You may know him, you may not know him, but one thing is for sure-- we've all come across the "best debater on CV", Cosmic_Lantern.
Now obviously I can't make a thread to bash another user, and that's not what this is, but I was inspired by the Veganism Hypocrisy rebuttal thread to create one large thread in which I dump every (or most of) the debates I've had with CL and duke it out.
So no this isn't a CAV, but you can bet your ass once he responds it'll be one of the most damn entertaining things you've seen on this site.
Whether he's bothering Lvenger to do a Naruto vs Superman CaV, or claiming DMS Kakashi can beat Hal Jordan, calling the 4th Raikage 1/3 the speed of light, or even recently stating an attack to be atomic even though it was blatantly said on-panel to be molecular, you might catch him in Naruto threads "enlightening the populace with his intelligence".
We'll be taking a closer look.
I won't be able to go through every time we've clashed obviously, but only the most recent ones that have been heated.
Topic - Whether Ohnoki's Dust Release works on an Atomic lvl
For context, start reading here and follow the progression of the debate till post 80. Picking up where we left off...
Go ahead and quantify 'near molecular' for me? This argument erroneously hints that you don't know the difference between a Molecule and an Atom(Which is honestly embarrassing since were all on the internet). A molecule is simply bonded atoms, water molecules are specifically two bonded atoms. Fire is literally a combustion of two oxygen atoms within itself and since he's by default using wind nature chakra as a medium we have a much more potent outcome, not to mention it's canonically confirmed that Wind boosts fire techniques so...... Atom is 'near molecular' and is much more consistent actually seeing as I said earlier even Naruto with his prototype rasenshuriken could use just the wind Shape manipulation to harden air molecules(copy and pasted):
The simple fact that you debunked yourself in this post is baffling. Exhibit A:
Ohnoki states that the technique is near-molecular, meaning it is close to molecular disassembly but not quite on that lvl. You said yourself that molecules are bonded atoms, (meaning atoms are smaller and thus harder to destroy) so to imply that Dust Release is atomic, the technique would have already surpassed molecular levels of destruction and proceeded to the next smallest lvl of classification, aka atoms. But we know that that is impossible since it only approaches molecules in the first place, meaning it didn't disperse the molecules entirely. So how can something target atoms if it barely skims the molecules?
Hell the genuine fact that we have Deidaras C4 which is composed of 2 elements in explosive release (Lightning/Earth) is more proof of this being consistent with onoki. Matter of fact whilst im at it heres one for Sasuke as well:
This has nothing to do with anything. Even if their techniques are chemically bonded on atomic levels they don't destroy other people's atoms. C4 was even specifically stated to destroy cells.
I can when everyother jutsu in the series basically describes itself in its name canonically, Is Light fang not legit? Is Earth splitting technique not exactly what it insinuates? What about Cyrstal Ice mirrors? water bullet? Mud wall? I guess 'particle style' doesn't matter at all even though that's basically the nature he's using? Please do come to a logical conclusion that adheres to canon for me.
You CAN NOT use the names of attacks to validate how powerful the attack is, but can do so for the nature of the attack. Every example you listed in the paragraph correlates the the nature of the attack (water release techniques use water, light fang is made of light, mud wall is made of mud/earth). However, when you want to come to a conclusion of how much damage an attack can do or what it's purpose is, you can't use the name of the technique to conjugate it, because technique names are often hyperbolic. Examples in the Naruto series itself include Kaguya's "All-Killing Ashbones" and the Rinnegan's "Catastrophic Planetary Devastation". While Ash bones certainly is a hax and can kill any being in the Narutoverse itself when tagged, you can't expect me to believe it'd harm someone like Death Seed Sentry who can regenerate from single atoms. So despite it's name it can't "kill" everything, and Chibaku tensei doesn't devastate planets despite that being what it's called.
An ego that you seem to be so infatuated with to the point where you don't deny attempting to emulate me, how comical. You can't come with some inconsistent garbage like Roar Canon and Vegetas big bang attack then attempt to compare it to a series that solely operates on assorted named techniques (Since the very first chapter). That is asinine.
Well in your opinion, I'm pretty sure Naruto isn't "inconsistent garbage" and there are several attack names in the series that can't be used to describe the power of said attack, which is precisely what you're doing for Particle style by calling it atomic even though it was stated by Ohnoki himself to be molecular.
