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#1 Posted by Nw52 (159 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Green Arrow vs Brock Rumlow, Batroc and Frank Castle

Round 1:

- Everyone is unarmed

- MCU team fight him one at a time and can tap in or out of the fight

Round 2:

- MCU team is unarmed

- Green Arrow has bow for CQC

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#2 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

Batroc held his own against cap for a minute, And with the others here I think the team can win round 2, arrow wins round 1 though

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#3 Posted by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie both. Though I am basing my opinion of Frank on a few videos I've seen of him from S2.

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#4 Posted by BreakOfDawn (1626 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie. Pretty sure Cap was toying with Batroc considering the tone of the scene.

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#5 Edited by IndomitableRegal (15675 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver in both, with more difficulty in the second round.

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#6 Posted by Psy-Scarlet (513 posts) - - Show Bio

Team

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#7 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

In an even fight frank has a chance at soloing, I mean he did keep up for a while with season 2 daredevil

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#8 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25855 posts) - - Show Bio

Team probably loses.

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#9 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

In an even fight frank has a chance at soloing, I mean he did keep up for a while with season 2 daredevil

Ehh. No chance. Frank consistently struggles with even the lowest form of fodder.

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#10 Edited by GateOfBabylon (3697 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 goes to Oliver very easily.

R2 is much tougher. I could see MCU Team taking it possibly due to great durability from Batroc and Frank. Maybe I'll give it to Ollie just 6/10.

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#11 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: with all the season 2 feats including the Russian weight lifters scene he has a chance. I’m not saying it’s for sure tho, I’d say like 3/10

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao at Frank solo'ing

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#13 Edited by Helloman (28587 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank solos. Lol at him not soloing.

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#14 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: with all the season 2 feats including the Russian weight lifters scene he has a chance. I’m not saying it’s for sure tho, I’d say like 3/10

That's not even a good feat. He was outmatched by some random jocks in h2h combat and relied on using his surroundings for a victory. He approached 3 random cops in unarmed combat and struggled. Purely unarmed I'll say he is around Wild Dog's level, just with better damage soak, he is not beating Ollie. Not even 1/100

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#15 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: okkk.. chill out dude it’s just my opinion Jesus

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#16 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: okkk.. chill out dude it’s just my opinion Jesus

Chill out? What?

I just replied to your comment...

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#17 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: ok.. And no one’s making you have a temper tantrum because someone says green arrow has a chance at losing a fight. I was very respectful about your opinion and was looking to have a mature debate.. but no..

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#18 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: and that so called “random jock” is actually a very highly trained Assassin named “the Russian” who has superhuman strength, well known in the comics as well.

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#19 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: ok.. And no one’s making you have a temper tantrum because someone says green arrow has a chance at losing a fight. I was very respectful about your opinion and was looking to have a mature debate.. but no..

Dude, what are you on about? No one is having a temper tantrum, I have no idea what you are on about. I simply stated that I disagree with your opinion, or is that not ok to do?

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#20 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: and that so called “random jock” is actually a very highly trained Assassin named “the Russian” who has superhuman strength, well known in the comics as well.

He was never confirmed to be The Russian. He was just a Russian, who happened to be jacked.

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#21 Edited by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: You can have an opinion/disagree with me and not be a complete dick about it. Like you could you know, make a actual argument about the reasons why Ollie wins and I’ll say why I think franks could win. You saying “frank doesn’t have one chance, not 1/1000” doesn’t help, it just shows that your being ignorant. I’m 100% up for a civil debate

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#22 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: You can have an opinion/disagree with me and not be a complete dick about it. Like you could you know, make a actually argument about the reasons why Ollie wins and I’ll say why I think franks could win. You saying “frank doesn’t have one chance, not 1/1000” doesn’t help, it just shows that your being ignorant. I’m 100% up for a civil debate

How the hell was I a dick about it? I don't think Frank could beat Oliver 1/100, does that make me a dick?

I simply stated that Punisher was unimpressive.

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#23 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: Well that’s just the thing, you completely shut down the idea without giving an actual reason why. And I never once said something bad towards Oliver, like you did frank. Like I’m not gonna say “Oliver is overrated” or something of the sort. I’m gonna give actual facts and reasoning instead of shutting down a different opinion

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#24 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

In an even fight frank has a chance at soloing, I mean he did keep up for a while with season 2 daredevil

How does Frank solo? Him keeping up with an early S2 Matt doesn't support this claim considering Oliver with S1 and before S1 feats could beat Matt at that point.....

