GreeK Warrior Team VS Mahabharata Warrior Team

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great_black_star

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#1  Edited By great_black_star

Greek Warrior Team

1. Zeus

2. Poseidon

3. Hades

4. Hecules

5. Apollo

6. Hermes

7. Ares

8. Achillis

9. Athena

10. Artemis

VS

Mahabharata Warrior Team

1. Karna

2. Bhisma

3. Arjuna

4. Bheema

5. Drona

Rules

  • Both Team have their respective weapons
  • Both team were standing 100 m aparts
  • Use only Folklore feat, no video games
  • Win by complete Anahiliation only
  • Fight Take place in an OPEN FIELD

Which Team wins?

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Lukundra

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You should clarify what versions of these guys you're talking about. Is this from actual mythology, or comics, movies, or games?

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APEX_pretador

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all the mahabharat team has planetary lvl weapons (except bheem)

karna had indestructible armor which makes him invulnerable to damage. Arjun has universal weapons. They both are said to fight 60,000 fighters to a standstill.

no idea about Greek team. it'd be great if someone explains

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great_black_star

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#4  Edited By great_black_star

@lukundra said:

You should clarify what versions of these guys you're talking about. Is this from actual mythology, or comics, movies, or games?

Its clarified in the OP now.

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great_black_star

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Should I reduce Mahabharata Team and make Greek team composite?

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nonokranendonk

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Kratos solo's with his femto second reaction speed.

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great_black_star

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#7  Edited By great_black_star

@nonokranendonk: Do you see Kratos anywhere in this thread?

And no Kratos cannot solo even a single member of team 2.

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Klaus

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@apex_pretador: Karna didn't always have the indestructible armour, but if you want to give it to him, the Olympians can always counter it with the golden fleece, which is indestructible and impenetrable.

And you seem to have greatly misunderstood the power of the weapons the Hindu gods have. While they are called "celestial weapons" and "can create cosmic holes", they have never been written to actually display planetary level power or even universal. Killing 60,000 people is a good feat, but Zeus, with the help of Poseidon wiped out all of mankind, before creating more humans.

@nonokranendonk: Do you see Kratos anywhere in this thread?

And no Kratos cannot solo even a single member of team 2.

Or team one considering you specified in the OP that these are real myth versions, not gaming versions.

Anywho as for this battle, team Olympian definitely win. They have much more destructive feats when it comes to battles. Karna felt pain after being stung by a bee. In contrast, a young Ares was stuffed into a tiny jar by giants and didn't die. The Olympians immortality plays a huge factor in this, as in most accounts, they are immortal, while the Hindu gods aren't.

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Leo-343

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Kratos solo's with his femto second reaction speed.

True dat, he can even fight effectively without his head.

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great_black_star

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@klaus:

Actually there aren't Hindu Gods in this battle, all of them are humans with extreme skills and weapons sets.

And they do have weapons able to destroy the world, that is the reason why they didn't use them in the war. If you read Mahabharata, you should know that these people are capable of shooting stars, BFRing people into black hole, can push the weights of universe with the force of their arrow etc.

Another thing, all of them except Bheema were Maharathi capable of fighting 12 atirathis i.e 720000 warriors at once and win.

Anyway I don't know who will win this fight, even though I personally think anyone of Mahabharat team will win in 1on1 battle, hence I put more number on Greek team.

So lets wait for people who have sound knowledge on both side.

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Klaus

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@great_black_star: Drona is the avatar of Brhaspati (a Hindu god). Bhima was given a miraculous conception through the invocation of Vayu (a Hindu god). Bhishma was reborn among humans because of Vashistas (sons of a god). Arjuna is a basically a demigod considering he was also fathered by the god Indra, and Karna was given to the mother by the god Surya. Whether you like to call them Hindu gods or not doesn't matter. Some of them are gods, others are born because of them. I will continue to call team 2 Hindu gods if I so wish as some of them are.

And taking on 720,000 warriors at once is impressive, but again, Poseidon was able to kill billions of humans at the simple request of Zeus like it was nothing. What is to stop Poseidon (so far only one Olympian deity has more feats than all of team 2) from sending a flood to kill them all? Or Zeus from turning them all to pigs? Your putting second rate gods, demigods and supernatural humans against actual immortal gods. If anything you should decrease the number of Olympians. Even Hercules, a demigod is a match for these guys.

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nonokranendonk

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@leo-343 said:
@nonokranendonk said:

Kratos solo's with his femto second reaction speed.

True dat, he can even fight effectively without his head.

Exactly, also, Kratos is a casual universe buster because the gods he killed are omnipotent.

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great_black_star

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@klaus:

I don't know if there is anyone with good knowledge on Mabharata in this forum as I don't want to argue in my own thread.

1. POseidon killing commoners by flooding has nothing to do with facing opponents in a battlefield. And when Maharathi's were fighting against warriors not peasants.

2. A flood is not doing anything when they can vaporise all of them simply by shooting an arrow.

3. Yes Arjuna, Bheema and Karna were kinda demi gods but they are far from Gods.

4. DRona and Bhisma having incarnation don't means much when they were made a mere man.

So I want people to analyze these two teams for their ability.

I wish anyone can provide feats for both team.

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Klaus

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#14  Edited By Klaus

@great_black_star: You are greatly low balling Poseidon's feat. "Poseidon killing commoners"?, he didn't just kill commoners and peasants, he killed everyone. Every human on the planet. Every peasant, every warrior, every king, every HUMAN. Poseidon can flood the entire planet. Trying to vaporise that much water coming in from all directions won't do any good. The water is too much and it will be coming in faster than they can attempt to vaporise it. Also you didn't provide a counter for Zeus turning them all into pigs. Ares has turned people into roosters before, can you provide anything to suggest he can't turn all of team 2 into roosters?

The Olympians are more of a challenge for Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma etc.

Also just a note, you can edit the OP to add in a list of feats for team two yourself. As long as you aren't arguing for them over team 1 then you aren't doing anything wrong. If you do that I can provide a list of feats for team Olympian.

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great_black_star

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#15  Edited By great_black_star

Well as the members of this forum seems to have more sound knowledge on Greek mythology than Hindu's, so I will provide what are the capabilties of the Mahabharata team

1. वासवी शक्ति (Vasavi Shakti)

Indra's weapon that was loaned for a one-time use to Karna. Sure to kill the target, no matter what/who it may be. Karna preserved it to use it against Arjuna

2. नारायणास्त्र (Narayanastra)

Lord Narayana's weapon that was reported to split into millions of self guiding missiles, with power of impact directly being proportional to resistance offered. The only known shield was disarmament and complete surrender. It was possessed by Drona.

3. ब्रम्हास्त्र (Brahmastra)

Considered to be the supreme weapon that can be possessed. Very very rare. Possessed by many people and used by just one person in the epic. Effects similar to nuclear fallout - areas become barren, people suffer, effect propagates across generations. Use restricted against mortals. Karna planned on using it against Arjuna, but due to several reasons (his mother's request, his teacher's curse) could not do so.

4. ब्रम्हशिरा (Bhrahmashira)

Close relative of the Brahmastra. Used by Ashwattama against the Pandavas and by Arjuna in self defence.. It is 4 times more powerful than Brahmastra.

5. पाशुपतास्त्र (Pashupatastra)

Indestructible and irresistible weapon of Lord Shiva that contains the power to destroy all creations. Use prohibited against mortals. Possessed by Arjuna who obtained it directly from Shiva. Never used in the epic.

Well they are some of the few abilities these peoples are capable of beside shooting stars, BFRing people to black whole and pushing weigth of whole universe etc.

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great_black_star

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@klaus: I have provided some feats there, lets see if those helps.

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great_black_star

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bump

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Cooldudeachyut

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#18  Edited By Cooldudeachyut

Didn't know there were people here who actually read Mahabharata.

