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#1 Posted by GetOut (511 posts) - - Show Bio
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R1: Goku Black vs 1st Form Janemba

R2: Goku Black vs Final form Janemba

Stipulations:

  • In character.
  • No previous knowledge.
  • Win by any means, except BFR.
  • Fight takes place where Gogeta fought Janemba.
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#2 Posted by Darkbiscuit (2201 posts) - - Show Bio

Black both rounds. He is ~ DBS SSJ3 Goku with a seemingly hax ability.

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#3 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8270 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba both rounds.1st round high diff second no diff

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#4 Posted by Tiramisu (333 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba both rounds for now.

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#5 Posted by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba both rounds.

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#6 Edited by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

Black stomps. He fought against SSJ2 Goku, who's >SSG level:

SSJ Post God Goku was still SSG level:

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Goten and the others could sense him, meaning he wasn't using God Ki:

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Zamasu and SSJ2 Goku (while still inferior) were even compared to Beerus:

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#7 Edited by Batuxx28 (275 posts) - - Show Bio

Black goku both rounds.

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#8 Posted by qdavis44 (168 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba second round,I know DBS powEr levels are higher but he stonped SSJ3 Goku and Goku was holding back easily.

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#9 Posted by Jexsu (1296 posts) - - Show Bio
@qdavis44 said:

Janemba second round,I know DBS powEr levels are higher but he stonped SSJ3 Goku and Goku was holding back easily.

No. Goku Black is much more powerful. Janemba is to Goku Black what Fat Buu was to Beerus.

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#10 Posted by qdavis44 (168 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu: The power difference is diff not that big. The creator said that Whis was a 15, Beerus was 10,and Goku was 6 in base ssg so ssgssb was like a 7.5.So base Goku is like a 4,but base Vegeta stomped ssj3 Gotenks.And Goku stomped black at only ssj2 .If anything they are tied but he is diff not stronger

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#11 Posted by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by drew6670 (894 posts) - - Show Bio

Currently Black does not look anymore powerful than a ss2+, so ill back Janemba till then. Though I am certain that he should be much more powerful in the next few episodes.

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#13 Posted by Jexsu (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

@qdavis44 said:

@jexsu: The power difference is diff not that big. The creator said that Whis was a 15, Beerus was 10,and Goku was 6 in base ssg so ssgssb was like a 7.5.So base Goku is like a 4,but base Vegeta stomped ssj3 Gotenks.And Goku stomped black at only ssj2 .If anything they are tied but he is diff not stronger

What do you mean? Are we watching the same Anime series? The power difference is huge. Janemba was damaged by SSJ3 Goku, and then easily beaten by SSJ Gogeta. Fat Buu was turned to paste by Beerus casually spinning him. Those power statistics and who stomped who are moot points. Goku has already surpassed SSJ God and SSJ God Blue, so his power level has risen dramatically. This means, that despite using SSJ and SSJ2, the boost he received from the God transformations has increased his base form physicals and energy output much higher than anything Janemba and Fat Buu can do. Goku wrecked Goku Black post-God transformations and power increase. They are nowhere near tied, and Black is definitely stronger; the only reasoning you can use Black is "weaker" or "tied," is because the longer he was away from his own Universe, the more power was taken from him.

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#14 Posted by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba, dude has reality and matter warping abilities, it stomped SSJ3, Black hasn´t shown to be above SSJ2 and don´t start with SSJ2 godly ki shit, Goku went SSJ2 to train with Trunks so unless Trunks can suddenly rival Beerus now Goku doesn´t always access to the godly ki.

And well, Gogeta casually happened to have an evil purification attack to defeat Janemba so....

I´m saying Black first round due to the the weaknesses of Fat Janemba but second round Janemba.

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#15 Posted by Lejon (2946 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba

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#16 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

1. The 6, 10, 15 numbers were for the movie. Super retconed them. If not then KKx10 would make Goku massively above Whis.

2. Goku wasn't using God Ki when his SSJ=SSG against Beerus. Goten and the others (who can't sense God Ki) could sense him:

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And he equal to SSG as just a SSJ:

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Even if Goku hasn't got any stronger at all since then, it's still (again, with no God Ki) SSJ2>SSJ=SSG. Meaning Black>SSG.