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#25 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: Well, I disagree, and Matt in his prime could beat Oliver in his prime, soooo.. And I said Frank has a 2/10 chance.

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#26 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: Well, I disagree, and Matt in his prime could beat Oliver in his prime, soooo.. And I said Frank has a 2/10 chance.

Well looking at this objectively what has Matt done that Oliver couldn't? His feat against Elektra is really no different from his feat against Damien with the only exception being that Oliver won against Damien while Matt held her off for a while.

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#27 Posted by Slade-Prime (1275 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver both rounds.

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#28 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol what

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#29 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: I agree the first fight was stalemate with elektra even though it was unexpected, but the second fight matt had his normal gear and was ready. and he wasn’t even trying to hurt her and didn’t get tagged once if I remember correctly, at the same time which is an insane feat to say the least.

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#30 Edited by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar said:

@danieldaripper: I agree the first fight was stalemate with elektra even though it was unexpected, but the second fight matt had his normal gear and was ready. and he wasn’t even trying to hurt her and didn’t get tagged once if I remember correctly, at the same time which is an insane feat to say the least.

I don't think it was a stalemate considering Matt was on the ground helpless up until Danny came in to save him. To be fair, Elektra wasn't trying as much either. Their second fight was more like weird foreplay.

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#31 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Green Arrow
  2. Team MCU, Batroc is too much of a physical powerhouse, and with the assistance of Frank & Batroc I see the Team landing more hits and putting him down first.
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#32 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: No she was going full out second fight and he wasn’t even trying to hurt her like I said. The only time he was on the ground in the first fight was when she had her swords which was a significant reach advantage and he couldn’t do anything about it. All she did was kick him into the wall too. I definitely wouldn’t call that as a win as he was dancing around her the whole fight basically except when she got a lucky kick in

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#33 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: and also in the first fight he was more or less trying to figure out who it actually was that he was fighting because he was confused. Because it Felt to him like it was Elektra but it didn’t seem like it because she was brainwashed and not in her right mind

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#34 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar:

No she was going full out second fight and he wasn’t even trying to hurt her like I said. The only time he was on the ground in the first fight was when she had her swords which was a significant reach advantage and he couldn’t do anything about it. All she did was kick him into the wall too. I definitely wouldn’t call that as a win as he was dancing around her the whole fight basically except when she got a lucky kick in

Loading Video...

Matt is literally smiling as he's in a choke hold, clearly Elektra isn't going all out if that is his reaction to being choked out by a superhuman.... Even Elektra is smiling so this only further reinforces the idea of this just being some weird foreplay.

You're treating their fight as if it were boxing. Unlike in an all out fight in boxing you can play keep away for the entire match and be crowned as the winner. Elektra may have not landed more hits but her attacks were clearly more effective than Matt's and during so Matt was downed and helpless.

and also in the first fight he was more or less trying to figure out who it actually was that he was fighting because he was confused. Because it Felt to him like it was Elektra but it didn’t seem like it because she was brainwashed and not in her right mind

This would be a good point if this had happened during the fight. This happened only after Matt had lost so it this doesn't help your point.

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#35 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: like I said.. the first fight he was caught very off guard, and hadn’t fought in a long time. He was not only rusty, but he was also trying to get a read on who it was at the same time. Because he can usually tell who it is he’s fighting right away. As well as that, he was not in his gear, also being at a reach disadvantage. With all those factors it’s an insane feat that he got out alive.. I could only name a handful of H2h characters that could do that as well as matt did.

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#36 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: like I said.. the first fight he was caught very off guard, and hadn’t fought in a long time. He was not only rusty, but he was also trying to get a read on who it was at the same time. Because he can usually tell who it is he’s fighting right away. As well as that, he was not in his gear, also being at a reach disadvantage. With all those factors it’s an insane feat that he got out alive.. I could only name a handful of H2h characters that could do that as well as matt did.

I guess your point about being caught off guard is fair but seriously doubt his gear would've made a huge difference. His armor would allow him to take a couple of more hits but as we've seen before lesser foes than Elektra have worn Matt out while in the armor. Billy clubs would've given him range but he's not going untagged forever.

