GoW Thor vs GoW Zeus

Rules

• No prep time.
• Win via Death or other means.
• Both are in character.
• Both have their weapons.
• Who wins?

Location

The God of Strength slaughters all of the Olympians at the same time.

Really how good is this Thor??

Thor one shots

Based on what I've heard, Thor.

Thor solo's the pantheon all at once.

Thor. Bruno has clearly been overruled if the codex and feats in game are anything to go by.

Thor solos the entire pantheon with ease

Thor wins.

The game producers said Kratos was very rusty vs Baldur in the previous game and they said Kratos started to train between the previous game and current game, after that he obviously got much better.

Thor casually killed prime Kratos and brought him back to life to see more from him.

Odin also told Thor before killing him, that he should kill Kratos, knowing Odin's knowledge and his wisdom, he asked from Thor to do that because he knew Thor is capable of killing Kratos, not because Odin wanted Thor to die vs. Kratos.

So both Thor or Kratos > Zeus.

Multiversal bonk to the head, gg no re.

Thor but with hard-diff.

Blade of Olympus makes it harder for Thor. But he still wins via better scaling.

Thor wins, but let's be honest, if there was never determined power scaling between Zeus and Baldur, Norse look less impressive than Olympians

I honestly believe the intent is simply Zeus = Odin, and we may get a statement about something close to this from Barlog soon. Especially since they implied Greek magic is superior to Norse magic many times in Ragnarok

@erkan12:

Thor casually killed prime Kratos and brought him back to life to see more from him.

Thor killed a Kratos who wasn't going all-out as was stated & implied during the entire fight. And that was done after a decent skirmish.

The real Kratos only returned for that one punch at the end when Atreus was mentioned. Both were holding back massively. But Thor less so since he was expecting OG Kratos to be throwing hands.

Odin also told Thor before killing him, that he should kill Kratos, knowing Odin's knowledge and his wisdom, he asked from Thor to do that because he knew Thor is capable of killing Kratos

Odin isn't all knowing. He THOUGHT Thor could do it. But he was proven wrong. An all-out Kratos won their fight.

Odin underestimated Kratos. The most he knows about Kratos is that he's the dude who screwed his homeworld and killed his fellow Gods. That's further proven when he asks Kratos whether he knows what it feels like for people to pray to him.

Odin isn't a reliable source to use.

With that said, Thor is indeed > Zeus. But it's not a stomp or a low-diff win for him.

Zeus uberstomps his ass. A weaker, softer Kratos armed with shitty weapons was always holding when fighting Thor and he still clapped his ass when he got serious. Zeus would literally pummel him with punches.

However, if it was Odin fighting in his place instead he would win. Odin is simply superior and couldn’t be taken down by a single god.

Now that you brought it up. Why the hell doesn't Odin or the Norse Gods have their own version of The Sisters of Fate/The Threads of Fate, despite having a crap ton of magical knowledge on their side?

Freya, and even Mimir, who is one of, if not the most knowledgeable individual in the Norse realms, was shocked at the concept of Kratos dying and going back in time (Start at 0:20):

They're clearly better magic users. Yet changing Fate was considered damn near impossible. And made Odin almost go insane.

While it was just as easy as calling a Pizza place for Zeus & the Gods of Olympus, thanks to the Fates being their loyal dogs.

Zeus

Sorry for being a month late but I think I've gotten a comprehensive explanation for this , the first future was for Kratos and Thor to battle at Ragnarok , Both Kratos and Thor will likely die , which would break Loki and turn him to Odin.

now it gets tricky here , this future was changed mainly because there is no fate , this future happened because as Matt explains , people are too ignorant and predictable to actually change and thus the Norns expected Kratos to be selfish and treat Thor like just another animal to butcher and thus

• 2. The Norns actually said there 'is' no such thing as fate. It's just that people refuse to change, so their actions are predictable which makes it seem like fate. Kratos averted his "fate" because he opened his heart, fought for something instead of vengeance, and spared Thor when he could have tried to kill him.

so practically , Fate is a fundamentally different concept between Norse and Greek God of War, in Greek its a cosmology spanning concept that is inserted in every point in time and reality while in Norse that doesn't exist , Norse fate is just either seeing the future or powerful prediction based on behaviourial patterns , the future the giants and norns saw/predicted was of Kratos returning to his selfish state where he tries to murder Thor for his selfish reasons and he ends up dying ( likely that both him and Thor end up killing each other as Kratos implies can happen in his journal ) but rather then being selfish he was selfless and fought to spare and redeem Thor and thus they both ended up surviving.

basically "fate" doesn't exist in Norse , just futures that can be changed via changing yourself.

