@jashro44:
Normally I'm all for this logic. My issue is solid snake beats gray fox twice, with most people arguing snake was never even hit (which is pretty much a curbstomp) but than people will say gray fox still stomps the likes of deathstroke despite the fact deathstroke is a character who fights out of his weight class pretty routinely. I mean he's fought Lex in his war suit, teams of titans which includes donna troy and the likes, etc.
Gray Fox does have a pretty bad record, but I don't like the logic that "if Snake can beat him, then other street levelers can". I don't have a problem with people thinking a street leveler can win against him, I just can't disagree more with the method used to find this conclusion, simply because Snake wins against him. I'm not saying you're basing an opinion off of this, just bringing it up, since it's being discussed here.
Snake beating Gray Fox is perfectly in line with the established hierarchy of combat abilities in the MGS universe, which is soldier skills being the cream of the crop, and everything else, no matter how powerful, takes second fiddle. Just look at Snake's record, and how he beats them.
Stomps
- Vulcan Raven
- Psycho Mantis
- Tengu Soldiers
- The Beauty and The Beast Unit
- Gekkos
- Arguably Cyborg Gray Fox
Very Hard fought Wins
- Big Boss
- Venom Snake
- Ocelot
- Liquid Snake
- Human Gray Fox
The victories that can be considered a stomp, where we see Snake not take a lick of damage or shown to struggle at all, are all against immensely powerful super humans, with a pretty insane array of abilities. Psycho Mantis could likely solo this entire gauntlet with every character attacking him at the same time, yet Snake still beat him.
The victories that are portrayed as very tough wins, and the victories that gained Snake his fame, are with Snake fighting other highly skilled soldiers.
The power hierarchy is established and very consistent in the MGS universe, so Snake beating a ninja version of Gray Fox, makes sense, and him having a very tough fight with human, but still soldier Gray Fox, also makes sense. Gray Fox was no longer fighting with soldier skills, but ninja skills, meaning he may be much more powerful, but he isn't going to have a prayer with a Snake level soldier.
This is consistent, as we see Raiden beat Vamp in MGS2, without taking a lick of damage, when he still fought as a near-clone of Solid Snake, and had nothing but street level weaponry, no HF sword, and was in a location of Vamp's choosing, that heavily favored Vamp. The odds would appear to be stacked heavily in Vamp's corner, but Raiden beats him without even taking any damage at all. When he became a cyborg ninja though, he had the toughest fight of his entire career up until Armstrong, and Vamp was even fighting without a healing factor at this point. Raiden should have stomped him in seconds if this existed in a universe besides MGS, but since he was no longer using his soldier skills, he barely beat a weakened Vamp. Getting a huge boost in stats, doesn't give a character a huge boost in martial prowess, at least not in the MGS universe.
I know most people don't accept this, because it's not the same as basically any other fictional universe, but it's still a consistent theme in MGS. So these other characters that exist in more grounded universes (at least as far as combat goes), might not be able to beat Gray Fox, even if Snake can rather easily.
I do agree with you on Deathstroke though. He might pull a victory here. He's pretty similar to Snake, that he can fight out of his weight class, has the skills of an elite soldier, and struggles the most when he fights against someone who may not be superhuman, but has the skill to match him in combat. I could agree with this logic, since it is in line with the hierarchy of power in MGS. The other characters on this list, maybe not so much.
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