This is quite too much for the DB side to handle. At least without Cronus they have hopes of doing something... Oh, wait. The OP also says that every saint that had a god cloth will be part of the fight so... There is a lot of HAX from team 1 that will be spammed.
This is quite too much for the DB side to handle. At least without Cronus they have hopes of doing something... Oh, wait. The OP also says that every saint that had a god cloth will be part of the fight so... There is a lot of HAX from team 2 that will be spammed.
@infinitedrimuru: I love how I said team 2 instead of team 1. I normally see the DB characters being listed first and that got me distracted from what I was writing xD
The idea of the gods having this comes from some random statement in Saint Seiya Gigantomachia
Which actually is a non canon fanfic written by some random, not written by Kurumada, and he regards it as an alternate fan interpretation NOT part of his own canon story.
None of the SS Gods have such an ability and this is pretty obvious considering how it's never showcased or even alluded to in the actual manga, which makes sense since it comes from a fanmade novel.
I heard he has multiversal ap as well.
You heard wrong. Not a single character in the entirety of SS has shown a multiversal feat or been given a statement for it.
@yungdesafiadora: hmm, ok then. I believe Chronos of all people should be at the very least multiversal, because he should be the one who created the multiverses that are mentioned in this particular scan
@infinitedrimuru: It's never outright stated anywhere Chronos created the universe, and it's actually heavily implied otherwise:
What's stated is that the beginning of Earth (in other words, the universe already existed), only Gaia and not the other Primordials (which includes Chronos, so the notion of him creating anything immediately goes out the window).
In canon, it's merely stated that the Big Bang created the universe:
Which no god is ever remotely stated or implied to have created.
And actually, in the SS Hypermyth, it's further made clear that the Big Bang happened naturally from some supernatural divine will, and none of the gods had any sort of involvement:
So yeah, absolutely no multiversal feats in SS in any shape or form, and SSG Goku and above stomp the verse quite easily.
@infinitedrimuru: They're what they are, multiverses, and yes it's canon. But no one scales to them, so it doesn't really matter. Even verses like Fairy Tail have an established multiverse, not meaning much.
Dragon Ball vs Saint seiya threads should be banned since it's a clear spite in favour of Dragon Ball
Honestly this is so true. But sadly all the trolls and braindead wankers would rather persist and continually embarrass themselves rather than accepting reality.
@infinitedrimuru: They're what they are, multiverses, and yes it's canon. But no one scales to them, so it doesn't really matter. Even verses like Fairy Tail have an established multiverse, not meaning much.
bruh using FT multiversal are we you are very dumb smh at FT MULTIVERSAL
I LITERALLY DEBUNKED THEM TO BE UNIVERSAL NOW WTF
HERES SOMEONE WHO SOLOES THE ENTIRETY OF DBS
SAKUYA IZAYOI
-stop time indefinitely
-omnipresent knifes
-being a vampire she is more capable than a saiyan
-shown to be able to stop time,reverse time,fast forward time,reset time to zero on an opponent,she also has spacial powers and space domination because she made crimson scarlet mansion
-causally acausal from resisting the gods reseting her birth
also touhou project has a better cosmology than dbs
Gallery
there are infinite world as implied by sanae and reimu mentioned that theres a barrier protecting this world which means thats its a macroverse
so its an infinite macroverse
all character in touhou are low multiversal to multiversal by themselve because each of them can kill gods that create said infinite world
@tagsorwhatever: Huh? Where the fuck do you see Touhou mentioned ANYWHERE in the OP? Only salty individual is yourself deflecting to something completely unrelated. I never said FT is Multiversal, what I said is that like Fairy Tail, Saint Seiya has a multiverse despite having no multiversal characters, reading comprehension 101 genius.
DB team still stomps your post is utterly irrelevant to this topic.
@tagsorwhatever: Huh? Where the fuck do you see Touhou mentioned ANYWHERE in the OP? Only salty individual is yourself deflecting to something completely unrelated. I never said FT is Multiversal, what I said is that like Fairy Tail, Saint Seiya has a multiverse despite having no multiversal characters, reading comprehension 101 genius.
DB team still stomps your post is utterly irrelevant to this topic.
>i only introduced Touhou here as a joke dont be insulting me for that
@infinitedrimuru: They're what they are, multiverses, and yes it's canon. But no one scales to them, so it doesn't really matter. Even verses like Fairy Tail have an established multiverse, not meaning much.
smh at fairy tail has an established multiverse all it has is a universal with dimensions in them
>im just believing it might now but yeah
im not even gonna set foot in this thread anymore insulting others for making a joke(1)literally insult others for misconception(2) and insult others for just saying one character might beat the other(3)
@tagsorwhatever: Parallel worlds, universes, and futures are literally referenced in canon, but that's besides the point, fact still is having a multiversal cosmology=/=multiversal power, and trying to somehow reason SS characters are multiversal because there is a multiverse in the verse is a false equivalence.
