn’t have a defense for magic, point? You don’t have a defense for Vader’s constructs short of being in another dimension. That cold field lets light in, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to see Captain Cold through it, which means that light, including ahrd light, can hit them, not to mention the force.

Also; Weather Wizard wasn't bloodlusted during Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge, he was just having a bad day - as the other Rogues were, and wanted to get rid of the idiots that stole their old gear.

Has the cold gun shown the ability to cover 60-100 ft tall men completely? To transmute him, you first have to transmute his ultimate shield first, which will give him plenty of time to step on you.

The Cold Gun specifically hasn't, but it'd still work if used on a portion of Greed's leg or something. Just shoot it, shatter it, and watch the giant fall.

However; that does point me to the powerful force that is Captain Cold's Cold Grenades:

As you can see in the above set of panels, a SINGLE Cold Grenade was able to encase the entirety of Iron Heights & some of the surrounding area in an iceberg. It would easily cover your giant team member, heck; it could catch your entire team in a single blast.

Or Vader grabs it with the force and shoves it back, that just puts you in a very bad spot

Harry uses a magnetism spell, he can easily duplicate this with the Staff of One (with much more potency) and rip all of the metal devices out of you're reach, including things like the Wand, the Cold Gun, Mirror Master's Gear, the T-Masks, etc. Without that, it will become a very short match.

The Weather Wand grants the user control over Earth's magnetic field. Weather Wizard went up against a Rogue named Magenta whose entire powerset relied on magnetism (she was like Magneto-lite) yet he made her feel pretty helpless during the Rogue War.

There's also the fact that SpOck & Mysterio are in another dimension so you can't steal their gear, and both Kid Omega & Sinister are surrounded by a field of Absolute Zero setup by SpOck during the prep phase, so anything you try to pull from their grip would just stop the moment it hit that field.

You’re right, but I don’t need to use magnetism. Also if it hit the field, they would have to reach out and grab it from the cold field, and we know what that does…

In any case, my tech heavy team is still very much armed & countering that attack should you get the chance to use it.

Still no defense for technology killing hex.

Once again, an elemental attack. Not a wise choice when I've got the Weather Wand. The thing is; since Mysterio's getting an entire month to practice with that thing all Weather will begin to defend him without him actively having to focus on it.

See, the climate protects him now, so trying to use lightning (the climate) against someone who the climate protects doesn't work. Also; if you're looking at that scan and saying that someone helped train him to do that, the "she" he's talking about is Blacksmith who has no formal training in anything regarding climate, Mardon used to just restrict himself due to Cold's Moral Code.

Can’t do that from another dimension.

Harry creates and controls a construct of a giant hand made of soulfire. He can utterly destroy you with something similar; soullfire (as implied) is the opposite of hellfire and burns at your soul.

That COULD MAYBE work if the Soulfire had a way of touching my team; remember two of them are in a different dimension while two of them are protected in a field of absolute zero.

Which does nothing against hard light, since light is able to pervade the cold field, hard light should be no different.

Harry shorts out all the technology in a room with a hex. Goodbye Tech!!! Of course I'll have to make sure I don't mess up the Omnitrix so I might have Norman get out of range, or focus the blast with the Staff of One.

That one is cool - but remember, he'd have to actually KNOW where my team is to do that, and at this point the battlefield is still covered in a thick fog, millions of Mirror Master illusions are running around, and Harry doesn't actually know that the abilities my team are using are via tech. He has no knowledge on any member of my team, while I've got entire dossiers on yours.

And he does, he has the Medusa Mask, which allows him to feel everyone on Earth, much more than your team.

It's hard to hit someone with a focused blast when you're blinded, your target is in another dimension, and you're under attack with illusions of your target flooding the battlefield.

It’s easy when you have the Third eye, or the Sight. This allows you to see all kinds of stuff, including auras, possible futures, and other dimensions, like the Mirror Realm, which it turns out I can visit with a nice spell.

You like your cold gun so much; I could always freeze you back

If you could hit me, then I'd just have Mysterio use the Weather Wand to create a heatwave to melt the ice, or SpOck could use his Pyrokinesis gained via the Dragon Talisman.

It doesn't, but you're attacking Vader first, so he'll have plenty of time to take them down. I can't post the scans now, but it took a psychically empowered Lois Lane, Hive Queen, and Superman to take him down, who he beat each alone, along with Hector Hammond while he was making people tear each other apart.So while you are trying to defend against the psychic assault, you're team will be in a rage trying to kill each other.

He went against foes that had to use either direct confrontation or psychic powers, the exact things that don't work against the Medusa Mask; however, I've got two members who would be unaffected by this because their in another dimension. You could TRY and manipulate a Phoenix powered Kid Omega, but the mask hasn't shown to work against anyone of that power level to my knowledge, especially with the buff's he has due to his gear.

Yes, but what level of empowerment, and how effective would he be at stopping your team from killing each other

There's also the fact that Dresden doesn't have a counter for being blinded in this fight, something easily done early on by Mysterio & his various duplicates. You seem to be forgetting that fact, it's really difficult to fight & fight accurately when you can't see anything & you're being attacked from another dimension.

You aren't superfast, so he kinda will.

