God Cloth Saints (All of them) Athena Hades Cronus vs Moro Hit Goku Black Golden Frieza Jiren Kefla

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gelato_exotic

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@anti-pope:

Hiii I've been ok, hbu?

Pretty sure they can, it's been shown since the Buu Saga that regular Ki can damage souls when targeted to do so.

Btw I was wondering, where were Hades realms stated to be infinite in size?

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VertigoStrike

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#52  Edited By VertigoStrike

@gelato_exotic: Bruh literally there's nothing out of context that's just you trying to interpret it in a different way than what was stated.

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Yeah obviously it was manifestations because if they went at it in the physical world then everything would be destroyed. The manifestation still needed enough power of the cosmos to replicate such feat. They would still needed to be in another plane of reality in order to show such power being made.

What Paradox sees are possibilities and fates that do not exist upon her viewing them. The whole plot point of that episode is Ryuho being forced to to decide which possible future he will make reality.

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Paradox even verbatim confirms that these possibilities cannot both exist as reality. There are infinite possibilities but only one can become reality, possibilities=/=actual reality . Even in our world there are infinite possibilities for everything, doesn't mean they actually exist, and in Saint Seiya they're stated not to.

^Ok literally was not my point. My main point was to demonstrate you the Crossroad Mirage ability makes the rival go to another dimension and shows the adversary two different possible futures for the same present. The body of her rival, is in the middle of the two possible futures, mainly by creating a crossroads, not knowing which undecided way is right and is defeated by the mental pressure exerted.

It was mainly to highlight that infinite universes exist so long choices are being made but one can only live in one of them due to them making that specific choice.

Also, you do fail to grasp that cronus is still above that. Even hades himself displays better feats than that and cronus still slaps him.

For example,

Hades Created the Super Dimensional Space which consists of billions upon billions of galaxies, along with an endless realm known as Elysium and maintained these realms' existence through his own power

Hades Effortlessly blitzed 5 God Knights who have MFTL+ feats in much weaker forms, such as crossing the Super Dimensional Space in minutes (timeframe confirmed by the fact that the eclipse had not yet plunged the Earth into Darkness, which Hades said would take mintues before they traversed this distance).

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and

Hades Can take a combined attack from 5 God Knights and remain standing, which also means he has some immunity to atomic destruction.

Cronus being superior to all of this still has the hourglass which affects the timeline at a universal scale and also has the Pragma Spathe which allows him to remove and manipulate distance, allowing him to hit the opponent instantaneously along with other hax.

So you have yet to provide a counter as to how the DB team is going to withstand the hourlgass hax, that affects the whole timeline the pragma scathe, and how he is able to perceive 4-Dimensionally and manipulating history at a whim.

Also cronos has his astral form which is in another state of reality so how they gonna deal with that as well?

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VertigoStrike

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@vertigostrike:

Agyo and Ungyo are just a universal attack spam that doesn't fit their classic AP, you would have had a better point by saying that hades would be multiversal by creating realms of infinite size, The only multiversal in SS are chronos, zeus, abzu, saturn, koga.

I'm glad to see that there are still people who defend SS on this forum, but you just gave him ammunition to blow up your argument.

Gelato is pretty well aware of that, its not like the first time he is ever seen that argument so I didn't bother elaborating it further.

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anti-pope

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@gelato_exotic:

Glad to hear it

No they can't affect ghosts in DBZ the only time they have techniques that can officially do that is when the hakai wipes out dr mahito

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Elysion and hell are declared infinite.

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gelato_exotic

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#55  Edited By gelato_exotic

@vertigostrike:

Yeah obviously it was manifestations because if they went at it in the physical world then everything would be destroyed. The manifestation still needed enough power of the cosmos to replicate such feat. They would still needed to be in another plane of reality in order to show such power being made.

It's not literal, this is already explained with the Yin Yang and Light and Darkness interchangement and comparisons. It's never stated they were in another plane of reality or anything of the sort, and on the contrary:

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It's stated not once, but twice, that everything went down in the Virgo Temple.

^Ok literally was not my point. My main point was to demonstrate you the Crossroad Mirage ability makes the rival go to another dimension and shows the adversary two different possible futures for the same present. The body of her rival, is in the middle of the two possible futures, mainly by creating a crossroads, not knowing which undecided way is right and is defeated by the mental pressure exerted.

Uhhh, he literally overpowered that ability and broke out of having to choose either fate just watch the episode linked, and this is Yhwach's Almighty tier NLF and what it does is show them possible futures, it doesn't force one into existence nor does it conventionally force one into reality.

It was mainly to highlight that infinite universes exist so long choices are being made but one can only live in one of them due to them making that specific choice.

What it says is infinite possibilities, not actual existing infinite universes or timelines, and it's stated that they don't exist (all of the choices don't coexist that is, and only a select single one becomes reality).

Also, you do fail to grasp that cronus is still above that. Even hades himself displays better feats than that and cronus still slaps him.

Proof Cronus scales to Hades? Because in story at the end of the fight with Aiolia when both are defeated, Cronus literally begs Hades to save Aiolia and gives him his dunamis because Cronus is helpless himself.

Hades Created the Super Dimensional Space which consists of billions upon billions of galaxies

It's never stated there are billions of galaxies, that's an assumption from disingenuous and ambiguous phrasing.

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What it says is ten billion lights, and for the record SS has always been perfectly keen for using the term galaxies when describing galaxies, and it doesn't use galaxies as the noun connected to 10 billion, yet "lights" is a pretty common phrase for stars in japanese, which'd be pretty consistent with the number of galaxies depicted on panel and the amount of stars in the average galaxy. Assuming it has any more galaxies than what's shown on panel without the mention of the phrase "10 billion galaxies" is headcanon.

along with an endless realm known as Elysium and maintained these realms' existence through his own power

The usage of "endless" isn't what the japanese said at all.

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What it describes is a "timeless" "immortal" "dateless" "eternal" realm.

無限 standalone as a word does mean infinite, but sadly の is connected to it for 無限の which kinda completely shoots that down (the latter talks about directly infinite time hence the synonymously terminology for things like eternal, not necessarily size).

Obv no one should take my word for it, so here're some citations laying out the difference between subsets of 無限, and 無限の, both english and japanese sources

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of/japanese-word-054890327d0dc15a062ad461bef8489e353d3d31.html

https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/無限の

https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/en-jp/%E7%84%A1%E9%99%90%E3%81%AE/

Here's a better in world example:

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%84%A1%E9%99%90%E3%81%AE%E4%BD%8F%E4%BA%BA

https://glosbe.com/ja/en/%E7%84%A1%E9%99%90%E3%81%AE%E4%BD%8F%E4%BA%BA

無限のis used in the title itself for a really famous japanese work which you might've heard of, and it's quite literally called "Blade of the immortal (or eternal)".

Hades Effortlessly blitzed 5 God Knights who have MFTL+ feats in much weaker forms, such as crossing the Super Dimensional Space in minutes (timeframe confirmed by the fact that the eclipse had not yet plunged the Earth into Darkness, which Hades said would take mintues before they traversed this distance).

Hades Can take a combined attack from 5 God Knights and remain standing, which also means he has some immunity to atomic destruction.

Sure, but if you don't mind, I'd like to see some proof these long distance travel speed feats scale to their reactions and combat speed.

So you have yet to provide a counter as to how the DB team is going to withstand the hourlgass hax, that affects the whole time line the pragma scathe, and how he is able to perceive 4-Dimensionally and manipulating history at a whim.

What hourglass hax? Destroying an hourglass to slowly bust locations such as Earth and the Castle of Titans through a chain reaction of time epochs? Not sure what that's adding here, nor is it ever stated to affect the whole timeline.