Yeah, that has been debated for several times. Team Seiya in a unholy stomp, unless someone here can bypass low-godly regen, let alone acausality type 4, which has every god and everyone who gained the blood of gods. Except from Hakai no one from the team here has any abilities or feats that can attack the soul of someone. Adding all Saints makes it even more hard, since you including people like Regulus, Aspros and Co. Regulus is omnipresent, with that he is literally the fastest one, while Aspros has shown the regeneration level of 8th sense users is even better since it allowed to return even after body and soul destruction. He even returned from time erasure. Those are just a few examples, there are a lot more. With that alone there is no way that anyone here in the time, except Hakai users might have a chance against low-godly regen people. Against gods it is complete useless, since neither Goku, nor the others has shown to affect type 4 acausality. In fact, no one in DBS has ever replicated such a feat.
Hakai is the only chance to stop low-godly regen. I know there exist some statements in DBZ, but when Buu was destroyed, there is no evidence that his soul was destroyed too, since Goku asked King Yemma that he reincarnate Buu as a human. Everything about that is headcanon.
Hakai might help against low-godly regen, but with that only Goku might be an opponent, technically Moro too. Against Acausality everyone here becomes useless. (Not forgetting the tons of hax where is no answer against it, like Shijima´sBuddha´s four hands, Regulus Zodiac Clamation, Hades instand dead, Cygnus beyond AZ ice abilities, Ikki´s hellfire, etc. )That is just too much.
Also Team DB is getting blitzed har here, since none of them has ever shown to cross more then 1 or 2 galaxies within a timeframe from a few minutes, while the travel speel in the hyperdimension alone can be lowballed to 10+ dimensions, or highballed to billions of galaxies. Whis and the angels might be the only one who can replicate at least comparable speed on his own, when he uses his scepter. No one in DB (Not even Beerus) scales to that and multiplers doesn´t multiply every stat, that was only based on power from the last thing i read. There is a increasing in speed too, but not that way how people doing math here. All in one SS has better speed feats then DBS. Talking about DBH idk.
Also before that start again with universal+ SS. You don´t need even universal level to beat the people in this battle, since durability isn´t related to hax, nor is acausality type 4 even relevant to a universal bust. Goku might be the only one who can fight against the low-godly regen, maybe Moro depended on his hax. Unfortunately Goku is easy to kill with natural disease/laws/etc. Just suck him up in another dimension or the hyperdimension and he dies.
@vertigostrike: Chronus isn't even here tho, and is featless, that's a different one. What feats does Titan Cronus here have?
Literally titan cronus controls time and is above all gold saints/Hades.
Then there's the fact that he was destroying the entire Saint Seiya multiverse during his fight with Aiolia in Episode G. It showed that with nothing but a thought, while focusing most of his energy and attention in a battle with Leo Aiolia, he was capable of erasing all of Past, Present, and Future across all of existence in minutes.
No one in DB would be able to survive that much less be able to replicate it.
Literally titan cronus controls time and is above all gold saints/Hades.
Not sure about that he was jobbing to Saga to the point he had to hide behind Athena's vicinities from a Galaxian Explosion and in the end couldn't even defeat Aiolia, and ended up begging Hades to take his Dunamis and carry something on for him and Hades was unfazed by him.
Then there's the fact that he was destroying the entire Saint Seiya multiverse during his fight with Aiolia in Episode G. It showed that with nothing but a thought, while focusing most of his energy and attention in a battle with Leo Aiolia, he was capable of erasing all of Past, Present, and Future across all of existence in minutes.
No one in DB would be able to survive that much less be able to replicate it.
That's not really what happened this notion really just comes from disingenuous phrasing of one word in an unofficial Portugese fan translation. A multiverse wasn't even acknowledged to exist at this point in the story and wasn't until years later.
What Cronus was doing is destroying Earth and the Castle of Titans in Tartarus (where him and Aiolia were fighting) through causing time epochs to go out of control by destroying an hourglass that stabilizes it for them (which already makes this unscalable to his stats, it'd be like saying regular humans are building level for detonating dynamite).
"The divine wing (Dunamis Petit Luxe) of my scythe (Dunamis Drepanon) hunts all the time... You too will collapse and be returned to atomic dust".
Cronus actually never indicated anything remotely close to destroying "all of time" or some Multiverse. What he says is that his Drepanon is "hunting all the time" in the sense of the adverbial phrase, not as some pronoun referring to the Multiverse.After that, he specifically indicates that he will merely destroy Aiolia, and that's all.
