Goku Black and Zamasu vs Golden Experience Reqiuem

Round 1: Base Black and Zamasu without immortality

Round 2: Base Black and Zamasu with immortality

Round 3: Rosé Black and Immortal Zamasu

Round 4: Merged Zamasu Halo

Round 5: The amount of Merged Zamasu's as was in manga

Round 6: Cloud/Infinite Zamasu

Both bloodlusted

No BFR

Location RoSaT

stops at 6.

Heavenly Bump

what can gold do at his best ?

@u_wot_m8: Only has one feat. It punched a guy so hard he died infinite times, and is still dying to this day, and will keep dying forever more. He reduces the opponents attack to 0 and his attacks sorta reset time, so the target keeps reliving alternate situations that always end up in his defeat at the moment he was punched.

Pretty sure the guy he punched was using timeskip, too. A version that is only perceivable by the user iirc. For everyone else, things just suddenly change in relation to whatever CK did.

Noone here should be able to stop GER

He gets one shotted. Doesn’t even make it past round 1.

So hax (the usual)

Nerfing guys won't work, DBZ will just resist that, otherwise Chaotziu TK would hold Nappa down, or Vegito would still be a candy rather then having his power and still beating up Gohan-Buu.

So since he is unable to nerf anyone, what is his power ?

@u_wot_m8: Yes, a particularly broken one. Makes alot of people's top 5 at least.

Being physically stronger than a weakling's tk and moderately resisting matter manipulation have nothing at all to do with GER's power. Hax resistance isn't a thing in any series, ever, because "hax" is an arbitrary fan made term stemming from cheap video game tactics and poor balancing...it can mean whatever u want it to mean relative to your situation and isn't a set "type" of power. To resist GER, you need feats resisting the type of power GER is, not a completely different, irrelevant power like those u listed.

And it's not a nerf, he's not making them weaker. He's altering what they do, their actual action is what is reduced to zero. It's attack negation via reality warping, while applying a time loop. And the guy he used it on could literally erase time, AND see the future and confirmed he was about to rip GER to pieces in the next instant (he wasnt wrong, either) yet was powerless against it because that future was ureachable, reality literally reset.

Ex: target decides to throw a punch, instantly goes back to before they even thought to throw a punch. Time literally reverses, even if it was erased.

http://manganelo.com/chapter/vento_aureo/chapter_587

And that's just from being activated. It hasn't even attacked yet and already this gauntlet has no way to win.

Little confused, so he stops there attacks by erasing the timepoint ahead where the attack would hit thus making the attack useless ? if that's the case, then Black can just use that scythe to cut in time/space

@u_wot_m8: Sorta, but a bit more complex than that. His power is to reduce things to zero...actions taken, events, even an opponent's willpower. In this case, zero is just a set point relative to the action. It looks like time manip but it's not...everything that happens during that chapter I posted is technically happening in erased time due to the redhead dude's power, but GER is even undoing that. It's reality warping, returning things to the state they were upon activation.

What it amounts to is an undo button, except he doesn't have to press it. It's automatic and effects any action, not just attacks. When he actually attacks, it sets the moment of attack as that reset point and kinda reverses how it works, locking the opponent in a time loop of altermate realities leading up to the moment they were attacked, and those endless loops always arrive at that moment they were attacked before resetting, so essentially no matter what they do they always end up at that moment and relive repeated failures for eternity.

Still confused, but what about attacks like Black cutting through space/time itself, that goes beyond the reality he is in which where he controls the ability to stop others ?

@u_wot_m8: The action of cutting space would be reduced to zero...in essence, he'd never get to use it. The action itself is undone.

Wouldn't it be the same as still having powers as a candy ? no organs or anything with candy but still has Ki and such ? Wouldn't that be similar to try to negate the power to zero yet still having access to power from being strong enough ?

@u_wot_m8: Not...even close. That's matter manipulation, and retaining physical traits just means they have moderate but not complete resistance to matter manipulation. This is not matter manipulation at all, this is literally resetting reality. You can kill Giorno and it'd just reset...CK tried already as soon as GER activated. He obliterated GE's skull as it was being reborn as GER and in the next instant it basically never happened.

Infinite Zamasu required the erasing of an entire timeline to kill.

GER (canon version) has been known to cap at universal (if we wank King Crimson’s time hax as universal even if there’s no proof it is). He was affected and killed by a universal time hax.

GER’s hax should not work against Infinite Zamasu, so he stops at six.

Also; Zamasu is immune to time shennanigans due to his ring, so it’s debatable if GER’s reset to zero would even work against Zamasu.

