Gold Experience Requiem Vs Yhwach

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JOVIOLMA

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So you do this meme and don't tag me ? You are dead to me now.

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BabyHoldMyHand

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#152  Edited By BabyHoldMyHand

@sophia89 said:

@beaconofstrength: I would like to remind you of the chew force and the yat force, they both spawned hundreds of mismatches with lots of viners participating and joking in them. That is the same as what is happening here. Bleach fans have posted that:

  1. Aizen's KS would work on anyone until proven otherwise(Despite KS never being used on anyone with TP defense), and it is an instant win.

This is why KS is so different. It won't make sense to those who keep comparing it to Genjutsu just because it controls the 5 senses. It has the same function, but different rules. Here is KS used by Tokinada from the Bleach light novel sequel.

From the pages 244-245:

Tokinada tried to activate Kyoka Suigetsu again, but something was hindering the release of its Shikai.

"Do you remember how Kyoka Suigetsu gets disabled?"

This time it was Aura who spoke; a small smile on her face, her voice emotionless.

Kyoka Suigetsu was an extremely powerful zanpakuto that provided the wielder with absolute superiority once activated. However, it had one single weakness. As long as the target is touching the blade from the front, it is impossible to activate 'complete hypnosis'. Had it been Aizen, it would have been possible to keep the others in check by maintaining the Shikai; the condition being that the opponent had to witness the moment of release of the Shikai just once. Since it was being used by someone other than Aizen, someone whose reiatsu was lower than Aizen's, another weakness of Kyoka Suigetsu is born. The stronger the reiatsu of the opponent, the initial condition of the Shikai itself changed accordingly. Tokinada had gone to great lengths to dexterously display the moment of release of the Shikai to strong warriors such as Kyoraku and Yoruichi; whose collective reiatsu was higher than Tokinada's. Currently, there were quite a few people whose reiatsu were greater than Tokinada's. The place was overflowing with the reiatsu of various people. Ubuginu Hikone. Zaraki Kenpachi. Ginjo Kugo. And finally Michibane Aura.

{t/n: this bit really explains why Kyoka Suigetsu is so lethal when used by someone like Aizen. In Aizen's case; he just needed to show his opponents the Shikai release only once. Once is enough for his opponent to forever be under its spell. It's different in Tokinada's case. If the blade is touched, then the entirety of his hypnosis collapses. But in case of Aizen, he still retained his abilities even after Gin de-activated it. Wielded by Aizen, Kyoka Suigetsu is flawless}

The moment when Tokinada glanced at her, she had already taken action.

Tokinada realized that his body was being restrained. The handle of Enrakyoten clasped in his hand conveyed something else.

The fact that all kinds of blades that were being manifested in this place are now being touched by someone.

"Are they attacking each other by mistake...? But why...?"

Nanao's eyes followed the pattern of tentacles; that had earlier attacked Kyoraku; as it entangled Tokinada's entire body.

"It's better not to let your guard down. This might also be an illusion of Kyoka Suigetsu."

Standing, surrounded by the raging flames, Kyoraku squinted as he saw Tokinada and Aura; as well as Ginjo.

"Perhaps... it is not an illusion... But it's better to not become too optimistic."

From the pages 256-276:

Even before the pain was transmitted to his brain, Kazeshini had wrapped itself around his right arm a moment earlier and had peeled it away from his body in the blink of an eye.

“No...way...”

The pain of losing his right arm shot through his entire body; but the doubt that rose within his mind somewhat pushed aside the pain momentarily.

Standing before him was Hisagi Shuhei, looking straight at him with blazing eyes.

“You.. you were supposed to be under ‘complete hypnosis’...”

Aura had stopped the further initialization of the Shikai, but Kyoraku’s group was still under its influence. Hisagi, who had also seen it before it was sealed, but after Kyoraku’s group saw it, should have been even more strongly hypnotized. The scenery reflected in his eyes, fluctuations in reiatsu, even the sound of the wind, ought to be misidentified.

Hisagi was no longer operating in the dark, he was looking straight at Tokinada. But his visual, auditory and olfactory senses as well as reikaku should not be functioning properly. Therefore it should have been impossible to grasp Tokinada’s exact location from just his conversation with Ginjo and Aura. It was impossible to attack unless one could cancel out the hypnosis by releasing reiatsu of Aizen’s level.

