Grand Master Luke Skywalker vs. Hal Jordan

Both are at their primes, have their standard gear, and fight on an indestructible planet in a neutral universe. Morals are off. Who wins?

Gotta give it to Luke. He's got lightning powerful enough to one-shot almost anyone. His only rival in lightsaber combat is Sidious and his only rival in Force prowess is... Sidious! He's the best Jedi to ever live.

Luke can use Flashburn to completely neglect any pain, Force speed to move unbelievably fast, Shatterpoint to find all of Jordan's weaknesses, put a little pressure onto them, and make him go kablooey, telekinetically grab a hold of Hal's trachea and choke the bastard, and, if Hal somehow manages to overpower him, can just dominate his mind and make him take off his ring or something. He knows almost every Force power a Jedi could possibly know so that's barely even a taste of what Luke could do. He's even mastered a bunch of Dark Side Force powers! I mean, I really don't have the time to list the infinite amount of things Luke could do to decimate Hal.

He's also defeated Sidious twice before and it's been stated on this very site multiple times that Sidious would destroy Superman. And, in the movies, back when Luke only had about three days of formal training, he withstood, like, four minutes of Sidious's lightning whilst Windu, another very powerful Jedi, went flying out the window in two seconds.

Despite all of that, Green Lantern does put up a helluva fight, however, Luke wins in the end.

How strong is the Force compared to Hal's will (i.e. his ring)?

Don't really know. I assume the Force is because it is literally the very fabric of, um, everything. However, it's common knowledge that DC makes no sense so I'm sure that Hal's green machine guns are crazy powerful. I'm want to say the Force is stronger though, especially when Luke's the one wielding it.

Yes, but hasn't Hal moved as fast as the Flash before? Could Luke react to movements that fast?

Hal stomps.his shields withstand supernovas and planets exploding. lightning wont do jack. all he has to do is fly up and destroy the planet..or city..or whatever he wants to imagine.

I believe that Hal has only gone light speed in travel, not combat or reflexes.

@edude117: Luke knows every move Hal is going to make before Hal even makes them. Luke has insane reaction times and has demonstrated fast-as-light movements. He could totally block most of Lantern's attacks. And the attacks he doesn't block, he'll be able to deflect with the Force shield he'll have around his body the whole time.

By the way, how can Hal hit something he can't see? Luke could go completely invisible if he wanted to.

Also, just so you know, Hal can not go anywhere near as fast as the Flash can go. The only times he ever "moves as fast as the Flash" is when the Flash is pretty much jogging and the Lantern is flying as fast as possible. His punches and strikes are not anywhere near Flash-speed.

@foreverevil said:

That's the thing. Sure, the lightning disintegrated master Force-users before, but how would it affect Hal? And I'm pretty sure Luke's Force shields can withstand a similar amount of pressure, if not more. Also, based on what thebelltollsforthee's been saying, Luke seems to have way more offensive capabilities than Hal.

Okay, thanks. Someone told me Hal has reached Flash's speed in terms of running or something before.

@edude117: lol He's never traveled as fast as the Flash unless he goes through a portal or gains enough velocity in space.

So what's the verdict? Who wins this battle?

Hal pretty easily.

luke 7 out of 10 in my opinion.

@patrat18: How so?

Hal Jordan

GL's can destroy spaceships, and Jedi's have trouble cutting through their doors. Plus it was established that the Force doesn't work well on those with strong wills.

He could trap Luke in a bubble and bfr him.

@mikex20: Learn about Grandmaster Luke before making such statements.

What's to stop Green Lantern from getting Telepathically mind raped, TK, or speed blitzed? GL can't handle Martian Manhunter's TP which Luke is nearly on par with, so what gives him resistance against it? Since Morals are off and OP didn't specify the distance so one of those two things are happening. Luke has held Black Holes with the Force,. Superman has held a Black Hole in his hand and broken through Hal's shields with ease. Meaning he has more than enough power to force push or force choke, GL out of consciousness. Luke has used Electric Judgement(as seen in the pic) to 1 shot Yuuzhan Vong(Force resistant beings), survived falling from Atmosphere, has become Invisible to Force-users who can react at near or at light speeds. Jacen Solo, his nephew, said he saw Luke moving his lightsaber so fast it was like he was using 20 sabers IIRC

