GoD Toppo fodderizes Goku Black. One casual hakai blast from Toppo literally overwhelmed Golden Freeza and made him use up so much energy he was back to Final Form with serious damage and this was a GF who was = blue goku before the tournament
Black may be as powerful as Golden Frieza. Vegeta super blue form was barely stronger than God Toppo, and he was equal to ssj blue kkx 20. This means Toppo would be nearly 20 times more powerful than ssj Rose as GF is equal to ssj blue Goku. This isnt counting how much stronger Frieza actually might be than black rose, and Vegeta being stronger than ssj blue x 20.
Toppo is not stomping a thing. Hakai can be countered with sufficient energy output, as demonstrated by Vegeta in his new SSB form. That being said, Toppo still wins but in a good fight.
@noobsnowman: Toppo most certainly is stomping. Goku Black is in no way comparable to Beyond SSB Vegeta. He most likely is inferior to True Golden Freeza who got stomped by GoD Toppo. Black is doing no better even if he is stronger since he's nowhere near as strong as BSSB Vegeta.
I say Toppo, but this is a very close fight. SSB Rose proved to be superior then SSB Vegeta and Goku. It seemed they wouldn't be able to defeat him even together when he was at peak of his power (after he created the dimension warping scythe and was able to create clones he seemed nearly unstoppable) GoD Toppo is for sure more powerful then SSB Vegeta or Goku as well, but together? Who knows. I only say that he wins because he seemed more powerful then most gods of destruction we know off (he was certainly more powerful then Sidra since the same attack caused a lot more damage to golden Frieza) and SS Rose did not seem to worry Beerus that much. I think destruction energy is powerful enough to destroy Rose if it's at full power. This is the only reason why I say Toppo, but still Rose is gonna give him one hell of a battle.
@superdragoon978: How is a being who can beat 2 SSBs at once, has hax up his sleeve, and has superior power progression compared to Saiyans inferior to True Golden Frieza?
SSR Goku Black is definitely comparable to Beyond SSB Vegeta. In fact, Toppo in his God form has glaring weaknesses that Black can at least exploit to make the fight more difficult for Toppo to win.
@noobsnowman: Sorry, but Black is not comparable to Beyond Blue Vegeta. Black was winning against 2 Black Arc SSJB's, but lost to Vegeta when he raged. In comparison, Beyond Blue Vegeta is infinitely superior to raged SSJB Vegeta considering he outright performed better against Jiren than his angry SSJB self. Additionally, Beyond Blue was implied to be equal SSBKKX20, which is (obviously) 20x Blue, as opposed to Black who is, at best, 3-4x Blue.
@noobsnowman: Wut? You can't be serious. Black is NOT comparable to SSBE Vegeta. At all. He struggled against two Black arc SSB's. Both of whom were holding back, at the very least Goku was (he overwhelmed initial Fusion Zamasu in a beam struggle; this is also why Freeza is superior to Black as Freeza was Goku's equal). They got stronger since then and SSBE is at least a 20x multiplier considering Vegeta was equal or superior to Kaioken x20 SSB Goku. Black is ridiculously outclassed in power by Vegeta at this point.
@noobsnowman: SSBE Vegeta is arguably fused Zamasu tier in strength. Black is nowhere close to that. Black is probably weaker than regular Blue Vegeta and Goku.
@noobsnowman: Regular SSB Goku severely damaged fused Zamasu and KK Goku kicked him pretty good. And in the manga version mastered SSB Goku was practically even with merged Zamasu, and in Toriyama's original draft they weren't even going to become Vegito because two SSB would be enough for him.
@alextheboss: The beam struggles are PIS considering how easily Zamasu dominated the trio prior. If you take it at face value then you must agree that SSB Goku is stronger than SSB Vegeta and Trunks combined, which we both know is blatantly untrue.
Manga is different from the anime and original drafts are irrelevant so I'm not going to go further for obvious reasons.
@noobsnowman: Well Goku did injure his arms doing that. Imo they should have had him use kaioken there so it would of made more sense. Either way SSR Black was only end of Black arc/begging of ToP arc SSB level.
@alextheboss: I disagree. By his peak he was able to keep both SSB Goku and Vegeta hostage and make Vegeta's superiority over Goku nonexistent. Besides, he has accolades of being the strongest at that time not only by Gowasu but by the producer of DBS himself.
@noobsnowman: The producer stated that before the end of the arc. I don't remember the Gowasu statement, but I assume that was also before their final confrontation. I agree Black might of been a bit stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta at the end of the Black arc, but KKx2 would be enough for Goku to surpass him.
@alextheboss: Well if he is able to take on multiple SSBs at once and make Vegeta's superiority over Goku like it's nothing, then shouldn't he be quite a bit above SSB then?
@alextheboss: By their third confrontation, Vegeta trained in the HTC to channel his hatred of Black to his strength, and openly voiced his superiority over Goku that Goku passively acknowledged.
Black isn't just holding them off with his clones. He was as good as drinking coffee while his clones did all the work, with Goku and Vegeta being completely unable to approach Black - nevermind engage him in battle let alone defeat him. He was literally laughing and keeping his arms folded while Goku and Vegeta were struggling with their lives at the clones.
Besides, I have Black comparable to Toppo because he has feats that matches Toppo's to make up for the power difference. Black's ability tear dimension fabrics through space and time with a single slice of his scythe without even needing to hit his opponent is a better feat than Toppo altering the ToP environment with his Energy of Destruction that is required to hit his opponent to begin with. If Toppo wins this, which he very likely will, he takes it in a complete bloodbath and not a stomp.
@alextheboss: By their third confrontation, Vegeta trained in the HTC to channel his hatred of Black to his strength, and openly voiced his superiority over Goku that Goku passively acknowledged.
Black isn't just holding them off with his clones. He was as good as drinking coffee while his clones did all the work, with Goku and Vegeta being completely unable to approach Black - nevermind engage him in battle let alone defeat him. He was literally laughing and keeping his arms folded while Goku and Vegeta were struggling with their lives at the clones.
Besides, I have Black comparable to Toppo because he has feats that matches Toppo's to make up for the power difference. Black's ability tear dimension fabrics through space and time with a single slice of his scythe without even needing to hit his opponent is a better feat than Toppo altering the ToP environment with his Energy of Destruction that is required to hit his opponent to begin with. If Toppo wins this, which he very likely will, he takes it in a complete bloodbath and not a stomp.
Lmao when did goku acknowledge vegeta being stronger than him? Anyways toppo stomps Fused zamasu was almost killed by pre TOP blue goku and only survived because of his immortality. So why doesn't toppo just hakai black?
@noobsnowman: Vegeta always acts like he is better than Goku, and I don't remember him, Goku, or Black ever saying Vegeta was stronger. And if Black was as strong as you say there would of been no need for him to fuse with the other Zamasu.
@alextheboss: No, Vegeta knows when he is superior or inferior to Goku, which is why he conceded inferiority to Goku many times yet remained determined to surpass him. It's further supported by the fact that Goku was not dominating Zamasu as convincingly as when he was consumed by rage, yet we seen that Vegeta was beating a significantly superior opponent in a form of Goku Black.
Black and Zamasu fused not because Black had troubles with the duo, it was because Zamasu was completely paranoid after barely escaping the Evil Containment Wave technique. It's the same logic to when Frieza at his third form decided to transform when Gohan remotely threatened him - he didn't have to, he just wanted to because he was that paranoid.
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