Zamasu and SSJ2 Goku were even compared to Beerus in episode 53:

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Goku was holding back against Trunks, we still don't know how strong he is or isn't (although Beerus did say he was impressed).

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#17 Posted by xlab3000 (3947 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku Black both rounds lol.

Black stomps. He fought against SSJ2 Goku, who's >SSG level:

SSJ Post God Goku was still SSG level:

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Goten and the others could sense him, meaning he wasn't using God Ki:

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Zamasu and SSJ2 Goku (while still inferior) were even compared to Beerus:

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Also Black gets stronger from the damage he takes in battle.

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#18 Posted by TheKinfing (11793 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Goku without much problems.

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#19 Posted by mrx1122 (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

janemba 2nd round

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#20 Edited by GetOut (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@jexsu: @anime2114: Do you guys really think Black would get an immense boost of power that he would go from Trunks' tier to SSG tier out of a sudden? I am more inclined towards what EdBeatle said, basically that Goku has the choice of accessing his god powers. Also remember that Goku likes to see his enemies at 100% power, so it wouldn't make sense for him to instantly access his god powers with the possibility of stomping Black from the very beginning if there's the doubt of how strong Black actually is at full power.

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#21 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@getout said:

@jexsu: @anime2114: Do you guys really think Black would get an immense boost of power that he would go from Trunks' tier to SSG tier out of a sudden? I am more inclined towards what EdBeatle said, basically that Goku has the choice of accessing his god powers. Also remember that Goku likes to see his enemies at 100% power, so it wouldn't make sense for him to instantly access his god powers with the possibility of stomping Black from the very beginning if there's the doubt of how strong Black actually is at full power.

Goku having the choice to access his God Ki or not is irrelevant. He was already BOG SSG level as a SSJ without it:

SSJ=SSG:

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The others could sense him meaning he wasn't using God Ki:

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SSJ2 Goku and Zamasu were even compared to Beerus:

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Also, why would Goku transform unless he needed to if he could just make his Base mode stronger?

Its probably a combination of Black messing with Trunks, Trunks being stronger than we think, and simple PIS. But that doesn't change Black's feats.

Black~SSJ2>SSJ>=BOG SSG

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#22 Posted by GetOut (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@anime2114: Sorry what do you mean with "Black messing with Trunks"? I didn't understand that part.

You also said that Goku could have been holding back against Trunks, so why not hold back against Black until he demonstrates his full power? And Trunks is just a strong SSJ2, there's nothing to suggest he's a SSG tier, it was stated that he was barely able to beat Dabura.

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#23 Posted by Nefarious (35649 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku Black stomps in both rounds.

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#24 Edited by Sodeadly123 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@anime2114: ssj does not equal ssg. If that was true why would he be using regular ssj2 in his recent fights? Heck why would Ssb be a thing if Goku only needed ssj? Goku didn't drop power after he lost god form because while he still had god ki, he hadn't infused it with ssj yet to make ssb. Anyways janemba takes round 1 after a good fight and takes round 2 with ease.

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#25 Edited by FreshFlintstone (1227 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku black stomps

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#26 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sodeadly123: ...What? He's using SSJ2 because Black/Zamasu are >SSJ.

SSB>SSJ3>SSJ2>SSJ>=BOG arc SSG.

We know for a fact SSJ Goku wasn't using God Ki against Beerus since he could be sensed (I've posted it more than once).

There's no evidence he got weaker after his fight with Beerus (opposite, in fact, considering Gohan and Krillin's reaction to Goku vs Frieza, Goku fighting Beerus in Base, and Base Copy Vegeta stomping SSJ3 Gotenks).

And why would SSJ2 Goku and Zamasu be compared to Beerus if they weren't God level?

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#27 Edited by Sodeadly123 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@anime2114: Obviously he didn't get weaker but the power up he got from ssg doesn't power up his ssj forms anymore. He infused god ki with super Saiyan and that made Ssb. If ssg=ssj then why ever have Ssb? Gowasu didn't compare zamasu to beerus. he was shocked that goku had fought beerus and lived, then thinking that goku must have been almost equal to beerus which we know isn't true.