@maulsmacker: Thanks for clearing.

So from what I understand, Norse world don't have any kind of time-hax, and flow of time is uncontrollable, and Norns are just nigh-omniscent beings with really great prediction skills.

@heiqn: Norns may have something up with them as they divide the Norse cosmology into literal acts , protagonists and antagonists but Yes unlike the sisters who can control every single point in time , past/present/future, the Norns cannot even change pivotal points about the world , the Norns are just insanely precognitive and intelligent beings who know almost all things but don't control any.

Thor curbstomps Zeus and the Greek pantheon all together. Like how is this debatable?

• Prime Kratos described Thor's AP is more powerful than Zeus's in the game's codex
• The same codex states Kratos is grateful that their fight ended, implying it wouldn't have ended well for him
• Thor killed Prime Kratos while holding back, Zeus got killed by a much weaker Kratos
• Thor sent the World Serpent back in time and also fought off Surtur (who's the most powerful being so far), while Zeus with his strongest attack couldn't knock out an injured Gaia lel
• Mimir who knows Zeus and knows Kratos killed him didn't think Kratos can kill Thor (proven to be true later on)
• And finally, why would Santa Monica set up a main antagonist weaker than a main antagonist from an old game, who Kratos clapped 3 times, and he grew stronger in the newer games? Lol

Forget about Thor, Baldur folds Zeus

Yeah but Kratos got weapons like Draupnir and Leviathan

If Kratos doesn't recall Draupnir Thor kills him with a single squeeze of his palm

And Leviathan is imbued with the World Serpent's poison

God of war ragnarok retards be like:

@Krisbishop , @Frozen , @Owie

Anyways Zeus stomps thor, scratch that zeus solos norse pantheon combined.

and the basis for that would be?

Standard Molt arguments at play. No he isn't stomping the entire Greek Pantheon together and there's no basis for this because he simply doesn't scale that high.

• Kratos doesn't state this, he says that Thor's blows are 'as heavy as' any blow Kratos has faced before. Not 'more powerful'.
• It wouldn't have ended well for either, not just Kratos.
• Are we forgetting that the entire Midgard fight is rubbing in that Kratos is also restraining himself massively?
• He sent the Serpent back in time by splintering the Yggdrasil, which doesn't even exist in the Greek World. He didn't even clash with Ragnarok on-screen but I suppose it's fair to assume he held him off. I'd wager tearing someone's arm in half with a single attack is much more impressive than knocking them out but sure.
• Valid
• Valid

Zeus obliterates Baldur cursed or not. Thor wins here against Base Zeus though.

@molt: 100% agree with everything you said.

The game lore/feats/codex and even Cory Barlog's statement implied SEVERAL times that the Norse Gods (Baldur, Thor and Odin only) are far above Zeus and the others.

Also, in the prophecy itself, Thor was "destined" to kill Kratos and this only changed when he had a change of heart and found a purpose to fight for. Otherwise, Kratos would be dead now. In my opinion, Kratos is superior to Thor but Odin beats them both:

Power Scaling - Odin > Kratos >= Thor > Baldur > Zeus (by game statements pointed out by Molt, not fanfics).

Now, on the last comment above:

• Kratos doesn't state this, he says that Thor's blows are 'as heavy as' any blow Kratos has faced before. Not 'more powerful'.

Your statement is partially correct! The point is that by the CODEX sentence above, we can scale Thor to TOP1 in attack power. The sentence "as heavy as any" puts him in TOP1 tied with someone else at least.

But we are talking about a Thor that was holding back. He even said in the last fight "Now I'm allowed to kill you, Kratos" entering in that God of Thunder berserker mode where he had lightining all over his body.

So, if we assume that Fight2 Thor is superior to the first encounter version, then we can confirm that Thor is indeed the most powerful enemy Kratos faced. Because he scaled up Thor to TOP1 before facing him at max power.

• It wouldn't have ended well for either, not just Kratos.

I agree with you, sir!

• Are we forgetting that the entire Midgard fight is rubbing in that Kratos is also restraining himself massively?

I disagree, if someone was holding back in the first fight, it was Thor, as I mentioned above. Odin didn't allow him to kill Kratos.

Would you be holding back in a fight to the point that you get killed? Because Thor killed Kratos and ressurected him. That would be a dumb move by Kratos to let himself be killed. That's why I believe he was not holding back, Thor was.

Kratos got superior in the end, surpassing Thor mainly because he found a purpose to fight for, to fight for Faye's dream and Atreus' future. And also he got some serious power scaling improvement with upgraded Leviathan Axe and Draupnir spear.