Mysterio has the Rabbit Talisman, so he actually is super fast, he can go super sonic speeds with that thing. Plus he can be anywhere a reflective surface is, which is all over the entire battlefield.

Never supersonic, it’s visible to the human eye, it doesn’t even boost your reaction speeds, ask Tohru

He's got the speed, the maneuverability, and the equipment required to accomplish everything he needs to accomplish in a mere matter of seconds.

Of course, if you forget Vader’s supersonic reaction times, Harry’s “faster than vampire” speed.

He also can back up Vader's TP protection with the Staff of One.

I'm not attacking Vader w/TP so I don't see the point in this maneuver: P

He can also resurrect himself with the Staff of One, so good luck getting rid of him.

BFR him or the Staff to the Mirror World to prevent resurrection. If he does manage to resurrect, kill him the same way as before. If the Staff of One prevented all forms of death then it'd be an instant win for whatever teams had it because it's impossible for the user to die - which is false.

Yes, but can you do this before he counter attacks? He can remove all your tech with a two syllable word, how are you going to stop that?

He can just wave his Staff and watch you fall to pieces. And being morals off means he will do this as he wishes.

He can't see us, he can't sense us. We're attacking from a different dimension. He is completely out of his element in this situation & has no real chance of survival or a chance to fight back in all honesty.

I'm not immune, but I can disable it with relative ease, and put your very tech-heavy team out of the running.

Debunked.

Where?

Vader isn't the only one with TP protection, he can choke you out, block your attacks, and just destroy you.

Debunked.

Where?

If you could outduel Vader, I would be amazed.

No need to fight Vader in purely a sword fight, also no need to confront him in a physical match. Debunked.

You still haven’t shown anything getting past Vader’s defenses.

Will you do this before or after all your tech is gone, it takes one word, and you're attacking Vader first.

This entire attack can be done in mere seconds thanks to Mysterio's duplicates, super speed, and maneuverability. Our tech isn't going anywhere as I showed earlier. Debunked.

Have plenty of TP defense, so no.

Not after Vader & Harry get brought down in the first 3 - 5 seconds of this match.

You can’t move a kilometer in 3-5 seconds, especially not when Vader can sense and choke you out much faster.

Until Harry destroys the battle computer with a simple spell

Under the given circumstances he's not going to get the chance to do such, nor does he know we HAVE a Battle Computer, and he's still however far the starting distance is from my team due to Kid Omega having the Battle Computer for our team.

He does kinda see the far out tech you have, the spell isn’t targeting, it just wrecks everything tech-based.

Plus I provided plenty of counters for your plans to rid me of my tech.

Absolutely none for the hex.

Vader does, Harry does, and the storm in stomach, Greed and Osborn do.

  • Vader doesn't unless you can prove to me that the Ring can protect a lantern from absolute zero temperatures or mimic them.
    • I’ll work on that, but you can’t prove that Mysterio and SpOck are immune to force crush, which can take them out with a thought
  • Harry doesn't nor would he know to protect himself from such an attack before it could happen.
    • But Vader can protect him long enough to, and you have one person with superspeed, and Vader reacts to blaster bolts, jedi, and starships, which are all as afast or faster than the speed the Rabbit talisman grants.
  • Greed doesn't.
    • Except for regeneration that makes Deadpool look slow
  • Osborn doesn't unless one of his aliens does; however, he'd have to know to be that alien before the attack hit him in the 3 to 5 seconds it'll take my team to enact this plan.
    • You have one person with enhanced speed, that doesn’t make your whole team superfast.
  • Nobody on your team is immune to ol' Storm in Stomach.
    • None of your team is immune to the old construct through the face, magic, the Ebony Blade flying at superspeeds or phasing from Osborn.

If they get brought down before your team does, you're presuming you hit first, when you have no superhuman

They do get brought down before anyone on my team does for the following reasons:

  • The battlefield is set to my teams advantage due to the hour of prep beforehand.
    • You still have to start on the battlefield 1 km away
  • My team knows everything about your team due to Perk Information & Battle Computer.
    • Until half of it is in a different dimension, hope they have a good memory.
  • My team knows where your team will be even before your team can make those moves thanks to the Battle Computer.
    • Except for Harry’s magic, which the Battle Computer has trouble predicting
  • Mirror Master does have Super Speed thanks to the Rabbit Talisman & he can easily maneuver the battlefield due to Mirror Master's equipment granting him access & control over the Mirror World.
    • But he’s bringing SpOck, who has been clocked at 70 miles with his webshooters, you can’t leave him behind, you are only as fast as your slowest member.

My team is at a complete advantage in this scenario, our gear grants us the knowledge we need & the abilities to easily dispatch of your team without a hitch.

And my team can just dispatch you with a thought and a word; you really haven’t proved anything.

Vader is, considering Lanterns are immune to matter manip, plus he can sense you. Harry is, as he can just regen his eyes and the eyes of my other teammates.

It's not matter manipulation, nor is it actually harming the eye. Mirror Master's way of blinding is just blocking the basic function. If duplicates of Mysterio reside in the reflective surfaces of your eyes it prevents any light from entering them, thus it prevents the brain from processing what the eye is seeing. Nothing is actually "wrong" with the eye so there isn't anything to regenerate, nor is matter manipulation involved.