My money's on the Greek Gods because they are actually Gods whereas Mahabharata warriors are just demigods blessed by other Gods. They do have some very destructive weapons, some of them are even able to kill the opponent no matter what, but they still possess human being characteristics. Such as, they can die due to starvation and suffocation(conditions for which the Greek Gods can probably create just fine) or they can be killed by just simple sword strikes. They've even been toyed around by some Hindu Gods sometimes. I think Karna is the only major factor here due to his superior durability(due to the indestructible armor, which BTW can be destroyed after 10000 years of strict focused penance by someone who's pretty powerful) and superior archery skills with better weapons but ultimately the Greek Gods take them down while losing 2-3 members from their team.

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Klaus

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#19  Edited By Klaus

@cooldudeachyut: @great_black_star: Nice feats. The weapons are extremely impressive, but do you have any feats for team two's strength and speed and physical abilities? Because trying to shoot someone like Hermes is going to be impossible without speed feats.

Anyways, I like those weapons, but for many reasons I don't see the second team being a threat. If you or anyone could provide counter my points I would like that.

My reasons are first and foremost, the Olympians are immortal gods. They cannot die. Of everyone on team Olympian, only Hercules and Achilles are mortal and can be killed, and even then it would be extremely difficult due to Hercules wearing the golden fleece which is indestructible, and Achilles being completely invulnerable except for his heel (which would take ages to figure out).

Also what is stopping Zeus and Artemis from simply turning all of team two into pigs, cows, birds or some other animal. Zeus has cursed people with blindness before, so there goes team two's vision, then there is the spamming of all the lightning. And even if team two tries to go for the BFR, most of team one can teleport. They also have Athena and Ares there. Ares is the god of war, and Athena the god of strategy and intelligence. I don't see anyway for team two to win this. Not without asking for help from the Hindu gods who begot/helped make them.

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Cooldudeachyut

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@klaus: But but but... I'm on your side.

←_← →_→

Anyway, they do have some cool feats, such as shooting down arrows mid-air straight at their tips by shooting another arrow at them. They can enchant their arrows to become homing-arrows. They can also enchant their one arrow to divide into 10000 arrows after launching. They can shoot arrows precisely even when blindfolded by just listening.

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great_black_star

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@klaus:

They maybe immortal Gods but can be subdue easily, just read The War of Titans "The War of the Titans shook the earth to its foundations ... the gods and goddesses battled for ten brutal years ... finally, Zeus unleashed all his fury against the Titans and their allies ... at the same time, Briareos, Kottos and Gyes ripped up mountains to bury the Titans under an avalanche of boulders ... with that final barrage, the war was over."

Titans who were immortal, biggers than Gods and possibly more powerful than Gods individually were bury under an avalanche of Boulders. You guess what anyone of the Team 2 can shower boulders like rain.

I think I shall give info in individual Members of Team 2

1. Karna

Karna was one of the greatest warriors, whose martial exploits are recorded in the Mahābhārata, and the only warrior believed to be able to defeat Arjuna in battle, an admiration expressed by Lord Krishna and Bhishma within the body of this work.[1] As per the Mahabharata, Karna was the only warrior in that era who conquered the entire world.

I am going to give only the significant weapons here

Shastra(Weapons)

  • Kaal Disc: Time disc,Renders a piteous state of the enemy, full with magical powers,ending in air, and water filled, ends in craters with fire, generates fire
  • Vishnu Disc: It first sparkles with cosmic holes, contains high degree radiance, revolves with one lakh revolutions per foot, very panicking is its projection
  • Naga Pasha: Noose of The Nagas,Upon impact, this weapon would bind the target in coils of living venomous snakes.
  • Impellers: Presided over by the power of Vishnu
  • Impellers: Presided over by the power of Rudra
  • Kankanam: Weapons wielded by demons, Rod for the elimination of those very demons
  • Vijaya Bow: The bow of Lord Shiva, the Destroyer. . The Sanskrit name ‘Vijaya’ means ‘victory’ and this bow is said to give sure victory to the possessor. The string of this bow cannot be broken by any kind of astra or weapon.Every time an arrow is released from this bow, it created a terrible twang, which is said to be loud as thunder causing terrible fear in enemies and produces flashes of light as brilliant as lightning, which blinds the enemy. Every time an arrow is aimed, the energy of the arrow is amplified by multiple times as this bow is charged with sacred mantras.No weapon, not even Pashupatastra, can harm a warrior who has Vijaya bow in his hand, as the name Vijaya implies

Astra(Supernatural Weapons)

  • Mohana Astra: The Stupefier,astras of Gandharvas
  • Prashamana Astra: the Pacifier of enemy's anger, astras of Ghandharvas
  • Mohana Astra: The Intoxicator,an unassailable intoxicator and a dear astra of Manmatha
  • Teja Prabha Astra: Solar missile the sequestrator of others' brilliance
  • Twashtar Astra: Astra of Twashtri,the heavenly builder,When used against a group of opponents (such as an army), would cause them to mistake each other for enemies and fight each other.
  • Parvataastra: Would cause a Parvata/mountain to fall on the target from the skies
  • Agneyastra: Astra of Agni, god of fire,the weapon discharged would emit flames inextinguishable through normal means.
  • Varunastra: Astra of Varuna, god of water,the weapon discharged would release torrential volumes of water. This weapon is commonly mentioned as used to counter the Agneyastra.
  • Vayvayastra: Astra of Vayu, god of wind,Bring about a gale capable of lifting armies off the ground.
  • Bhargavastra: Astra of Lord Parashurama ,Guru of Karna.This astra possesses Parashurama's skill in archery. Infallible. It brings a shower of arrows much more powerful weapons than the Brahmastra and could cause total destruction of a planet if not retracted.
  • Rudra Astra: Astra of Rudra,a form of Lord Shiva,Contains the power of a Rudra. When it is used, it invokes the power of a Rudra out of the Ekadasha (Eleven) Rudras and destroys the target.

    The mantra for the Siva kavach(armour) can be weakened by the Rudra astra

  • Maheshwarastra: Astra of Lord Maheshwara, a form of Lord Shiva,Contains the power of Shiva's third eye. Shoots a really fast fiery beam which can turn even celestial beings to complete ashes. Infallible and unstoppable.It has the power to turn the entire creation to ashes
  • Brahma Astra: Considered to be the supreme weapon that can be possessed. Very very rare. Possessed by many people and used by just one person in the epic. Effects similar to nuclear fallout - areas become barren, people suffer, effect propagates across generations. Use restricted against mortals. It is the only weapon capable of piercing the Brahma Kavach (invincible armour of Lord Brahma). Extremely powerful.
  • Brahmashira Astra: Astra of Lord Brahma, the Creator,Capable of killing devas.It is the evolution of the Brahmastra, 4 times stronger than Brahmastra.
  • Brahmanda Astra: Astra of Lord Brahma, the Creator,Capable of repelling the Brahmastra and Brahmashira astra and any other weapons ever created.The weapon manifest with the all five heads of Lord Brahma as its tip.This weapon is said to possess the power to destroy the entire universe or Brahmand, the 14 realms according to Hindu cosmology when used for offensive purpose.Highly prohibited to use against an inferior enemy. Designed to neutralize Vaishnavastra of Vishnu and Pashupatastra of Shiva.

I will address about others later.

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bachh2

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@great_black_star: the boulder don't kill them, just render them unable to move and even then they need to put some freakishly powerful being to stand guard of the Titan in case they break out or someone try to free them. And since many of the Titan are universal level by scaling to the God, those avalanche of boulder is a lot to work through consider that they keep them down there.

And you still haven't provide any feat for them to escape insta hex/cursed by the big guys and anyway to bypass their immortality.

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great_black_star

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@bachh2:

1. How does that scaling works? I have read about Greek Gods(I am not claiming I know all about them but general knowledge), and nowhere I get any impression that they can even bust a planet forget about universe.

2. If an avanlanche can incapacitate them then team can easily do so, read Parvataastra of Karna. And that display of Titan is really not matching the sttrength of Bhima who can smash mountain with a punch.

3. About hax, I don't think it will be working here. Any of the Team 2 can also curse people, and arguing will they use curse in a battle is kinda moot when non of them do so. If Zeus and other God can just curse people to pigs then why they didn't do it against Titans. I find that kind of argment really pointless and weak.