Scan for him having "4-D perception" and manipulating history? Don't remember him ever doing this in the manga.

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gelato_exotic

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#56  Edited By gelato_exotic

@anti-pope:

No they can't affect ghosts in DBZ the only time they have techniques that can officially do that is when the hakai wipes out dr mahito

They can.

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Which is confirmed in the Daizenshuu to be actual ghosts with their own sentience and consciousness:

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And this is further confirmed recently in the Manga with the established direct correlation between the soul and ki, hence how Gotenks literally creates souls from Ki:

(Left to right)

It was stated that destroying the spiritual flesh bodies involves destroying the soul, which Buu was capable of.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stPl5BYzOck

There's also this feat, where Goku Vegeta Trunks are able to interact with and cause slight damage to Infinite Zamasu in the air, who is a literal soul merging with the cosmos.

Elysion and hell are declared infinite.

For Hell, the phrasing of "endless" is being used in the sense of endless time/eternal/endlessly existing and isn't talking about spatial size, this is crystal clear with the wording used in the original japanese:

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The phrase used, 果てしない hateshinai means endless in the sense of never ending (timeless) synonymous with like eternal and everlasting, not anything about spatial size.

Obv, shouldn't take my word for it

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And if that is not enough, here's a japanese dictionary from japan itself, which explains this:

https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/果てしない. It's saying that Hell is an endless realm synonymous with the phrase for eternal, everlasting, never finishing or changing, etc. not an infinite size one.

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VertigoStrike

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@gelato_exotic: Ok you dont have to explain the lore to me twice, I know what happened. Also, you keep acting like the gold saints are not universal aside from that fight.

Seiya unleashes a Big Bang when he fights Taurus Aldebaran, with Taurus Aldebaran stating it's a Big Bang in the manga, Japanese subs, and English Dub. Even the raws refer to it as a Big Bang (in Engrish) and then confirms it again on the following page.Aldebaran goes on to say Seiya is growing as strong as a gold saint

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Here is Aries Mu absorbs Dimension Iaptus' dimension, which Leo Aiolia stated was not an illusion and compared to the universe

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Aries Shion is stated by a spectre to have the power to destroy the universe and reshape it.

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Uhhh, he literally overpowered that ability and broke out of having to choose either fate just watch the episode linked, and this is Yhwach's Almighty tier NLF and what it does is show them possible futures, it doesn't force one into existence nor does it conventionally force one into reality.

Ok still not my point, I already know that. My main premise is to highlight that there is an infinite amount of universe in the saint seiya verse. That's it, the universes branches out based of the possibilities of choices and those choices are being infinitely made since its choice always happens.

What it says is infinite possibilities, not actual existing infinite universes or timelines, and it's stated that they don't exist (all of the choices don't coexist that is, and only a select single one becomes reality).

Yeah no, that's your interpretation. You ought to show me gemini paradox directly stating that they weren't real otherwise you are just making stuff up.

Proof Cronus scales to Hades? Because in story at the end of the fight with Aiolia when both are defeated, Cronus literally begs Hades to save Aiolia and gives him his dunamis because Cronus is helpless himself.

How does cronus not scale above hades? He is literally his father and before episode G the only way cronus was only defeated after tricking the Titan King into releasing the other Olympians, Zeus declared war on Kronos, releasing the Cyclopses and the Hekatonkheires from the Underworld to help him. Ultimately, Zeus defeated Kronos and the other Titans, sealing them within Tartarus.

Yea,h your interpretation varies on the billions of galaxies so I'm not gonna count your word on it unless the site accepts it as objective truth.

Also you seem to forget that hades has his hyper dimension which is to be bigger than the saint seiya universe:

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Bruh...... a being that can control time can only be 4D it doesnt take a genius to see it. That's the purpose of the hourglass, I like how you still fail to explain how they gonna resist a hax that can manipulate the timeline itself at a universal scale smh.

Here are his feats:

Astral form, under three seals, using only his Cosmo:

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- Teleos Oracle: A mind-controlling technique that puts a divine curse on the victim who tries to resist becoming the servant of Cronus, leading to a life of treason and persecution.

- Khaos Hyetos: Creates clouds whose black rain home in and phase into the enemy's body as Cosmo-draining sharp needles, bypassing barriers and armors.

- Phainomenon Arkhein: Manipulates any natural phenomena imbuing them with his divine Cosmo, for example summoning underground currents and turning them into Cosmo-consuming flames, manipulating wind currents into attack waves or into containing and redirecting FTL lightning attacks for energy absorption, or creating black smoke explosions. The only phenomenon outside of his direct control was lightning, as a consequence of the victory of Zeus in the Titanomachy war.

Under one seal, after manifesting Dunamis and equipping the Megas Drepanon:

- Yami No Meido (Darkness Roar): The vibration of his 4 floating arms generates a resonance field whose waves can paralyze his enemy and cut his body and internal energies, for both offense and defense as a barrier around his body that can stop Gold Saint attacks

- Guardian Stars: After the destruction of the Yami No Meido (it isn't clear if it is necessary), he makes three strands of his hair grow and transform into stars. Each of them can transform into giants, said to be most powerful of all giants:

  • Jade Armor: Nefristo Hoplimas: It has a humaoid form, it's strong enough to overpower Aldebaran and durable enough to whistand attacks of the Aldebaran and Shura.
    • Dunamis Pelekus: It can concentrate a big quantity of dunamis in his punches and use it to attack while generating shockwaves.
  • Beast of Amber: Electron Teru: It appears in the form of lion. It's able to control fire, shooting it like fireballs and controlling it's trajectory.
    • Dunamis Odous: gathers huge amount of Dunamis in it's mouth and fires it as a powerful fireball.
  • Pearl Dragon: Magarites Dracon: Giant in the form of the dragon, as such it can use magical attacks and is very resistant to cosmo based techniques (especially ice). It can also control water forming it into needles and water balls. It's imprevious to pain.
    • Dunamis Pneuma: focuses huge amount of Dunamis in the mouth and fires it as a powerful stream of water.

Cronus is also able to supply giants with his own Dunamis drastically increasing their stats.

- Complete Form: after destroying Psammos Adamas and absorbing it's essence as well as fusing with Megas Drepanon, Cronus is able to greatly increase his power. He gains two additional arms (six in total), each one of these arms is covered in blue flames (which represents time itself) and they are slowly fading away, destruction of all flames is equivalent to destruction of the time. He also gains two additional faces. This form focuses more on pure combat power. His fighting style is based on controlled immense violence associated with a specific computing capacity and his understanding of the spatial dimensions is well above human - which allows him to instantly shift his position. Power of his previous techniques is also increased.

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^^^^ How in the world are DB expected to survive that type of hax?

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gelato_exotic

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#58  Edited By gelato_exotic

@vertigostrike:

Seiya unleashes a Big Bang when he fights Taurus Aldebaran, with Taurus Aldebaran stating it's a Big Bang in the manga, Japanese subs, and English Dub. Even the raws refer to it as a Big Bang (in Engrish) and then confirms it again on the following page.Aldebaran goes on to say Seiya is growing as strong as a gold saint

This isn't referring to literal Big Bang level power... ya know this was BoS Seiya after having barely awakened the 7th sense? While top tier Gold Saints still need AE to reach Big Bang level till EoS:

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Or later on, Seiya needing to burn his cosmo exponentially higher than what happened here to overpower Saga's explosion, which is verbatim stated to just destroy planets/stars of a galaxy, and a galaxy itself at peak, not close to universal.

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Literally so many feats and statements indicative otherwise. Anyways, there's no problem since there isn't a contradiction present.