He can still sense you and your attacks, and are you doing this before or after everything else, the rabbit talisman doesn’t offer increased perception.

You're going to have to pull something big out of you're bag, because as of now, I don't see any reasons why Vader can't solo, nor Dresden. It's not so much you're team, it's just that you're gear is next to useless against the POWER OF THE DARK SIDE

Even the Power of the Dark Side won't help you survive this beatdown, Jac :)

You still haven’t shown me anything that can even damage this team.

Your Summary

  • My team knows everything about your team
    • Except for Harry
  • My team knows everything your team will do before they can do it
    • True, but they can’t react to it all, Vader cuts down people before they know what has happened, and once Dresden’s hex goes out, it won’t matter.
  • Two members of my team can't be touched due to the fact that they're in the Mirror World, the other two are surrounded in a field of absolute zero.
    • Until I tear a door there with Harry
  • You can't disable my tech, and I've provided the reasons why above.
    • No, you’ve stated why physical means can’t but nothing to stop the hex
  • Mysterio is super fast via Talisman & can create millions of himself as illusions in the prep phase to distract your team plus the fact that the arena is covered in a thick fog. Plus Mysterio can do what he needs to do w/o leaving the Mirror World.
    • He hasn’t shown the capability to do that, Vader can crush your dupes with a thought, or just you
  • Your entire team is blinded in the first second or two of the battle with absolutely no way to prevent it or grant yourself sight. You're fighting against an enemy you can't touch or see without knowledge of this enemy or the threat level they possess.
    • Sight,the force, the fact that you have to getto the Mirror World first. All these things make that null
  • You were in my trap the moment this battle began with no way to exit.
    • No I’m not
  • Greed & Osborne go down via Mindrape the moment Vader & Harry go down via reflection kills, transmuation, or storm in stomach.
    • Greed is a homunculus, a collection of souls, wearing a possessive demon mask, he can still hold up. They’re all invisible as well, so there goes reflection kills, and Greed lives in a world where transmutation is the name of the game. How is SpOck going to attack him from a different dimension.
  • My Summary

  • You still haven’t shown a way to prevent Harry’s “hexus” from taking out all your characters from the start, and it doesn’t need to be in character (morals off perk)
  • Your entire defense is prevalent on a cold field that light goes through, including hard light, and being in another dimension, which Harry can bridge the gap to
  • You haven’t given a way to actually damage Vader, or his shields, or get around his perceptions.

To total this up

  1. You are not fast enough to kill my team in under 10 seconds.
  2. You haven’t given a way to get past Vader yet.
  3. You have no defense against Dresden’s magic
  4. You have no defense against Vader’s constructs

How do I not win?

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VOTING TIME

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@jacthripper: Oh man, I still had more points to make, didn't realize your post was going to be the last post.

Oh well :|

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@thetruebarryallen: I had made a similar post to the one I just made on Monday, but it turned out i accidently deleted the post, and I didn't notice until Friday, I had a lot of other points to make too, kinda sad it ended where it did.

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@thetruebarryallen: I had made a similar post to the one I just made on Monday, but it turned out i accidently deleted the post, and I didn't notice until Friday, I had a lot of other points to make too, kinda sad it ended where it did.

Nobody has voted yet, you could add an extension to it if you'd like. It'd give both of us the time we wanted to get everything in.

Plus it looks like you made some new points about Harry's magic that you hadn't in your other posts, so it just looks like I have no way to counter them because I wouldn't be allowed to respond.

I also needed to address a misconception you had about the Red Lantern Ring & it's ability to create constructs.

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#27  Edited By mickey-mouse
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@jacthripper: Sounds good. I'll get my last & final post up in these next few days.

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#29  Edited By Jacthripper
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Sorry, been super busy studying for my Organic Chemistry final; I'll have my post up either tonight or tomorrow!

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#32  Edited By Gizmorino

Tag me for voting

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aand... i vote for......

.... ohh wait.. it's not done yet.

do tag me later

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@jacthripper: Alright - final post time. I am; however, going to ask that you don't bring in new factors to the debate. Part of the reason why I wanted to respond to your "last" post there was because you brought in some magic from Harry Dresden that you hadn't mentioned in any of your other posts, which would've made me look absolutely horrible and as if I had no counter for it.

Anyways, onto why I believe I'm the clear winner in this situation.

Problems With Your Argument

I'm going to address several things you've stated throughout this fight & give them their own little sections to organize it a bit.

1. Darth Vader | Why the Red Lantern Ring is Bad

Alright, this here is one of the biggies. You've been hammering into this debate over and over that Darth Vader is some unstoppable force user who when armed with a Red Lantern Ring will be creating constructs up the wazoo that'll put my team to shame, and that's where the problems lie.

Red Lanterns have the most trouble creating constructs, and only a handful of Red Lanterns are actually able to utilize them. Most Red Lanterns are so obsessed and filled with rage that once they're given the ring they manifest their rage in all out offensive attacks, spewing some sort of energy plasma/blood as their main form of attack.