There were other reasons as to why Tokinada had been caught completely off guard by Hisagi.

A piece of cloth fluttered between Tokinada and Hisagi. It was the mantle that completely masks reiatsu; the one which he had worn earlier and then thrown aside.

-Did you wrap Kazeshini in it before throwing?

-So that I wouldn’t feel its reiatsu?

-So you began rotating the blade just before wrapping it up?

-Is that how you cut off my arm?

Tokinada couldn’t understand. He had made sure that the cloak had been misidentified as sand.

Was it possible that Hisagi had not actually seen the Shikai of Kyoka Suigetsu?

But surely I had shown it to him the instant his eyes opened.

I did see Hisagi’s astonished look and subsequent confusion.

-...Wait.

-Confusion?

It took him just one second to understand. Tokinada turned his face towards one Shinigami. Hirako Shinji.

Hirako was exhausted and he could barely hoist himself on one knee. Despite his condition, he was grinning confidently.

“You know.. I was actually saving this for when Aizen showed his Shikai to Ichigo. But I never got a chance to do it since Aizen never used Kyoka Suigetsu on Ichigo.”

“But perhaps Aizen did it deliberately.”

It was Kyoraku who spoke. He and Nanao appeared beside Hirako and picked up the handle of ‘Enrakyoten’ that had fallen to the ground.

“We were saved because you were so prompt, Captain Hirako. And Lieutenant Hisagi himself, who was so quick to respond, even though he did not know about it then.”

“Well... it would have been a lot more difficult to pull off this kind of stunt against someone like Aizen.”

Hirako said so fairly, while swinging Sakanade from his wrist. It was in its Shikai state, but Tokinada did not remember Sakanade being able to reverse the visibility and hearing of illusions.

Then, whom did he use that power on?

As the answer came to Tokinada in a flash, Hirako told him,

“Oh, you poor simpleton!”

Hirako had not used Sakanade on Tokinada; he had used it on Hisagi instead. At the exact moment when Tokinada had shown Hisagi the release of Kyoka Suigetsu.

Since the front and back were reversed, Hisagi had not actually seen the release of the Shikai. His look of astonishment was because he had been shocked and confused that everything before his eyes was inverted; front, back, left, right, above, below. It was all upside down.

When Tokinada finally understood what was going on, he turned his eyes towards Kyoraku to take away the zanpakuto from his hand. But before he knew it, the hilt disappeared from Kyoraku’s hand; and it could not be found anywhere.

“Sorry about that. But Okyo has already hidden your zanpakuto away.”

{t/n: Okyo is Kyokotsu. Term of endearment. Shunsui uses ’Ohana’ for Katen and ‘Okyo’ for Kyokotsu}

Kyoraku informed Tokinada sweetly.

“Hey now... You don’t want to keep me waiting, do you?”

The voice was heard from behind Tokinada. It was already too late by then.

A Getsuga Tensho released by Ginjo struck Tokinada’s body obliquely.

Red blood blossomed like flowers as it danced high up in the sky of the Kyogoku.

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zirconis54

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Now my ultimate answer is that they both tie. I initially was convinced that GER would win quite easily but ultimately it can't trap Yhwach in a death loop so easily.

At the same time, Yhwach would have no way of actually beating GER (or Giorno). I'd say that it's difficult to decide since we don't know the absolute limits of both characters. At the end it may fall into an argument of who's ability can move into the highest dimension since well Yhwach is almighty and stands, especially GER also have effects on time/space and probably quite a bit more.

In a nutshell, they're both stupidly broken characters (though GER is a lot better thought out in almost every way) and they've to a good degree both been intentionally vaguely written so let's just decide on a tie for everyone's good.

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MattyBoi

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GER stomps. Yhwach has no way to kill it, and will get trapped in an infinite death loop.

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JOVIOLMA

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Wanderez

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#157  Edited By Wanderez  Online
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PanzerX

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Paul7889

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Are you all stupid? GER can only revert things back to zero, if it's aware of it's previous state AND if Giorno thinks the action is of evil nature. Even Orihime is superior, because her powers negate reality. Even if GER would be able to revert attacks, it couldn't beat anyone if GER's punches are too weak. It has to kill someone first in order to start a death loop. You people act like GER is allmighty.