All Cosmos attacks are figuratively described as Big Bangs, and this statement was a testament to Seiya beginning to tap into cosmos:

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Here is Aries Mu absorbs Dimension Iaptus' dimension, which Leo Aiolia stated was not an illusion and compared to the universe

Aiolia isn't really a credible source for this, he mistakes it for a universe merely by seeing a starry sky. However, we're told it's an unnatural dimension created by Lapetus and not a natural universe, and assuming it's one lacks evidence.

Aries Shion is stated by a spectre to have the power to destroy the universe and reshape it.

It's like it could, the Spectre is making a self questioning speculative statement after being shocked by his power, it's not too objective.

However, if we take a look at his next statement, it becomes clear what he's referring to:

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He's talking about the Gold Saints as a whole, and you know what gives further credence?

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The original classic manga, in which a stronger incarnation of the Aries Saint (Mu) in a later time period needs to take party in an Athena Exclamation to perform a Big Bang level attack, which coincides perfectly with the statement of the Spectre talking about Gold Saints plural.

Gold Saints being universal individually goes against the entire core lore of the Athena Exclamation, a true Big Bang level attack, needing 3 Gold Saints to burn their cosmos to their absolute limits to reach this level, and this attack being outright banned due to how powerful it is, it's something they're not close to individually.

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As for this part, we're later given substantiation from Anti Pope Aiolos on it further:

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And is in reference to the power of the Gold Saints altogether (which again, makes perfect sense with the Spectre saying Gold Saints plural). No Gold Saint is individually universal.

Ok still not my point, I already know that. My main premise is to highlight that there is an infinite amount of universe in the saint seiya verse. That's it, the universes branches out based of the possibilities of choices and those choices are being infinitely made since its choice always happens.

The universes are never stated to be branched off of these possibilities. These possibilities are all possible fates of a single respective universe.

Yeah no, that's your interpretation. You ought to show me gemini paradox directly stating that they weren't real otherwise you are just making stuff up.

She quite literally says multiple of these possibilties cannot become reality, and that one has to be chosen.

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Even makes phrases such as this, further establishing that these are not reality and mere probabilities and possibilities.

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How does cronus not scale above hades? He is literally his father and before episode G the only way cronus was only defeated after tricking the Titan King into releasing the other Olympians, Zeus declared war on Kronos, releasing the Cyclopses and the Hekatonkheires from the Underworld to help him. Ultimately, Zeus defeated Kronos and the other Titans, sealing them within Tartarus.

What does any of this mean for who's stronger than who? What does Cronus being his father mean anything? Is Goku weaker than Bardock :/? Is Minato>Naruto?

Yea,h your interpretation varies on the billions of galaxies so I'm not gonna count your word on it unless the site accepts it as objective truth.

Appeal to popularity and there is no interpretation going on here, I've pointed out how there's no evidence nor statement nor remote indication of the Hyperdimension having billion of galaxies. Assuming it does just because a few dozen galaxies were shown is the only interpretation based on unfounded assumptions here.

Also you seem to forget that hades has his hyper dimension which is to be bigger than the saint seiya universe:

Wha... the hyperdimension IS the dimension with the galaxies we've been talking about....

Where in any of your scans was it stated to be bigger than the universe? And if you've read the Hades Arc in the Manga, it's consistently referenced to be below the scope of the universe...

Bruh...... a being that can control time can only be 4D it doesnt take a genius to see it. That's the purpose of the hourglass, I like how you still fail to explain how they gonna resist a hax that can manipulate the timeline itself at a universal scale smh.

Controlling time through hax and special abilities has no credence to "4-D" dimensional existence, or whatever. Guess Fairy Tail and Bleach characters and characters like Hit are "4-D" for having abilities to control time.

Still don't see any evidence for him doing this on a universal scale so if you don't mind, I'd like to see some scans and for all these unfounded claims about controlling time, because Cronus himself explicitly stated only the Earth and the Castle of the Titans were being affected, as I posted in multiple scans above.

- Teleos Oracle: A mind-controlling technique that puts a divine curse on the victim who tries to resist becoming the servant of Cronus, leading to a life of treason and persecution.

- Khaos Hyetos: Creates clouds whose black rain home in and phase into the enemy's body as Cosmo-draining sharp needles, bypassing barriers and armors.

- Phainomenon Arkhein: Manipulates any natural phenomena imbuing them with his divine Cosmo, for example summoning underground currents and turning them into Cosmo-consuming flames, manipulating wind currents into attack waves or into containing and redirecting FTL lightning attacks for energy absorption, or creating black smoke explosions. The only phenomenon outside of his direct control was lightning, as a consequence of the victory of Zeus in the Titanomachy war.

Under one seal, after manifesting Dunamis and equipping the Megas Drepanon:

- Yami No Meido (Darkness Roar): The vibration of his 4 floating arms generates a resonance field whose waves can paralyze his enemy and cut his body and internal energies, for both offense and defense as a barrier around his body that can stop Gold Saint attacks

- Guardian Stars: After the destruction of the Yami No Meido (it isn't clear if it is necessary), he makes three strands of his hair grow and transform into stars. Each of them can transform into giants, said to be most powerful of all giants:

  • Jade Armor: Nefristo Hoplimas: It has a humaoid form, it's strong enough to overpower Aldebaran and durable enough to whistand attacks of the Aldebaran and Shura.
    • Dunamis Pelekus: It can concentrate a big quantity of dunamis in his punches and use it to attack while generating shockwaves.
  • Beast of Amber: Electron Teru: It appears in the form of lion. It's able to control fire, shooting it like fireballs and controlling it's trajectory.
    • Dunamis Odous: gathers huge amount of Dunamis in it's mouth and fires it as a powerful fireball.
  • Pearl Dragon: Magarites Dracon: Giant in the form of the dragon, as such it can use magical attacks and is very resistant to cosmo based techniques (especially ice). It can also control water forming it into needles and water balls. It's imprevious to pain.
    • Dunamis Pneuma: focuses huge amount of Dunamis in the mouth and fires it as a powerful stream of water.

Cronus is also able to supply giants with his own Dunamis drastically increasing their stats.

- Complete Form: after destroying Psammos Adamas and absorbing it's essence as well as fusing with Megas Drepanon, Cronus is able to greatly increase his power. He gains two additional arms (six in total), each one of these arms is covered in blue flames (which represents time itself) and they are slowly fading away, destruction of all flames is equivalent to destruction of the time. He also gains two additional faces. This form focuses more on pure combat power. His fighting style is based on controlled immense violence associated with a specific computing capacity and his understanding of the spatial dimensions is well above human - which allows him to instantly shift his position. Power of his previous techniques is also increased.

Ay man, with all due respect and no offense, I really have no obligation to even read or take this part remotely seriously.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cronus_(Saint_Seiya)#Complete_Form

https://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/1203-cronus-saint-seiya

Literally copy pasted and plagiarized word for word from Vs Battles Wiki and the OBD, fanmade sites ran by random fans who have no involvement with Saint Seiya. This is no real citation. Kindly, may I please see the scans for these abilities.

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VertigoStrike

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@gelato_exotic: You still don't believe it ok here are some more you downplaying dingus:

Literally we see Gemini Cain shakes the universe with his Galaxian Explosion

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Literally Aries Mu creates a universe to drop meteors on a Hecatoncheires

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Here Aries Mu created a Universe, and had his power compared to a universe by a being who can create universes.

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The Gold Saints state a gold cloth could survive the shock of 2 Athena Exclamations colliding. Afterwards, Aiolia, Mu, and Milo were fine. An Exhausted and weakened Camus, Saga, and Shura (Weakened before this event) survived it and they were the ones who took the full force of the blast

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Episode G Guides:

Aiolia’s Photon Burst has multiple statements of having the power of the Big Bang. This also gets directly stated in the series at chapter 58, and the Encyclopedia source also has multiple statements on this.

