Green Arrow(cw) vs daredevil(616)

Arrow is out of character

Matt is in character

Arrow has only regular arrows

Matt has standard equipment

No prep for either

Random encounter

Fight takes place in hells kitchen at night

They are relatively even. Daredevil's radar sense means he won't ever get tagged by Oliver's arrows, so when it comes down to CQC it depends on if Green Arrow is in jobber-mode or not. Matt could never defeat somebody like Damian Darhk in melee, let alone after only trading blows for a mere 20 seconds, but Matt also wouldn't lose to Anarky. They have similar will power, but Oliver's body itself is a lot more durable. Other physical stats are similar besides agility, and Oliver has never fought an acrobat as skilled as Daredevil, so that's something.

@nickzambuto: What makes Darhk so skilled in melee that Matt couldn't beat him?

It's not that. It's his superhuman speed, strength and durability, on TOP of being far more experienced and a pretty decent fighter in his own right. It's the combination of the two, Daredevil has never beaten an opponent who was both superhuman and highly skilled at the same time, not to Darhk's degree at least.

@nickzambuto: You know this is 616 Daredevil right?

Duh. You do know CW Green Arrow is vastly superior to his own comic book counterpart, right?

@nickzambuto: When Darhk doesn't have his magic or is flustered/panicked, he seems to be a middle tier fighter at best though. Like, all of his superhuman physical attributes go completely out the window along with most of his skill. I mean, he goes from stomping Oliver nigh effortlessly at the beginning of an episode to being stomped by the same Oliver at the end of the episode. That's some ridiculous inconsistency.

Daredevil in this situation

@nickzambuto: Lmao. Just checkin bro

That never happened.

Okay bro. How many Daredevil comics have you read?

@nickzambuto: Without magic does Darhk still have enhance physicals?

@nickzambuto: Only a few. Couldn't really get into him without Miller and Brubaker involved.

Daredevil.

@samjackson: read bendis' and waid's runs... Waid's run is probably my favorite run since Miller's whole run... He was in san fran instead of hell's kitchen which made for some really intersting plot points.. Soule is doing a good job with the character now,, I am not sure how peeps don't remember he is daredevil but still its good.. The new apprentice blindspot is pretty cool too... Anyway,, just a recomedation if you wanted some good dd stories...

Daredevil humiliates him.

@newecho: Thnaks bro! Definitely gonna look into Waids run you're literally the 3rd person to recommend in the past week lol.

I think we should wait until the next episode to say if Darhk is even skilled at all. When he lost his magic powers Oliver stomped him and the preview for the next episode makes it look like he is going to be beat up by prison thugs.

It was amazeballs,,, I am hoping he can do something similiar with black widow(although i loved her last run).. Samnee is with him again for that series,, and i picked up the first issue wed,, and it was good but really didn't have a plot other than widow is an enemy of shield and stole something from them.. It will be interesting to see if she has anything to do with the pleasant hill thing that's going on... anyways appreciate the response...

No but I was talking about their fight in the midseason finale, not their recent fight.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/2-06-2016/Za-CvB.mp4

After this Darhk just used his telekinesis to gain the advantage. But that was only after Green Arrow defeated him in melee. And since Daredevil doesn't have telekinesis to fall back on, well...

Lmao. Just checkin bro

How is Green Arrow beating someone who deflected bullets as a rookie, and has a skill set substantially better? Green Arrow can't compare to 616 Daredevil, let alone beat.

@nickzambuto: I don't see why you are so impressed by that, even in that fight Darhk relied on superior physicals and TK while not showing great skill. What is Darhk best strength feat, kicking GA which caused a train pole to bend? Darhk doesn't even use his speed in combat.

If that counts as a win for oliver than Darhk has a 3-1 record on Oliver in hand to hand (discounting there fight where Darhk was depowered):

And I don't see why Matt couldn't beat Damien in hand to hand. Damien's only notable feats in hand to hand are against green arrow IIRC.

@nickzambuto: How is CW Green Arrow better than PC Green Arrow? Also, how would you rank Arrow, The Flash, Daredevil and Jessica Jones from best to worst? How do you feel about Legends of Tomorrow at the moment?