However; you've got Vader trying to create a plethora of constructs as well as using the ring to create telepathic helmets for your entire team; which would be constructs.

While it was admirable that you believed Vader could create those helmets for the rest of your team, it's unlikely that he'd have the ability to given the type of ring you've given him. If he had a Green Lantern Ring or a Yellow Lantern Ring I'd be more accepting of your plan, but as it stands you picked the absolute worst ring for construct creation with the sole purpose of using it to create constructs.

It's a major flaw in your plan, and Vader doesn't have the experience or knowledge required to utilize construct creation to that degree, especially given the fact that he has the ring that's the absolute worst at creating constructs.

2. My Knowledge > Your Knowledge

You keep forgetting this, and it's a MAJOR component to this fight.

My team actually has a perk that's giving a full dossier on your team TO my team 30 minutes before this fight even begins, combined with a Battle Computer that can analyze these factors & help predict every move you're going to make before you make it (besides perhaps Harry, but we have knowledge that you have a powerful magic user on your team & won't allow him to interfere) which means we're prepared for this fight while you're only getting a random encounter.

We know what your team is capable of, we know what your team has for equipment, we know the threat levels of every member on your team.

You however; you don't even know who my team is on a name by name basis, you don't know what equipment we have, you don't know the nature of the equipment (magical, tech, straight up meta human abilities), you don't know what we can do, you don't know the traps we've set in place during the hour of preparation before you've gotten here, you know NOTHING.

You're acting; however, as if your team will know that we have members of our team residing in another dimension, as if you know that Harry will need to send out some hexes to destroy the technology we have, as if Harry will know what dimension we're in and that he'll actually be able to get into it, you're going under the assumption that your team has knowledge that it DOESN'T have.

If your team had the same level of preparation time and the same level of knowledge that my team had going into this fight then I might be more apt to believe you could win this & that your strategies hold weight in this situation, but they don't. Your team is facing a prepped team who knows everything about you while you're sitting there in a random encounter.

So as it stands; I'm just not believing you can do what you say you can do under these given conditions.

3. Weather Wizard's Wand & Tornadoes In Your Stomach

For some reason you keep bringing it up that Mysterio wouldn't go this route based off of another characters personality and showings, so I'm going to address all of your concerns about the subject.

What I’m saying is that Mardon had the wand for years, and used it once, I’m questioning why he would do it.

Mardon actually used it more than once, he references that he planted a storm in some girls stomach when he's fighting Magenta during the Rogues War, this happened before Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge meaning he's done it on more than one occasion.

You've also been neglecting the context of Weather Wizards traditional morals & who he normally fights.

  1. Weather Wizard is more often than not working with the Rogues, more specifically the Rogues under Captain Cold's commands. Cold has a strict no killing rule when it comes to women and children, heck, even when it comes to their actual foes they do their best to avoid killing them. Mardon wouldn't go around planting tornadoes in everyone's stomach because Cold wouldn't allow it, it goes against their code and Mardon respects Cold enough to follow that Cold.
  2. Villains generally never use their instant kill move against heroes when it comes to plot based comics. Imagine if the Wally West that we see here in the Battle Forums went around IMPing every single foe he ever faced while speed stealing them to oblivion, it'd be a boring book and the battles wouldn't be fun to watch. It also wouldn't be much of a challenge for the Rogues if Weather Wizard went around planting storms in all of their foes stomachs, it'd be a monotone book with boring battles.
  3. We're not even dealing with the actual Weather Wizard in this fight - we're dealing with Mysterio who knows everything & anything he needs to know about your team and their abilities/equipment with full knowledge that if they get their hands on him he's going to be killed or tortured or put through absolute hell. There is no reason he wouldn't take the easy route when it comes to fighting your team.

Possible, yes. Is it likely though? There are a great many other things he can do with the Wand, why the storm in stomach route? You also are in another dimension, unless that has changed suddenly, you can’t manipulate the Weather from another dimension.

It's incredibly likely - my team knows what your team can do, they know what your team is capable of and they know they don't have room for error when it comes to surviving this encounter.

As for Mysterio being in another dimension - you seemed to have ignored or possibly missed the scan highlighting the ability of the reflection kill, I'll post it again for good measure.

No Caption Provided

In the top left of that scan we see Mirror Master while in the Mirror World stabbing the cops reflection with a shard of glass. The consequences of this action can be seen in the top right of the scan, where the exact same thing is happening to the cop in the real world that is happening to his reflection.

This means that Mysterio is capable of harming the defenseless reflections that'll in return, hurt the real world counterparts. It's like some sort of magnificent mirror world voodoo.

Now with this being said there's no reason why Mirror Master can't plant a storm in the reflection of Vader (since the entire battlefield is made of reflective surfaces due to my prep) to harm the real version of Vader.

It's simple :)

He also is standing in the real world for that strike, unless he did it from within the mirror dimension, that doesn’t show he can do that outside of the dimension. Even if he could, Vader is standing in a personal force field, rocking reactions allowing him to dogfight at hundreds of mph and shred other craft. Unless that beam can go through his hard light constructs, that means nothing.

We can ignore that beam completely now in all honesty - the reflection kill pretty much removes any/all purpose for me to disarm you in the real world when I can just kill your reflection & then obtain the gear that'd assist you in surviving such an attack before Vader or anyone else could re-form.