Can look this up or translate it yourself too if you'd like to factcheck, but the phrase 全ての刻をis commonspeak for "every second" "all the time" "every moment", and to give further credence to this, the kanji 狩 here is present, which is explicitly the progressive form of the verb "hunting", and there is no direct object for it (which is what's being misconceived as the multiverse), hence the adverb.
https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/狩 Here's a japanese dictionary laying out how it works.
As for the next pages to show further context that there's nothing on a multiversal scale going on, I'll just post the Portugese since nothing else mistranslated, it wasn't even really stated and just a misinterpretation of vague wording.
As for the next pages to show further context that there's nothing on a multiversal scale going on, I'll just post the Portugese since nothing else mistranslated, it was just that one wonky statement that got worded disingenuously that led people to interpreting it in a strange way, happened to me too until I read Episode G in japanese
"The flames of my arms are an indicator: With each flame that is extinguished, a further shift in time occurs. If you do not destroy me before they are all gone... Then everything both here and on Earth will collapse and end in ruin. And that not even Zeus will be able to avoid."
As Cronus says, him destroying the hourglass was specifically going to result in the destruction of everything here where him and Aiolia were fighting (The Titans' Castle in Tartarus), and just Earth. Nothing more, nothing about the Multiverse at all whatsoever. And even then it was done through a chain reaction of destroying the hourglass and not through his own power.
"What happened? Get up already. Or are you going to let the flames of time be extinguished? When this flame fades, this earth will disappear. Oh, look... One's already gone."
That once again like iterated by Cronus above, once all the flames on his arms (which are stated to be mere indicators, and one of them snuffs out during this dialogue as per the last statement) only the Earth will be destroyed through the chain reaction of the destruction of the hourglass's affect of the time of planet Earth (altering the different epochs of the planet) and the area where he was fighting with Aiolia (the castle of the Titans).
You are wrong to believe that you won. I am the god who was born to destroy everything. I am the one who will cut lives and time, reducing everything to ashes. To all existence without exception.
Cronus mentions that's he been born to bring destruction upon everything (as he's doing with only Earth and the Castle in Tartartus right now). and specifically mentions cutting time (as he's doing again, with Earth), and lives (as he plans to do to Aiolia in their fight), and that reducing everything in existence to ashes (in a figurative sense) is something he was born to do is a longtime and ultimate goal, and something that is established he is not actively doing.
Where it's verbatim confirmed by Cronus himself multiple times that only Earth and the Castle of the Titans is being affected.
@gelato_exotic: Ok that's a massive downplay and just a bad excuse because of a type of a translation released.
Also, via simple scaling he is already multiversal since the most powerful gold saints were destroying/recreating universes and he is already above them including hades:
ひ・・・光が闇を引き裂いてゆく！ The... The light is tearing through the darkness !
シジマの闇に対してシャカが光を放ったのか！？
Did Shaka cast a Light towards Shijima's Darkness !?
い・・・いやしかしこれは！？ ただの光と闇の対決ではない！！
No... But, this is !? This isn't just a normal confrontation between Light and Darkness !!
生々流転!!
Seiseiruten!!
無数の宇宙と生命が生まれては消えてゆく！！
Infinite/Innumerable/Countless Universes and lives are born and disappear !!
He was going to destroy all of time throughout all of existence and make it ashes likely universes and entire space time continuums with no exceptions he was gonna do this while literally just vibing bodying Leo Aioria a gold saint. He's also above every titan by using a single thought:
Cronus to Aioria " I'm the one who will cut all lives and time or times will be reduced to ashes all of existence no exceptions"
^This is the Spanish version and it also matches with the Portuguese version. So the translations is not even the problem since other sources state the same.
On the other hand, Gemini paradox a gold saint was able to transport both she and Ryuho are transported to "The world outside the Crossroads", which according to her are the infinite points where fate divides through the infinite choices that humans make all the time:
She shows him two possible futures in particular:
One where the Saints are victorious in their battle against Mars, but as a result the world is scorched and left in ruins, and all the Saints and their loved ones end up dying in the battle. And one where the Saints surrender to Mars, and the world is transformed into a blissful utopia under his rule.
Ryuho refuses to believe that these futures are real, and claims that they are impossible, that she is showing illusions to him. She vehemently denies it and states once again that there are infinite futures, so everything is technically possible:
So this confirms that the Saint Seiya multiverse is made of infinite timelines, rather than the unknown number we previously used.
Knowing all this, cronus is still above that since he has bodied gold saints like they were nothing which makes sense since he is the father of zeus, poseidon and hades. You also seem to forget that cronus has the Psammos Adamas, you know, a hourglass that allows him to manipulate time across MULTIPLE TIMELINES.
He also has the Pragma Spathe which allows him to remove and manipulate distance, allowing him to hit the opponent instantaneously along with other hax.
So yes, no one in db has hax/power to resist the power of the hourglass much less fight a being that is able to perceive 4-Dimension reality since he is able to alter any timeline's history without effort.