But I'll bring in @JediXman to finish the rest.

true hal could put him in a bubble and bfr him.but heres the question do u believe a full power luke will give hal that oppertunity i dont think so.but i do believe hal cant take some wins i change my mind hal dose have some speed to him but i still say luke 7/out of 10 still

@earthquake_2123: Isn't Jedi telepathy just using the Force to imitate true telepathy? And the Yuuzhan Vong are Force resistant because they come from a different galaxy. The Force exists only in that one galaxy, so wouldn't Luke be powerless in a neutral galaxy?

I think that the only real way for Luke to win is to just speed blitz, which he is capable of. Hal leaves himself open quite a bit.

It's really a matter of who strikes first.

@jedixman: Meaning I agree of course.

@mikex20: No force telepathy IS true telepathy. Sidious' Force TP mind controlled a planet of 20 billion with one swoop effortlessly and Luke got way stronger then him when he became Grandmaster. Also the Force is Force=Life. The Force surrounds every living thing. Luke exudes the force(he even went into the state of Oneness with it). He is the strongest force user in the history of Star Wars and his dad was the highest-force sensitive being in the history of Star Wars since he literally born from the Force, so NO. The Force isn't leaving from him no matter galaxy he is in. Also OP didn't say Luke was restricted of his access to the Force or his abilities or otherwise he has no powers and this is a SPITE thread in favor of Hal. Besides I agree with what JediXman said "it depends on who strikes first". Which both are capable of doing since Luke has sub-light speed reaction time and has used it to absorb blast from AT-AT(camel walkers from Empire Strikes back)

shown here

Essentially this.

About a few other misconceptions in this thread:

And if I recall correctly, Luke's Electric Judgement has only one-shotted Yuuzhan Vong, which does not automatically make it an instakill against everything. Luke has also fought at near-relativistic speeds, but not at light speed itself. Hal not fighting at Flash-level speed is irrelevant because Luke cannot do it either.

I also don't understand where the misconception of "the Force being weakened against strong wills" comes from. Mind tricks fail on sufficiently strong-willed enemies, but there are countless other attacks, a vast majority of whose power levels are determined by the power exerted by the user, not moderated against the will of the target. Targets resisting Force attacks is a measure of their own ability to defend themselves using the Force, or disrupting others' Force abilities - not simply because they are innately powerful when it comes to willpower.

About Force telepathy being a facsimile of true telepathy - telepathy is simply the ability to demonstrate extrasensory psychic contact, which is achievable by the Force. You can't really mimic telepathy, and Force-users using the Force to speak to others telepathically is in no way a facsimile of telepathy, given how it is telepathy.

Luke entering Oneness is an involuntary feat, similar to Force Scream, and therefore is not very applicable in combat scenarios like this. He might enter a state of Oneness again, but there's really no guarantee and if anything it would be unlikely. The Force is not Life itself, the Force creates Life while Life also creates the Force (Silver's blog can explain this in more detail if it appears confusing). And Luke was never "way stronger than Palpatine", even at his prime.

About him being the strongest Force-user - that's not really a canonical fact. It is canon that he is the most powerful Jedi, and he is more powerful than the most powerful Sith (Palpatine) as of feats, but there are beings like Abeloth which are stated to be a dozen times stronger in the Force than Luke, although there's no real evidence to say she actually was. And I believe somewhere that the Ones and Abeloth were stated to be more powerful than anything else aside from Anakin's full potential (although Luke was stated to have become what his father could have, so.....). That's also not taking into account the possibility of the Bedlam Spirits being omnipotent, although I highly doubt it.

The Ones suck.

Just came here to say that...

@jedixman: *Shrug* I don't really care for them - but they were apparently stated to be more powerful than anything save for Skywalker's full potential and Abeloth. But I don't have that source (and the only one stating that is Wookieepedia), so.....

Their combat feats weren't that impressive.

