Goku VS Vegeta, Who would really win?

Goku

VS

Vegeta

Battle:

• Equal Power Levels.
• End of DBZ for both.
• Both at SSJ Full Power, neither can ascend/descend.
• Morals on, but Goku isn't holding back.
• No Kaioken, or Spirit Bomb.
• No BFR, or Planet Destruction.
• No outside help.
• Infinite Energy for both, just in case one runs out and then the other can easily blast them to pieces.

So who really is the stronger Saiyan? I think Vegeta, but I want to hear everyone's opinion on this....

It could go either way.

Since they are equal in power i go with Vegeta, he is also a better tactician.

@pope052: Personally I always believed Vegeta was more skilled and Goku was more powerful.

@bronze_surfer: As did I, since they're both equal the Prince could finally win under equal conditions...

Vegeta's soul purpose is to lose to goku

Goku.

Honestly though, judging from their fight at equal power in Buu Saga, it could really go either way. I say this is a lot like Captain America vs Batman, flip a coin.

@russellmania77: Only because Goku has always learned better techniques, and advanced to different SSJ levels... Vegeta is a more skilled warrior and experienced more skillful training as he was taking on Saibamen as a kid while Goku was learning how to use the Kamehameha...

Gohan hes gotten the best training from the best trainers. But seriously vegeta wins.

@pope052: Vegeta may have been the more skilled warrior when they had first met but through out the years due to Gokus travels and mentors he surpasses him in that area.

@danm: Goku is very unreliable aswell as he keeps getting injured, dies or has to travel extremely long distances to help his friends. Vegeta may not do as well in battle but that's because he wouldn't go to a trainer such as King Kai that to earn the right to train you must make him "laugh".

Vegeta was more determined when he saw that Goku could become a Super Saiyan. He forced himself to undergo stressful training in order to be stronger than Goku because he deserved to be for once.

The makers of DBZ really didn't like Vegeta, he was never the first to ascend to a higher SSJ transformation, never killed a major villain. Goku met so many mentors because he died, or just went off to train while leaving everyone behind not thinking of the dangers that were likely to come . Vegeta was never trained by anyone after his father and from that point on he self trained.

Goku recieved better training than Vegeta, but if they were ever exactly equal and fought i'd put my money on Vegeta 8/10 times...

50/50 chance either way.

@pope052: and yet goku was more a of natural, becoming twice as strong as vegeta and only using half the time veggie spent in the time chamber. Goku will always win

@pope052:

To be fair, if they where exactly equal, it would be Vegeta vs Vegeta, Goku's personality is ultimately what lead him to become the better warrior, Vegeta even acknowledges this himself.

Why? The only time they fought as equals it was an almost perfect draw. It's like Batman vs Captain america, a coin flip.

Goku in my opinion

Goku's indomitable will is what makes him the better fighter -Vegeta may be more conventionally skilled, but Goku will always keep pushing himself to have that much more power and train that much harder.

Vegeta by far. More ruthless, won't hold back from the get go.

Goku ftw as usual

Vegeta for superior fighting experience, Goku for raw skill. Vegetas experience is so vast and has experienced so many alien arts over his conquests, that it almost matches Gokus pure skill for fighting. Its a 95/100 ratio to me with Goku only just edging out. He will always be a step ahead of Vegeta and always able to put him down quick if he went 100%. The problem with Goku is that he loves Vegeta too much to injure or put Vegeta in his place. It would ruin his pride and might make Vegeta not want to push himself harder and fight more. Its basically a lie that Goku feeds Vegeta. Sure, Vegeta is 2nd best, but there is a noticeable gap between them that makes Vegeta want to strive to be better than what he is.

@djangophile said:

This, I agree with 100%, only don't forget Goku also has great experience. Vegeta is just more intelligent and can utilize it better.

This, I do not. You're forgetting when Vegeta saved Goku's life from the Androids and that Goku would have died to Vegeta easily if not for Gohan, Yajirobe and Krillin.

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Despite what Goku fanboys ordinarily claim, Goku was not holding back against Majin Vegeta, other than not going SSJ3 in their fight for PIS reasons, as he was clearly having great difficulties with him.

"I don't know why I'm surprised... he has been training for the last seven years straight..."

Also, people tend to forget that Goku was dead, giving him a huge advantage over his normal self. I can't remember what Goku stated in Other World exactly, but something like he has greater energy efficiency after he dies, or something. Presumably, him training in Other World over 7 years is what allowed him to unlock the third Super Saiyan transformation, not his fighting genius as had been the case for SSJ1 against Frieza.

Vegeta also had an "amp" due to becoming Majin.The effect this amp had was naturally boosting his ki by "putting him in his right mind" which presumably also helps keep his mind straight during fighting. We don't know how comparable these amps are for these two, but Goku was training under his for seven years whereas Vegeta had just recently become Majin.