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#28 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sodeadly123: SSB is SSJ with God Ki, not just SSG. They're two different forms. SSB>SSG.

It's a fact that BOG SSJ GOKU=BOG SSG Goku power wise:

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Both Beerus and Goku said so. It's also a fact that Goku wasn't using God Ki at that point:

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SSJ without God Ki=BOG SSG.

SSB>SSJ3>SSJ2>SSJ, which power wise is equal to the power of BOG SSG Goku.

And Goku (the guy that's actually fought Beerus) is the one that compared Zamasu to the Beerus he fought, not Gowasu:

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Not to mention the other evidence I mentioned all implies he kept the power from his fight with Beerus too. Gohan and Krillin's reaction to Base Goku vs Frieza, Goku fighting a battle hungry Beerus in Base, and Base Copy Vegeta stomping SSJ3 Gotenks.

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#29 Posted by Sodeadly123 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@anime2114: sure bog ssj= bog ssg but ssj now does not equal bog ssg. If goku ssj2 and zamasu were around beerus level then explain how ssj2 trunks fought ssj2 goku. Or how trunks was able to fight black without being one shot since goku fought black as a ssj2. The point is that gokus ssj forms are not anymore powerful then before goku got god ki. Zamasu got beat by regular ssj2. Goku only felt like that because it's supposed to show that zamasu has massive potential which goku says when they are traveling back to their universe.

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#30 Posted by GetOut (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@anime2114: No offense dude (I mean it, no offense), but drangon ball is pretty well known for its big statements and inconsistencies/being hard to gauge (with DBS being even worse), and what you're doing is basing all this on statements, and like I asked you before, what's there to say that Goku wasn't holding back against Black like he did so against Trunks? Honestly, in my opinion we should wait and see before calling this a stomp in Black's favor. If Black fights someone in SSG tier then he stomps easily, but if not, I don't think we can call it a stomp based solely on statements and his fight with SSJ2 Goku.

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#31 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@sodeadly123: There's no evidence that Goku's SSJ form got weaker after BOG. That's fan speculation. The opposite is actually implied by, again:

-Krillin and Gohan comparing Goku's power against Frieza to his fight with Beerus and calling it frighteningly high:

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Beerus telling Goku that he'd gotten stronger since their fight:

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Base Goku fight a battle hungry Beerus:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L-kr9dpWPdM

Base Copy Vegeta stomping SSJ3 Gotenks:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlxeIcvrKc

None of which makes sense if Goku got weaker.

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#32 Posted by Sodeadly123 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@anime2114: If gokus ssj form from big didn't revert back to normal then explain how ssj2 trunks was able to fight with a ssj2 goku. Shouldn't goku have won in an instant if that were true? Same for fighting black. If black is so powerful how come he hasn't been able to finish off trunks in the future? It's because after his fight with beerus goku merged his godly ki with ssj and made ssb. The only reason goku still was that strong as a ssj was because he hadn't merged his god ki with ssj yet. So he still had the strength but not the godly ki. Thus we have goku and vegetas Saiyan beyond god base form where they use godly ki without going ssj. Which is why ssj3 gotenks got stomped by base Vegeta. It just wouldn't make sense that black is anywhere above ssj3 if he still hadn't beat trunks in the future since he was stated to be stronger then him but not by that large of a margin. So goku fought black as a regular ssj2 just like trunks had in the future.

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#33 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

@getout said:

@anime2114: No offense dude (I mean it, no offense), but drangon ball is pretty well known for its big statements and inconsistencies/being hard to gauge (with DBS being even worse), and what you're doing is basing all this on statements, and like I asked you before, what's there to say that Goku wasn't holding back against Black like he did so against Trunks? Honestly, in my opinion we should wait and see before calling this a stomp in Black's favor. If Black fights someone in SSG tier then he stomps easily, but if not, I don't think we can call it a stomp based solely on statements and his fight with SSJ2 Goku.