Why would he be trying to read someone's identity during a fight? He's never done it before and usually does that before the fight even starts (which he doesn't not have the liberty of during that fight) or after (just like when he defeated that young Hand ninja).

I think you're forgetting that he would've been killed if not for Danny.

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#37 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: His billy club would've probably helped him win. She had her swords he was at a huge disadvantage

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#38 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: And he does have the liberty of reading a person during a fight, its how he fought the hand ninjas. And theirs proof he was trying to read elektra because he said her name mid-way through the fight.

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#39 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar:

His billy club would've probably helped him win. She had her swords he was at a huge disadvantage

How? Even with the billy club he lacks the damage output to actually put her down for good. Not even an iron fist could keep her down for long.

And he does have the liberty of reading a person during a fight, its how he fought the hand ninjas. And theirs proof he was trying to read elektra because he said her name mid-way through the fight.

What does reading a person even do for him.... Knowing their identity isn't gonna help in a fight. He said her name when he was downed and about to being cut down.... That's not midway.

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#40 Posted by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: because it would render her swords useless because he has something to block them with.. he doesn’t need them either way to put her down tho. In a H2h fight where he’s going all out trying to hurt her she would be ruined. He was reading her because he thought it was her but it didn’t feel like it, that’s kinda the whole point of the scene which is him finding out that she is still alive. And what do you mean “not even iron fist” . Iron fist is not on matt or Electra’s level I wouldn’t expect him to beat either of them. He couldn’t when elektra was just toying with him to get through the concrete, and Matt absolutely rekt him before jessica jones stopped it before matt messed up Danny even more

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#41 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@deutschkurzhaar:

because it would render her swords useless because he has something to block them with..

This is what you said here:

And he does have the liberty of reading a person during a fight, its how he fought the hand ninjas. And theirs proof he was trying to read elektra because he said her name mid-way through the fight.

You said a person when you meant weapons.... In which yes he does try to track weapons but never actually a person cause what would be the point. At this point your just flip flopping your points.

he doesn’t need them either way to put her down tho

It'd give him a better chance but I still don't see him winning.

In a H2h fight where he’s going all out trying to hurt her she would be ruined.

He was going all out. In the first fight when he didn't know who she was and still couldn't put her down.

He was reading her because he thought it was her but it didn’t feel like it, that’s kinda the whole point of the scene which is him finding out that she is still alive.

After the fight once again.... During the fight he had no idea who his opponent was and was going all out to win.

And what do you mean “not even iron fist” . Iron fist is not on matt or Electra’s level I wouldn’t expect him to beat either of them.

I meant as in the actual chi punch. If that couldn't put her down then neither is Matt.

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#42 Edited by DeutschKurzhaar (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: You said a person when you meant weapons.... In which yes he does try to track weapons but never actually a person cause what would be the point. At this point your just flip flopping your points.

He tracks everything he can, like when he fights hand ninjas he tracks their heartbeats and swords movements since they don't make physical sound with their body.

He was going all out. In the first fight when he didn't know who she was and still couldn't put her down.

He was not going all out the first fight. How would he be going all out if she has a massive advantage???, either way its not relevant, he was at a severe disadvantage. Lol at you even trying to argue that because He literally had no way to get to her because of the swords so he was on defense the whole fight. Imagine yourself in the same situation.. you would be on defense the whole time too. There is literally nothing he could do. It wasn't a fair fight perioddd.

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#43 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: I don't think Oliver's fights with Damien are the same as Matt's fights with Elektra...

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#44 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: You said a person when you meant weapons.... In which yes he does try to track weapons but never actually a person cause what would be the point. At this point your just flip flopping your points.

He tracks everything he can, like when he fights hand ninjas he tracks their heartbeats and swords movements since they don't make physical sound with their body.

He was going all out. In the first fight when he didn't know who she was and still couldn't put her down.

He was not going all out the first fight. How would he be going all out if she has a massive advantage???, either way its not relevant, he was at a severe disadvantage. Lol at you even trying to argue that because He literally had no way to get to her because of the swords so he was on defense the whole fight. Imagine yourself in the same situation.. you would be on defense the whole time too. There is literally nothing he could do. It wasn't a fair fight perioddd.