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^Translation: "IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TECHNIQUE OF AIOLIA. HE TAKES TIME TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE, BUT IT HAS A POWER LIKE BIG BANG."

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^A EXPLOSÃO DE FOTONS CONSISTE EM CONVERTER SEU COSMO EM MILHÕES DE PEQUENAS CENTELHAS QUE PENETRAN EM SEU OPONENTE E UMA VEZ DENTRO EXPLODEM. PODERIA SE DIZER QUE SIMULA A ULTIMA ETAPA DA EVOLUÇÃO DASESTRELAS, O BIG BANG.

Translation: "THE PHOTO EXPLOSION CONSISTS IN CONVERTING YOUR COSMO IN MILLIONS OF SMALL SPARKS THAT PENETRAN IN YOUR OPPONENT AND ONCE IN EXPLODE. COULD SAY THAT SIMULATES THE LAST STAGE OF EVOLUTION OF THE STARS, THE BIG BANG."

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^Translation:" IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TECHNIQUE OF AIOLIA. HE TAKES TIME TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE, BUT HAS A POWER LIKE A BIG BANG."

Aiolia’s Photon Burst is compared to Saga’s Galaxian Explosion:

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So even if you don't want to believe they are universal based on panels/statemtents THE GUIDES DO STATE THAT THEY HAVE UNIVERSAL POWER AND CAN DESTROY IT VIA THEIR COSMOS.

The original classic manga, in which a stronger incarnation of the Aries Saint (Mu) in a later time period needs to take party in an Athena Exclamation to perform a Big Bang level attack, which coincides perfectly with the statement of the Spectre talking about Gold Saints plural.

Gold Saints being universal individually goes against the entire core lore of the Athena Exclamation, a true Big Bang level attack, needing 3 Gold Saints to burn their cosmos to their absolute limits to reach this level, and this attack being outright banned due to how powerful it is, it's something they're not close to individually.

That's the classic manga and thats fine. But in episode G and other light novels it doesnt show that he needs to go through that in order to do it.

"Aiolia isn't really a credible source for this, he mistakes it for a universe merely by seeing a starry sky. However, we're told it's an unnatural dimension created by Lapetus and not a natural universe, and assuming it's one lacks evidence."

This is such a weak argument, honestly you are just stating that because of how the panel looks like. Do you not understand that they can sense each other cosmos?Do you also understand that it doesnt have be illustrated its entire universe in order to make it so? By that logic beerus and goku aren't universal since we didn't see the whole universes but merely stars/planets regardless of what the others were stating. BIASED AF.

"She quite literally says multiple of these possibilties cannot become reality, and that one has to be chosen."

Not gonna go over this again since you are not understanding what I am trying to convey.

Appeal to popularity and there is no interpretation going on here, I've pointed out how there's no evidence nor statement nor remote indication of the Hyperdimension having billion of galaxies. Assuming it does just because a few dozen galaxies were shown is the only interpretation based on unfounded assumptions here.

Not appealing to anything but thats how concensus are made. You stating it otherwise does not make it so and wouldn't even say that if this was a CAV. The opinion of others on the subject matter as well.

Wha... the hyperdimension IS the dimension with the galaxies we've been talking about....

Ok since we are using the so call "translations" imma lay it out that it is entirely subjective but fits more to the definitions of galaxies than stars.

In order to defeat Hades and stop the Greatest Eclipse, the Saints must reach Elysium, where his true body, and the dying Athena lie. However, separating Elysium from Hell is the Hyperdimension, a universe where space and time itself are distorted, and all those who are not gods are rejected and destroyed. The only way to bypass it is to traverse it.

Let us look at other translations:

Spanish:

No Caption Provided

Raw:

No Caption Provided

The official Spanish translation has it as "Despues de atravesar Billones de Galaxias. Despues de pasar por trillones de puntos oscuros.".

Meaning: "After traversing Billions of Galaxies. After passing through trillions of dark points.

The original Japanese has it as

“nanbyaku oku to iu hikari wo koe”

“nanzen oku to iu yami wo nukete”

nanbyaku meaning hundreds, oku meaning a hundred million or 108. “Hikari wo koe” meaning “to cross” those “lights”. Or, "Crossing Tens of Billions (Hundreds of Hundred Millions) of Lights"

nanzen meaning hundreds, oku is the same as above, 108. “Yami wo nukete” meaning "coming out of “dark spaces” ", which is likely the space between the galaxies. Or, "Leaving past Tens of Billions of Dark Spaces".

So there must be galaxies in-between those stars regardless.

So, what can be concluded? Obviously the Hyperdimension is a Universe, and the Saints had to cross it to reach Elysium. What is the timeframe? A couple of minutes, give or take. Hades stated that it would take minutes to complete the Greatest Eclipse, and that was before the capturing of Athena, the attempts to destroy the wailing wall, the Sacrifice of the 12 Gold Saints, quick fights with the last few spectres, and before the long battle with the Twin Gods. When the Bronze Saints reached Hades' Palace in Elysium, the Greatest Eclipse had just concluded.

What does any of this mean for who's stronger than who? What does Cronus being his father mean anything? Is Goku weaker than Bardock :/? Is Minato>Naruto?

ROFL clearly that's not what I meant and obviously was not making any correlation between that logic. All that I am saying is that it took the combine efforts of the the olympians, zeus, Cyclopses and the Hekatonkheires, as well as the other titans to defeat him. Hades himself was never implied to able to defeat him by himself at all.

Controlling time through hax and special abilities has no credence to "4-D" dimensional existence, or whatever. Guess Fairy Tail and Bleach characters and characters like Hit are "4-D" for having abilities to control time.

LMAO no what you don't understand is that skipping time is not the same as controlling time thus not making 4D. The hax they do with time doesnt even affect the planet itself but an area try again.

Also cronus displays better time manipulation demonstrated In Vols 19 and 20 of Saint Seiya Episode G, the following feat is performed by Cronus:

No Caption Provided

"Acabei de destruir a Adamas Psammos que se encontra no labirinto de Cronos. Minha ampulheta que controla o tempo, sem ela... As horas saem de controle. O passado e o futuro, tanto daqui como da terra, se confundem... E tudo cai no mais terrivel caos..."

Translation: "I have just destroyed the Adamas Psammos which was inside the Labyrinth of Cronus. My hourglass which controls time, without it... The passing of the hours loses all control. The past and future, both of here and of Earth, are twisted... And all fall into the most terrible chaos."

No Caption Provided

"A chama de meus braºos é um indicador. Cada chama que se apaga é mais um desvio do tempo. Se núo me destruirem antes de todas elas se apagaram... Tudo aqui e na terra entrara em colapso e acabara em runas. E isso nem Zeus poderia evitar..."

Translation: "The flames of my arms are an indicator: With each flame that is extinguished, a further shift in time occours. If you do not destroy me before they are all gone... Then everything both here and on Earth will collapse and end in ruin. And that not even Zeus will be able to avoid."

No Caption Provided

"O que foi? Levanta dai. Ou vai deixar a chama do tempo se extinguir? Quando essa chama se apagar, esta terra desaparacera. Olha só... Uma jí se foi..."

Translation: "What happened? Get up already. Or are you going to let the flames of time be extinguished? When this flame fades, this earth will disappear. Oh, look... One's already gone."

So this implies that Cronus, while fighting with Aiolia, was slowly erasing all of time from existence, destroying entire universes and space-time continuums while doing so. Should all the flames of times he created to represent the destruction fade away, then that would mean that all of time has been destroyed.