Also why not add some more air to that ego? *Hits drink*
BTW I wouldn't take any tips from you judging from the amount of garbage usually coming from your mouth, so any rules you adhere by are non-existent to me I'm afraid. Me > You, if you haven't noticed; were of two completely different breeds, you don't have the ability to do the things I do so why would I set myself to a limitation so beneath myself by default?
Sigh. I wonder if you ever take a step back and look at the language you use on other people. If you haven't noticed by now, your attitude and overall demeanor when debating is very displeasing and it's one of the reason you've garnered such a negative reputation. Yeah I get snobby sometimes too, but with you it's literally every single time I see you debate.
Case in point:
would fail to see the difference between hyperbole and legitimacy knowing that 'jutsu' means 'technique' off the bat. It really is amazing how anyone beyond a middleschool education standard could not tell the difference between an atom and a molecule and misplace an adverb/adjective as hyperbole. I guess 'transform no jutsu' is hyperbole as well by your definition? Also I'd stop with the anger accusations seeing as you seem to be the only one hot and bothered that I called out including the insinuation that saitama would do just about anything to hulk along with your obvious inability to read accurately.
Smh. Change your ways dude.
Topic - Whether DMS Kakashi is faster than Naruto
Here is the second thread. Read post 46 and 57. He thinks he "shut me up" on this encounter but really the thread just got locked before I could respond, lol.
What? So let me get this straight, Sasuke sends Naruto from Lower orbit casually and he wipes out a mountain-range
Except this never happened. They didn't go into lower orbit until their two ultimate techniques clashed (Indra's arrow and Six paths Big ball rasenshuriken) and Sasuke never wiped out a "mountain range". The explosion was around 4 mountains wide at best which is multi-mountain lvl:
O/T I actually like Genos, however it's Garbage spewers such as yourself that dissuade me from giving Saitama any slack, especially since you know full and well silly statements come with consequences especially when directed towards me.
So you do admit to character and fanbase bias? Delightful.
Great, so you again jumped in something that didn't involve you simply because my name was involved? Don't get both sides of the conversation just, 'CL is wrong' because you don't have anything better to do than to get degraded by me again? Do you like following me just show I can in-turn show you that your subpar material can't measure up to the real deal in yours truly?
What? Where did this strawman come from? All I said was "show me where I said this", when you impled I said Boros' moon kick would oneshot Saitama-- which, by the way, I never said. Did I ask you for a sob story?
More does not equate to better, Sasuke and Naruto got mopped by Kaguya multiple times. Kakashi practically solo'd, he devised the plan, set up the opening, countered for them when they specifically couldn't, etc. I could flood scans but seeing as you're next level ignorant I'll just give you the full chapter here where everything is irrefutable.
Even if you want to make a case for Kakashi being faster than Naruto by scaling to Kaguya, your logic is still inherently flawed because Naruto has feats of tagging her 1v1 when she was staring him down, rather the best example of Kakashi tagging her fair and sqaure was with the Kamui Raikiri:
Granted he tagged her with Kamui Shuriken as well, but she was still in her Tailed Beast form at the time where it seemed she didn't have complete control of her actions. Now, I can admit that DMS Kakashi operates at a speed that is easily on similar levels on the Ninja jesus duo-- that is not something I've ever denied, but to imply he is far faster than epilogue Naruto (and yes, Marc eventually cleared up that he never limited his discussion with Lven to War arc and our argument branched from their's) is unfounded when Naruto has better speed feats like dodging Light Fang and pushing his hand through Toneri's Golden Rebirth Explosion which extended past the diameter of the moon in roughly 2 seconds.
So in this case, while "more does not equate to better", I'm afraid Naruto has more AND better speed feats than Kakashi, and one's that don't rely on a spec of scaling.
This is why talking to you utterly disgusts me, can you not read or do you just choose not to?
