Gods vs. Kryptonians

@wf_mxyzptlk: HeroClix. He's the original one man army.

I know and I still don't care.

@mysticmedivh: My view on the outcome remains.

The thing is, as far as I've seen Kingdom Come Superman isn't really that powerful. When I've asked for his feats all I've been told so far is "he is more powerful than regular Superman" or "he defeated regular Superman". Even the respect thread I found about him only mentioned small feats like those. That's not enough to give him a win against against 3 opponents like these at the same time.

It's the speed and durability. He literally, completely ignored a punch from Hercules, who can send Superman flying, without flinching. He is a lot stronger than Supes and a lot more durable. But the danger comes from the claim that he is as fast as Wally.

His showing in Thy Kingdom Come was indeed his most impressive. However, its still not that good. The hercules showing is often bandied about, but its insufficient, especially as the strike where he "sent superman flying" was through a low-impact cheapshot.

An offhand statement by Jay isn't enough to put KC Superman at Wally's level of speed. Just look at his fight with Gog in that same issue. Gog was tagging him like a chump the whole time, whereas he had a much harder go of it with speedsters (although he hit them too). KC Supes has shown nothing spectacular in terms of combat speed. Overall, the best speed feat he has is overwhelming Jay in travel speed.

I'm not even going to bring up the pathetic Convergence showing, either.

You know that is not the only showing of Hercules? Also, in that showing, Superman was shown bleeding. And, while it maybe was a cheap shot it was not as powerful as one he used on KC. There is nothing "Low impact" about making superman bleed.

And speed - Jay - who, very casually moves in nanoseconds couldn't properly see KC Supes when speeding. That puts KC at MFTL in atmosphere. Maybe not really as fast as Wally, but still MFTL.

Yeah I know there are two KC Superman, but really don't see them winning...however if there are proof that the statement is wrong I will listen.

Team

Gods

I don't know when drawing blood became a major thing. It happens all the time when Supes gets punched. Yes, KC Superman is stronger and tougher than regular Superman. However, he's not that much tougher. A weak version of Gog still beat him like a redheaded stepchild. Also, in convergence he seemed barely better, if better at all, than regular Supes.

No it doesn't. You're ready to give KCS all this enormous amount of credit yet ignore his actual showings of speed. The facts immediately sink MFTL dreams. Look at the original Kindom Come. KCS is moving at top speed, and yet he clearly takes several seconds (bare minimum) to reach the meta-human prison from partway around the planet. That's not MFTL. The fact that Supes is too slow to make it in time is a key plot point, far more significant than an offhand outlier statement.

"Jay said he was too fast therefore he's moving at MFTL" is a pretty shady argument when reconciled with the fact that he's never been that fast. Not to mention that KCS was clearly moving at sub light speed in that scene because he took a measurable amount of time to get where he wanted to be in that city.

I wanna say team 2 with high dif

Well Hercules has no purpose being there since he can't fly or move at superspeed and doesn't bring anything else to the table other than brute strength. Him trying to get into the fight will be like a puppy trying to jump up its owner's legs only to slide back down.

Captain Marvel and Beta Ray Bill aren't gods. Fail.

@wf_mxyzptlk: Drawing blood from superman was always a big thing. Anyhow, it is pure bull**** to say that Superman did not expect it as the second PUNCH sent him flying, clearly showing that he knew it was coming. SO.

A direct comparison. A punch sent Superman flying into a building. Punch from the same person 100% no sold by KC. Clearly, he is way more durable than regular supes.

He is also proven to be able to time nanoseconds. http://i.imgur.com/MYSnD9s.jpg

Any nanosecond timing is ftl. And a nanosecond timer being unable to track you speaks a lot for itself.

And yes, it is true that KC didn't show him being that fast, but it was because Kingdom Come is a story-driven comic, not a typical facesmashing we usually get to read.

@chimeroid:

Yes, he's stronger and tougher than regular Superman, that much is clear.

So you dismiss Kingdom Come as a source for Kingdom Come Superman? Please. That's the definitive source, and it explicitly showed him as not being fast enough. TKC is an outlier showing, not the other way around. Since you want to use outliers, we can look to regular Superman getting the upper hand on him in convergence, or him struggling against 90s Superboy.

If you think thats a legit nanosecond feat, I don't know what to tell you. He's gently putting down those soldiers as he talks to Clark. What's more, the soldiers are literally pointing at him, showing that they can perceive him. That would be impossible if he were moving at MFTL. Interesting that you would use a scan from The Kingdom for that feat, a book where he was portrayed as basically Supes' equal in the fight against Gog.

@wf_mxyzptlk: I know you are entitled to your opinion but you are sooooo wrong.

First of all I am dismissing NOTHING unlike you. You are demanding we dismiss everything outside KC. All of it is canon. Simple as that.

Secondly do you have any way to quantify how fast/slow he is in KC to prove author contradiction?

Thirdly, being equal to superman is still impressive speed wise.

Lastly, you camt speak of outliers when someone has very few feats.