So as it stands: Reflection Kills + Storms in Stomachs = Easy Victory for my team, but I'm going to go into all of your points and address them.

4. Responding To Your Comments/Counters/Concerns

I can't think of any more headers that I need for specific things, I'll just address all of your other general points and whatnot in here.

By that same token, you can’t telepathically communicate the battle computer to them. So everything coming from that would be gone.

You're absolutely right - I can't telepathically communicate with SpOck or Mysterio once they've entered the Mirror World, which is why the Battle Computer was being done before the fight when we were given information on your team.

They only need to remember a few short bits of information & what moves to make to dominate your team early on in this fight.

Again, precog/reaction and superspeed, you won’t hit Vader with a blast of any sort. Unless these blasts have actually shown some form of damage piercing hard light constructs or magic shields.

I discussed that I won't need to use the Mirror Gun to disarm your real world counterparts if I can just do it to your defenseless reflections who can't actually fight back, it's wonderful!

I’ll get into that later, for now, they start on the battlefield, what’s stopping Harry from disarming your tech from the start? It only takes a two syllable word to do that.

Several Reasons:

  1. We start 1 kilometer apart from each other according to your ruling (as host of this tournament) which means we're standing 3280.84 feet apart from each other at the start of this battle.
  2. Harry has no knowledge that my team even has technology on it; there is no reason for that to be his first move without knowing what he's going up against.
  3. Harry doesn't have a direct line of sight to my team due to the fog that Mysterio created with the Weather Wand during the prep time.
  4. Mysterio literally prepped to enter the mirror world the moment this fight began, I even stated that in my opening post.
  5. Mysterio only needs to pull the trigger on the Mirror Gun to teleport himself and any others into the Mirror World as shown during the Flash:Wonderland arc, something he did with Captain Cold to avoid a bloodlusted Jay Garrick.

You don't know about my tech nor do you have the time to actually disarm it given the situation.

Unless we’re invisible, turns out Harry can do that pretty easily, it’s called a veil, and it hides you from view magically. Anyways, I thought you were going to put a tornado in my belly first by the time that doesn’t work you’ll be dead.

Look at you - bringing in new factors, oh well.

If you were to go invisible it'd have to be your first move; however, you've already told me that one of your first moves is going to be an attempt at disarming my technology unless you've changed your mind on that.

There's also the fact that Harry has normal reaction times for a human; and he's going against Mysterio who has been amped with the Rabbit Talisman and the ability to transverse the battle field via the Mirror World; thankfully due to my prep the entire battlefield is a reflective surface meaning he's easy access.

Mysterio can target every reflection on your team at once & kill you all in one swift strike before you have the chance to react to the attack.

Actually, as it turns out, Midnighter’s Battle computer can’t predict magic, because it breaks physical laws that the battle computer needs. An example was when Eidolon, a magically empowered being let Midnighter hurt him terribly, where he should have been dead, and then magically healed himself, completely surprising Midnighter.

While the battle computer can't, we have knowledge of what your team can do. We know you've got a powerful magic user and we have information on your equipment/abilities thanks to the perk my team has.

We're not going into this without a clue of what could happen, we're prepared.

Because he can’t do that from another dimension, it’s impossible, he would have to manipulate the Weather in the atmosphere.

He can do it from another dimension, it seems you completely missed the purpose/point of the reflection kill scan. Mysterio can use the weather wand while in the Mirror World to harm the reflections of your team, thus causing the same damage/wounds to the real world counterparts.

If I can’t sense you in the mirror realm, you can’t communicate via TP either, so no Battle Computer.

You're right, there is no TP communication between Mysterio or SpOck w/the rest of my team while they're in the Mirror World. Good thing the battle computer was used during the prep stage of this.

Your team doesn’t have a defense for magic, point? You don’t have a defense for Vader’s constructs short of being in another dimension. That cold field lets light in, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to see Captain Cold through it, which means that light, including ahrd light, can hit them, not to mention the force.

This has two components to it - I'll address the magic and then the Cold Field.

As for my teams Magic resistance, you're right. We don't have any natural resistances to magic, we have the Ebony Blade which can absorb magical energies/cut through magical barriers, but we don't have another magic user to content with Harry's spells.

The good thing here; however, is that Harry's spells won't have an effect on those whom he can't target. You're forgetting that you're being blinded from the start of this battle due to the versatility that the Mirror Master equipment gives Mysterio. It wouldn't be a 10 point High Tier item along the likes of the Lantern Rings or Medusa Mask if it wasn't a powerful tool.

If my team was going head to head with your team in a direct confrontation in the same dimensional plane, I'd be more worried, but as it stands only Mister Sinister and Kid Omega are in danger of being assaulted by magic should Harry get the chance.

As for the Cold Field - it stops anything/everything trying to enter it. The light we see within the cold field in the comics is the light that got trapped inside before the field was created/during it's creation. If they were going to artistically draw the real physics behind it then we'd always just see black orbs whenever the Cold Field was used.

The point here is that comic art and comics in general don't do the best job when dealing with actual physics.