This is even more evident since hades and titan cronus were able to survive the destruction of the verse:

No Caption Provided

So overall you have yet to provide any evidence that:

1. The DB team has enough power hax to defeat beings that have the 8th sense which grants them to resist a lot of things, due the fact that it strips you from most of the natural laws. You can´t die anymore, because your soul can just regenerate another physical body. Time has no affect to you, with the 8th sense, the past of your former self, isn´t your past anymore. It is like you are stripped from the timeline, since Kairos returned Aspros his time, but it was useless.

2. That DB team can defeat a being that can control the flow of time

3. Can survive the universe destruction since cronus already scales above the gold saints and we all know that the saiyans at least can not breathe in space.

4. Can counter the pragma schythe which He Can Ignore Distance, And Attack Foes Instantaneously.

No Caption Provided

5. Can withstand the Adamas Psammos which manipulates the time in the past and future.

I literally only used that section from vsbattle wiki to highlight what he can do, after all the pages are reviewed and accepted once edited so the people that inputted that information know more or less about his abilities as well as the fact that its gonna take me forever to find the scans if they are even out there.

The only thing you have done so far is to downgrade SS and not provide any evidence for team DBS. They are powerhouses more than hax.

For crying out loud the Golden Saints are able to cross space time 200 years in the past virtually instantaneously. The speed of locomotion of the saints is so incalculable, that it is broken:


No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The fact that you think DBS stands a chance despite knowing the broken hax they have, how gold saints can travel to past instantly, and how cronus scales above that is ridiculous in itself.

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#60  Edited By gelato_exotic

@vertigostrike:

Literally we see Gemini Cain shakes the universe with his Galaxian Explosion

Hope you're aware they never actually show the universe being shaken and there's no way to quantify that and shaking a universe can range from anywhere multi solar system level to multi galaxy level depending on the magnitude of the shaking. Still not universal.

Literally Aries Mu creates a universe to drop meteors on a Hecatoncheires

Here Aries Mu created a Universe, and had his power compared to a universe by a being who can create universes.

And? What do creation feats mean for AP? Even the HST has characters that created univererses lol.

None of this changes the fact that he needed to be party to an Athena Exclamation to demonstrate universal AP.

The Gold Saints state a gold cloth could survive the shock of 2 Athena Exclamations colliding. Afterwards, Aiolia, Mu, and Milo were fine. An Exhausted and weakened Camus, Saga, and Shura (Weakened before this event) survived it and they were the ones who took the full force of the blast

Full credit to: https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-2-c-gold-saints-and-7th-sense-users-saint-seiya.108448/

Plagiarism smh.

What does the durability of their Gold Cloths have anything to do with having universal AP...? Red herring.

Episode G Guides:

Aiolia’s Photon Burst has multiple statements of having the power of the Big Bang. This also gets directly stated in the series at chapter 58, and the Encyclopedia source also has multiple statements on this.

^Translation: "IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TECHNIQUE OF AIOLIA. HE TAKES TIME TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE, BUT IT HAS A POWER LIKE BIG BANG."

^A EXPLOSÃO DE FOTONS CONSISTE EM CONVERTER SEU COSMO EM MILHÕES DE PEQUENAS CENTELHAS QUE PENETRAN EM SEU OPONENTE E UMA VEZ DENTRO EXPLODEM. PODERIA SE DIZER QUE SIMULA A ULTIMA ETAPA DA EVOLUÇÃO DASESTRELAS, O BIG BANG.

Translation: "THE PHOTO EXPLOSION CONSISTS IN CONVERTING YOUR COSMO IN MILLIONS OF SMALL SPARKS THAT PENETRAN IN YOUR OPPONENT AND ONCE IN EXPLODE. COULD SAY THAT SIMULATES THE LAST STAGE OF EVOLUTION OF THE STARS, THE BIG BANG."

^Translation:" IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL TECHNIQUE OF AIOLIA. HE TAKES TIME TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE, BUT HAS A POWER LIKE A BIG BANG."

Aiolia’s Photon Burst is compared to Saga’s Galaxian Explosion:

So even if you don't want to believe they are universal based on panels/statemtents THE GUIDES DO STATE THAT THEY HAVE UNIVERSAL POWER AND CAN DESTROY IT VIA THEIR COSMOS.

And again, you're taking these Big Bang statements out of context.

No Caption Provided

ALL Cosmos attacks are described as making mini universes and making figurative Big Bangs explode, and that's the comparison being made, a power like the big bang using the energy of the big bang (which is what the Cosmos is) =/= universe level.

In your own scans galaxian explosion is verbatim stated to be galaxy level..

The only attack stated to actually rival or be comparable to the big bang in power is the Athena Exclamation, and the entire lore is that the Gold Saints need to do a 3 way and burn their cosmos to the max together to reach this level.

That's the classic manga and thats fine. But in episode G and other light novels it doesnt show that he needs to go through that in order to do it.

It most definitely does.

In every SS media it's the lore itself that Gold Saints individually are not universal.

No Caption Provided

This is such a weak argument, honestly you are just stating that because of how the panel looks like. Do you not understand that they can sense each other cosmos?Do you also understand that it doesnt have be illustrated its entire universe in order to make it so? By that logic beerus and goku aren't universal since we didn't see the whole universes but merely stars/planets regardless of what the others were stating. BIASED AF.

What? That's a complete false equivalence, Elder Kai is someone who can actually see throughout the entire universe and would know this, and their attacks are shown engulfing the universe to the Kaioshin Realm, which we know is outside the universe.

I never said a universe needs to be illustrated, what I said is that Aiolia says this after merely seeing a starry background, which is hardly proving much, when it's stated be an artificial dimension created by Lapetus.

And sadly, still doesn't contradict the Athena Exclamation.

Not gonna go over this again since you are not understanding what I am trying to convey.

The sentiment is shared.

Ok since we are using the so call "translations" imma lay it out that it is entirely subjective but fits more to the definitions of galaxies than stars.

What "translations"? I'm going purely off of what the original japanese manga and nothing else.

And no, it doesn't, and it's "entirely subjective" aka headcanon. There's no evidence to assume it's galaxies and there's no reason to do so.

In order to defeat Hades and stop the Greatest Eclipse, the Saints must reach Elysium, where his true body, and the dying Athena lie. However, separating Elysium from Hell is the Hyperdimension, a universe where space and time itself are distorted, and all those who are not gods are rejected and destroyed. The only way to bypass it is to traverse it.

Let us look at other translations:

Spanish:

Raw:

The official Spanish translation has it as "Despues de atravesar Billones de Galaxias. Despues de pasar por trillones de puntos oscuros.".

Meaning: "After traversing Billions of Galaxies. After passing through trillions of dark points.

The original Japanese has it as

“nanbyaku oku to iu hikari wo koe”

“nanzen oku to iu yami wo nukete”

nanbyaku meaning hundreds, oku meaning a hundred million or 108. “Hikari wo koe” meaning “to cross” those “lights”. Or, "Crossing Tens of Billions (Hundreds of Hundred Millions) of Lights"

nanzen meaning hundreds, oku is the same as above, 108. “Yami wo nukete” meaning "coming out of “dark spaces” ", which is likely the space between the galaxies. Or, "Leaving past Tens of Billions of Dark Spaces".

So there must be galaxies in-between those stars regardless.

So, what can be concluded? Obviously the Hyperdimension is a Universe, and the Saints had to cross it to reach Elysium. What is the timeframe? A couple of minutes, give or take. Hades stated that it would take minutes to complete the Greatest Eclipse, and that was before the capturing of Athena, the attempts to destroy the wailing wall, the Sacrifice of the 12 Gold Saints, quick fights with the last few spectres, and before the long battle with the Twin Gods. When the Bronze Saints reached Hades' Palace in Elysium, the Greatest Eclipse had just concluded.

Full credits to: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/Saint_Seiya:_Speed_Feats_Summarized#

Damn, another entirely plagiarized post. Anyways, the fanmade unofficial non canon spanish is useless, and the japanese scans prove my point about no mention of billions of galaxies, so, alright thanks I guess.