So in terms of fighting skill they're roughly equals, but operate very differently. Goku is more like Bruce Lee in that he prepares and trains his mind and body for combat without preoccupying himself with techniques, and has a Taskmaster-like ability to adapt himself to any fighter. Vegeta on the other hand is highly intelligent, and I believe utilizes his vast experience more efficiently than Kakarot, more similar to Batman.

Now training is where they also differ, and the effect of this is evidenced by Goku acquiring SSJ3 and Vegeta not, as well as many other times throughout the series, such as here, which summarizes the difference pretty well:

In terms of ki techniques Goku and Vegeta relate in this regard similarly to their fighting skill. Goku retains his Taskmaster-like ability, however based on feats I believe Vegeta has the clear advantage, however slight, in this regard. His Gallick Gun matched a 4x Kamehameha in their first encounter, his Final Flash blew apart Perfect Cell while far below him in power, and his ki techniques molested Buu, for lack of a better term, despite him being unable to inflict physical damage. Tien is another fighter I count as more skilled with ki techniques than Goku.

TBH Goku acquiring SSJ3 and Vegeta not in DBZ is just an instance of PIS due to Akira Toriyama personally not liking Vegeta. Vegeta should have been the one to kill Buu. If he had, people wouldn't claim "oh Goku was just holding back in his fight with Vegeta" as they so often do, and would see that they were pretty much equals in power, and Goku just had an extremely limited trump card in SSJ3. Would've made for a much better saga, too; after Goku goes SSJ3, the Buu saga goes to shit.

So, it depends on which saga as usual who is more skilled or strong.

For this fight, I'm going with Goku for sure, having trained in Other World for so long, whereas Vegeta was presumably training primarily on Earth after Cell, in his traditional manner.

Fighting skill: Goku slight edge

Ki techniques: Vegeta slight edge

Physical power: Vegeta slight edge

Spiritual (ki) power: Goku slight edge

Akira Toriyama made it clear time and time again that Goku is better, and would beat Vegeta.

I disagree on the Vegeta having more intelligence part. He always screws up by using brute force or rushing in. Every time.

@audiorift: even if he did have more intelligence his arrogance gets in the way anyways.

@ximpossibrux said:

How so?

@thc: As far as I've seen, the Energy efficiency difference is only really notable in SSj3, but I would totally agree on every other point. I would say this is comparable to Batman vs CAptain America. In an even fight, these two are almost perfectly matched. Flip a coin for the winner IMO.

@thc: After Goku got out of ROSAT, he powered up and Vegeta was astonished of how Goku (half power) became so much stronger then he is.

Vegeta when watching Perfect Cell vs Goku, said to himself that these two are in a league of their own.

During the battle of Kid Buu Vegeta even admits Goku is the best.

@audiorift said:

@ximpossibrux: ROSAT?

Yes, Goku is far better than Vegeta at training his mind and spirit. I've considered this already.

Can you find me this line specifically? I don't recall it. Regardless, it's the same time period as when Goku left the time chamber and powered up at Korin's Tower. Clearly they're not in a league of their own since Vegeta would one-shot Cell now.

That's the most famous line, yup. Also a load of crock shit, and you'll see it when Vegeta goes Super Saiyan God in the next movie/saga. (and kicks ass)

@dratini1331 said:

Acronym for Room of Space and Time. What the Japanese call the hyperbolic time chamber.

Ah, Ty Ty ^.^

I also disagree about Vegeta's Intelligence factor for combat being better than Goku. Vegeta's overall intelligence is certainly more, pretty much everyone is smarter than Goku. But, not with combat. The link implies that Piccolo only thinks Vegeta is a genius, but nobody else? Certainly not, Goku is MORE of a genius than Vegeta when it comes to combat. Vegeta rushes in and always loses every battle and lets angry win. Piccolo was talking about his skill as a figher, they are all fighting genius level combatants. But, Vegeta is pretty dumb and dimwitted when it comes to battle strategy. That is not a fair argument for Vegetas intelligence. Also, DBZ doesn't even follow itself most of the time, it should be called Inconsistent Ball Z.

@djangophile said:

When people call Goku a genius they are referring to his Taskmaster-esque fighting ability, not his intelligence.

Goku can't comprehend logically why he defeats people; he just does it. He doesn't have a factual, textual understanding of martial arts like, say, Batman.

Vegeta, on the other hand, presumably does, given his apparent intelligence and his position in an advanced society. That's just speculation though.

The link doesn't imply anything of the sort. It simply refutes his (and apparently yours) opinion of Vegeta "always rushing in and always losing." That instance also had nothing to do with his skill as a fighter.

I think you're getting honour and intelligence mixed up here. Vegeta wants to defeat his opponents at their strongest, not simply defeat them. That may be why you think his battle strategies are flawed.