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HeroUp2112

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#24  Edited By HeroUp2112

1. Zeus

Zeus was the most powerful of the Greek gods and had a number of powers. His most famous power is the ability to throw lightning bolts. His winged horse Pegasus carried his lightning bolts and he trained an eagle to retrieve them. He could also control the weather causing rain and huge storms. Zeus also had other powers. He could mimic people's voices to sound like anyone. He could also shape shift so that he looked like an animal or a person. If people made him angry, sometimes he would turn them into animals as punishment.

2. Poseidon

Poseidon had complete power and control over the ocean. He could create storms to sink ships or clear weather to help them along. He also could cause earthquakes on land which earned him the title "earth-shaker."

3. Hades

Hades had complete control of the underworld and all its subjects. Besides being an immortal god, one of his special powers was invisibility. He wore helmet called the Helm of Darkness that allowed him to become invisible. He once loaned his helmet out to the hero Perseus to help him defeat the monster Medusa.

4. Hecules

Hercules (Heracles) is most renowned for his strength so much it has become an adjective in our language. This great strength allowed him to fight any enemy whether it be monster or god and achieve victory or even hold up the sky. He was the only hero able to fight gods and win.

If you want to consider it a "power" Hercules came to be seen as the pinnacle of masculinity. As such he was a great (if not unbeatable) warrior, a leader of men, and unmatched virility.

Once he became a god he had all the conventional gods powers such as immortality and shape-shifting.

5. Apollo

Like all the Olympian gods, Apollo was an immortal and powerful god. He had many special powers including the ability to see into the future and power over light. He could also heal people or bring illness and disease. When in battle, Apollo was deadly with the bow and arrow.

6. Hermes is called Psychopompos (Herdsman of the dead or guider of souls), messenger, patron of travelers and athletics, bringer of sleep and dreams, thief, trickster. Hermes is a god of commerce and music. Hermes is the messenger or Herald of the gods and was known for his cunning and as a thief from the day of his birth.

7. Ares There's more but this pretty much sums it up: So pretty much just the power of war. He was skilled at shedding blood a reeking destruction.

8. Achillis

Achilles's most famous power was his invulnerability. Since his mother Thetis bathed him in the River Styx as a child he was supposedly invulnerable all over his body except his heel.

Other than these unique traits of strength and invulerabiltiy both has the conventional powers of a Greek demigod. They were handsome, passionate, and pretty much unbeatable in battle.

9. Athena The Greek goddess Athena was very powerful, and like all gods she had the power to morph into regular people to be among mortals. Since she was goddess of wisdom she was incredibly smart and could convince people to do things, whether right or wrong. She could also create peace, give people the gift of wisdom, and help people in war, or strategic problems. Because she was a god she was an incredibly gifted warrior, architect, and battle planner.

10. Artemis

  • The ability to shoot a bow with perfect aim (since she is the goddess of the Hunt)
  • Cleverness
  • Strength
  • Speed
  • Ability to turn people and herself into animals
  • Heal
  • Kill mortals instantly
  • Guard women during childbirth
  • Look any age she wants to
  • Spread diseases (like her twin brother Apollo: Artemis targeted women and girls, and Apollo men and boys.)
  • Protect girls
  • Protect animals
  • Athletic abilities
  • Eternal life and youth

There's the basics folks. Including the fact that all of them but Achilles are immortal gods (yep, even Heracles got promoted to full god)

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bachh2

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@great_black_star:

2. Tartarus was use as the prison for many beings, some of which was a close match for Zeus so you can be sure that it isn't some rock like you think, expecting the amount of rock to be large enough to keep someone on Zeus tier down. I will post some Zeus feat below, credit to shootingnova's respect thread

3. Because the Titan were powerful enough to resist the curse, but against your team which durability and powerful isn't on the level of the Titan, those curse will do wonder

1. Typhoon head brushed the star meaning he is at least multiple star systems size and Zeus beat him just fine, in some version he receive help, from other solo

Zeus's thunderbolts are so powerful they could ignite and burn the the axle of the universe and melt the sea, earth and heavens, ultimately culminating in a fire that would destroy the entire universe:

[253] And now his thunder bolts would Jove wide scatter, but he feared the flames, unnumbered, sacred ether might ignite and burn the axle of the universe: and he remembered in the scroll of fate, there is a time appointed when the sea and earth and Heavens shall melt, and fire destroy the universe of mighty labour wrought. Such weapons by the skill of Cyclops forged, for different punishment he laid aside—for straightway he preferred to overwhelm the mortal race beneath deep waves and storms from every raining sky.

Source: Metmorhoses Book 1 (trans. More)

Zeus strikes down Phaethon (who at the time was the Sun) with a thunderbolt, fixes the joints of the universe which were damaged by Phaethon's actions, returns the chariot of the Sun to Helios, and calls down rain to clear all the fields and quench the fires that Phaethon had caused:

"Then father Zeus struck down Phaethon with a thunderbolt, and sent him rolling helplessly from on high into the stream of Eridanos. He fixed again the joints which held all together with their primeval union, gave back the horses to Helios, brought the heavenly chariot to the place of rising; and the agile Horai that attended upon Phaethon followed their ancient course. All the earth laughed again. Rain from lifebreeding Zeus cleared all the fields, and with moist showers quenched the wandering fires, all that the glowing horses had spat whinnying from their flaming throats out of the sky over all the earth. Helios rose driving his car on his road again; the crops grew, the orchards laughed again, receiving as of yore the life-giving warmth from the sky."

Source: Nonnus, Dionysiaca 38. 90 ff

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great_black_star

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@bachh2:

1. I am not the one arguing here against Greek Gods, I was just providing info on Team 2 as people seems rather uninformed about them.

2. It wasn't Tartaros that defeat Titans, they were just vanished under Tartoros after they got defeated. And Yes random mountains are going to work here as per the lore

3. Thunderbolt of Zeus is the same weapon of Indra called Vajra. And guess what its totally insignificant weapon infront of all those weapons.

4. If being stronger than Zeus is enough to resist the curse than Team will never be effected by his curse. Zeus is someone who can be defeated by an avalanche of Mountain rocks while Bheem there can bust a mountain with a punch.

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bachh2

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@great_black_star: Tartarus was the prison where the Titan are imprisoned, it is strong enough to hold casual star buster and universal damage dealer so it isn't just a pile of rock. If a pile of rock is all it take to imprison those titan that have much better destruction feat than those pile of mountain then you can damn sure Tartarus is durable af.

Is there any feat for Varja thunder causing damage on universal scale? If not then Zeus lightning>>>>Varja

And again you are treating team as they are stronger than Zeus instead of trying to prove it. It seem to me that you are extremely biased against Greek Mythology.

Zeus's power is such that he is able to set even the Titans free from Tartarus, and Atlas from having to hold up the sky, etc:

"Does not even now great [Titan] Atlas struggle to bear up the weight of heaven, far from his fathers’ land and his possessions? But almighty Zeus set free the Titanes, for as time passes and the breeze abates, the sails are set anew. [I.e. all of the Titanes were freed, even Atlas.]"

Source: Pindar, Pythian Ode 4. 290 ff (trans. Conway)

Atlas can lift the Earth, something that Zeus can easily free Atlas from, Good luck with your avalanche.

Also this

Zeus strikes Phlegra with such force that the ground itself trembles and quakes. He also hurls Typhon back into the deepest recesses of the earth:

"The ground trembles and quakes at the shock, as when Jupiter [Zeus] strikes Phlegra [home of the Gigantes] with his angry brand and hurls back Typhon to the deepest recesses of the earth."

Source: Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 6. 168

Typhoon is at least multiple star system in size, and Zeus was able to hurl him. Meaning that he is able to hurl something that have the mass a few trillion time more than Earth. So good luck finding the amount of rock.

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great_black_star

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1. Zeus

Zeus was the most powerful of the Greek gods and had a number of powers. His most famous power is the ability to throw lightning bolts. His winged horse Pegasus carried his lightning bolts and he trained an eagle to retrieve them. He could also control the weather causing rain and huge storms. Zeus also had other powers. He could mimic people's voices to sound like anyone. He could also shape shift so that he looked like an animal or a person. If people made him angry, sometimes he would turn them into animals as punishment.