Or Vader grabs it with the force and shoves it back, that just puts you in a very bad spot

Vader can't freely put things in the Mirror World. Mysterio controls what comes in/out. If this wasn't the case then EVERYONE in the DCU would fall into the Mirror World if they stepped onto a reflective surface, or fell into one.

It just doesn't work that way.

You’re right, but I don’t need to use magnetism. Also if it hit the field, they would have to reach out and grab it from the cold field, and we know what that does…

The only things within the Cold Field are Kid Omega & Mister Sinister, you can't pull anything out of that field nor can you push anything into it. Kid Omega and Mister Sinster wouldn't be dumb enough to run into their own field either.

Still no defense for technology killing hex.

  1. Hex can't cross dimensions
  2. Harry is killed within the first 10 seconds of the battle thanks to reflection kills
  3. Harry doesn't know the abilities my team is using are related to technology
  4. I already evaded your first "technology hex" that you planned on using at the start of this battle.

Harry is a normal human, with no knowledge of my team, with normal reaction times. He doesn't have the knowledge or the speed/abilities required to do what you're saying he'll do.

Which does nothing against hard light, since light is able to pervade the cold field, hard light should be no different.

Once again, artists are bad at drawing physics.

And he does, he has the Medusa Mask, which allows him to feel everyone on Earth, much more than your team.

So if he can feel everyone then he realizes that there are two people that he doesn't recognize in the area. While this might help Harry deal with the illusions he has no knowledge of Mysterio or SpOck, but he does feel the presences of Kid Omega & Mister Sinister.

This would mean that your team is going to seriously underestimate my team, because you think we've only got two members, if you even get the chance to encounter Kid Omega & Mister Sinister before my stealthy Mysterio & SpOck finish you off.

It’s easy when you have the Third eye, or the Sight. This allows you to see all kinds of stuff, including auras, possible futures, and other dimensions, like the Mirror Realm, which it turns out I can visit with a nice spell.

More new things in your "final" post, woohoo!

The "sight" might prevent Harry from being 100% blinded, but it does nothing to help Vader, Greed, or Osborne. Harry; however, wouldn't be able to do everything you're saying he can do in the time given.

So far - here's what you've said Harry will do before my team can do anything:

  • Use a hex to try and destroy/break all of my teams Technology
  • Use a spell to learn my teams names
  • Use a spell to turn himself (and your team?) invisible
  • Use the Sight to learn where the rest of my team is (without knowledge that there's even more to my team than Kid Omega & Mister Sinister) and then...
  • .... Use a spell to travel to that dimension.

Now you're saying he'll accomplish ALL of this before Mysterio (who has PREPPED for this encounter) is going to travel into the Mirror World (pull of a trigger) and use the Weather Wand to implant storms in the reflections of your teams stomachs, thus killing the real world counterparts.

Your plan doesn't add up, you're saying you can do more than you can actually do in the time given here, man.

Yes, but what level of empowerment, and how effective would he be at stopping your team from killing each other

First I'm going to address one of your earlier statements, because I did some reading on the New 52 Psycho Pirate (who thankfully only appeared in like two issues in the New 52 ) and there's some context to what you were saying he did.

It doesn't, but you're attacking Vader first, so he'll have plenty of time to take them down. I can't post the scans now, but it took a psychically empowered Lois Lane, Hive Queen, and Superman to take him down, who he beat each alone, along with Hector Hammond while he was making people tear each other apart.So while you are trying to defend against the psychic assault, you're team will be in a rage trying to kill each other.

So you said that Psycho Pirate took down Lois Lane, Hive Queen, Superman, AND Hector Hammond in battle - but there's more to this than meets the eye:

  1. Hector Hammond and Hive Queen had been fighting EACHOTHER before Psycho Pirate came into the picture. Hammond seriously wounded Hive Queen and sustained incredible levels of injury himself, they were both severely weakened BEFORE Psycho Pirate entered the fight.
  2. Superman has no psychic abilities, he might have SOME psychic defenses but nothing noteworthy.
  3. Lois Lane had JUST developed her powers and had no knowledge of how to use them

So that makes me question Harry's ACTUAL telepathic abilities; especially against an Omega Mutant who is a praised telepathic in Xavier's school, who is now under possession of a fragment of the phoenix force.

For those of you who don't know how powerful Kid Omega's telepathy is - here's some measurements.

No Caption Provided

He thinks 10,000,000,000 brilliant thoughts per second, Professor X & Emma Frost both are impressed by this and admit that they can't even keep him distracted with their own thoughts.

He's also broken through the psychic defenses of Rachel Grey, and staged a revolt without Emma Frost or Professor X knowing about what was going on until it was finally happening, and they couldn't telepathically defeat him. It took the combined might of the Stepford Cuckoos on a power enhancing drug known as Kick AND the power of the Cerebro to bring Quire down, and that's WITHOUT the phoenix force.

I believe that Kid Omega is more than enough of a challenge for Dresden's Medusa Mask, and with his enhancements (Rooster Talisman AND the Southern Cross Cane) his telekinesis far surpasses Vader's force abilities.