As Kratos' mentioned: "anger is a powerful asset when you can control it". The last Kratos vs Thor fight is a clear evidence of this. Thor couldn't control his rage while Kratos' mastered it.

Again, just to finish and repeating myself: Thor is the most powerful enemy Kratos faced (except for Odin, I believe) because he said that a restrained Thor version that was holding back was on the top1 spot (maybe tied with someone else) of his enemies list. So we can assume a full power Thor is definetely on the TOP1, surpassing anyone else.

@bzsr28:

The game lore/feats/codex and even Cory Barlog's statement implied SEVERAL times that the Norse Gods (Baldur, Thor and Odin only) are far above Zeus and the others.

Also, in the prophecy itself, Thor was "destined" to kill Kratos and this only changed when he had a change of heart and found a purpose to fight for. Otherwise, Kratos would be dead now. In my opinion, Kratos is superior to Thor but Odin beats them both

Power Scaling - Odin > Kratos >= Thor > Baldur > Zeus (by game statements pointed out by Molt, not fanfics).

while I do agree with Odin being the greatest villain and Thor being above Zeus , Baldur being above Zeus is lolworthy and far from true , Zeus/Baldur/Odin e.t.c. are on a whole different league then any other god , no contest is there

Baldur lost to a massively restrained rusty Kratos without the Blades of Chaos at the start of the game while being completely immortal

Your statement is partially correct! The point is that by the CODEX sentence above, we can scale Thor to TOP1 in attack power. The sentence "as heavy as any" puts him in TOP1 tied with someone else at least.

But we are talking about a Thor that was holding back. He even said in the last fight "Now I'm allowed to kill you, Kratos" entering in that God of Thunder berserker mode where he had lightining all over his body.

So, if we assume that Fight2 Thor is superior to the first encounter version, then we can confirm that Thor is indeed the most powerful enemy Kratos faced. Because he scaled up Thor to TOP1 before facing him at max power.

Fair.

I disagree, if someone was holding back in the first fight, it was Thor, as I mentioned above. Odin didn't allow him to kill Kratos.

Would you be holding back in a fight to the point that you get killed? Because Thor killed Kratos and ressurected him. That would be a dumb move by Kratos to let himself be killed. That's why I believe he was not holding back, Thor was

No, he was definitely holding back. Kratos holding back is particularly emphasised in pretty much all the dialogue with Thor in the Midgard fight. They were both holding back.

You insult me holding back like this.

Let me see the monster inside.

Stop holding back!

I'm not leaving until I see the real you. Get up!

Show me who you are!

Let the god of war out. Let me see him!

Who are you! Show me! Show me the killer of gods.

I see now why my sons fell to you. Even this, lesser version of you.

(Upon Kratos hitting him with his full force) There he is...There's the god of war.

It also wouldn't make sense for an all-out Kratos to go from being physically smacked around and dominated by a holding back Thor to matching and overcoming a bloodlusted full power Thor on Asgard. And yes it was dumb for Kratos to get himself killed, which was likely as a result of underestimating Thor. Not to mention we see the difference between Kratos restraining himself and one who isn't restraining himself. In the first fight he can barely faze him with his blows and Thor has him entirely under his control and yet with the final blow in that battle Kratos pretty heavily staggers Thor and knocks his tooth out. At the beginning of second fight when Thor has Kratos in a hold Kratos is able to pretty much immediately force Thor to let go of him

Kratos got superior in the end, surpassing Thor mainly because he found a purpose to fight for, to fight for Faye's dream and Atreus' future. And also he got some serious power scaling improvement with upgraded Leviathan Axe and Draupnir spear.

It was nowhere near a 'serious' power scaling improvement. The main difference between the two fights was Kratos' level of restraint with his power.

Don't see Baldur being above or even close to Zeus at all honestly.

@kratoswins: Yeah, it's a matter of perspective I believe.

Even tough we agree that both are more powerful in their last fight, with Kratos being slightly superior in the end, I see the text below in a different way:

"You insult me holding back like this.

Let me see the monster inside.

Stop holding back!

I'm not leaving until I see the real you. Get up!

Show me who you are!

Let the god of war out. Let me see him!

Who are you! Show me! Show me the killer of gods.

I see now why my sons fell to you. Even this, lesser version of you.

(Upon Kratos hitting him with his full force) There he is...There's the god of war."

The way I interpreted was more like Thor bullying Kratos during the fight, in a way to demoralize him, like we see sometimes in UFC or even other sports.

I didn't consider this as Kratos holding back because in the end he got killed. There was no sense to hold back unless you wanted to leave your kid as an orphan. I believe this is just Thor profile of trying to diminish his opponents morally.