2. Poseidon

Poseidon had complete power and control over the ocean. He could create storms to sink ships or clear weather to help them along. He also could cause earthquakes on land which earned him the title "earth-shaker."

3. Hades

Hades had complete control of the underworld and all its subjects. Besides being an immortal god, one of his special powers was invisibility. He wore helmet called the Helm of Darkness that allowed him to become invisible. He once loaned his helmet out to the hero Perseus to help him defeat the monster Medusa.

4. Hecules

Hercules (Heracles) is most renowned for his strength so much it has become an adjective in our language. This great strength allowed him to fight any enemy whether it be monster or god and achieve victory or even hold up the sky. He was the only hero able to fight gods and win.

If you want to consider it a "power" Hercules came to be seen as the pinnacle of masculinity. As such he was a great (if not unbeatable) warrior, a leader of men, and unmatched virility.

Once he became a god he had all the conventional gods powers such as immortality and shape-shifting.

5. Apollo

Like all the Olympian gods, Apollo was an immortal and powerful god. He had many special powers including the ability to see into the future and power over light. He could also heal people or bring illness and disease. When in battle, Apollo was deadly with the bow and arrow.

6. Hermes is called Psychopompos (Herdsman of the dead or guider of souls), messenger, patron of travelers and athletics, bringer of sleep and dreams, thief, trickster. Hermes is a god of commerce and music. Hermes is the messenger or Herald of the gods and was known for his cunning and as a thief from the day of his birth.

7. Ares There's more but this pretty much sums it up: So pretty much just the power of war. He was skilled at shedding blood a reeking destruction.

8. Achillis

Achilles's most famous power was his invulnerability. Since his mother Thetis bathed him in the River Styx as a child he was supposedly invulnerable all over his body except his heel.

Other than these unique traits of strength and invulerabiltiy both has the conventional powers of a Greek demigod. They were handsome, passionate, and pretty much unbeatable in battle.

9. Athena The Greek goddess Athena was very powerful, and like all gods she had the power to morph into regular people to be among mortals. Since she was goddess of wisdom she was incredibly smart and could convince people to do things, whether right or wrong. She could also create peace, give people the gift of wisdom, and help people in war, or strategic problems. Because she was a god she was an incredibly gifted warrior, architect, and battle planner.

10. Artemis

  • The ability to shoot a bow with perfect aim (since she is the goddess of the Hunt)
  • Cleverness
  • Strength
  • Speed
  • Ability to turn people and herself into animals
  • Heal
  • Kill mortals instantly
  • Guard women during childbirth
  • Look any age she wants to
  • Spread diseases (like her twin brother Apollo: Artemis targeted women and girls, and Apollo men and boys.)
  • Protect girls
  • Protect animals
  • Athletic abilities
  • Eternal life and youth

There's the basics folks. Including the fact that all of them but Achilles are immortal gods (yep, even Heracles got promoted to full god)

this is far more accurate about Greek Gods.

I am still wondering how does anyone percieve them as solar system busters?

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I think Mahabharata team has better destructive potential, but they need a few more members to convincingly win. Add some more heavy hitters like, say Meghnad (Indrajit), Ashwatthama or Lakshmana, and Team 2 decisively wins.

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@klaus said:

@apex_pretador: Karna didn't always have the indestructible armour, but if you want to give it to him, the Olympians can always counter it with the golden fleece, which is indestructible and impenetrable.

And you seem to have greatly misunderstood the power of the weapons the Hindu gods have. While they are called "celestial weapons" and "can create cosmic holes", they have never been written to actually display planetary level power or even universal. Killing 60,000 people is a good feat, but Zeus, with the help of Poseidon wiped out all of mankind, before creating more humans.

@great_black_star said:

@nonokranendonk: Do you see Kratos anywhere in this thread?

And no Kratos cannot solo even a single member of team 2.

Or team one considering you specified in the OP that these are real myth versions, not gaming versions.

Anywho as for this battle, team Olympian definitely win. They have much more destructive feats when it comes to battles. Karna felt pain after being stung by a bee. In contrast, a young Ares was stuffed into a tiny jar by giants and didn't die. The Olympians immortality plays a huge factor in this, as in most accounts, they are immortal, while the Hindu gods aren't.

Karna was born with his armour and earrings which can't be destroyed by golden fleece because they are made from gold and Amrit(immortality nectar). Karna didn't even flinch when he was stung by a bee and he wasn't allowed to use his armour in Lord Parashuram's ashram. Karna ripped his armour and earring with ease and gave them to Lord Indra. So, Karna could handle pain.

@klaus said:

@cooldudeachyut: @great_black_star: Nice feats. The weapons are extremely impressive, but do you have any feats for team two's strength and speed and physical abilities? Because trying to shoot someone like Hermes is going to be impossible without speed feats.

Anyways, I like those weapons, but for many reasons I don't see the second team being a threat. If you or anyone could provide counter my points I would like that.

My reasons are first and foremost, the Olympians are immortal gods. They cannot die. Of everyone on team Olympian, only Hercules and Achilles are mortal and can be killed, and even then it would be extremely difficult due to Hercules wearing the golden fleece which is indestructible, and Achilles being completely invulnerable except for his heel (which would take ages to figure out).

Also what is stopping Zeus and Artemis from simply turning all of team two into pigs, cows, birds or some other animal. Zeus has cursed people with blindness before, so there goes team two's vision, then there is the spamming of all the lightning. And even if team two tries to go for the BFR, most of team one can teleport. They also have Athena and Ares there. Ares is the god of war, and Athena the god of strategy and intelligence. I don't see anyway for team two to win this. Not without asking for help from the Hindu gods who begot/helped make them.

The Greek gods can't curse them because Mahabharat heroes are affected by laws of Karma, which means no warrior can be cursed mid-battle. Although Olympians are immortal they can be subdued by Brahmastra, Gandiva(Bow), Vijaya(Bow), Praswapastra, Bhargavastra, Narayanastra etc.

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Chad_Duby

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#31  Edited By Chad_Duby

I back the team that has Bramahastra.

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MightyKalEl

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Mahabharata team. Indra is Hindu analogue of Zeus. There are gods in Hindu mythology even more powerful than Indra such as Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, Durga etc and their incarnations. Arjuna single handedly beat an army that comprised 33+ gods along with thousands of demons, serpents, gandharvas etc with Indra at their fore. He handles most of the opposite team if not all by himself. Arjuna was Nara (an incarnation of Vishnu himself) taken birth among humans as Indra's son. They chose to fight the Kurukshetra war as humans even though they had in them the power to annihilate everything just with their mind. Plenty of weapons in Mahabharata have shaken Earth. The reason why the planet wasn't destroyed was that there were counter weapons available.

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great_black_star

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bump

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They all get killed by some piece of cardboard with a Trap.

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The_Badman

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#35  Edited By The_Badman

Logically, Greek Gods should stomp as they are actual Gods with godly powers, whereas the Mahabharata warriors are just demigods. The warriors have a ton of battle feats though, which the gods are lacking in.

@mightykalel:

Arjuna single handedly beat an army that comprised 33+ gods along with thousands of demons, serpents, gandharvas etc with Indra at their fore.

May I ask when this happened? I remember Arjun fighting an army of asuras and rakshasas with Indra at his side.

Arjuna was Nara (an incarnation of Vishnu himself) taken birth among humans as Indra's son

This is incorrect. Arjun is not an incarnation of Vishnu. I don't understand Sanskrit and have read Mahabharat in English, but I'm pretty sure Nara means something other than Vishnu. Vishnu has ten incarnations and Arjun is not one of them. The incarnation of Vishnu during the events of the Mahabharat is Krishna.

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#36  Edited By deltahuman

Every member of the Mahabharata team listed here except Bheema, has access to the Brahmastra. Arjuna and Drona even had the Brahmashir Astra. Arjuna also had the infallible Pashupatashtra.

All of them are Planetary to Universal weapons. Any of the Mahabharata warriros listed here, except maybe Bheema can solo with a single arrow.

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The_Badman

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@deltahuman: Strictly going by feats, even Bheem can solo. He has some very impressive showings in the final war.