Luke has defeated her on a couple of occasions. The only thing she's got on Luke is immortality. And even that's not true because Luke became a Force ghost so, yeah. By the way, you seem to know your sh*t. Please comment on more Star Wars threads... please. Haha

Since we're using them both at their primes, based on all that I've read, I'd have to give it to Luke because he's faster and he's got unstoppable telepathy. He'd either speed blitz him or mindrape him. And since Hal's will is on par with Luke's ability to command the Force, Luke stomps.

Good battle, guys. Thanks.

This was a mismatch, in my opinion. GM Luke vs. Superman would be a muuuuuch better fight.

Would Hals shields hold up against Emerald Lightning? as Luke has instakilled with it before.

It's not a stomp. And no, Hal stands a better chance at beating Luke then Superman does.

That being said.....I'm giving Luke the majority here.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Woahh Hal has a better chance at beating Luke that Superman?!?! How? I mean, I'm not a DC comics pro so I'm not saying you're wrong, but isn't Superman wayyyyyyyyy more powerful than the Green Lantern?

@thebelltollsforthee: no not nessary gl have beaten kryptonians more then once that being said grandmaster Luke ftw

@edude117: I am well aware that Luke has defeated her before, which is why I said she was stated to be a dozen times stronger in the Force, but there was nothing that proved that.

Going with the Grandmaster on this one. Sorry, Hal.

Is it movie Luke? Since the picture is from the movie. Hal stomps.

They never showed anything in the movie said here, Star Wars movie feats were bullshit. They deflected light bullets with swords, which is impossible, since they had slow ass reaction times and suddenly they deflect light speed bullets like it's nothing.

@sirneko: That picture is definitely not from any movie bro. It's from the EU/Novel/Comic. As the OP states Grandmaster Luke and Luke was only a Jedi Knight in the last movie he was in. Luke, in the pic, is using electric judgement in the Yuuzhan Vong wars.

@ams: Luke has only instakilled some featless Yuuzhan Vong with it. Granted, they do have Force-based resistance, but...

@shootingnova: LoL. They were very feat less

@earthquake_2123: I have a habit of saying "virtually", even when it is "completely". However, they are interchangeable, to an extent.

@sirneko said:

Are you being serious right now? The picture's from Dark Nest III: The Swarm War... not from the movies. lol

Also, just so you guys know, the Yuuzhan Vong he instakilled weren't just your average grunts. They were the Slayers. And yes, they were Force-resistant. Quite a feat, in my opinion.

So, if Luke beats the Green Lantern and, apparently, has an even easier time beating Superman, which DC hero would Luke be neck-and-neck with?

Despero?

Luke's reaction speed has to be at least light speed if not faster. Jedi/Sith deflect blaster bullets with ease. Blaster bullets fly at the speed of light because they're lasers. I mean, Luke's demonstrated feats that require much more speed and precision, but I think blaster bullet deflection is enough to prove my point. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Luke has managed to stop time before for a short period and move unencumbered. I can assure you that that's much, much, much, much, much faster than the speed of light.

As for Oneness, I'm almost positive that it's not involuntary. Yes, you're partially right because he can't have total control over when he enters the state and what he does when he's in the state, like, he can't just be pissed at someone, press a button, and enter Oneness, but he still has a large amount of control over it. All he needs to do is surrender himself to the Force. In Malgus' case, for example, he induced Oneness by murdering Eleena in Deceived. Luke does the same. Obviously not by killing loved ones, but by triggering it via actions and/or situations. And even if I'm wrong and he can't control it at all, fighting someone on such a scale as Hal would make it almost inevitable that Luke would achieve Oneness. He'd have to concentrate on such a level and be so emotionally calm that he'd probably accidentally enter the state.

I think that Superman would be a better match for Luke despite what dccomicsrule2011 said. Supes is much faster, much stronger, and much smarter than the Lantern. Plus, he's got a buttload more fighting experience than the Lantern does. Didn't he train with Mongul -- the best fighter in the entire Universe? Also, Luke would have a harder time trying to dominate Superman's mind because of Clark's mental block or whatever. Luke would mindrape him with no problem if he had to, but he'd definitely have to focus a wee bit more against Superman than against Hal.

I mean, it all comes down to what version of Superman we're using. Yeah, Luke would have a harder time against Hal if we were using New-52 Superman, but any other Superman would give Luke a run for his money.