Nevertheless, it’s safe to say he definitely loses at 6

What about if the universe isn't their, or he was transported to another timeline or another dimension itself and fought over their ?

@u_wot_m8: It even activated during erased time, which literally doesn't exist, so...yea, take what u will from that.

It appears ur trying to get at a "his powers don't work here" arguement...but that's also disingenuine. Battles take place in neutral arenas assuming both characters function normally, if u just try to argue a dbz character vs a normal human with no powers it's not really DBZ vs GER, now is it? To take that stance is really saying...they have no counter, but hey they got lucky this time by being somewhere his powers don't work at all. In that, it's not GER vs DBZ but GER vs the arena lol.

The loophole is high tier reality warping. That's the obvious counter, but flying bricks like this aren't suited for these kinds of matches. This isn't a problem you can punch away, it's a problem that changes what is real from the moment GER activates.

Btw if u think this power is confusing, u should see the redhead dude he was fighting (Crimson King). I still don't know how the **** his power works...in real life, he is the basis for the meme "it just works" cuz noone really gets it lol

How does it work?

It just does.

What did he just do?

Idk but he did it.

GER did not reset his own death, because GER never died. That wad Gold Experience that died/almost died.

Gold Experience Requiem is not Gold Experience. They are two different beings.

He stops at six.

@heretictroop: GE can't reset it's own death, it is GER's power that did that. As I said, GE (and by default, Giorno) died (splattered skull=death) as it was being reborn as GER, and GER undid that. Ergo, you can kill Giorno and GER can reset it...because it happened right on panel. There's no debate.

@thelocust619: it’s highly questionable whether GER can reset his own death particularly due to many reasons;

1.) it seemed like a molting process, similar to how Echoes evolves

2.) it was never really stated that GOld experience died,

3.) the nature of GER’s reset would have involved King crimson being rewinded as well, but it didn’t show that

4.) the nature of GER’s reset was confusing to it’s opponents. But everybody clearly saw what happened. We even see Requiem peeking inside of Gold Experience’s body.

5.) logically if GER could reset any death, he would have done so twards his (Giorno’s) dead friends

6.) if GER resetted GE’s death. Then it should be GE we should be seeing, not GER

7.) and prolly the most inportant evidence of all; we never really see any reset occur: nor do we see any statements or implications in the manga that a reset occurs; everything from the manga forwarded smoothly with GER coming out of Gold Experience’s skin/shell.

@joviolma: Well, his actual body is dead (I think, or in a coma) but his soul is getting infinitely revived and infinitely dying with every possible way because his death is getting reset to 0

Either recalled that correctly or I forgot horribly.

So it's a bigger 'holy shit'

@heretictroop:

1) Correct, there was indeed molting going on.

2) It was shown, we don't need a statement. Damage to stands is transferred directly to the user (of that we have statements AND showings), and we both know Giorno can't survive those wounds.

3) Valid point, there was no rewinding. And yet Giorno didn't die, and GE alone doesn't have the power to make that be the case

4) This reenforces the molting, but not the reason Giorno didn't die from a clearly lethal blow

5) Never said he could reset any death, it's influence on reality never goes beyond the point of activation (can't reset things that happened before that, only during and after).

6) This one's nonsense. GER is the one doing the resetting, not GE. GE and GER are different forms of the same being.

7) This is basically repeating that things didn't move backwards, which I acknowledge. However, Giorno did not recieve damage he should have recieved, and it's clear that GER's activation is responsible for that. It's literally the only thing that could be responsible for it.

OT: The best R6 can be is a stalemate. Zamasu can't take any meaningful actions, while there isnt anything for GER to reality punch.

@thelocust619: Infinite Zamasu encompassed an entire timeline composing of more than one universe.

GER’s best reset feat was only against one universal level ability. So he needs better hax feats to be able to reset infinite Zamasu’s hax, which is way above his paygrade.

@heretictroop: IZ occupied a timeline and simply started to effect another, it only "encompassed" the time line that was destroyed...and that's highballing. It was actually just a space cloud (not a cloud in space, but a cloud made of space) that occupied an area smaller than the solar system iirc, and had some interdimensional traits that allowed it to...laugh at people across dimensions.

And none of that helps it deal with resetting reality. It has literally no ability that can manage that. It has no feats resisting the reset of anything, so it's actually IZ that lacks the feats to resist GER...GER doesn't need feats to overcome a resistance that isn't there...not that creating alternate realities by punching someone isn't a good enough feat. On the flipside, GER has nothing to punch.