I'd agree about waiting, but he already fought a SSG tier opponent (SSJ2 Goku). And it's not just based a few statements and one fight, it's based on facts from the series:

Goku, Beerus, The Narrator, and Vegeta all confirming SSJ>=SSG:

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Goku stating that Whis trained Vegeta was at a completely different level than before:

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Beerus stating Goku was stronger than before:

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Gohan and Krillin comparing Goku (vs Frieza) to Goku (vs Beerus):

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Base Goku fighting Beerus:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L-kr9dpWPdM

Base Copy Vegeta stomping SSJ3 Gotenks:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7zlxeIcvrKc

Goku comparing Zamasu to the Beerus he fought:

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Goku only went SSJ2/3 against Trunks so Trunks could compare him to Black. It was obvious he was holding back against him. But against Black himself, there's nothing implying he was holding back. Assuming he was is just that, an assumption. Not to mention we already had Trunks compare Black to SSJ3 Goku:

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That's multiple clear statements and fights from throughout the series. There's seriously no reason at this point to deny all of this based on assumptions.

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#34 Posted by Anime2114 (989 posts) - - Show Bio

As for Goku vs Trunks, Goku was holding back, they were just fighting so Trunks could compare Goku to Black.

And for Black vs Trunks, in their first fight Black casually knocked him out of SSJ2 with one hit:

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In their other fights, either Trunks got stronger, Black wasn't serious, or it's just simple PIS.

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#35 Posted by Jkp1964 (33 posts) - - Show Bio

I love janemba more, but he gets stomped Here.

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#36 Posted by ilovenatasha9 (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Two things:

1)the movie universe scales drastically different than the main timeline, SSJ3 Goku is shown shaking Hell (which is confirmed as the size of a universe) just by powering up.

2)With that said, Black after his first fight with Goku was superior to DBS SSJ2 Goku.

For some perspective, Goku during his clash with Beerus nearly annihilated the DB macrocosm while suppressed, the DB macrocosm is 3x the size of a normal universe.

Goku then imprints the power had at SSG and massively amps his base, he says when he’s in SSJ he doesn’t feel any weaker, then he destroys an attack he couldn’t handle as a SSJ while in Base.

Add around 4 years of intense training with Whis and Vegeta and base Goku is a monster, add a 100x multiplier and Black even surpasses that.

During Vegetas first fight with Black he suppressed himself in SSB to probably above what he saw Blacks power during his fight with SSJ2 Goku, Black took no damage showing he became much stronger than SSJ2 Goku, potentially around SSJ3 Goku.

Janemba stands no chance, he has no showings to put him anywhere near Black, other than being slightly above SSJ3 fusion reborn Goku which only shook Hell, BOG Goku nearly annihilated the macrocosm and Black is well above that.

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#37 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18481 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure Janemba has no chance.

Online
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#38 Posted by hizack123 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

If janamba is actually not playing around he should win due to haxx. High diff.

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5aad0467ddfcf (965 posts) - - Show Bio

black obliterates

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#40 Posted by GentlemanTopHat (1056 posts) - - Show Bio

Janemba might win people forget or don't know that the characters in the movies are way more powerful than the tv show characters Janemba was warping the very fabric of the other world which is supposed to be equal in size to the mortal part of the universe and he had way better regeneration than majin buu and it took a hax to beat him by erasing him from existence.

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#41 Posted by Super_Saiyan_Devil (1599 posts) - - Show Bio

Why bump this when Janemba stands no chance?

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#42 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18102 posts) - - Show Bio

The only version of Black that Janemba has a chance against is initial base Black, and even then I think I would still give the majority to Black.

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#43 Posted by noobsnowman (3635 posts) - - Show Bio

Make it base Black and I'd still give Black the easy victory.

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#44 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

Black easily

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#45 Posted by TheSaiyanMan (1745 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by Cooldes (4908 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by SuperKirby765 (34 posts) - - Show Bio

Black first Round.

Janemba second round.

Janemba wins the second round because he is able to warp reality to a Multi-Universal scale and is able to create perfect copies of someone like when he created a clone of Goku to deflect his beam clash. Janemba creates millions of clones of Goku Black Warp Reality to kill him or steals or limits Blacks power with his Reality Warping. He can also just use portal's and make Goku Black take his own attack's.

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#49 Edited by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku Black wins.

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#50 Posted by Lord_Doom159 (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@jkp1964 said:

I love janemba more, but he gets stomped Here.