Damian was a horseman of the previous Ra's al Ghul. That makes him one of the greatest assassins in the whole organization, and in fact we know that he was actually the second best assassin in the whole League 100 years ago, second only to the man who became the current Ra's al Ghul. Recent horseman include Maseo Yamashiro and Malcolm Merlyn, so obviously being a horseman is a big deal, not even Sara was actually a horseman. And this was before Damian moved on to create his own organization and train an army of special forces soldiers who rivaled the League of Assassins. Sure he isn't full of H2H feats, but I don't understand how someone could think he isn't actually skilled at all. Oliver might have curbstomped him but Oliver can also curbstomp Merlyn by this point, so that doesn't mean anything. He's probably on the Slade/Merlyn tier, he recognized Malcolm's style almost immediately after seeing Thea fight, after all. He's snuck up on Oliver and Thea, ghosted Diggle, and sensed Vixen coming before she ambushed him through a window, all of which takes significant skill. Not to mention the whole 150+ years of experience thing. But I don't watch the promos since they're full of spoilers, so I didn't read that tag. Regardless he showed good moves in his first fight with Oliver, and we'll be seeing his fight with Ra's al Ghul in a later episode of Legends, so it seems pretty obvious to me that Damian is at least pretty skilled in the context of the Arrowverse and not just some goon.

Well I don't want to talk about promo's since you don't like spoilers, and I guess we don't know the context as of yet. Your right about Oliver curbstomping Malcolm so I guess that by itself doesn't prove Damien is skilless but I felt like they didn't portray him as a skilled fighter when Oliver stomped him, all though that could just be personal interpretation based on choreography (which admittedly isn't always a reliable gauge). We'll have to wait and see if Darhk does anything while depowered but I am getting the impression that Darhk's skill probably depreciated because of his reliance on magic.

The Man Without Fear isn't even canon and Daredevil deflects bullets with the use of his radar sense to anticipate the trajectory. Anybody who actually reads Daredevil would know this because it's explained all the time. Radar sense is a big asset when it comes to projectiles, which is why I fully admitted that Matt won't even get scratched by a single arrow despite the fact that Oliver has tagged faster characters in the past, but it's not a game-changer in melee. If Oliver is more skilled than he's more skilled, radar won't change that.

Rapid dodges and parries while counterattacking without wasting a movement isn't skillful eh? Yeah nobody will look skillful when they're getting curbstomped, doesn't change the fact that Damian IS skilled.

Damian's best strength feat is casually tossing Green Arrow several feet with one hand hard enough that his body crashed into a pole and turned it to rubber. He also tanked an explosive arrow without losing his smile and casually snapped one of Oliver's carbon arrows in half with his bare hands. He's not some powerhouse but I never said he was, he just has superhuman levels of strength and that adds to the full package.

Of course Darhk doesn't use his speed in combat. The viewer needs to be able to see what's happening. Again, characters in live-action/video games/cartoons/any media besides comics which is a bunch of still images, are only shot as fighting as fast as they actually are on rare occurrences, because the viewer seeing what is happening takes priority. Doesn't change the fact that Darhk has superspeed.

How is he not? The only category that's actually even comparable is sheer distance accuracy, but when CW Green Arrow is head and shoulders superior to PC Green Arrow in actual archery combat, even that isn't an advantage.

You are referring to the shows and not the characters, yes? Okay, this is my own personal ranking.

1. Arrow
2. Daredevil
3. Jessica Jones
4. Flash Legends of Tomorrow
5. Flash (not that I dislike Flash at all, I'm just not quite as into it as some people are)

Okay, we'll have to wait and see then. For now I'm going under the assumption that Darhk is a highly knowledgeable and experienced fighter, given the above information.

@nickzambuto: Alright.

@nickzambuto: Well I didn't mean to infer that he's not skilled at all. Just that he's not nearly as skilled as someone like Ra's Al Ghul. And yes, Darhk did stomp Oliver when he confronted Darhk with Vixen's help. Remember Darhk throwing Oliver out of the window? That was after he had stomped him in H2H. And then later that episode after losing his magic, Oliver stomped him in H2H.

Essentially, Darhk losing to Oliver is just an indicator that Darhk isn't incredible at pure H2H combat. It's not a feat suggesting that Oliver is a grandmaster or something like that just because he beta Darhk.

And that Merlyn vs Oliver fight just doesn't sit well with me. Just isn't logical that Merlyn would go down that easily.

Why does Darhk need to be just as skilled as Ra's al Ghul, who is quite literally the single most skilled fighter to ever appear in the entire Flarrowverse, just to be considered impressive? Just being Slade/Malcolm level in addition to superhuman stats isn't enough? I don't understand you're thinking. And Darhk getting one good kick on Ollie before immediately bringing out the TK after about 5 seconds of combat hardly qualifies as "stomping him in H2H".

I really don't agree with your logic, it just sounds like you're trying your very best to bring Oliver down at all costs. When Damian Darhk has centuries of fighting experience and was the second greatest fighter in the whole League of Assassins and a potential candidate for Ra's, before moving on to create his own organization where he trained an army of special forces soldiers to rival the League of Assassins, and he's the big bad of this whole season, then yes, Oliver beating him in melee is obviously meant to be an accomplishment on Ollie's part, not the showrunners saying the big bad of the season is actually pathetic. I just don't understand how you can reach that conclusion.