Were this DBZ v Giorno, anyone could blitz before GER even manifested, but this is GER...it's already active. Its ability is already in effect from the start of the match...so basically noone moves from the start of the match. I mean they do, many times...but they dont.

@thelocust619: infinite zamasu was big enough to spread toother timelines. In the manga, it required the destruxtion of all universes in super to kill him. GER’s reset has not shown any potency as big as 12 universes.

Infinite Zamasu also was not a cloud. That’s lowballing him to something as physical as a cloud. And he was not solar system in size, it’s pretty clear his size spread to other timelines as well.

Let’s not even forget about Zamasu’s time-ring, which gives him immunity to time shennanigans

@heretictroop: "infinite zamasu was *big* enough to spread togther timelines."

-This has nothing to do with size. Like...at all. He just had interdimensional powers. Very mild ones that didn't even allow him to escape the one he was in before it was destroyed.

"In the manga, it required the destruxtion of all universes in super to kill him."

-...huh? Idr this... But while we're on it, Goku needing Zeno doesn't put Zamasu on Zeno's level lol. It just means he's above Goku. You can shoot me with a rocket launcher, it doesn't mean u need nothing short a rocket launcher to kill me. Not that durability matters here in any way...remove the hax and skinny Roshi can solo.

"GER’s reset has not shown any potency as big as 12 universes.

-Niether has IZ, soo...?? Also I think you're confused...the reset has no attack potency at all, it does no damage at all. It's range is plenty...assuming it's similar to any other Jojo hax that effects fundemental universal forces, like Za Warudo, it goes "all the way into space" according to Araki. GER doesn't need to worry about the bits that seep into other universes because they do nothing of value and Zeno didn't bother with them either and he did just fine. GER's passive ability (reset) will reach him just fine, his active ability (reality punches) will not.

"Infinite Zamasu also was not a cloud. That’s lowballing him to something as physical as a cloud."

-*Space cloud*. Because he was made of space and looked like a cloud. That's not physical at all, and there's no lowball...I even went out of my way to clarify he's not actually a cloud to avoid this garbage lmao. Don't bust my balls.

"Let’s not even forget about Zamasu’s time-ring, which gives him immunity to time shennanigans"

-GER's power isn't time. It's reality. Time is merely effected because that's part of reality lol.

@thelocust619: -Niether has IZ, soo...?? Also I think you're confused...the reset has no attack potency at all, it does no damage at all.

- It doesn’t matter if it’s an attack or not. GER has not shown any ability to reset an effect as big as twelve universes.

“-This has nothing to do with size. Like...at all. He just had interdimensional powers. Very mild ones that didn't even allow him to escape the one he was in before it was destroyed.”

- whether it’s size or ability, it still encompasses twelve universes.

-“GER's power isn't time. It's reality. Time is merely effected because that's part of reality lol.“

- Where is it stated in the manga that GER affects reality?

@heretictroop:

-He doesn't need to. Idk why u think he does.

-Evidence? Because from what I remember, Zeno erased Trunks's universe and Zamasu died just fine. It literally doesn't matter what other universes Zamasu decides to laugh at, that won't stop him from being effected by whatever happens to the universe he's actually in.

-Are u sure u read the manga? Giorno says it literally throughout the entire fight, at least 3 times. The word reality is even in bold almost every time. But here, GER itself explains it nice and easy for you: http://manganelo.com/chapter/vento_aureo/chapter_587

"This is Requiem. What you see is indeed reality. Your ability (precog) indeed sees what will actually occur...however...you will never arrive at that reality that will occur! None who stand before me shall do so, no matter what abilities they wield! Not even my master, Giorno Giovanna knows this!"

Next chapter (for the punches) "Although I didnt get a clear look at Requiem's ability either, for some reason I know it in my heart... He (CK) no longer has anywhere to go...especially not reality...never again...he will never arrive at the reality of death."

@heretictroop: The answer to the last one is simple

King crimson is a stand that has the ability to see 10 seconds into the future and decide whether to erase it or not

In that 10 seconds, king crimson saw himself destroying giorno's chest to the heart and he dies. However GER intercepted, made that go to 0 so nothing happened. He changed reality and fate.

@thelocust619:

Yeah, but GER has not affected an effect as big as Zamasu’s ability.

Zamasu’s effect was that big, Also, you are making the mistake of comparing Zeno’s ability to GER, which is a bad idea.

Zeno’s hax encompassed 12 universes, so of course it would affect Zamasu. GER has not shown any ability to affect something similar to what Zeno has done.