Ok that's a massive downplay and just a bad excuse because of a type of a translation released.
Explained the japanese in detail and even provided citations. I explained the ORIGINAL raw from Okada's pen, and pointed out the error in the unofficial fan translations.
Also, via simple scaling he is already multiversal since the most powerful gold saints were destroying/recreating universes and he is already above them including hades:
Taking this feat heavily out of context.
This """feat"""" is a sequential, shared chain reaction of Shaka and Shijima clashing with Agyo and Ugyo.
One which represents the birth of the universe:
One which represents the end of the universe:
And as stated it's and shown, this effect of "countless universes being created and destroyed" due to them spamming the creation and destruction of one respectively, and is not any sort of multi-universal destruction individually, and is just universes individually being counteractively created and destroyed:
And this isn't a real feat at all, since they were stated to be "representations" and "manifestations" of the Buddhist concepts of the Agyo and Ugyo (light/death of the universe, not even the Big Bang or something), and are not the literal thing, and it's just a metaphor for a mere clash of light and darkness.
Which is quite literally shown to us on panel (that this feat isn't how you're interpreting it) when there's absolutely no damage to the surroundings despite this supposed universal scale destruction, and Shaka and Shijima are still sitting in the same positions and haven't moved an inch at all. Fail to see how this is even universal, let alone multiversal. Manifestations and representations of buddhist concepts is a false equivalence to actual universe busting power, and this is a metaphor for their clash.
Which is further confirmed by further context like this where their clash is shown to be mere representations of the Yin Yang, light and darkness and whatnot:
And just like this, Agyo and Ugyo are being interchanged with these fundamental concepts of Buddhism, which is what their attacks represented (creation/destruction, life and death, opposites).
He was going to destroy all of time throughout all of existence and make it ashes likely universes and entire space time continuums with no exceptions he was gonna do this while literally just vibing bodying Leo Aioria a gold saint. He's also above every titan by using a single thought:
Never stated he would destroy all of time nor all of existence.
Cronus to Aioria " I'm the one who will cut all lives and time or times will be reduced to ashes all of existence no exceptions"
^This is the Spanish version and it also matches with the Portuguese version. So the translations is not even the problem since other sources state the same.
Yeah? I literally I posted this above myself. This is literally just piggybacking on his statement earlier of saying he hunts all the time.
Cronus mentions that's he been born to bring destruction upon everything (as he's doing with only Earth and the Castle in Tartartus right now). and specifically mentions cutting time (as he's doing again, with Earth), and lives (as he plans to do to Aiolia in their fight), and that reducing everything in existence to ashes (in a figurative sense) is something he was born to do is a longtime and ultimate goal, and something that is established he is not actively doing. The phrasing is clear cut for this ambiguous claim.
Again, literally stated multiple times by Cronus himself only Earth and the Castle of Titans is being affected, as posted above.
On the other hand, Gemini paradox a gold saint was able to transport both she and Ryuho are transported to "The world outside the Crossroads", which according to her are the infinite points where fate divides through the infinite choices that humans make all the time:
She shows him two possible futures in particular:
One where the Saints are victorious in their battle against Mars, but as a result the world is scorched and left in ruins, and all the Saints and their loved ones end up dying in the battle. And one where the Saints surrender to Mars, and the world is transformed into a blissful utopia under his rule.
Ryuho refuses to believe that these futures are real, and claims that they are impossible, that she is showing illusions to him. She vehemently denies it and states once again that there are infinite futures, so everything is technically possible:
So this confirms that the Saint Seiya multiverse is made of infinite timelines, rather than the unknown number we previously used.
Knowing all this, cronus is still above that since he has bodied gold saints like they were nothing which makes sense since he is the father of zeus, poseidon and hades.
Again, taken heavily out of context. Literally minutes later, Paradox elaborates on this:
What Paradox sees are possibilities and fates that do not exist upon her viewing them. The whole plot point of that episode is Ryuho being forced to to decide which possible future he will make reality.
Paradox even verbatim confirms that these possibilities cannot both exist as reality. There are infinite possibilities but only one can become reality, possibilities=/=actual reality . Even in our world there are infinite possibilities for everything, doesn't mean they actually exist, and in Saint Seiya they're stated not to.
For hades, he can just recreate a corpse or posseeder as a ghost no one in this list for DB can attack ghosts nor resist possession, I don't see how a ssg will do anything to him but the hax difference is too high for me to bother discussing.
Agyo and Ungyo are just a universal attack spam that doesn't fit their classic AP, you would have had a better point by saying that hades would be multiversal by creating realms of infinite size, The only multiversal in SS are chronos, zeus, abzu, saturn, koga.
I'm glad to see that there are still people who defend SS on this forum, but you just gave him ammunition to blow up your argument.
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