@takenstew22: Tag me next time. So you guys can use "current She Hulk" but I can't use Gladiator's most current feat? These arbitrary, double standard rules in comic vs debates is why I barely even debate anymore. You people also forget that Thanos said Gladiator was the most dangerous of the Annihilators which included Beta Ray Bill who's Thor's equal and that Tyrant said he was the strongest one as well?
I've seen more consistent high showings from Gladiator than low showings when I think about it. He was only ever weak during his debut which was decades ago.
The whole fight revolves around current She-Hulk because she got an amp from the Celestials a couple of years back that made her more powerful. No you can use current feats, the problem is people are baffled why anyone in their right mind would use such a feat to begin with, it's like the concept of outliers, context and canon/non-canon gets thrown out the window. Nobody forgot about that, the problem is it's just a statement, no better than the time Thanos said he avoids fighting the Hulk and compared the Hulk to Champion with the Power Gem who one-shotted a planet. Tyrant was talking about Surfer, not Gladiator.
Then you haven't seen enough, there are like dozens of low showings from the character, half a dozen at least in the last few years alone, stuff like failing to take out Heimdal with a galaxy long blitz and then struggling to beat him, getting one-shot by Throgg, struggling against dead Asgardians that Angela beat up, getting beat down by Jane Thor until his kid came to save him, having Sunspot out do him by being both faster and stronger, getting mangled by amped Anhilius in 2 pages, getting killed by a Moon busting laser, struggling to walk through a Starbrand fire that someone like She-Hulk ignored, getting KO'd by a blast that didn't KO several street tiers and mid-tiers in Guardians of the Galaxy comic, getting KO'd by being stabbed with a sword, etc...
I haven't read some of those stories so I can't comment on them but the Jane Foster one is false. He defeated her and captured her and his son didn't save him. Judging by how bad you misremembered this encounter you're going to have to provide scans or direct me to the stories themselves so I can get the context of those low showings.
*edit*
Nevermind, I saw another post where you posted the scans and another poster already gave full context and debunked each one and now you're repeating the same failed arguments. Don't bother.
Nothing i said about Jane Foster is false he literally got put down on his knees by Jane who stood over him and he needed his son to attack and distract her so he could blitz her and grab her by the throat
Don't worry i addressed that poster already.
@del_torro: Oh boy you went in over your head, lets start.
Sunspot never outdid Gladiator in strength or speed
That's just how he likes talking shit and being a pompous smart mouth lol. That's sunspots character, should I post when he said he's strongest mutant on earth? Will you also accept that as a legit feat? Smh. Not to mention Deathbird sunspot and Cannonball attacked Gladiator and couldn't beat him
Yes he did actually, first of all he catches a spear thrown by a bloodlusted Gladiator
catching spear thrown by someone does not mean you are stronger or faster than them. Good lord.
Secondly he is seen holding Gladiator back and Cannonball swooping in for a punch
Now you can argue this isn't proof that Sunspot is stronger and it would be a valid argument but the real argument comes from Sunspot having a feat of strength that is above any feat Gladiator has done.
nope nope nope nope nope
you are trying to shift the goal post
The argument is you saying "sunspot out did gladiator in speed and strength in new mutants"
Which never happened
You coming in to say, "but sunspot has other great feats that are better than gladiators" is shifting goal posts.
We are talking new mutants where gladiator fought sunspot, Cannonball and Deathbird at the same time. The fight where Cannonball did not over power, outspeed or out do gladiator in any way. Please stay on topic
It's the feat where Sunspot takes of his regulator headband and is capable of holding the weight of Earth in place with Hercules, effectively holding half the weight of Earth
Now show me anything from Gladiator in terms of physical strength that even comes close to this, considering Gladiator actually has very poor feats of physical strength and is filled with anti-feats for it like
once more. We are not arguing about who has better strength feats between gladiator and sunspot.
We are discussing your claim of sunspot outdoing gladiator in speed and strength in new mutants. If you can't prove that anything like that happens in new mutants, then accept that stop making useless comparisons to shift away the focus
Struggled to lift a portion of a power plant
Took great efforts to break out of Polaris holding him in place
He needed help from Uni-Surfer to push a small meteor like structure into space
His good feats aren't much better it's all just pushing space ships and building sized structures but the point is he is a highly inconsistent character with not many good showings(in some areas like physical strength no good showings) and a ton of low showings.
-are you talking about Asgard shiar war where he beat the shit out of him Dallas, because you're really downplaying, we saw like one page of their fight and the next time we saw Heimdall he'd been stomped
No i am not downplaying at all, read the comic itself, Gladiator attempted to blitz Heimdal across the entire galaxy going at the speed where he would cross entire galaxies in the BLINK OF AN EYE and he specifically waited for Heimdall to blink to cheap shot him so Heimdall wouldn't see him coming and he still failed to take him out with said galaxy wide, blink of an eye fast, cheapshot blitz
And while he did beat Heimdall later on, he clearly struggled to do so because he came out with his clothes torn and bleeding from his shoulder.