ROFL clearly that's not what I meant and obviously was not making any correlation between that logic. All that I am saying is that it took the combine efforts of the the olympians, zeus, Cyclopses and the Hekatonkheires, as well as the other titans to defeat him. Hades himself was never implied to able to defeat him by himself at all.

No it didn't lol it didn't take all that for Cronus alone. This doesn't serve to prove Cronus individually>Hades, at all.

LMAO no what you don't understand is that skipping time is not the same as controlling time thus not making 4D. The hax they do with time doesnt even affect the planet itself but an area try again.

The same goes for Cronus with his time hax only affecting Earth and a Castle so this is rich.

Also cronus displays better time manipulation demonstrated In Vols 19 and 20 of Saint Seiya Episode G, the following feat is performed by Cronus:

"Acabei de destruir a Adamas Psammos que se encontra no labirinto de Cronos. Minha ampulheta que controla o tempo, sem ela... As horas saem de controle. O passado e o futuro, tanto daqui como da terra, se confundem... E tudo cai no mais terrivel caos..."

Translation: "I have just destroyed the Adamas Psammos which was inside the Labyrinth of Cronus. My hourglass which controls time, without it... The passing of the hours loses all control. The past and future, both of here and of Earth, are twisted... And all fall into the most terrible chaos."

"A chama de meus braºos é um indicador. Cada chama que se apaga é mais um desvio do tempo. Se núo me destruirem antes de todas elas se apagaram... Tudo aqui e na terra entrara em colapso e acabara em runas. E isso nem Zeus poderia evitar..."

Translation: "The flames of my arms are an indicator: With each flame that is extinguished, a further shift in time occours. If you do not destroy me before they are all gone... Then everything both here and on Earth will collapse and end in ruin. And that not even Zeus will be able to avoid."

"O que foi? Levanta dai. Ou vai deixar a chama do tempo se extinguir? Quando essa chama se apagar, esta terra desaparacera. Olha só... Uma jí se foi..."

Translation: "What happened? Get up already. Or are you going to let the flames of time be extinguished? When this flame fades, this earth will disappear. Oh, look... One's already gone."

Full Credit goes to: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cronus_(Saint_Seiya)#Complete_Form

All you've done is..... provide evidence for what I said...? Each of your scans outright references that only Earth and Tartarus (here) were being affected.

So this implies that Cronus, while fighting with Aiolia, was slowly erasing all of time from existence, destroying entire universes and space-time continuums while doing so. Should all the flames of times he created to represent the destruction fade away, then that would mean that all of time has been destroyed.

Stated nowhere whatsoever, not a single mention of "all of time" or "universes space-time continuums", while it's verbatim stated to be Earth and Tartarus.

This is even more evident since hades and titan cronus were able to survive the destruction of the verse:

.....?

Literally everything but the Castle of Titans was intact, this is like, literally the story. Earth was intact, so was everything in the universe they were in, dunno where the hell you got this from.

1. The DB team has enough power hax to defeat beings that have the 8th sense which grants them to resist a lot of things, due the fact that it strips you from most of the natural laws. You can´t die anymore, because your soul can just regenerate another physical body. Time has no affect to you, with the 8th sense, the past of your former self, isn´t your past anymore. It is like you are stripped from the timeline, since Kairos returned Aspros his time, but it was useless.

Besides the revival/regeneration none of this ever stated, post scans for this because this is complete headcanon.

Also, cute how you copy pasted this entire thing from Caocao. Can you seriously not come up with a single argument yourself? Yeesh.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/arceus-vs-cronus-saint-seiya-2126373/?page=3#js-message-24266074

2. That DB team can defeat a being that can control the flow of time

Which you have yet to prove he can do any competent scale. From what you've shown, he needs to cause a slow chain reaction through destroying an hourglass which only affects the time epochs of localized areas like Earth and the Castle of Titans, and doesn't even affect the beings in the vicinity evident by Cronus and Aiolia being unaffected.

3. Can survive the universe destruction since cronus already scales above the gold saints and we all know that the saiyans at least can not breathe in space.

Too bad none of them have shown the capability to cause universe destruction.

4. Can counter the pragma schythe which He Can Ignore Distance, And Attack Foes Instantaneously.

Which he still needs to take the action for and get off first. This is equivalent of an assertion as asinine as something like Goku is un-taggable due to instant transmission.

5. Can withstand the Adamas Psammos which manipulates the time in the past and future.

The Adammos Pssamos doesn't attack anyone or time hax them. You've literally posted the scans detailing what it does, did you read them?

I literally only used that section from vsbattle wiki to highlight what he can do, after all the pages are reviewed and accepted once edited so the people that inputted that information know more or less about his abilities as well as the fact that its gonna take me forever to find the scans if they are even out there.

It's a fanmade wiki from random fans and holds no relevance as a citation here.

And you wanna play the appealing to Vs Wiki game and say they apparently know about this stuff?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/saint-seiya-2-c-upgrades-and-2-a-additions.113849/

Here's a Vs Wiki thread recently where your idea of Multiversal Cronus was debunked and stated to be invalid and the Wiki pages merely haven't been updated to accommodate it, and this is from the very people you've been copy pasting such as Matthew Schroder.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
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No Caption Provided

So yeah, this very Wiki you've been continually copy pasting word for word and treating as gopsel considers the assertions you're making about Cronus to be bullshit.

The only thing you have done so far is to downgrade SS and not provide any evidence for team DBS. They are powerhouses more than hax.

What'd I downgrade?

For crying out loud the Golden Saints are able to cross space time 200 years in the past virtually instantaneously. The speed of locomotion of the saints is so incalculable, that it is broken: 

Nowhere does it say or indicate they travelled to the past, not sure where you got this from.

"Sólo hemoscaído enuna peque Ha aberturadel espacio tiempo"

"We've fallen into a small hole in space-time"

Not a single mention of "200 years" or doing it through speed, says they fell through a hole in space-time in your own scan.

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#61  Edited By VertigoStrike

@gelato_exotic: My fucking god you are so damn ridiculous the only counter you have is that BuT ItS OuT Of CoNTEXt crap. I literally presented you the feats/statements about the universe being destroyed and you brush them off like they don't count for the SIMPLE FACT THAT YOU DONT LIKE IT.

I Even presented the guides themselves state that the attacks are universal but still want to make it seem like they are out of context when they are not.

I am fucking done with you. All you do downgrade saint seiya and havent presented anything from the DBS side to show that they win. Literally at this point you are only using your bias towards dragon ball to make up any plausible scenario in which they win.

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#62  Edited By gelato_exotic

@vertigostrike said:

@gelato_exotic: My fucking god you are so damn ridiculous the only counter you have is that BuT ItS OuT Of CoNTEXt crap. I literally presented you the feats/statements about the universe being destroyed and you brush them off like they don't count for the SIMPLE FACT THAT YOU DONT LIKE IT.

I Even presented the guides themselves state that the attacks are universal but still want to make it seem like they are out of context when they are not.

I am fucking done with you. All you do downgrade saint seiya and havent presented anything from the DBS side to show that they win. Literally at this point you are only using your bias towards dragon ball to make up any plausible scenario in which they win.

@owie@emperorthanos-@god_spawn Unprovoked and pretty unwarranted cussing hostility and insulting.

If you have no actual refute, just say that and go, or just go. No need to break etiquette over something so petty.

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I go for team ss. Hades as the best showing , he managed to blitz 5 God saint and armored Athena , only to failed against the power love.......cheesy.

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@gelato_exotic: No offense but he didnt even insult you. Hes just venting but never called you names or anything. Well that's if you count being ridiculous enough to be insulting if anything.