GER has been shown to bbe affected by universal level abilities, like the time fast forward. His abilities are known to cap at universe level.

@heretictroop: "Yeah, but GER has not affected an effect as big as Zamasu."

-What?

"Zamasu’s effect was that big"

-K. That doesn't help him, but k.

"Also, you are making the mistake of comparing Zeno’s ability to GER, which is a bad idea."

-Not really.

"Zeno’s hax encompassed 12 universes, so of course it would affect Zamasu. GER has not shown any ability to affect something similar to what Zeno has done."

-All true. Good thing GER doesn't need to do what Zeno has done. Effecting the universe Zamasu is in is enough to effect him.

"GER has been shown to bbe affected by universal level abilities, like the time fas forward."

-Zamasu doesn't have time fas forward, so that's ok. Also Giorno wasn't there and hence had no reason to activate GER, so there's no chance to compare...what u mean is Giorno was shown.

@thelocust619: the universe zamasu is bigger than the universe in jojowiki since dragonball is known to be twelve times bigger than an ordinary universe.

So GER cannot affect him with his reset coz of this

Jesus, no one knows how Golden Experience Requiem actually works. It's one of the big confusing things of the entre series. Not even Giorno knows how it functions.

@stalin-is-steel: it doesn’t matter if we don’t know how GER works. We just have to determine where his abilities caps at.

Because saying he can reset anything is a NLF.

@heretictroop: He can't reset everything, he got beaten by Heaven Ascension Dio - although non canon

@stalin-is-steel: I'd argue king crimson to be more confusing. Yes it can erase the 10 seconds in the future that he saw and it won't happen (eg, if diavolo is shown to die in the forecast, he erases it and he won't die) but even after the time erasure, everything still happened (eg blood dropping, bullets shot, movement etc)

Golden Experience Requiem was described as being able to reset everything that puts giorno in anger to 0 so it has no effect and if killing someone, they experience infinite deaths.

@heretictroop: You're talking jibberish. Screw the wikis, stick to the source material.

First off, Zamasu occupied/fused to an area of space in one universe. He existed in one universe as part of it, and could effect other universes with dimensional powers. He was destroyed simply by destroying the universe he was in, it did not matter at all that tiny parts of him were in other universes. He died anyway. Obviously, you only need to effect one universe to effect all of Zamasu. Moreso, he's literally a part of the universe, by sheer logic whatever u do to the universe you do to him BECAUSE IT IS HIM lol.

Second, size is not a resistance to reality warping. Being able to peek into other dimensions doesn't protect you from reality warping unless u can escape its effect there...he obviously cant, because he's dead.

-You're doing this backwards. Zamasu is featless against reality reset. He has literally no resistance to Giorno's power. GER has nothing at all to prove. Unless you're trying to argue Zamasu BFRs itself to a different universe to to escape GER (which he can't do)...I don't see why you're bringing up other universes at all. Please, clarify your stance, as if I'm stupid if u have to.

Ascension Dio was basically high scale reality warping with the only weakness being that it needed to punch to do so. Golden Experience Requiem is just literal PIS in living form.

@zacrimsonwarudo:

Oh. I’m not talking anout Heaven Ascension Dio, that guy is prolly not even canon.

I’m talking about Made in Heaven. Which GER gets affected anyway, and is one with the reset

@thelocust619: Zamasu encompassed the entire timeline. You needed to be able to destroy an entire timeline to kill him, as what Zeno did. This is evidenced by a time ring disappearing when Zamasu was killed. Meaning Zamasu did merge with the entire twelve universes that Zeno erased.

As I said, there’s no reason to go into how GER’s hax works. We just have to look at the scale if GER’s hax, and what are the limits of his feats.

@heretictroop: "You needed to be able to destroy an entire timeline to kill him, as what Zeno did."

-This right here is the only part of ur post that matters. Clearly, effecting a single timeline effects Zamasu, and all ur "Zamasu = 12 universes" is made up headcanon you havent provided any evidence for. I asked earlier...still waiting. Big a claim that is, should be easy to prove.

And again, not that it matters at all, but GER never encountered MIH. GER doesn't do anything if it's not active lol. Ur either misinformed or outright lying when u say GER showed anything in regards to MIH. It never had the chance.

@thelocust619: Umm..yeah, because that’s what Zeno used to destroy him. Nevermind the fact that Zamasu was spreading to other timelines as well. Also, we even see Zamasu spread all out across the universe as shown on screen.

GER doesn’t need to encounter MiH. By you logic then this is an instawin for Zamasu even if we use you lowball about him being solar system in size. Because if GER can’t interpret an ability against him worlds apart, then surely he can’t do so against something A solar system away.