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@the_badman:

I know Bheem is super strong and he had a good knowledge on celestial weapons too. I mean he also was taught by Drona. I just don't remember good feats. Can you list some of them if you know. Also do you know what celestial weapons he had?

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@deltahuman: I don't remember weapons he carries, but he doesn't have the Brahmastra. But here's the deal: Bheem is a warrior capable of fighting several rathis at once. I think Rathis by themselves are capable of fighting thousands or more footsoldiers by themselves. So Bheem is obviously faster than anyone from the Gods side. His best feat is beating Karna. This is obviously a high showing for him/low showing for Karna, but its a feat regardless.

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@the_badman:

Yeah Bheem can probably solo too. Being the son of Vayu would also grant him numerous abilities.

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@deltahuman:

Being the son of Vayu would also grant him numerous abilities.

Other than his strength, he didn't really inherit any other power.

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@the_badman:

That's why I was sceptical of Bheem soloing this. But Celestial weapons knowledge might help him solo though

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#43  Edited By MightyKalEl

@the_badman: Indra had aid from gods like Surya -the Sun God, Karthikeya (Siva's son), Yama (God of death) and 30 others when he confronted Arjuna during Khandava dahana parva.

Wrong, Vishnu has 20+ avatars according to Bhagavata Purana. Vyasa, the guy who wrote Mahabharata is Vishnu's avatar but he isn't in the 10 most known avatars/Dasavathars. Likewise, Nara and Narayana were rishis, twin brothers, born to Dharma amd Murthi, and Vishnu's 4th or 5th avatars. They were supremely powerful and ancient to the extent they didn't even need to worship Brahma, one of the Trinity. It was stated clearly in Bhagavata Purana that Vishnu incarnated as Nara for the welfare of all living beings.

Here is a quote by Brahma himself from Mahabharata about Arjuna and Krishna :

"Possessed of great energy of mind and great strength, Partha is a hero, accomplished in arms and endued with ascetic merit. Possessed also of great energy of body, he beareth the entire science of weapons. Indeed, Partha hath every accomplishment. He ought to be victorious, since that would accomplish the purposes of the gods. In consequence of his greatness, Partha transgresses destiny itself, whether favourable or unfavourable, and when he does so, a great destruction of creatures takes place. When the two Krishnas are excited with wrath, they show regard for nothing. These two bulls among beings are the Creators of all real and unreal things. These two are Nara and Narayana, the two ancient and best of Rishis. There is none to rule over them. They are rulers over all, perfectly fearless, they are scorchers of all foes. In heaven or among human beings, there is none equal to either of them. The three worlds with the celestial Rishis and the Charanas are behind these two. All the gods and all creatures walk behind them. The entire universe exists in consequence of the power of these two."

Partha is Arjuna's name. He is also called Krishna. That's why "2 Krishnas" are used in the quote above. There are 4 Krishnas in Mahabharata: Krishna, Vyasa, Arjuna and Draupadi. Nara took birth as Indra's son Arjuna among humans. Not many people in Mahabharata knew who he really was, but him being Indra's son was well known.

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Bhima beat Karna 7 times in a row on 14th day and beat him unconscious on 17th day. Vayu's ansha gave him superhuman strength, but he also inherited vidyas of which Vayu was the presiding deity, like Pratigatha Vidhya. It gives Bhima the ability to send any weapons thrown at him back to the sender. Apart from Bhima who inherited that knowledge, only Arjuna and Krishna knew it. Him beating Karna isn't a low showing for Karna. Karna only beat Bhima once in his lifetime and that was right after he lost 7 times in a row to Bhima on the 14th day. Bhima was tired and exhausted at that time. Bhima has been called Atiratha multiple times by multiple people. Atiratha is a class to which warriors like Arjuna, Krishna, Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Aswathamma, Abhimanyu, Satyaki, Pradyumna, Drishtadyumna, Kripa etc belonged. Dude is severely underrated.

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@deltahuman:

* Aswathamma, Drona, and Arjuna had Brahmasira.

* Arjuna, Bhima, Karna, Yudhishtira, Drona, Bhishma, Aswathamma, Swetha, and plenty of others had Brahmastra.

* Karna's most famous astra was Amogha Sakthi and then Bhargavastra.

* Arjuna had Brahmastra, Brahmasira, Pasupatha, Indra's Vajra aka thunderbolt, Varuna's noose, and Yama's danda/mace which, if you know the famous Yama vs Ravana fight from Ramayana cannot be countered and numerous other such OP weapons. Arjuna was the complete package. Some of those weapons, despite having access, Arjuna never used in his lifetime.

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#46  Edited By deltahuman

@mightykalel:

Thank you. I've always thought that people tend to overrate Karna because he is the tragic antihero of the epic. He's no doubt one of the most powerful characters in the epic and an unstoppable force with the Vijay Bow. But people act like he's superior to Arjun which he's not. Karna was rather versatile. He's said to possess all the qualities of the Pandavas, Stregth comparable to Bheem, Archery skill comparable to Arjun and so on.

Regarding Arjun, he's the best. It's true that he had a lot of celestial weapons which could have ended the war much faster but he didn't use any of them. Arjun defeated all the Kaurava forces even before the Kurukshetra war, singlehandedly. It was during the Virat Parva.

BTW, who do you think is the most powerful (in terms of all abilities, weapons, boons etc.) mortal warrior born in Ancient India? Bheesma, Drona, Arjuna, Karna, Aswathama or Indrajit or someone else? I'm excluding Vishnu's avatars like Parshuram or even mortal avatars like Lord Rama or Krishna for obvious reasons.

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MightyKalEl

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@deltahuman:

Thank you. I've always thought that people tend to overrate Karna because he is the tragic antihero of the epic. He's no doubt one of the most powerful characters in the epic and an unstoppable force with the Vijay Bow. But people act like he's superior to Arjun which he's not. Karna was rather versatile. He's said to possess all the qualities of the Pandavas, Stregth comparable to Bheem, Archery skill comparable to Arjun and so on.

When I was a kid and didn't know much about Mahabharata outside of widely known stories, I used to adore Karna. He was my hero and I despised the Pandavas and Arjuna in particular for their "wrongdoings" toward Karna. Later, in 2013-14, the Mahabharata television serial was aired on Star Plus [I assume you are from India, if you are not, Star Plus is an Indian channel]. The events and stories shown in it were not like what I had heard. Confused, I decided to read the epic and find out what's true and what's not. It was only after reading the full unabridged text followed by the critical edition that I realized how misinformed I was about the epic. My hatred towards the Pandavas became respect and admiration and love for Karna turned became pity and hate.

Almost everything widely circulated about Karna is pure nonsense. Even Karna's tragic life is overrated. He didn't suffer much, I even dare to say that he suffered absolutely nothing compared to the Pandavas. Karna was raised by Atiratha who was a friend of Dritharashtra and was of royal Anga lineage. Yes, the same Anga which Duryodana, who had no power over it "donated" to Karna lol. Bhishma never looked outside Hastinapura to annex countries and with Jarasandha living, Hastinapura could not have had any power over Anga, which in turn makes Duryodana's donation impossible. He grew up as Atiratha's son together with Atiratha's other sons, studied under Drona and Parasuram and then became the king of Anga. He lived and died as a king. Where did the suffering come from? If it was the "Suta Putra" stuff, then most people don't even realize that Suta wasn't a low caste. According to Manu Smrithi, a suta is a son of a Kshatriya and Brahmana. There were suta priests, suta kings and high ranked suta officials. For example, Sanjaya, one of Dritharasthra's most trusted officials, was a suta. Then Kichaka, you might have heard of him, he was the commander in chief of Virata kingdom and a well known, feared and fierce warrior. Considering the status someone from a royal lineage had at that time, was it even possible for anyone to insult Karna without having to face the consequences? I don't think so.

The Pandavas spent a good period of their lives in forests. They were born in a forest. Yudhishtira lived there for around 12 years, Bhima 8 years and Arjuna 4 years. Remember, they were the princes of one of the most powerful empires of that time and sons of Gods. I will briefly point out the period Arjuna had to live in forest or outside his royal palace.

* First 4-5 years after his birth.

* Few years after Varanavata incident. Don't remember exactly how long their exile lasted.

