Gotenks vs 100% frieza,sp cell and kid buu

gotenks post-training room of spirit and time he starts in his base form but can access ssj 1-3

The fusion limit is not 30 minutes but 1 hour for him

Morals are on

Gotenks has full intel on villains

No busting planet

1 senzu bean

Take place at cell games

Who wins and why?

Again, most people will disagree but Kid Buu solos. Goku wanted both Gohan and Gotenks to help "fight too" against Kid Buu, and Vegeta even disagreed, considering the Spirit Bomb their only chance:

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Gotenks casually one shots Frieza and Cell though, they're irrelevant.

Team

Gotenks was giving super buu a beating

Gotenks.

@lettsplay10: with super ghost kamikaze?

Gotenks fodderize everyone here.

Mismatch... Giving his fusion an extra 30 minutes adds insult to injury.

@werkudoro: yes he can use that on them too and one shot every one except a big maybe kid buu

Gotenks wins this if he takes it seriously but he will have major trouble with Kid Buu and will lose if he plays around.

Kid buu solos

@anime2114 said:

Again, most people will disagree but Kid Buu solos. Goku wanted both Gohan and Gotenks to help "fight too" against Kid Buu, and Vegeta even disagreed, considering the Spirit Bomb their only chance:

Gallery

Gotenks casually one shots Frieza and Cell though, they're irrelevant.

I feel like that is just bad writing though, because it's pretty clear if ssj3 Gotenks, ssj3 Goku, and Gohan all teamed up they would wreck kid Buu.

@alextheboss said:

@anime2114 said:

Again, most people will disagree but Kid Buu solos. Goku wanted both Gohan and Gotenks to help "fight too" against Kid Buu, and Vegeta even disagreed, considering the Spirit Bomb their only chance:

Gallery

Gotenks casually one shots Frieza and Cell though, they're irrelevant.

I feel like that is just bad writing though, because it's pretty clear if ssj3 Gotenks, ssj3 Goku, and Gohan all teamed up they would wreck kid Buu.

I disagree. We never saw a serious, full power Kid Buu until the Spirit Bomb.

Goku even admits that he was wrong about Buu's power and that Buu was just toying with them, dragging it out for fun:

Gallery

It may be bad writing but it's still the only statement we have about his hypothetical full power (considering Goku admitted his previous assumptions were wrong).

The fact is, bad writing or not, Goku considered Kid Buu worth fighting together with Gohan and Gotenks, and that Vegeta even disagreed, considering the Spirit Bomb there only chance.

@anime2114: Vegeta also thought that ssj3 Goku at full power could kill Buu.

So where do you place Kid Buu? Between super Buu and Buuhan?

@alextheboss: Pretty much. I have a wider range though. He could be anywhere between above Gohan and below Vegito. Could be weaker than Buutenks, could be stronger than Buuhan (not that I'd actually debate for that).

All we know about his full power is that he's above Gohan, so that's where I put him.

At ssj 3, Gotenks is stronger than everyone here. He stomps if he gets serious and doesn't waste time at his lower levels. He has an hour now apparently, so no problem.

People still think Kid Buu is above Super Buu? Ha.

This is just a Gotenks vs Kid Buu. Gotenks wrecks tho.

super buu =/= kid buu.

it was even stated that the most dangerous part of Kid Buu was not his pure power but his recklessness and unpredictability.

he was said to be the most dangerous version of Buu because, unlike super Buu who wanted a good fight, he simply does not care, he is like a child, and when the child is done playing, he just lashes out.

For example. Super buu was willing to wait patiently(mostly) for piccolo to bring him to the huperbolic time chamber to have him fight gotenks. kid buu? first thing he does it bust the planet.

Super buu was sitting there trying to taunt gohan during their fight, and when he was not winning, he would get infuriated and lash out.

Kid buu is the exact opposite, he doesnt care if he gets hurt or blown away, he doesnt take time to monologue or taunt (for the most part, he did like to play with vegeta/fat buu for a bit)

sure they would vastly over power kid buu, but so did goku for the most part, the problem is kid bus's insane regen and ability to seemingly never tire out. it seems like without fat buu(and subsequently the Fat Kai he absorbed that turned him into fat buu) he has even less of a limit on his Ki and regeneration.

where as super buu and even buuhan seemed to slow down and take longer to regenerate as the battles went on, kid buu did not seem to suffer this. he is basally evil in its purest form.