@glubgluby: I said heroes, not villains. If I wanted Luke to fight a DC villain, I'd just bring in Darkseid or something. But I want Luke to at least stand a chance, y'know?

luke ftw

@thebelltollsforthee: There is no evidence blaster bolts travel at light speed. They don't. Traveling at light speed is theoretically impossible because it means time freezing/reversal and requires an infinite amount of energy. I know SW is sci-fi, but science still has a place in it. Luke only needs to travel at near-relativistic speeds, because his perception of time and the time surrounding other things is altered - other things seem slower to him even while he is already traveling quickly - so it is not compulsory to travel at the speed of light.

Moreso, blaster bolts are not the same as bullets. Regardless, Mace Windu could deflect both blaster bolts and bullets - there is no evidence of his travel at light speed given that he can't. Anakin has only demonstrated sub-light reaction speeds, yet he is clearly capable of deflecting blaster bolts and in fact is equal to Obi-Wan Kenobi in speed, who has deflected bolts from an entire army.

I think you are rather easily over-exaggerating some speeds in SW.

Accidentally entering Oneness essentially means that it is involuntary - Oneness is not something you can simply get. It occurs from surrendering yourself to the Force, but it doesn't always occur. There are many times when people have seemed to almost be merged with the Force but it may not be expressed well as Oneness - take for example Revan's ambiguous (and poorly written) showing in The Old Republic: Revan novel, and Ferus Olin's sensation at the end of The Last of the Jedi: Reckoning. Granted, Malgus's sensation is described well and could very well be "Oneness", although in the past it appears to be a state the Sith are rarely known to experience simply because they do not understand surrendering themselves to the Force - rather they use the Force as a weapon. Generally speaking, you don't get Oneness because you kill somebody, so Malgus's killing of Eleena Daru was an example of him involuntarily achieving such a state. There has been no conscious entering of Oneness - except arguably when you become One with the Force upon death. Anakin's Mortis experience is debatable but he is the Chosen One.

Blaster bolts do travel at the speed of light because - wait for it - they're bolts of concentrated light, i.e. lasers.

Humans can not travel at the speed of light because time for us would stop therefore killing us and even if it's perhaps possible for us to survive, us moving would break the laws of physics because we'd be breaking the universal speed limit (ship moving at light speed + thrusting your arm forward = your arm goes faster than light).

And making a man-made rocket that uses fuel to propel itself to light speed is also nearly impossible as the fuel source would have to be outrageously large. However, traveling light speed/faster than light is theoretically possible for living organisms via wormholes and waves of space/time.

Anyway, my point is, yes, we can not travel at the speed of light, but something tells me that light can travel at the speed of light. And for Luke to deflect and dodge blaster bolts, he'd have to have light speed reactions.

And if you're looking at the movies, they slow down blaster fire in order for us to see the pretty colors and, of course, for the Jedi to not look like hyperactive amphetamine junkies.

I do agree with you, though, that thebelltollsforthee is over exaggerating on a lot of Jedi/Sith feats. The only Force users that have celestial feats, per se, are people like Sidious, Vitiate, Luke, and a few others. Most other Jedi/Sith can maybe push a tree in half or destroy a building. Nothing too crazy.

@edude117: You've basically been reiterating me with your paragraph 2.

Vitiate's only "celestial feats" are done with rituals and enormous amounts of prep (both in time and material). His direct combat feats are nowhere near celestial.

Blaster bolts do not travel at the speed of light - they are bolts of plasma/particle beams, not light. Yes, there is "light" so to speak, but it is not the light itself that really does the harm in the first place, and if you want a comparison, things like lightning do not travel at the speed of light.

Once again, Anakin has deflected numerous blaster bolts (in fact his speed is equal to that of Obi-Wan who has deflected bolts from entire armies) whilst he has only demonstrated sub-light reaction speeds.

There are many other EU debaters on this forum besides me, and many of them are regarded as some of the best. If you were to ask Silver, JXM, or DC, you would find that "Jedi do not travel at light speeds" would be their response.

luke ftw bigtime

i really cant stop commiting in this battle very interestung

lol Hal Jordan slaughters luke with ease.

This is a Joke, right? Hal slaughters with absolute ease.