* 12 years of exile post Rajasuya and Yudhishtira's crowning as the emperor.

* 13+1 years of exile post dice game.

That's more than 30 years of suffering compared to Karna's nonexistent sufferings. And people say Arjuna and his brothers were living in luxury, smh. How is the guy who spent his entire life as a king considered the champion of the oppressed? I always wonder.

Now, let's move on to Karna having the qualities of all Pandavas. There is not a single feat from him to suggest he is even worth to be considered to contend against Bhima in a physical fight, not even a statement could be found. I remember Bhima challenging him for a physical fight and Karna refusing and flying away in fear. I am not saying Karna was a weakass warrior, he was a great one. One of the great Kaurava warriors. But truth be told, he is overrated as hell. He legit beat Nakula and Sahadeva, but Yudhistira made him unconscious on 17th day. But still I place Karna above Yudhishtira. Arjuna kicked his ass back to Anga numerous times before their final battle on the 17th day. That's how his performance was against the 5 sons of Kunti. Sivaji Sawant has written a novel titled Mrityunjaya, it has played a significant role in propagating all this ridiculous and absurd stories about Karna. Then we have serials, movies and stuffs which further add to this list of stories. I don't know if you have heard, but Star network is doing a show based on Karna's romantic life. I am sitting here shaking my head hard wondering from where in the hell did they get information on Karna's private life. Vyasa didn't give it, because aside from listing his brothers, foster parents and sons, there is absolutely nothing regarding his personal life in the epic. To make it worse than it already is, Arjuna appears in it competing for the love of the same woman who is in love with Karna. A love triangle.

Regarding Arjun, he's the best. It's true that he had a lot of celestial weapons which could have ended the war much faster but he didn't use any of them. Arjun defeated all the Kaurava forces even before the Kurukshetra war, singlehandedly. It was during the Virat Parva.

It is not just his battles and powers, his focus, dedication, the mastery he had over his emotions and senses makes him the perfect role model for students and others alike. He was always striving to be better than what HE was before. As Bhishma (and almost everyone) said, there was none in either sides who was a match for him, be it in accomplishments, knowledge of weapons, energy or anything. Virata war is one of the most amazing battles in Mahabharata, a one vs tens of thousands battle. His fights most of the time were one vs many, below I have listed some of such fights in case you need it.

* Battle against Nivatakavachas and Kalakeyas in heaven. He also destroyed their worlds iirc.

* Virata war

* 2nd day of Kurukshetra war

* 4th day

* 13th day against the whole army of Samsapthakas

* 14th day, against literally every Kaurava warriors.

* 15th day

BTW, who do you think is the most powerful (in terms of all abilities, weapons, boons etc.) mortal warrior born in Ancient India? Bheesma, Drona, Arjuna, Karna, Aswathama or Indrajit or someone else? I'm excluding Vishnu's avatars like Parshuram or even mortal avatars like Lord Rama or Krishna for obvious reasons.

Arjuna without a doubt. His bow, Gandiva was created by Brahma himself and his quivers were inexhaustible. In him was the energy and powers of Nara, and he was taught by the Gods. He was the only one who knew all 5 branches of archery and he had knowledge on astras and sastras others couldn't obtain even in their dreams. I don't know of any mortal warrior who has ever had the thunderbolt itself in their possession. Yama's mace was granted infallibility boon by Brahma. It was for this reason that Brahma had to intervene Ravana vs Yama battle, to prevent either of his boons from failing. Yama gave it to Partha. Then Pasupatha astra, the weapon Siva uses to destroy the creation at the end of every yuga/cycle. None save Arjuna had it and he obtained it after gratifying Mahadeva in a battle. He fought with the destroyer himself and Vidura has stated in Mahabharata that even 8 formed Mahadeva couldn't beat Arjuna. There are many forms of Siva, and the most powerful one casually beat Arjuna and granted him his supreme weapon. There are many other weapons and their possession makes Arjuna the undoubtedly the most powerful among them all.

I would rate Indrajith above the Kaurava maharathis. Giving Lakshmana one hell of fight, in my opinion is beyond anything others care capable of. The order then comes like this; Bhishma>Bhima>Drona>/=Aswathamma>Karna. Parasuram lost to Bhishma in Dwapara yuga, there is context behind it though. Abhimanyu is among the top maharathis and so are Satyaki and Drishtadyumna.

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deltahuman

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@mightykalel:

Thank you for sharing this. Yes, I'm from India. From, Guwahati, Assam. Where are you from, if you don't mind telling me.

I did know that Karna is being overrated lately by the TV shows and stuff. Not just Karna, new characters and subplots are being added everyday despite nothing as such being even mentioned even in the Mahabharata or other epics. But you seem to have a very detailed knowledge on the characters. May I ask you what is your source on this. I also wish to read unadulterated versions of the epics.

I have some other questions for you though. Hope you don't find it annoying.

First is, how do you compare the Gandiva and the Vijay Bow? How many bows did Shiva have? Which one was destroyed by Rama? How did a Vishnu avatar destroy Shiva's bow?

Why did you rate Drona so low Apparently he couldn't be defeated as long as he had weapons on his hand. He has the knowledge of all the three weapons of the Trinity (except Pashupatastra which I consider to be a different class of weapon), even the Brahmadanda which could neutralize any weapon whether hurled by man or God. He shared his knowledge with Arjuna the most but he didn't share the knowledge of Narayan Astra and Vaishnavastra with Arjun. He gave the Narayan Astra to Aswathama though. Arjun surprisingly had no weapons of Vishnu, which is unnecessary since Vishnu himself was with him, but still. I think Drona is superior to Arjuna in terms of weapons knowledge. What do you think?

Coming back to Indrajit, Apparently he was the most powerful and accomplished mortal warrior ever to roam Earth. What's your take on this? He apparently had all the three weapons of the Trinity, even Shiva's trishul. He lost only because his weapons didn't work on Ram and Lakshman because they were Vishnu/SheshNag avatars. I've also heard that Indrajit is the only mortal warrior to be able to fight a Vishnu avatar and almost win. He is said to have won against Ram and Lakhsman in one instance and made them unconscious (requiring the aid of Garuda) and slaughtered millions of Vanaras. He's also said to have come close to almost killing Lakshman which is a seemingly impossible task. What is your take on the whole Indrajit character?

Also, regarding Bheesma vs Parshuram, what I've heard is that they were equally matched initially but Bheesma was later granted the knowledge of the Prashwapastra, a weapon formerly wielded by the god Dyaus Pita (because Bhishma is an incarnation of Dyaus Pita), in his sleep. And that is how he gained an advantage. But the battle was nonetheless, undecided. Parshuram admitted that he couldn't beat Bheesma. I'd rank them as equals even if Parshuram was a Vishnu avatar because the Vishnu ansh was lost from him as soon as Rama was born in the treta yuga. How do you compare Bheesma and Arjun?

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@deltahuman:

Thank you. I've always thought that people tend to overrate Karna because he is the tragic antihero of the epic. He's no doubt one of the most powerful characters in the epic and an unstoppable force with the Vijay Bow. But people act like he's superior to Arjun which he's not. Karna was rather versatile. He's said to possess all the qualities of the Pandavas, Stregth comparable to Bheem, Archery skill comparable to Arjun and so on.

When I was a kid and didn't know much about Mahabharata outside of widely known stories, I used to adore Karna. He was my hero and I despised the Pandavas and Arjuna in particular for their "wrongdoings" toward Karna. Later, in 2013-14, the Mahabharata television serial was aired on Star Plus [I assume you are from India, if you are not, Star Plus is an Indian channel]. The events and stories shown in it were not like what I had heard. Confused, I decided to read the epic and find out what's true and what's not. It was only after reading the full unabridged text followed by the critical edition that I realized how misinformed I was about the epic. My hatred towards the Pandavas became respect and admiration and love for Karna turned became pity and hate.