Is Ra's still the most skilled, though? What's to say a current ollie going all out couldn't take Ra's? His performance against malcolm seems to suggest vast improvement on oliver's part.

@nickzambuto: It's just the inconsistency in his performances that bothers me. Darhk has stomped Oliver twice that I can remember and Oliver has stomped him once and gotten an upper hand once. My only conclusion is that he isnt "elite" we'll say at H2H combat (say Slade level) without his magic.

Somebody has to provide a check by any means necessary when Oliver is referred to as leagues more skilled than pretty much every character outside the Arrowverse.

Man, I don't know, I'm just trying to go with the flow. First I argue that Oliver already beat Ra's, then people tell me Ra's was just toying around. So now I say Ra's is the best, and people tell me that's also wrong. What do I do???

@nickzambuto: Go with Ra's is the best :). Don't know why anyone's questioning that

That's Oliver being inconsistent not Darhk. Oliver has always been inconsistent, ever since the very beginning, he'd have to have an even fight with every villain he faces just for the sake of having a fight even though most of those villains aren't even fighters. Notice how I originally said this fight comes down to whether or not Oliver is in jobber mode. The in-universe explanation is that Oliver holds back, until somebody is threatened and he gets that killer instinct activated.

What does this mean?

@nickzambuto: I feel compelled to defend characters such as Khan, Deadpool, Ajax, Captain America, Winter Soldier, Black Widow, any Agents of Shield character, Daredevil characters etc. when people assert that all of them would get stomped or curbstomped by Oliver due to him being "leagues" above them in skill.

Oh gawd. LOL.

Since when does anybody besides me and RBT say that?

@nickzambuto: Well I didn't want to name names but ok. Yeah the main people are you, RBT, db_king/hail hydra, and used to be Al_Sah_him but he seems inactive now.

So three people?

@bobthened said:

@nickzambuto said:

@samjackson said:

@nickzambuto: You know this is 616 Daredevil right?

Duh. You do know CW Green Arrow is vastly superior to his own comic book counterpart, right?

Why are you afraid of other people's opinions?

@nickzambuto said:

@bobthened said:

@nickzambuto said:

@samjackson said:

@nickzambuto: You know this is 616 Daredevil right?

Duh. You do know CW Green Arrow is vastly superior to his own comic book counterpart, right?

Why are you afraid of other people's opinions?

all I am saying is ... CW Green Arrow is vastly inferior to his comic counterpart

@nickzambuto: Yes, essentially. Which actually illustrates a point quite well. Three people on this site are arguing that CW Arrow is superior to all of those aforementioned characters and are arguing that they can beat many mid-top tier comics characters even up to Batman. You yourself just said on this thread that CW Green Arrow is vastly superior to comics Green Arrow. And that he is an equal for comics Daredevil.

But when people disagree with you, instantly we are the ones that are wrong according to you. You then post a huge post defending why CW Arrow would win, but if everyone is still thinking he loses even after reading your case, maybe it's time to consider that you're wrong? Unless everyone who disagrees with you is just really dumb or something, then obviously the post didn't do enough to prove that Oliver would win. I mean, that's how it works everywhere else. One can't really just sit here and claim something while most if not everyone else disagrees with them (even after seeing the one's case) and continue saying that they're right and everyone else is just wrong and is ignoring the facts.

It's not wrong to have your own opinion at all, but to just assert that everyone who disagrees is flat out wrong plain and simple and obviously doesn't know what they're talking about etc etc comments to that degree, is what's frustrating.

You're literally saying that I'm not allowed to express an opinion that's different from yours and that I'm a jerk for doing it.

saying that; constantly expressing the same point, while accusing everyone else of being wrong is a silly thing to do. When everyone disagrees with you, even after hearing your argument, it is time to at least start questioning whether you are right or not.

@nickzambuto: No I'm not.

Example: Deadpool vs Arrow

I say Deadpool wins. 20 other people also say Deadpool wins, and give a few reasons why. You say Arrow stomps. We say no he doesn't. You post an argument for Arrow. We still think Deadpool wins. You say we are wrong and obviously don't know how to evaluate battles correctly.

That right there is being a jerk. The initial statement that Arrow wins and the subsequent argument is totally fine and even encouraged in my opinion. But if people still disagree, then dismissing them as uninformed or closed minded or ignoring facts etc is being a jerk. You're still free to think that Arrow wins of course, but imposing on us that we are so obviously wrong and whatever else you want to say about us, is why I get frustrated.

@nfactor1995: I can understand where he comes from if no one provides a counter argument. They can't really say he's wrong if they don't tell him how and why he is.