Oh, and you know what’s made up headcanon? That GER can reverse his own death, even tho’ it was not stated that he died at all.

That KingCrimson’s time ability is universal in nature. Nowhere does it state in the manga that KC affects the entire universe. Everybody just went along with it.

@heretictroop: And laughing at other universes didn't help Zamasu escape it at all. He still only needed to effect one timeline, nothing u say changes that fact.

"Also, we even see Zamasu spread all out across the universe as shown on screen."

-We actually dont. We just see him spread around the planet, then he starts doing interdimensional stuff. It's just an assumption that he spread all across the entire universe, I just roll with it cuz it's easier.

"GER doesn’t need to encounter MiH."

-Uh...yea, he does lol. Giorno doesn't just walk around with his GER out.

"By you logic then this is an instawin for Zamasu even if we use you lowball about him being solar system in size."

-I don't at all see how u came to that conclusion.

"Because if GER can’t interpret an ability against him worlds apart, then surely he can’t do so against something A solar system away."

-Wtf are you talking about?

"Oh, and you know what’s made up headcanon? That KingCrimson’s time ability is universal in nature. Nowhere does it state in the manga that KC affects the entire universe"

-When did I say that? I mean...an arguement can certainly made, but...I didn't say that, so why would u? Are we even having the same conversation?

I gotta be honest, u haven't been making sense for a while or backed anything up. I'm about bored with this

“Giorno doesn't just walk around with his GER out.“

- GER is an automatic stand. It moves and protects without the command of Giorno.

- also, if we go by your logic then Zamasu still wins even if we use the lowball for him being solar system in size since all Zamasu has to di is wait for Giorno to get old and die.

“We actually dont. We just see him spread around the planet, then he starts doing interdimensional stuff. It's just an assumption that he spread all across the entire universe, I just roll with it cuz it's easier.“

- you said before it was solar system size, now you’re lowballing him to planet size? Can make up your mind first?

Chaotziu's TK was weak as hell that's why he cannot hold down Nappa, Vegito was simply that powerful and had the resistance to fight as candy. In regards to the former, literally everyone has TK abilities and its power varies based off power level just like energy blasts. Which is why Chaotziu is useless.

@heretictroop: It affected GER because it didn't harm giorno, it only reset the universe

If it harmed giorno, GER would've reset the reset so nothing would've happened

HA Dio is the only thing we saw counter GER

@zacrimsonwarudo: It’s not a reset, it’s a fast forwarding of time. And it affected everybody.

Everybody died except for the kid. Meaning it did harm to everybody (including Giorno). Everybody died from the fast forward ability due to old age. Made in Heaven is a harmful ability since everybody on the universe gets affected by it.

If this is the case (GER did not activate coz it didn’t harm Giorno) then you’re admitting that GER has a very big weakness with abilities it cannot comprehend as harmful. Let’s say a meteor fell to the earth, everybody dies. GER cannot counter it because Giorno was not the target?

This assumption alone makes GER very weak; so all you need to do is target the planet and not GER for GER to not be able to do a reset?

All Zamasu has to do is destroy the sun, or destroy the planet Giorno is living in to pull a win. Not that I have a probelm with that, but just to make the fight a bit better in favor of Gold exp requiem, let’s use a more fair approach.

================================

Infinite Zamasu is universal+ in size, GER has not resetted something as acausal and as big as Infinite-Zamasu whose essence spreads on different timelines, and who is immune to death (immortal), and who is acausal (immune to being affected by time paradoxes). The best GER has ever resetted is King Crimson’s ability, which is twelve times as weak compared to Infinite Zamasu’s hax.

Infinite Zamasu is a hax ability, since it’s no longer limited to the physical and even temporal world. It even encompasses law and order as stated in the anime. Not sure if GER can affect something like that. But for fairness sake let’s say GER can affect Zamasu.

The fact is that, we don’t know how GER’s ability truly works, and we also don’t know how Zamasu’s ability works. But we do know where their abilities cap at, which is why GER loses to Infinite Zamasu.

So even if GER can affect Infinte Zamasu’s ability, he still loses due to scaling of hax. Meaning Zamasu would just shrug off the reset ability, and GER’s reset would not work against somehing as big as IZ.

why is manga merged zamasu number 5? manga zamasu was incredibly weak. anyways, he gets stomped at round 1

@heretictroop: MiH did reset the universe, that's why jolyne became Irene etc. Pucci was going to go to the same place he would've done before the reset to kill them iirc