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@vertigostrike said:

@gelato_exotic: My fucking god you are so damn ridiculous the only counter you have is that BuT ItS OuT Of CoNTEXt crap. I literally presented you the feats/statements about the universe being destroyed and you brush them off like they don't count for the SIMPLE FACT THAT YOU DONT LIKE IT.

I Even presented the guides themselves state that the attacks are universal but still want to make it seem like they are out of context when they are not.

I am fucking done with you. All you do downgrade saint seiya and havent presented anything from the DBS side to show that they win. Literally at this point you are only using your bias towards dragon ball to make up any plausible scenario in which they win.

@owie@emperorthanos-@god_spawn Unprovoked and pretty unwarranted hostility and insulting.

If you have no actual refute, just say that and go, or just go. No need to break etiquette over something so petty.

I'd take this as your concession. Also im not even cursing at you mind you. But the moment I do is enough to want to call the mods then fine get sensitive to me then.

THE GUIDES>your opinion. Just because I got the guides which happens to be from vsbattlewiki doesnt make them less valid nor invalidates the statements that the gold saints are universal. In no circumstance did you presented feats for TEAM DBS and only downgraded SS.

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#67  Edited By gelato_exotic
@vertigostrike said:
@gelato_exotic said:
@vertigostrike said:

@gelato_exotic: My fucking god you are so damn ridiculous the only counter you have is that BuT ItS OuT Of CoNTEXt crap. I literally presented you the feats/statements about the universe being destroyed and you brush them off like they don't count for the SIMPLE FACT THAT YOU DONT LIKE IT.

I Even presented the guides themselves state that the attacks are universal but still want to make it seem like they are out of context when they are not.

I am fucking done with you. All you do downgrade saint seiya and havent presented anything from the DBS side to show that they win. Literally at this point you are only using your bias towards dragon ball to make up any plausible scenario in which they win.

@owie@emperorthanos-@god_spawn Unprovoked and pretty unwarranted hostility and insulting.

If you have no actual refute, just say that and go, or just go. No need to break etiquette over something so petty.

I'd take this as your concession. Also im not even cursing at you mind you. But the moment I do is enough to want to call the mods then fine get sensitive to me then.

THE GUIDES>your opinion. Just because I got the guides which happens to be from vsbattlewiki doesnt make them less valid nor invalidates the statements that the gold saints are universal. In no circumstance did you presented feats for TEAM DBS and only downgraded SS.

Not sure if you're in any place to talk about concessions after you, as Axiompulse said, started venting, and you refrained from providing any more arguments or refuting the above.

And I provided manga scans that coincide and provide context to the statements in these guides you're misconstruing, and NEVER said they're invalid due to Vs Wiki. You're free to refute those anytime instead of ad nauseaming.

I'm confused as to what I downgraded, and no feats were ever requested for team DBS in the first place and that wasn't the premise of this argument at all, and your whole position was saying that nothing in DBS matches Cronus's supposed feat, no? You made claims about SS and said that it's enough for them to win, and naturally I responded accordingly.

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@gelato_exotic: To be fair anyone here will get ruffled up when in discord.

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LMFAO.

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#72  Edited By VertigoStrike

@kemono_dono said:

Imagine using alts to back yourself up.

Imagine first telling me that i have a crush on animefreak1 then ironically follows me with now with the alt excuse. Get lost bozo lol.

The only real alt I have is shadowofvertigo and i dont even use that one ye twat.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/shadowofvertigo/

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@vertigostrike said:
@gelato_exotic said:
@vertigostrike said:

@gelato_exotic: My fucking god you are so damn ridiculous the only counter you have is that BuT ItS OuT Of CoNTEXt crap. I literally presented you the feats/statements about the universe being destroyed and you brush them off like they don't count for the SIMPLE FACT THAT YOU DONT LIKE IT.

I Even presented the guides themselves state that the attacks are universal but still want to make it seem like they are out of context when they are not.

I am fucking done with you. All you do downgrade saint seiya and havent presented anything from the DBS side to show that they win. Literally at this point you are only using your bias towards dragon ball to make up any plausible scenario in which they win.

@owie@emperorthanos-@god_spawn Unprovoked and pretty unwarranted hostility and insulting.

If you have no actual refute, just say that and go, or just go. No need to break etiquette over something so petty.

I'd take this as your concession. Also im not even cursing at you mind you. But the moment I do is enough to want to call the mods then fine get sensitive to me then.

THE GUIDES>your opinion. Just because I got the guides which happens to be from vsbattlewiki doesnt make them less valid nor invalidates the statements that the gold saints are universal. In no circumstance did you presented feats for TEAM DBS and only downgraded SS.

Not sure if you're in any place to talk about concessions after you, as Axiompulse said, started venting, and you refrained from providing any more arguments or refuting the above.

And I provided manga scans that coincide and provide context to the statements in these guides you're misconstruing, and NEVER said they're invalid due to Vs Wiki. You're free to refute those anytime instead of ad nauseaming.

I'm confused as to what I downgraded, and no feats were ever requested for team DBS in the first place and that wasn't the premise of this argument at all, and your whole position was saying that nothing in DBS matches Cronus's supposed feat, no? You made claims about SS and said that it's enough for them to win, and naturally I responded accordingly.

Not sure if you're in any place to talk about concessions after you, as Axiompulse said, started venting, and you refrained from providing any more arguments or refuting the above.

Good to know, still shows how much of a sore loser you are when you tag the mods.

And I provided manga scans that coincide and provide context to the statements in these guides you're misconstruing, and NEVER said they're invalid due to Vs Wiki. You're free to refute those anytime instead of ad nauseaming.

You literally said that the feats/guides were invalid since the people are just fandoms. So, no, you literally are implying they are invalid simply being from there. Which ironically then tried to use that same site with its users to state that it was debunk when it wasnt. Hypocrisy at its best.

I'm confused as to what I downgraded, and no feats were ever requested for team DBS in the first place and that wasn't the premise of this argument at all, and your whole position was saying that nothing in DBS matches Cronus's supposed feat, no? You made claims about SS and said that it's enough for them to win, and naturally I responded accordingly.

ROLF NO FEATS REQUESTED FOR DBS? I literally asked for you to show that. I'm sorry I thought this was a DBS VS Saint Seiya, not a why SS characters are not universal and other garbage which it seems like you only believe it only to yourself.

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VertigoStrike

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@vertigostrike:

I didn't even direct that to anyone...But guess who responded. lmfao

Cause you are obviously making it about me ye dingus. You have the audacity to tag me on the other thread but not this one apaprently.

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#76  Edited By VertigoStrike

Guess @kemono_dono has a crush on me and what not LMAO. Now he following me on every thread. LAAAAAMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

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gelato_exotic

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#77  Edited By gelato_exotic

@vertigostrike:

Good to know, still shows how much of a sore loser you are when you tag the mods.

>Immediately starts venting and raging with no rebuttals

>Calling someone else a sore loser for trying to make sure the rules are followed

LMFAO. Whatever you need to keep that ego intact, I guess.

You literally said that the feats/guides were invalid since the people are just fandoms. So, no, you literally are implying they are invalid simply being from there. Which ironically then tried to use that same site with its users to state that it was debunk when it wasnt. Hypocrisy at its best.

Resorting to strawmans now? Go ahead, quote it or something or take a screenshot, show me where I said that anywhere in this thread. All I did was point the blatant plagiarism on your end, and credited the people you stole from word for word, since obviously they deserve credit for their work.

The only time I dismissed Wiki stuff is when you quoted their own write ups with no citations to the source material. Not once did I say the actual feats and guides from the source material are invalid.