Now here's one I always have fun with. Care to elaborate?

At the end of the DBZ saga, Goku has far surpassed Vegeta in just about every possible aspect. His travels and mentors have given him such techniques as instant transmission, the spirit bomb, kaioken, knowledge on how to perform fusion etc..not to mention he can go SS3, I like Vegeta as much as the next guy but give credit to where credit is due, Goku is the superior warrior and by quite a margin.

both in same power level vegeta won. goku was balancing his power to match his, ssj2 v ssj2. Vegeta out fought him, slapped him around. not to mention vegeta won in their first encounter too, surviving oozaru gohan, distructo disc, spirit bomb, and kaio ken kamehaha X whateve, goku has not once beat vegeta. in dbz cannon. However being main char goku supersedes him in power eventually. it was inevitable

Goku and Vegeta were never equal at the end of Z nor were they equal in the Buu saga. Vegeta had to allow himself to fall under Babidi's spell to gain the power boost because he realized that after all his training, Goku still had a massive gap over him and an extra transformation.

Vegeta even goes to admit as much when he views Goku fighting against Kid Buu.

That's common knowledge.

@drazah: If it were, then there would be no point for this thread. Evidently, that isn't the case here ;)

OP says equal power levels. hence my breakdown before your redundant post about goku being more powerful. ;)

@drazah: Well then that's my mistake.

In that case, it could go either way as shown when they were both fighting at the second super saiyan state.

@drazah: Given equal power levels Goku still wins,

It comes down to Goku having more to train for, that being his family, friends and the planet where Vegeta only trains for himself which he eventually comes to realize why it is Goku has always been his better, in addition to that Goku's extensive travels, training with King Kai, spending a lot of time training in other world, landing on planet yardrat, to train after namek blows up etc. Given that and his superior techniques, instant transmission most notably, it makes him a better warrior, not just in strength but in all aspects.

@danm: both have trained to better themselves. both have trained to save the world. so training is moot anyway since they're same power level. it's not like they're improving their martial arts from yellow to brown belt. And gokus travels are null also, vegeta has been to countless worlds, jus because a kai trained them doesn't give one an edge. piccolo, tien, chao zu, yam have all been trained by king kai, but vegeta can still beat them. Ditto if you want to mention pikon or after life training. As far as I.T. goes, Goku doesn't usually use I.T. in battle, and these other superior techniques consist of ??? there's no spirit bomb or kaoken in OP. Vegeta invented more SS ki attacks then SS goku, and more efficient. Not to mention as stated above, both equal strength has actually been done, and goku got out classed H2H. if it's a fight random encounter vegeta is more cunning, ruthless, skilled, aggressive and willing to take risks, if the well being of people were in the balance goku would push himself beyond his limit (his trademark) to win. other wise he's knocked unconscious or body broke up, as morals are on.

Goku unequivocally. If anything it was Vegeta who always used only raw power to win battles where Goku haas used skill (more so in Dragonball). Take King Piccolo for example- it was skill and not power that won him that fight, whereas Vegeta has always just incinerated people with lower powerlevels whenever he's won a fight.

@drazah: There isn't a single valid argument you can make for Vegeta defeating Goku, Vegeta being overly ruthless and aggressive is the one of the primary reasons why he had fallen so far behind Goku in the first place, you can go ahead and disregard Goku's superior travels, superior mentoring and even claim that he wouldn't use his superior technique, one that could and would give him a major advantage in battle, that being instant transmission, even though the OP states he isn't hold back, even a blood lusted Majin Vegeta couldn't finish a morals on Goku, one who didn't even want to fight in the first place, without resorting to a cheap shot when his back was turned. It's in Vegeta's nature to be second to Goku, not only in power but in general, he realizes this and acknowledges it as should you.

even though he bested him both times. 2 scenarios when they actually fought.

Before the cheap shot goku was already out matched, i'm not saying an opinion, it literally went down like that, but okay. Your theory though of vegeta being gokus second by nature or falling behind because of aggressiveness only applys to power or PIS. which is of no consequence in this battle thread with OP specs. of same level. I do admit though I.T. is not normally used for combat, but it is a legitimate advantage.

In base form, Vegeta is stronger than Goku.

But in SSJ transformations Goku wins, he has a more powerful SSJ , SSj 2 and SSj 4. Also, Vegeta cant reach level 3 and needs artificial blutz rays for phase 4

In fact the same Vegeta admitted that at the end Goku was the number one.

How would planetary destruction help the fight for either side? They both have survived planetary beams easily in the past lol.