Almost everything widely circulated about Karna is pure nonsense. Even Karna's tragic life is overrated. He didn't suffer much, I even dare to say that he suffered absolutely nothing compared to the Pandavas. Karna was raised by Atiratha who was a friend of Dritharashtra and was of royal Anga lineage. Yes, the same Anga which Duryodana, who had no power over it "donated" to Karna lol. Bhishma never looked outside Hastinapura to annex countries and with Jarasandha living, Hastinapura could not have had any power over Anga, which in turn makes Duryodana's donation impossible. He grew up as Atiratha's son together with Atiratha's other sons, studied under Drona and Parasuram and then became the king of Anga. He lived and died as a king. Where did the suffering come from? If it was the "Suta Putra" stuff, then most people don't even realize that Suta wasn't a low caste. According to Manu Smrithi, a suta is a son of a Kshatriya and Brahmana. There were suta priests, suta kings and high ranked suta officials. For example, Sanjaya, one of Dritharasthra's most trusted officials, was a suta. Then Kichaka, you might have heard of him, he was the commander in chief of Virata kingdom and a well known, feared and fierce warrior. Considering the status someone from a royal lineage had at that time, was it even possible for anyone to insult Karna without having to face the consequences? I don't think so.

The Pandavas spent a good period of their lives in forests. They were born in a forest. Yudhishtira lived there for around 12 years, Bhima 8 years and Arjuna 4 years. Remember, they were the princes of one of the most powerful empires of that time and sons of Gods. I will briefly point out the period Arjuna had to live in forest or outside his royal palace.

* First 4-5 years after his birth.

* Few years after Varanavata incident. Don't remember exactly how long their exile lasted.

* 12 years of exile post Rajasuya and Yudhishtira's crowning as the emperor.

* 13+1 years of exile post dice game.

That's more than 30 years of suffering compared to Karna's nonexistent sufferings. And people say Arjuna and his brothers were living in luxury, smh. How is the guy who spent his entire life as a king considered the champion of the oppressed? I always wonder.

Now, let's move on to Karna having the qualities of all Pandavas. There is not a single feat from him to suggest he is even worth to be considered to contend against Bhima in a physical fight, not even a statement could be found. I remember Bhima challenging him for a physical fight and Karna refusing and flying away in fear. I am not saying Karna was a weakass warrior, he was a great one. One of the great Kaurava warriors. But truth be told, he is overrated as hell. He legit beat Nakula and Sahadeva, but Yudhistira made him unconscious on 17th day. But still I place Karna above Yudhishtira. Arjuna kicked his ass back to Anga numerous times before their final battle on the 17th day. That's how his performance was against the 5 sons of Kunti. Sivaji Sawant has written a novel titled Mrityunjaya, it has played a significant role in propagating all this ridiculous and absurd stories about Karna. Then we have serials, movies and stuffs which further add to this list of stories. I don't know if you have heard, but Star network is doing a show based on Karna's romantic life. I am sitting here shaking my head hard wondering from where in the hell did they get information on Karna's private life. Vyasa didn't give it, because aside from listing his brothers, foster parents and sons, there is absolutely nothing regarding his personal life in the epic. To make it worse than it already is, Arjuna appears in it competing for the love of the same woman who is in love with Karna. A love triangle.

Regarding Arjun, he's the best. It's true that he had a lot of celestial weapons which could have ended the war much faster but he didn't use any of them. Arjun defeated all the Kaurava forces even before the Kurukshetra war, singlehandedly. It was during the Virat Parva.

It is not just his battles and powers, his focus, dedication, the mastery he had over his emotions and senses makes him the perfect role model for students and others alike. He was always striving to be better than what HE was before. As Bhishma (and almost everyone) said, there was none in either sides who was a match for him, be it in accomplishments, knowledge of weapons, energy or anything. Virata war is one of the most amazing battles in Mahabharata, a one vs tens of thousands battle. His fights most of the time were one vs many, below I have listed some of such fights in case you need it.

* Battle against Nivatakavachas and Kalakeyas in heaven. He also destroyed their worlds iirc.

* Virata war

* 2nd day of Kurukshetra war

* 4th day

* 13th day against the whole army of Samsapthakas

* 14th day, against literally every Kaurava warriors.

* 15th day

BTW, who do you think is the most powerful (in terms of all abilities, weapons, boons etc.) mortal warrior born in Ancient India? Bheesma, Drona, Arjuna, Karna, Aswathama or Indrajit or someone else? I'm excluding Vishnu's avatars like Parshuram or even mortal avatars like Lord Rama or Krishna for obvious reasons.

Arjuna without a doubt. His bow, Gandiva was created by Brahma himself and his quivers were inexhaustible. In him was the energy and powers of Nara, and he was taught by the Gods. He was the only one who knew all 5 branches of archery and he had knowledge on astras and sastras others couldn't obtain even in their dreams. I don't know of any mortal warrior who has ever had the thunderbolt itself in their possession. Yama's mace was granted infallibility boon by Brahma. It was for this reason that Brahma had to intervene Ravana vs Yama battle, to prevent either of his boons from failing. Yama gave it to Partha. Then Pasupatha astra, the weapon Siva uses to destroy the creation at the end of every yuga/cycle. None save Arjuna had it and he obtained it after gratifying Mahadeva in a battle. He fought with the destroyer himself and Vidura has stated in Mahabharata that even 8 formed Mahadeva couldn't beat Arjuna. There are many forms of Siva, and the most powerful one casually beat Arjuna and granted him his supreme weapon. There are many other weapons and their possession makes Arjuna the undoubtedly the most powerful among them all.

I would rate Indrajith above the Kaurava maharathis. Giving Lakshmana one hell of fight, in my opinion is beyond anything others care capable of. The order then comes like this; Bhishma>Bhima>Drona>/=Aswathamma>Karna. Parasuram lost to Bhishma in Dwapara yuga, there is context behind it though. Abhimanyu is among the top maharathis and so are Satyaki and Drishtadyumna.

According to Ved Vyas's Mahabharat Adhirath was a charioteer and not a king, he was humiliated by Bhishma, Shalya, Bheem and many others because of his caste in original Vyas's Mahabharat. People overrate Karna and Arjun both, Arjun had his fair share of hardship like you said, The first 4-5 years of his life away from royal luxury and society's pressure, They chose to live in exile for a few years after Varnavrat incident, 12 years after rajsuya yagya because he entered Draupadi's chamber to get his Gandiva bow when hi lived in a palace filled with bows and other weaponry, he could've used an ordinary bow and 13+1 years after the Dice game but they were gambling their wife and even Lord Krishna asked Yudhishthir as to why he didn't ask for his help against Shakuni.

Now you said you couldn't find a single feat that would make you consider Karna anywhere close to Bhima, not even a single statement. Karna beat Jarasandha on his own without anyone's help whereas Bhima needed Lord Krishna's help. It's important to note that Jarasandh was only defeated by four warriors Lord Krishna, Lord Balarama, Karna and Bhima. and there was also Keechak who could only be killed in close combat by Bhima, Duryodhana, Karna and a few other warriors.

The most of the time Karna lost to Arjun, he was either disguised as someone else or he had Krishna and Hanuman with him, and even Krishna knew Arjun alone can't finish the war, which is why Iravan sacrificed himself in 32 parts to Goddess Kali and Barbarik was decapitated.

As for Arjun beating 8 forms of Mahadev, it was a test and when Shiva tests his devotees he also provides them with strength like when Atkikya was tested he bowed before Lord Shiva and caught his trident with devotion and humility.

Arjuna's Gandiva was strong which he used many times to beat even the celestial beings but Karna also had Vijaya bow of Lord Shiva.

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MightyKalEl

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#50  Edited By MightyKalEl

@deltahuman:

Thank you for sharing this. Yes, I'm from India. From, Guwahati, Assam. Where are you from, if you don't mind telling me.

I'm also from India. From Palakkad, Kerala.

I did know that Karna is being overrated lately by the TV shows and stuff. Not just Karna, new characters and subplots are being added everyday despite nothing as such being even mentioned even in the Mahabharata or other epics. But you seem to have a very detailed knowledge on the characters. May I ask you what is your source on this. I also wish to read unadulterated versions of the epics.