Kid Omegas Psychic Ability > Harry Dresden's

Never supersonic, it’s visible to the human eye, it doesn’t even boost your reaction speeds, ask Tohru

Shendu was able to fly across the United States in an incredibly short period of time, the Rabbit Talisman is the ONLY talisman that grants super speed, the Rooster only grants telekinesis.

Even if reaction speeds aren't boosted Mysterio has more than enough speed to harm your team from the Mirror World.

Of course, if you forget Vader’s supersonic reaction times, Harry’s “faster than vampire” speed.

Vader's reaction times are pointless in this situation since he isn't directly being attacked, the reflection of Vader's is being attacked. Vader has no defense against this kind of attack nor does he know it's coming.

Same goes for Harry, he can't react to an attack that's hurting his reflection, something he isn't expecting at all.

Yes, but can you do this before he counter attacks? He can remove all your tech with a two syllable word, how are you going to stop that?

I already explained why your whole tech hex blitz was a failure and wouldn't work, plus the fact that Harry wouldn't think or know to do such a thing at the start of the battle.

You still haven’t shown anything getting past Vader’s defenses.

You still seem to ignore the reflection kill ability.

You can’t move a kilometer in 3-5 seconds, especially not when Vader can sense and choke you out much faster.

Looks like you absolutely forgot the fact that my team has access to the Mirror World and can travel in/out of any reflective surface, which is the entire battlefield thanks to my prep.

Kid Omegas Phoenix enhanced, Rooster Talisman enhanced, Southern Cross Cane enhanced TK > Vader's baseline un-enhanced Force TK

He does kinda see the far out tech you have, the spell isn’t targeting, it just wrecks everything tech-based.

We've gone over this:

  • Harry doesn't see my tech - we begin 1km apart.
  • There is a THICK fog between my team and your team, such a thick fog that the people of Keystone (including Flash) couldn't see nearly 5 feet in front of them when Weather Wizard was fighting Flash.
  • My team is entering the Mirror World the MOMENT this battle begins, we've just got to pull the trigger on the gun (which Mysterio is prepped to do) and we're there, and Mysterio has enhanced speed due to the Rabbit Talisman. As a backup measure Kid Omega could use his TK to pull the trigger at the start of the match to even further prevent a blitz.
  • You haven't shown anything to prove that even if Harry COULD get a hex off in the required time (which he can't) that it'd hit the targets in question or if it even has the radius to REACH my team.

Absolutely none for the hex.

PLENTY for the hex.

I’ll work on that, but you can’t prove that Mysterio and SpOck are immune to force crush, which can take them out with a thought

First off, they're not going to harmed by the force when they're in another dimension, and furthermore, Kid Omegas TK outclasses Vader's Force.

But Vader can protect him long enough to, and you have one person with superspeed, and Vader reacts to blaster bolts, jedi, and starships, which are all as afast or faster than the speed the Rabbit talisman grants.

Vader has absolutely NO idea where the attack is coming from, nor does he know what he needs to protect Harry from. There's also no possible way that Vader could protect their reflections since they reside in a different dimension and this is an attack that NOBODY on your team has ever experienced or has any knowledge about.

You're pretty much in the dark here, man.

Except for regeneration that makes Deadpool look slow

Even if Greed's regeneration was strong enough to bring him back from such an attack he'd be the ONLY survivor, at which point he'll be swiftly taken out by any number of attacks such as that good ol' Mind Rape from Kid Omega.

You have one person with enhanced speed, that doesn’t make your whole team superfast.

Mysterio's physical enhanced speed due to the Talisman is fast enough for him to kill the reflections before your team knows what is going on. SpOck is only being brought to the Mirror World should Mysterio need help for anything (which he won't) or if we just want to overkill your team with Cold's Gun or Doctor Alchemy's Philosopher Stone.

Kid Omega surpasses your teams speed with his psychic ability, his thoughts and mental attacks are all he needs.

None of your team is immune to the old construct through the face, magic, the Ebony Blade flying at superspeeds or phasing from Osborn.

Vader can't create constructs because Red Lantern rings have a habit of being terrible for construct creation, the Ebony Blade can be stopped by the Absolute Zero field surrounding Kid Omega & Mister Sinister, or Kid Omega can stop it mid flight via TK.

Osborn is a nonfactor and can be crushed by Kid Omegas TK and will die the moment Mysterio does the mass reflection kill.

You still have to start on the battlefield 1 km away

As do you.

Until half of it is in a different dimension, hope they have a good memory.

There isn't much to remember seeing as your team can't do anything to protect yourselves from this attack in the time given. It's not like this is an hour long battle.

Except for Harry’s magic, which the Battle Computer has trouble predicting

My team still has knowledge of Harry's magic & what it can do, and thus will eliminate him in the mass reflection kill blitz at the start of this match.

But he’s bringing SpOck, who has been clocked at 70 miles with his webshooters, you can’t leave him behind, you are only as fast as your slowest member.

SpOck isn't needed for any of the reflection kill tactics, he's just there for overkill. Mysterio could also just grab his hand and run w/him.

And my team can just dispatch you with a thought and a word; you really haven’t proved anything.

No, they can't. I've explained why your tactics won't work, repeating them over and over won't make them work unless you prove you can get by my countermeasures, which you haven't.