Again, this was BEFORE she gained a massive amp and Naruto had trouble reacting to her, he even blantantly states it: Hell Not even Sasuke in his wildest dreams would be able to replicate that, not to mention she casually reacted to Sasuke's teleblitz: Where as Naruto barely got by: Also clear to note Sasuke already had Chidori in hand when he blitzed Kaguya unlike when he did it against Naruto and charged it behind him. Not to mention this erroneously hints you didn't actually read the damn Manga where she's fodderizing Sasuke whilst smiling playfully the ENTIRE fight, like so even with one arm:
Cool beans. Anyone who's actually read the series can acknowledge the fact that Kaguya is faster than the Ninja Jesus duo, and this is something that again, I have never denied nor went against. I just think it's illogical to arrive at the conclusion that Kakashi is faster than either of the duo by scaling to Kaguya, when Kaguya is faster than all 3 of them individually, and the only reason why she struggled in the first place was their perfect teamwork, synergy, and timed attacks. She casually blew past Naruto and Sasuke several times, and at one point Kakashi even noted that her speed was immense, so the fact that you said repeatedly that Kakashi "blitzed" Kaguya (implying the gap between them was insurmountable) is nonsensical at best as she'd stomp him 1v1. Don't believe me? Just take a look at the last few pages of chapter 689 carefully and see for yourself that it was their amazing synchronization and strategy as a team that allowed them to pull a win:
It was a hefty combination of substitutions and coordination that helped them pull a win, which you stated yourself:
Kakashi practically solo'd, he devised the plan, set up the opening, countered for them when they specifically couldn't
So while like it's that you don't know anything you're talking about, you'd be contradicting yourself if you continue to say "hur durr Kakashi blitzed kaguya several times" when it was only possible because he calculated her exact moves and planned the right moments to attack her and whatnot, meaning it's far from the straight up full frontal blitz that you continue to make it seem. I also have reasons to believe that if they fought 1v1 he'd get bullied by her, as she wouldn't have other factors to worry about because we already know Kaguya is distracted easily.
Hell, you also forgot to mention the time where she's already showcased her superiority to Naruto by clowning him in CQC
You mean his clones?
Also another clear indication you don't know what the hell you're talking about as it was blatantly stated here:
My bad, I do recall stating that the amp didn't boost her speed which was incorrect, but seeing as it doesn't change my point nor improve yours I'd be interested to see how you expand on this. Whether she was faster or not wouldn't matter in the long run because she's still as fast (if not faster) Kakashi individually.
Excuse me, what? Did you say you were going to embarrass me 'again' as if you ever have?
Oh you mean like in our CaV where the entire world saw you rage quit after I defeated you w/o a shred of effort until the third post?
Sir it's not even negotiable at this point, I am a whole different animal than you could ever hope to be.
This is true, I'm the predator while you're the prey. Gotta love nature.
In-fact you utterly aspire to be me seeing as I've caught you stealing my material word-for-word in multiple threads. You don't have the skill, competence, or just about any aptitude for keeping up a rational conversation let alone a feasible debate.
What on earth do you mean by entertain? Must I waste my time again shutting you up like in that very thread?
You didn't "shut me up" I was just too busy to respond and I forgot, not to mention if I had responded I probably would've called you a name that would end up in my being banned from this site...
But while we're at it, since you think linking threads means "shutting me up" then what about your lack of response in this thread?-
It's pretty obvious that you never responded after I silenced you with a murderous amount of scans... which is funny considering moments before in that exact same thread you called me out on claiming that I was an "authority" on the topic of GoH, which at this point is pretty much a fact.
So why'd you never respond then baby boy? Got scared that Jin Mo-Ri whups Sasuke's scrawny ass in h2h with stats equal and solos the verse without equalization?
Literally everything that comes out of your mouth is unsubstantiated garbage based on how you're feeling at the moment, it's like asking a kindergartner whose the best teacher in the school.
Because flagrantly insulting me somehow makes you the better debater? W O W !!!!11!!1
Since we both know you're most likely going to:
>Reply to parts of the argument
>Not actually read the argument before commenting
>Ignore it because you don't like it
>Go off-topic to attempt to restore a destroyed argument
>or simply regurgitate more bullshit claims
You're dismissed. Clown.
None of which I did, nor ever have done. But cool story bro.
Topic - Slot Reserved
I was kind of rushed in making this thread, seeing as a lot of people wanted me to respond as soon as possible. So while I didn't all of of the counters in, you guys will be delighted to find out that this thread will get (yay). I've clashed with him many times before, and when he responds I'll probably post in this thread too because I can't be bothered to make another one.
With that said and done, good day, and Happy Vining everyone.