KMG translation of Mahabharata. It is the only unabridged English version of Mahabharata available in public domain as far as I know. There is Gita Press, Ghorakpur version of Mahabharat but it is in Sanskrit. Reading KGM once alone would be enough to get an idea of what's in the epic and what's not. But, even KMG isn't without errors. That's when the Critical Edition comes in. It was created by Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute [BORI], Pune, Maharashtra. It wasn't the work of a single person, the critical edition was created by an established research institute. The researchers of the institute collected around 1200 manuscripts from across the country which included 21 Devanagari scriptures. After analyzing them for nearly 50 years, they removed most of the later added parts from Mahabharata and created the BORI Critical Edition of Mahabharata. It is in Sanskrit and doesn't have an official English version. Bibek Debroy tried to translate it into English, there are few Sanskrit to English translation errors. But it is the most reliable source we have for readers who don't understand Sanskrit. I have the pdf, but not the link to it. Below are some incidents that BORI found fake and hence removed:

1. Karna failed like just like others in Draupadi swayamvara. Draupadi never said she wouldn't marry a "suta putra". Even in KMG, you can read that the swayamvara was open to all regardless of their caste. Karna's failure is mentioned twice in KMG, but the author forgot to remove it from his work. He, however, gave a footnote saying that the whole Draupadi insulting Karna stuff was a later addition. Gita Press edition also has this same problem.

2. Karna's digvijaya never happened. A lot of Karna related stories were found to be later additions and removed. In KMG we have over 90 chapters in Karna Parva. In BORI, the parva is only around 60 chapters.

3. Now comes the most surprising part, Arjuna didn't need Krishna's help to kill Jayadratha. Yes, you read it right. Arjuna, unaided, exerting himself vanquished 11 akshouhinis [7 out of the 11 were killed on that day by Partha] of Kaurava forces and slew Jayadratha right in front of everyone. Krishna's divine intervention is an interpolation, it never happened. Even in KMG, you can find contradictions to the Krishna-causing-eclipse part.

4. It was Dharma who saved Draupadi in dyuta sabha, not Krishna.

There are other stories that were removed or altered, but these four are the most important ones that come to my mind.

I have some other questions for you though. Hope you don't find it annoying.

No problems :)

First is, how do you compare the Gandiva and the Vijay Bow? How many bows did Shiva have? Which one was destroyed by Rama? How did a Vishnu avatar destroy Shiva's bow?

Gandiva was created by Brahma (not for Arjuna) and it could not be wielded by anyone else on Earth except Arjuna, Krishna and Bhima. Siva held it for first 1000 years. Afterwards Prajapathi held it for for five hundred and three years, followed by Sakra for five and eight years, Soma for five hundred years and Varuna for a hundred years.

Vijaya bow was created by Viswakarma for Indra who later gave it to Parasurama. Parasuram gave it to Kimpurusha Drona [Not Arjuna's guru Drona], who later gave it to Rukmi, the brother of Krishna's wife Rukmini. However, Karna in Salya parva said that Parasuram gave him Indra's bow Vijaya. But it's kind of confusing. Prior to the 17th day of Kurukshetra war, we have never seen Karna using the Vijaya bow, not even once. In fact, it was stated to be with Rukmi not only in Mahabharata but also in Bhagavata Purana and Harivamsa as well iirc. There are two chances, either there were 2 Vijaya bows (unlikely) or Karna was lying to Salya about Parasuram giving it to him and he obtained it from Rukmi who didn't participate in the war (most likely scenario) but visited both camps offering his aid. Siva's first and foremost bow is Pinaka which is equaled or surpassed only by Vishnu's Sarnga. Sarnga>/=Pinaka>Gandiva>>>Vijaya. Rama destroyed the bow "Triambaka" during Sita swayamvara. The Vijaya bow doesn't grant anyone invincibility. Rukmi lost to Krishna while using it and Karna lost to Bhima on the 17th day and then later to Arjuna on the same day. Vijaya wasn't Siva's bow.

Why did you rate Drona so low Apparently he couldn't be defeated as long as he had weapons on his hand. He has the knowledge of all the three weapons of the Trinity (except Pashupatastra which I consider to be a different class of weapon), even the Brahmadanda which could neutralize any weapon whether hurled by man or God. He shared his knowledge with Arjuna the most but he didn't share the knowledge of Narayan Astra and Vaishnavastra with Arjun. He gave the Narayan Astra to Aswathama though. Arjun surprisingly had no weapons of Vishnu, which is unnecessary since Vishnu himself was with him, but still. I think Drona is superior to Arjuna in terms of weapons knowledge. What do you think?

I rated Drona lower than Bhima because he lost to Bhima when he wanted to prevent Bhima from entering the vyuha. Satyaki also defeated him fair and square on the same day. He doesn't have Pasupatha which alone makes up for the lack of any other weapons. I don't think Brahmadanda was used in the war. Arjuna knew all weapons of the Trinity. Bhishma while lying on the bed of arrows reminded Duryodhana that the only one who knew Brahma, Vaishnava, Pasupatha weapons was Arjuna. Krishna was standing near him at that time and if it wasn't the truth, he would have said so. Even if Krishna didn't, the extremely proud Duryodhana would have called it BS. Krishna - Arjuna relationship was eternal, the former considered his friendship with Arjuna more important than his relationship with his wives, parents and everyone else. Krishna has stated multiple times that none is as important and dear to him as his friend Dhananjaya. Krishna was a guide and teacher to Arjuna too. It wouldn't make sense if he hadn't taught Arjuna his own weapons. Arjuna's knowledge in weapons is definitely superior to Drona's knowledge. The boon Drona had was that he couldn't be killed as long as he had weapons on his hand. You don't need to kill someone to beat him, that's how Arjuna, Bhima, Satyaki, Abhimanyu etc beat the preceptor. Bhishma had the boon of Icchamrityu but that didn't stop him from losing to Arjuna and Pradyumna.

Coming back to Indrajit, Apparently he was the most powerful and accomplished mortal warrior ever to roam Earth. What's your take on this? He apparently had all the three weapons of the Trinity, even Shiva's trishul. He lost only because his weapons didn't work on Ram and Lakshman because they were Vishnu/SheshNag avatars. I've also heard that Indrajit is the only mortal warrior to be able to fight a Vishnu avatar and almost win. He is said to have won against Ram and Lakhsman in one instance and made them unconscious (requiring the aid of Garuda) and slaughtered millions of Vanaras. He's also said to have come close to almost killing Lakshman which is a seemingly impossible task. What is your take on the whole Indrajit character?

To be honest, I don't quite remember the events of Ramayana as much as I do of Mahabharata. The last time I read Ramayana, it was 3-4 years ago. I used to actively discuss epics and stuffs, but don't engage in it nowadays. This is the first time in months I am discussing Mahabharata. Ramayana, like Mahabharata had gone through later additions. There are stories like Rama sending Lakshmana to a dying Ravana to receive advice. Isn't it a bullsh*t of the highest order? Why would Rama send his brother to Ravana of all people? So I need to check before saying anything about it. I am not sure of the context of Rama vs Indrajith battle. But one thing is sure, Indrajith didn't have Trisul, nor did he have Pasupatha.

Also, regarding Bheesma vs Parshuram, what I've heard is that they were equally matched initially but Bheesma was later granted the knowledge of the Prashwapastra, a weapon formerly wielded by the god Dyaus Pita (because Bhishma is an incarnation of Dyaus Pita), in his sleep. And that is how he gained an advantage. But the battle was nonetheless, undecided. Parshuram admitted that he couldn't beat Bheesma. I'd rank them as equals even if Parshuram was a Vishnu avatar because the Vishnu ansh was lost from him as soon as Rama was born in the treta yuga. How do you compare Bheesma and Arjun?

Parasuram wasn't in his prime when he fought Bhishma, you said the reason yourself. So, lets move on to Bhishma and Arjuna. Arjuna was superior. The grandsire lost 4 times to Arjuna; during Virata Yudha, on the 2nd, 3rd and 10th day of Kurukshetra war. Bhishma was the most powerful Kaurava warrior and could definitely hold his own against Partha, but not beat him. Arjuna was superior in skills, energy, powers, access to weapons and their knowledge.

Edit : Damn, tried to fix some typos on phone and lost the quotes and spoiler blocks.