ROLF NO FEATS REQUESTED FOR DBS? I literally asked for you to show that. I'm sorry I thought this was a DBS VS Saint Seiya, not a why SS characters are not universal and other garbage which it seems like you only believe it only to yourself.

You asked me to show how they can counter abilities or feats that you asserted SS has first, but since those SS characters aren't capable of that in the first place at all, accordingly that's the first issue that would be tackled, and naturally I did so.

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MaiitoGuy8

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#78  Edited By MaiitoGuy8

LMFAO. Gelato always thinking she is right. Thats honestly the major turn on in these SS vs DB fights!!

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@vertigostrike: @gelato_exotic: Would it be cool with you guys to make a general discussion on whether people believe gold saints are universal or not? As of now I am completely confused and would like to get the input from others.

Better yet why don't you @gelato_exotic make a general discussion about it since I never seen someone scale the gold saints to below universal. I'm sure even @joviolma would be delighted to partake in it.

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So damn hilarious

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VertigoStrike

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LMFAO. Gelato always thinking she is right. Thats honestly the major turn on in these SS vs DB fights!!

FACTS, gelato is so naive and self-righteous. BIASED AF TOWARDS DB.

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VertigoStrike

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@axiompulse: Yeah sure go for it, I am interested to see what others have to say about it.

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gelato_exotic

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LMFAO. Gelato always thinking she is right. Thats honestly the major turn on in these SS vs DB fights!!

I mean you're free to try and prove me wrong if you disagree. Till then DB team still stomps.

@vertigostrike: @gelato_exotic: Would it be cool with you guys to make a general discussion on whether people believe gold saints are universal or not? As of now I am completely confused and would like to get the input from others.

Better yet why don't you @gelato_exotic make a general discussion about it since I never seen someone scale the gold saints to below universal. I'm sure even @joviolma would be delighted to partake in it.

If you're having confusion about something, go for it I guess.

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VertigoStrike

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@vertigostrike:

Good to know, still shows how much of a sore loser you are when you tag the mods.

>Immediately starts venting and raging with no rebuttals

>Calling someone else a sore loser for trying to make sure the rules are followed

LMFAO. Whatever you need to keep that ego intact, I guess.

You literally said that the feats/guides were invalid since the people are just fandoms. So, no, you literally are implying they are invalid simply being from there. Which ironically then tried to use that same site with its users to state that it was debunk when it wasnt. Hypocrisy at its best.

Resorting to strawmans now? Go ahead, quote it or something or take a screenshot, show me where I said that anywhere in this thread. All I did was point the blatant plagiarism on your end, and credited the people you stole from word for word, since obviously they deserve credit for their work.

The only time I dismissed Wiki stuff is when you quoted their own write ups with no citations to the source material. Not once did I say the actual feats and guides from the source material are invalid.

ROLF NO FEATS REQUESTED FOR DBS? I literally asked for you to show that. I'm sorry I thought this was a DBS VS Saint Seiya, not a why SS characters are not universal and other garbage which it seems like you only believe it only to yourself.

You asked me to show how they can counter abilities or feats that you asserted SS has first, but since those SS characters aren't capable of that in the first place at all, accordingly that's the first issue that would be tackled, and naturally I did so.

>Immediately starts venting and raging with no rebuttals

>Calling someone else a sore loser for trying to make sure the rules are followed

LMFAO. Whatever you need to keep that ego intact, I guess.

ROFL, So now venting is against the rules? Talk about being a diva, anyone will vent when you sprout nonsense like that. Calling in the mods is for sore losers and anyone can agree with that.

Resorting to strawmans now? Go ahead, quote it or something or take a screenshot, show me where I said that anywhere in this thread. All I did was point the blatant plagiarism on your end, and credited the people you stole from word for word, since obviously they deserve credit for their work.

The only time I dismissed Wiki stuff is when you quoted their own write ups with no citations to the source material. Not once did I say the actual feats and guides from the source material are invalid.

Not a strawman, that's exactly what happened. Who cares where I got the info from, the info is still valid no one here cares about it.

You may have not said that the sources are invalid but you implied it since you said that it was out of context and other bs despite being stated directly.

You asked me to show how they can counter abilities or feats that you asserted SS has first, but since those SS characters aren't capable of that in the first place at all, accordingly that's the first issue that would be tackled, and naturally I did so.

The only thing you did naturally was to just downgrade the crap out of SS and never presented the DBS side and why they would win.

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AxiomPulse

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@maiitoguy8 said:

LMFAO. Gelato always thinking she is right. Thats honestly the major turn on in these SS vs DB fights!!

I mean you're free to try and prove me wrong if you disagree. Till then DB team still stomps.

@axiompulse said:

@vertigostrike: @gelato_exotic: Would it be cool with you guys to make a general discussion on whether people believe gold saints are universal or not? As of now I am completely confused and would like to get the input from others.

Better yet why don't you @gelato_exotic make a general discussion about it since I never seen someone scale the gold saints to below universal. I'm sure even @joviolma would be delighted to partake in it.

If you're having confusion about something, go for it I guess.

Alright, imma tag you guys in the general discussion tomorrow among other people. I really want to know if SS Gold saints are universal or not since you guys really got me(i'm sure other people as well) confused as to what they are fully capable now.

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Why do Dragon Ball and Saints Seiya threads always got to end up like this? No wonder everything involving DB is getting banned now

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AxiomPulse

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Why do Dragon Ball and Saints Seiya threads always got to end up like this? No wonder everything involving DB is getting banned now

oof this is nothing my man, check out the naruto threads. Those turn into pure cancer especially when some naruto fans like to scale kaguya/momoshiki from universal to multiversal.

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VertigoStrike

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#89  Edited By VertigoStrike

@kemono_dono said:

@vertigostrike:

Cause you are obviously making it about me ye dingus.

Proof I was talking about you?

You have the audacity to tag me on the other thread but not this one apaprently.

Imagine being so pathetic to bring up a completely Irrelevant thing

Guess @kemono_dono has a crush on me and what not LMAO.

Press X to Doubt

Now he following me on every thread. LAAAAAMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

bruh, how can you be this cringe. lol

LMFAO you obviously made it about me. It was evident ever since you mentioned me on the other thread. The only difference here is that you didn't had the audacity to tag me directly here ROFL.

Go back and defend your boyfriend animefreak1. I'm sure hes feeling lonely without your precense lol.

Get out of here kid you got owned.

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gelato_exotic

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@vertigostrike: I never implied anything whatsoever at all I did was call out randomly written bios on non-canon fanmade Wikis with no connection to the source material or citation and reference to it a useless source and calling it valid has no justification.

Is it really that hard to post the scans for these supposed abilities if you're so confident they are what these fanmade wikis claim?

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VertigoStrike

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Anyway, ss team wins but only due to hax/speed/immortality. Their ap isn't very clear now. Db remains only has ap as an advantage.

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@vertigostrike: the guy literally uses the pettiest/most bs arguments to downplay everything. Iirc he doesn't even know how acausality/nonexistence physiology work.

The only good debunk I've seen from him is his debunk of alovenus. The rest reek of exgrrme incredulity/ignorance/bias, when the verse he reps (shinza bansho) is the epitome of the arguments he uses to downplay other verses. This guy is never happy/satisfied with anything. It's best to ignore him.

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VertigoStrike

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ok. too much cringe in one post, I'm Leaving.

You leaving cause people called you out. But yes do flee back to your masters away from here.

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VertigoStrike

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@vertigostrike said:
@kemono_dono said:

ok. too much cringe in one post, I'm Leaving.

You leaving cause people called you out. But yes do flee back to your masters away from here.

whatever helps you sleep at night buddy

also, nice to see Ruksos being a salty ass like always

Only one salty one here is you, its true. You never even debate. I don't even know why you here. Stay salty:

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The entire thread here;

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