He can still sense you and your attacks, and are you doing this before or after everything else, the rabbit talisman doesn’t offer increased perception.

The duplicates can work independently of the real world version, Mysterio just needs to enter the Mirror World and they'll do it themselves.

You still haven’t shown me anything that can even damage this team.

I've shown plenty, you're just choosing to ignore it as evidenced by the fact that you didn't mention ANYTHING about the reflection kill.

Battle Summary // Conclusions

My plans have changed since the start of this battle, I'll admit that - plus some parts got confusing or lost in translation during our debate so I'm going to sum it all up here.

For those wondering WHY some things were changed mid debate, it's because the Battle Computer allows me to prep for situations/encounters before they actually happen, but in the real world I had no idea what Jac was going to have his team do before he posted it.

Prep Summary

  • Mysterio uses Mirror Master's equipment to make as many hard light duplicates of himself as he possibly can. Mirror Master was able to fill Central City with duplicates in a matter of seconds, given the fact that Mysterio has an entire hour to replicate himself the battlefield will be flooded in Mysterio replicas.
  • Kid Omega creates a telepathic link with the team - they'll use this link to communicate with one another.
  • SpOck uses the Philosophers Stone to transmute as much of the battlefield into reflective glass as he can; however, Oa already looks rather reflective.
  • The real Mysterio then uses Weather Wizards Wand to create an incredibly thick fog across the battlefield.
  • Kid Omega will use the information on your team to make the most of the Battle Computer - having it analyze any & every battle possibility in this fight.
  • Kid Omega will share these possibilities via telepathic link; thus my team also knows what moves you'll be making throughout the fight.
  • Kid Omega will access the fragment of the Phoenix Force within the Phoenix Blade to further augment his telepathic & telekinetic abilities.
  • SpOck will create a field of absolute zero around my team with the Cold Gun.
  • Mysterio & SpOck will use their Snake Talisman & BP Gear [ respectively ] to go invisible.
  • Mysterio & SpOck will prepare to enter the Mirror World as the fight begins.

Battle Summary

  • Mysterio & SpOck enter the Mirror World the MOMENT the battle begins after Mysterio pulls the trigger on the gun with his Super Speed thanks to the Rabbit Talisman or Kid Omega uses his super fast TK (remember how fast his mind moves/processes things) to pull it for him.
  • Mysterio's duplicates in the Mirror World blind your team by entering their eyes via the Mirror World, they do this while Mysterio works on using the reflection kill ability.
  • Mysterio uses the weather wand to plant storms in the stomachs of the reflections to reflection kill blitz your team.
  • While this is going on Kid Omega has been assaulting your team with Telepathy & TK. He can attack their minds with his OP telepathy and disarm most of your team (such as Harry with his Staff of One or Vader's Ebony Blade) of their equipment. The Medusa Mask may help weaken psychic energy but it doesn't eliminate it all instantly, nor does it nullify them or else a severely weakened Hive Queen & Hector Hammond along with an inexperienced Lois Lane wouldn't have been able to use their psychic abilities to harm Psycho Pirate.
  • If anyone survives the reflection kills - which only looks like Greed due to his regen - then Kid Omega will mentally shut him down to defeat him.

Concluding Thoughts

You had some powerful items and some powerful team members, but without knowledge of my team and the fact that I had prep it really put you at a disadvantage.

Many of your counters seem baseless, such as Harry entering the Mirror World (assuming he could do so before he was blitz killed) with magic without actually knowing my team had the ability to go to other dimensions or the fact that they were using that ability to defeat you. Same goes with the technology hex at the start of the match, Harry doesn't have knowledge of my teams equipment, he can't even see his target, nor does he have the speed to pull the attack off.

The construct idea fell apart when I realized that Red Lantern rings are terribly bad at creating constructs, only a handful of the RLC can even use constructs, yet that was a big portion of your argument.

After you get your last post up it'll be left to the voters, so best of luck to you, and may the best debater win!

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magnablue

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SightlessReality

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@hylian: Jac has one more post I believe.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@hylian: Jac has one more post I believe.

Indeed he does - and that might change your mind so come back & vote once Jac gets his finale up :)

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Jacthripper

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@thetruebarryallen: I'll get my post up hopefully tomorrow, if I don't, I don't want to slow down the tournament any further, so I'll have it go to voting as it is now.

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Jacthripper

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@thetruebarryallen: I was not able to get my post up (nor will I be) I apologize for ending the debate this way, and I'll let it go to voting. It's been a blast! The vote stands now

TTBA-1

Jac- 0

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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frozen

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#44 frozen  Moderator

TTBA gets my vote, will explain later.

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johnfrank120

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If I'm allowed to vote, I'm voting TTBA as he provided overall better points and countered Jac's better, but it was a close debate and both sides did well.

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ancient_god

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If I'm allowed to vote, I'm voting TTBA as he provided overall better points and countered Jac's better, but it was a close debate and both sides did well.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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Current Votes

TTBA - 4

Jac - 0

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Jacthripper

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@thetruebarryallen: Looks like you win, I'll get up round 2 either today or tomorrow!

Good debate!

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Gizmorino

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#49  Edited By Gizmorino
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