@chair-sama: super buu would swap kid buu away like a fly

@lettsplay10: I don't think so. Super Buu and Kid buu seem to be semi close to each other. Goku said he couldn't beat super buu, but he couldn't beat kid buu either.

@justsomerandomkid: I'm not saying Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu, but if he isn't then it's a pretty big plot hole for Goku not to just use IT to get Gohan to casually stomp Kid Buu.

Gotenks finds a way to lose. Saiyan's Yamcha right there, in terms of incompetence anyway

@alextheboss: Almost every Comic/Anime/Manga/Show has plot holes. Especially, DBZ. It's obvious Toriyama just wanted the show to end with Goku saving the day.

@justsomerandomkid: Yes I know, I'm just saying. There really isn't solid proof Super Buu is stronger either. Imo it goes Fat Buu<Kid Buu<=>Super Buu<Buuhan

The only canon statement we have on Kid Buu's power that isn't later admitted to be false is Goku wanting both Gohan AND Gotenks to fight with them, and Vegeta denying it, considering the Spirit Bomb their only chance:

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That was after admitting Kid Buu was stronger than they thought and that he was just toying with them for fun:

Gallery

That's canon. It happened. Call it bad writing, inconsistent (even though it's not), or whatever, but it's all we've got to base his power on.

Kid Buu>Gohan is a fact.

The manga makes it pretty clear that Super Boo is superior to Kid Boo:

Vegeta's statement doesn't contradict this in the slightest. Just because his plan didn't involve Gotenks and Gohan fighting Boo, doesn't mean either of them wouldn't easily defeat Boo.

Gotenks still stomps.

@thekinfing: stomps 3 of them at once?

@werkudoro: With ease.

@thekinfing: but kid buu give ssj3 goku a hard time

@thedarkpaladin: Vegeta was commenting more on his size. Not to mention Vegeta was completely proven wrong when he and Goku got his but kicked.. If Goku and Vegeta left super Buu they would of died, if they fought kid Buu without outside help they would of lost. Imo there isn't enough evidence to say who is stronger, though post absorptions Super Buu is almost definitely stronger.

No he isn't much stronger than ssj3 Goku. I could see him winning but not stomping.

@alextheboss: He is MUCH stronger than SSJ3 Goku, Team 2 gets stomped.

@alextheboss:

Vegeta was commenting more on his size. Not to mention Vegeta was completely proven wrong when he and Goku got his but kicked..

Vegeta was the only one to comment on his size. Goku flat-out states that they should be able to handle that version of Boo. Even in the previous page, Goku mentions that Boo's power was actually increasing as he transformed into the Buff version, yet, felt at ease when he became Kid Boo:

If Goku and Vegeta left super Buu they would of died, if they fought kid Buu without outside help they would of lost.

Goku didn't want to risk fighting Super Boo without the fusion technique, but seemed to believe he could beat kid Boo without it. If I recall, he said he could gather enough strength to beat Kid Boo in a minute.

Imo there isn't enough evidence to say who is stronger, though post absorptions Super Buu is almost definitely stronger.

I disagree. Quite a few statements and panels indicate that Super Boo is the superior between the two, and there isn't much that contradicts it.

No he isn't much stronger than ssj3 Goku. I could see him winning but not stomping.

Gotenks should be quite a bit stronger than Goku, tbh.

@werkudoro: SSJ3 Goku isn't comparable in any way to SSJ3 Gotenks, fusion is OP.

@thekinfing: but wasn't ssj3 gotenks(before he absorbed by buu) stated himself that mystic goham stronger than him we know mystic gohan stronger than ssj3 goku. My thought: mystic gohan>ssj3 goku=ssj3 gotenks

@werkudoro:

No. Gohan was vastly stronger than SSJ3 Goku, when Goku fought Evil Fat Buu he said that even a stronger opponent would come and fight him later on, he was referring to Gotenks, but at this point in time he didn't knew that the kids could go SSJ3, so Goku admitted that SSJ Gotenks > him, and this was before he trained in the ROSAT, after they trained Piccolo comented that he was even stronger than before, alot stronger, lets lowball and say he became only 2 times stronger so we get that:

Post-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks>>>Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks> Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku

Then we get his fight with Super Buu, while at SSJ Gotenks couldn't even faze Super Buu, but after he became SSJ3 he was fairly above, I won't use multiplyers on this one, but I think we can both agree that the SSJ3 boost is quite a big boost now we get:

SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu>>>>>>Post-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks>>>Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks> Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku

But Gotenks was acting like Gotenks and he couldn't kill Super Buu, but then Gohan came and smack around like he was nothing,Piccolo once again mentioned how huge the power that was approaching was, something he wouldn't have done if it was lower to that of SSJ3. Now how much was the difference between Gohan and Super Buu? To be honest I can't really tell, but I feel that 2x as strong is a pretty solid guess.

Gohan>>SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu>>>>>>Post-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks>>>Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks> Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku

If Gohan and Goku would of have fought at the end of the Buu Saga Gohan would have one shotted him withouth much problems, saying that Gohan wasn't much stronger that Goku is just wrong.

Also, Goku didn't train during the 6 months between the end of The Buu Saga and BoG, in the first episode of Super we see him doing field work, and saying that Goku became 2x as strong is in 6 months is also wrong, on multiple times we have seen that characters fail to increase their power by that much in much more time, example: The Z Fighter on the 3 year gap before the start of The Android Saga or Vegeta during the 7 year gap between The end of The Cell Saga and start of the Buu Saga(To be fair Vegeta got more than 2x stronger, but he certainly didn't do in 6 months, and unlike Goku, Vegeta trained every single day, except for the period of time before getting back his ''pride'')

gotenks kills them

@thedarkpaladin said:

The manga makes it pretty clear that Super Boo is superior to Kid Boo:

Vegeta's statement doesn't contradict this in the slightest. Just because his plan didn't involve Gotenks and Gohan fighting Boo, doesn't mean either of them wouldn't easily defeat Boo.

1. Vegeta was referring to his size, not power.

2. Goku already said after he fought Fat Buu that Buu's power is like a lie and hard to sense right.

3. That was debunked later anyway, when Goku admitted Kid Buu was stronger than he thought and was just toying with them for fun:

Gallery

4. Goku wanted both Gohan AND Gotenks to fight with them, proving that Kid Buu's stronger than either of them separatly:

Gallery

No he isn't. Where is your evidence? In an interview Toriyama said Gotenks will be stronger than Goku but by a very noticeable amount.

Ssj3 Goku<Super Buu<=ssj3 Gotenks

@alextheboss: Your point being?

@thedarkpaladin:

Vegeta was the only one to comment on his size. Goku flat-out states that they should be able to handle that version of Boo. Even in the previous page, Goku mentions that Boo's power was actually increasing as he transformed into the Buff version, yet, felt at ease when he became Kid Boo:

But then later Goku got his butt kicked by Kid Buu and admitted he couldn't win. I agree Kid Buu is probably a little weaker, but not by a lot. Kid Buu<=Super Buu<buff Buu

Goku didn't want to risk fighting Super Boo without the fusion technique, but seemed to believe he could beat kid Boo without it. If I recall, he said he could gather enough strength to beat Kid Boo in a minute.

He thought it was unfair to fight Kid Buu fused because he wasn't fused himself.

I disagree. Quite a few statements and panels indicate that Super Boo is the superior between the two, and there isn't much that contradicts it.

I'm pretty sure the anime outright says Kid Buu is stronger.

Gotenks should be quite a bit stronger than Goku, tbh.

Not much evidence for it though.

@thekinfing: Goku couldn't beat Kid Buu and Gotenks isn't much stronger than Goku and he was about to lose to Super Buu before Gohan jumped in. Kid Buu's regen will make it hard for Gotenks to win and with Cell and Frieza for back up and Gotenk's kid like nature he is bound to screw up. If he was blood lusted this would be a different fight.