This is what you've been saying before though....

And theirs proof he was trying to read elektra because he said her name mid-way through the fight.

He was reading her because he thought it was her but it didn’t feel like it, that’s kinda the whole point of the scene which is him finding out that she is still alive.

but he was also trying to get a read on who it was at the same time. Because he can usually tell who it is he’s fighting right away.

Which is completely different from just tracking their heartbeat which you're saying now in which yes he does track heartbeats and weapons. So now your point collapsed upon itself because originally you were trying to use him trying to read Elektra as a way to say that he was at a disadvantage but now you're saying he's just tracking heartbeats which isn't a disadvantage at all since that how he normally fights to begin with...

Why would her advantages mean he's not trying.... His mind set doesn't all of sudden change because there is a weapon in the fight.... If anything a weapon would force him to try harder as a way to compensate for it.

You see the thing is skill wasn't the problem.... His physicals were, he can stagger her sure but he was never gonna actually put her down.... You act as if he was on the defense the entire time when in reality he wasn't. We've seen him on the offense a lot.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Matt was outhitting which is kinda hard if he was completely on defense in which the gifs shows otherwise.

Like I said this isn't boxing, all matches can't be fair.... If Oliver was able to beat someone just like Elektra (that being Damien) then why is Matt better than him? If anything I'd argue Damien was better by the finale due to his Havenrok amp.

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#45 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: I don't think Oliver's fights with Damien are the same as Matt's fights with Elektra...

If you want to go through why they are comparable I will later but short version is Damien scales to much weaker totem users who have replicated Elektra's strength feats, Damien has bullet timed both with TK and with pure speed, has durability comparable to Elektra, and should be able to replicate Elektra's feat against the 10 Hand ninjas (ignoring the darkness) by scaling him to Malcolm.

Not to mention he was further amped by the finale where Oliver also beat him in unarmed combat.

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#46 Posted by the_wspanialy (3915 posts) - - Show Bio

I seriously doubt Ollie can take all of them at once. Frank's durability alone would be a problem.

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#47 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: I kinda skipped Arrow S4 in its entirely due to the quality. Its to my understanding though that Dhark lost hid magic in the finale which is how Oliver managed to beat him, Dhark also notes when Team Arrow saves his family that Oliver could not defeat him when he had his magic.

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#48 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper: I kinda skipped Arrow S4 in its entirely due to the quality. Its to my understanding though that Dhark lost hid magic in the finale which is how Oliver managed to beat him, Dhark also notes when Team Arrow saves his family that Oliver could not defeat him when he had his magic.

He didn't lose his magic, Oliver just learned to channel his light magic to stop Damien from using his TK on him. I don't remember him saying Oliver couldn't beat him, I'll try to look for the quote but he might've been talking about his TK.

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#49 Posted by the_wspanialy (3915 posts) - - Show Bio

@asphaltairborne said:

@danieldaripper: I kinda skipped Arrow S4 in its entirely due to the quality. Its to my understanding though that Dhark lost hid magic in the finale which is how Oliver managed to beat him, Dhark also notes when Team Arrow saves his family that Oliver could not defeat him when he had his magic.

He didn't lose his magic, Oliver just learned to channel his light magic to stop Damien from using his TK on him. I don't remember him saying Oliver couldn't beat him, I'll try to look for the quote but he might've been talking about his TK.

Darhk did say so, but to be fair he's been relying on his magic in their previous fights. In the episode asphalt mentioned Oliver was winning, as long as the fight was purely h2h.

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#50 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5314 posts) - - Show Bio

@danieldaripper said:
@asphaltairborne said:

@danieldaripper: I kinda skipped Arrow S4 in its entirely due to the quality. Its to my understanding though that Dhark lost hid magic in the finale which is how Oliver managed to beat him, Dhark also notes when Team Arrow saves his family that Oliver could not defeat him when he had his magic.

He didn't lose his magic, Oliver just learned to channel his light magic to stop Damien from using his TK on him. I don't remember him saying Oliver couldn't beat him, I'll try to look for the quote but he might've been talking about his TK.

Darhk did say so, but to be fair he's been relying on his magic in their previous fights. In the episode asphalt mentioned Oliver was winning, as long as the fight was purely h2h.

Ah I see.