I believe that: Full power Kratos > Full power Thor > Zeus.

But anyway, it's just a matter of perspective and in the end we are defending the same logic. :)

no there are probably subconscious holding back cuz his rage allows him to fight more viciously. Kratos is weaker than his old self. the greek was stronger than the norse

Cory Barlog personally debunked this

I didn't consider this as Kratos holding back because in the end he got killed. There was no sense to hold back unless you wanted to leave your kid as an orphan. I believe this is just Thor profile of trying to diminish his opponents morally.

Him dying doesn't mean he wasn't holding back. It indicates that Kratos underestimated Thor's power or that him dying would be better than going back to what he used to be. Either way it was foolish to do so. He holds back all the time because he doesn't want to lose control which starts happening throughout the story of Ragnarok where he states that he's going back to his old ways and is particularly highlighted with the Heimdall fight. What Thor says has truth in it, which is proven with the punch at the end of the Midgard fight being eons more powerful than anything he'd thrown at him prior to that. Where Thor was pretty easily tanking Kratos' blows and still maintaining control over him in their grapples, the last punch (where he isn't holding back) staggers him pretty heavily and knocks a tooth out.

I believe that: Full power Kratos > Full power Thor > Zeus.

That's logical.

But anyway, it's just a matter of perspective and in the end we are defending the same logic. :)

Fair enough.

Zeus solo

smh

@ready_4_madness: True, but there are circumstances for why he was winning, like Thor having already fought Surtur & Jurgumngandr, Kratos's OP gear at EOS and the fact he changed the fate; if he and Thor continued fighting, Kratos would have died as depicted in the mural. Without delving into too much details, the franchise portrays them as equals. Either way, Zeus is a scrub.

zeus stomps thor

https://youtu.be/NRaMfKr6hdE

this video basically explains how zeus is stronger than thor, whilst also explaining young kratos vs old kratos.

kratos was likely at his weakest that he's ever been in a while when he fought thor for the first time.

the second fight between kratos and thor, kratos tanks a bloodthirsted thor attack.

after fighting thor for the first time, kratos states that thor hit him with a full attack that was "as heavy as any i have felt"

at face value this'd mean that thor > zeus

but, this was after fimbulwinter had been around for a long time. when baldur died, fimbulwinter began.

meaning kratos had been going through it for years. fimbulwinter weakens all of kratos' and atreus' upgrades.

on top of being weakened by fimbulwinter, kratos fought thor without his blades of chaos, that are imbued with primordial flames and amps kratos. this amp from the blades of chaos is huge btw.

ouranos survived the universe spawning war, spawned the titans, cronos, his son, then killed ouranos. meaning cronos must've had been stronger or at least durable enough to live on through a war that spawned a whole universe. zeus then kills cronos, his father, and overthrows him. cronos was lifting the world pillar, which also meant he was carrying the living world, AND the infinite cosmos. when cronos fell, it was up to atlas to hold the world pillar, only adding to the idea that zeus is a universal threat.

after the greek realm died, so did kratos' magic, as he stated himself, so he had less options to use against thor than he did against zeus.

This is all really thrown into the water though when Thor splinters Yggdrasil when not even blood-lusted. Zeus is strong, believe me. Not Yggdrasil strong, at least from the showings we are seen.

do we know how durable the yggdrasil is?

@aldric: Contains infinite timelines, infinite separate spacetime continuums, and transcends concepts. Can only assume durable. Also, each branch is infinite.

Zeus probably, it took the power of hope and the blade of Olympus along with multiple divine weapons to put that bastard down. A holding back kratos beat Thor

if not having killer intent means Kratos is holding back , then he would've had died had he not "held back" against Thor.

Either Way, Thor is stronger while Zeus is more haxxed, they are in the same league.

Don't see how Fimbulwinter meant that Kratos is weaker than before when we have Eric stating twice that Kratos has been training the whole time and building himself back up. The Blades amping Kratos' physical stats is also something I'm not entirely convinced of. There seems to be no real difference in physical strength between Kratos with and Kratos without the blades.

I'm gonna have to agree with the general consensus and say Thor takes the dub on this one. Baldur vs. Zeus is still debatable IMO, and Thor is DEFINITELY stronger than Baldur. Between scaling, statements, in-game statements, simple logic, everything points towards Thor being the more powerful between the 2.

May have to do with the Blades granting Kratos power with every singular kill.

If Kratos brought all his gears from the Greek pantheon, I think he could've destroyed norse with ease.

Thor fra but Also because he wanted smoke with Kratos even with the Knowledge he wiped an Entire Pantheon