@alextheboss:

No. Gohan was vastly stronger than SSJ3 Goku, when Goku fought Evil Fat Buu he said that even a stronger opponent would come and fight him later on, he was referring to Gotenks, but at this point in time he didn't knew that the kids could go SSJ3, so Goku admitted that SSJ Gotenks > him, and this was before he trained in the ROSAT, after they trained Piccolo comented that he was even stronger than before, alot stronger, lets lowball and say he became only 2 times stronger so we get that:

Post-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks>>>Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks> Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku

Then we get his fight with Super Buu, while at SSJ Gotenks couldn't even faze Super Buu, but after he became SSJ3 he was fairly above, I won't use multiplyers on this one, but I think we can both agree that the SSJ3 boost is quite a big boost now we get:

SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu>>>>>>Post-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks>>>Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks> Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku

But Gotenks was acting like Gotenks and he couldn't kill Super Buu, but then Gohan came and smack around like he was nothing,Piccolo once again mentioned how huge the power that was approaching was, something he wouldn't have done if it was lower to that of SSJ3. Now how much was the difference between Gohan and Super Buu? To be honest I can't really tell, but I feel that 2x as strong is a pretty solid guess.

Gohan>>SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu>>>>>>Post-ROSAT SSJ Gotenks>>>Pre-Rosat SSJ Gotenks> Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku

If Gohan and Goku would of have fought at the end of the Buu Saga Gohan would have one shotted him withouth much problems, saying that Gohan wasn't much stronger that Goku is just wrong.

Also, Goku didn't train during the 6 months between the end of The Buu Saga and BoG, in the first episode of Super we see him doing field work, and saying that Goku became 2x as strong is in 6 months is also wrong, on multiple times we have seen that characters fail to increase their power by that much in much more time, example: The Z Fighter on the 3 year gap before the start of The Android Saga or Vegeta during the 7 year gap between The end of The Cell Saga and start of the Buu Saga(To be fair Vegeta got more than 2x stronger, but he certainly didn't do in 6 months, and unlike Goku, Vegeta trained every single day, except for the period of time before getting back his ''pride'')

@anime2114:

1. Already addressed this above. Whether Vegeta was making fun of his size or not doesn't change the fact that Goku clearly felt confident in taking him on without having to fuse, something he wasn't willing to do against Super Boo.

2. When did he say this? Regardless, it was debunked when Goku noticed that Boo became stronger as he was transforming into his Buff state.

3. Except that isn't what he said in the manga, which takes precedence over the anime entirely. Goku also said that he would be able to defeat Boo if he had just 1 minute to gather his energy in both the manga and anime.

4. ...That doesn't prove Boo is stronger than either of them seperatly, and your scans didn't say anything about Gohan or Gotenks fighting 2 on 1 against Boo. They were taking turns anyway.

@thekinfing:

No. Gohan was vastly stronger than SSJ3 Goku

Pretty sure I said Gotenks not Gohan. Either way Gohan is probably only around 50% stronger than Goku.

when Goku fought Evil Fat Buu he said that even a stronger opponent would come and fight him later on, he was referring to Gotenks,

He was just saying that to get Buu excited and Goku was lying the entire time about his power. He wanted everyone to think Gotenks could win but he didn't want them to know he could easily beat fat Buu. If he said that Gotenks won't be as strong everyone would know Goku could either win or Gotenks would have not chance.

Goku admitted that SSJ Gotenks > him

He lied.

Pretty much the rest of your argument is based off of Goku's lie so there isn't much reason to counter it.

ssj Gotenks<<ssj3 Goku<Super Buu<=ssj3 Gotenks<Gohan

@alextheboss: Whatever you think, I don't care for this argument anymore.

@alextheboss:

But then later Goku got his butt kicked by Kid Buu and admitted he couldn't win. I agree Kid Buu is probably a little weaker, but not by a lot. Kid Buu<=Super Buu<buff Buu

I wouldn't say he got his but kicked. They seems to be fighting pretty evenly if anything, but Boo did have an advantage due to his unusual stamina and energy reserves. At least we can agree on the last point, though.

He thought it was unfair to fight Kid Buu fused because he wasn't fused himself.

Goku wanted to fuse with Vegeta before they even realized that Fat Boo was inside Super Boo. He even scolds Vegeta for breaking the Potara after saying they wouldn't be a match for Boo without it.

I'm pretty sure the anime outright says Kid Buu is stronger.

The manga takes precedence over the anime. Besides, doesn't Old Kai say Kid Boo is the strongest version of Boo in the anime? That would suggest he's stronger than both Buu tends and Buuhan, which is ridiculous.

Not much evidence for it though.

Other than having a clear upper hand on Super Boo, didn't Goku say SSJ Gotenks was stronger than him, or was that an anime line only?