As for the case, I'd say Goku wins, even with equal power. Goku is a better H2H fighter, better strategist (In Battle), has instant transmission (and can use it in battle pretty handily) Can go up to SSJ4, and plenty of other techniques that Vegeta can't defend against. Not only that, but in battle, Goku doesn't rush into the battle arrogantly. He plans his moves, and unlike Vegeta, he doesn't tank attacks, he prefers to dodge.

I wanna lean the scale to Vegeta to a 60/40 he is quicker without using instant transmission, smarter, and can dish out more attacks quicker from what I've seen.

@danm said:

What, you mean other than these?

Also,

That may be relevant if they are equal power and Vegeta is trying to destroy the planet, but that's an unrealistic scenario involving SSJ2 Vegeta. In fact, Vegeta died for his family not himself despite his claims, and it was only Buu's seemingly infinite source of ki that saved himself from Vegeta's suicide attack.

This point is moot and isn't even relevant to the fight, but I'll refute it further with feats. For example, Goku overpowers Vegeta's Gallick Gun by pushing himself further in his Kaioken despite King Kai's cries. That's a feat of him doing as such for the Earth, as per usual:

However in his fight with Majin Vegeta, Goku knows Vegeta won't destroy the Earth if he loses the fight (nor at that moment), and even though it's a completely serious fight, he isn't putting all his power into it because 1/3 of ki is courage, which as it happens at that moment Vegeta is visibly superior as Goku had been with Goku's Kamehameha in their first fight (in addition to boosting his Kaioken), though Vegeta's is more powerful by a smaller margin in this instance:

And what about Vegeta's extensive travels?

After which, Vegeta dominates him H2H effortlessly, and Goku admits his speed and technique are superior to his own. Thus Goku requires the Kaioken in order to keep up the fight:

Training with King Kai is a highly relevant feat though as Goku had to "become more powerful than King Kai himself," and the sole purpose of becoming more powerful than King Kai was because he claimed Vegeta and Nappa were more powerful than himself.

In terms of martial arts, at this stage Vegeta was one of the most high ranking fighters in a galactic military. Do I need to describe what this would entail? He's been training his entire life, with access to many times more planets' worth of knowledge, experience, and skilled fighters, etc. than Earth has had for Goku up until this point. And it was evident in both Vegeta's power and fighting skill, both of which surpassed Goku's.

The training Goku did between his battle with Vegeta on Earth and his battle with Frieza on Namek was mainly strength training. Primarily he was training under intense gravity, which improved his body's durability and most importantly its survivability under stress, therefore allowing him to reach unheard of levels of Kaioken on Namek, and he was insanely quick. The enemies on Namek were not much more skilled than Vegeta himself - presumably less skilled in fact - however, Frieza may have been of varying levels of skill and had a tail which complicated things in close combat.

Namek was mostly about gaining new levels of power, and yes, Goku spent a very long time perfecting the usage of these powers after Namek. It was evident upon his arrival on Earth, sparring with Super Saiyan Trunks and outclassing him. However, the only real gain Goku got that is relevant to this fight from these travels was the Instant Transmission which is his prime advantage over most opponents.

Everything else is equalized by Vegeta upon Android 19 and 20's arrival:

After which he and Vegeta were clearly equals in skill.

As an angelic (dead) Super Saiyan 2, meaning he had higher levels of energy, Goku was slightly outclassed in power by Majin Vegeta.

Which techniques exactly? Except IT, which Goku has only used a few times in combat, except for Battle of Gods which isn't in English yet. Also, Goku lost track of Vegeta many times during their fight, indicating he was too fast and/or can mask his ki during fights, which Bills might not know how to do actively during battle as it's a technique apparently known only to Earthlings throughout the saga. In other words, Goku can't use IT against Vegeta in the same way he used it against Bills.

Also, frankly you're wrong. Vegeta has the superior ki techniques. His Gallick Gun was an equal to Goku's x4 Super Kamehameha. His Final Flash destroyed Perfect Cell. His Final Impact tore through Majin Buu effortlessly.

Vegeta's Energy Rings, a shackle-type ki technique, restrained even Goku, a Super Saiyan 2 himself. Presumably he called upon a bit of his hidden power to break out of them, which surprised Vegeta:

Again, frankly, he's not the superior warrior in strength. SSJ2 Vegeta is clearly slightly superior to SSJ2 Goku, as he focused his training primarily on gravity training after Namek and even after the Cell Games for the next seven years. That, and ki techniques are the two slight advantages he has over Goku by the end of DBZ.

Goku on the other hand is unmatched in spiritual power (ki) which is driven by courage, strength of mind, and health, meaning he has the perfect balance of all of these. Comparing SSJ3 Goku to SSJ2 Vegeta for anything else is moot since it is a Super Saiyan transformation which requires spiritual strength, and in effect boosts all his other stats. Goku also has a taskmaster-like fighting ability that allows him to hang with literally any fighter he's ever encountered, at least in terms of skill.