So he clearly struggled to get past Heimdall, even cheap shot massive blitzes, compare that to say Hulk, who just casually swatted Heimdall away
the first hit was a warning shot. You see gladiator telling heimdall to stand down, that his fight is not with him. The first hit was not meant to one shot.
And heimdall uses the magic of the Bifrost to fight, and a magic sword, of course gladiator is going to bleed if he takes a hit. But seeing how his next hit sent heimdall flying through multiple buildings and had him collapse, that's not a fight where gladiator struggled.
Having the power of Thor does not mean he is equal to Thor, where was it said those were country sized meteors? That's true we don't know for sure if he one-shot him, but given that he flew away and Gladiator did not chase him i assume he at least stunned him long enough to fly far away.
the meteors were shown when alter ego produced and threw them, the size comparison from them to alter ego is enough to know their size.
I have no problem with throgg stunning gladiator, but all I'm saying is we don't know if he knocked him out.
the dead asgardians he fought were Thor and odin. The dead asgardians still retained their powers (heck the loki one tore the destroyer open, and the Odin one once shot neutron, a shiar guard member who is powered by a black hole). So he was going toe to toe against a version of Thor and a version of Odin, while also fighting other undead asgardians all on his own. Angela beating a weakened version Odin isn't so bad when she beat unworthy Thor multiple times and Thor stomped depowered Odin.
They regained SOME of their power not all of it and how much is some we don't know
And yes while dead Loki managed to open up Destroyed with his magic which honestly is very questionable since it makes no sense for even the real full powered Loki to do the same, his magic was still easily swatted away by kid Loki
It's bad in the context of Gladiator struggling with the same Odin and Asgardians that got taken out by characters that are or should be weaker than Gladiator. That's the point.
the difference is that Gladiator was taking on undead Odin, Thor and Asgardian soldiers on his own. He was literally the only person left fighting them all, the shiar guard was knocked out all around him. That's not a bad feat.
-lol, he was knocking around Jane with his eye blasts and punches. She manage to landed one hit on him. After this he choked her and knocked her out. How is this a low showing? Jane went toe to toe against/showed strength equal to people like Hercules, Thor, Apocalypse, Depowered Odin (in a fight that broke/damaged multiple moons). Even then he knocked out a shiar God she was having trouble with (someone she said was on part with depowered Odin)
One hit of hers put him on his knees and he needed his son to distract her to give him an opportunity to choke her and teleport away
and one hit from him also had her lying on the ground too, they both knocked each other down different times and he came out on top. My issues is with your original post where you said she was beating him down.
That's just outright false
And yet Jane was treated like nothing by Immortal Hulk, who She-Hulk is comparable to
Struggling against someone who is comparable to Hercules and Unworthy Thor, characters who got fodderized by Hulk to who She-Hulk is comparable here isn't a good defense for Gladiator in his She-Hulk VS thread.
She-Hulk can beat gladiator for all I care. I have no problem with that. What I have Issue with is your blatant lowballing, talking about how gladiator was getting beat down by Jane which is outright false, or talking about how sunspot overpowered and outsped him which is also outright false.
-lol if every statement sunspot gives is word of God, then Sunspot is stronger than hulk, since he's the strongest mutant on earth (shut up Franklin Richards, Legion, Nate grey, proteus etc etc)
First off Sunspot already intercepted a spear thrown by a blooldlusted Gladiator, i dunno how Sunspot is stronger then Hulk? Hulk isn't a mutant and what he is clearly talking about there is physical strength, not overall power, do you have any mutants that have physical strength better than holding half the Earths weight in place?
if it's physical strength then I concede to that, but there clearly stronger mutants than Sunspot.
Once more catching a thrown spear is not proof of being faster or stronger than the spear thrower.
and amped annihilus is on thanos level or above, why is this a low showing. Annihilus on his own is already beating Herald level people, then he added hulks strength to his previous strength, why is Gladiator losing here a low showing?
Because once against this She-Hulk is comparable to Immortal Hulk and weaker versions like Indestructible Hulk have both done better against Annhilius than Gladiator.
His fight with Gladiator
His fight with Hulk
Hulk both lasted longer, tanked more attacks and did more damage to Annhilius then Gladiator.
once more, I'm not trying to argue Gladiators superiority above hulk or she hulk. How many high tiers do you think can last long against annihilus amped by Hulks powers? I'm not trying to push gladiator above people like hulk or Thor, my problem is you acting like a majority of hight tiers won't get stomped by this version of annihilus
-when did this happen? Gladiator seems pretty much alive currently
Back in Hickmans Avengers
-I'm pretty sure he was tanking an attack from Starbrand that was making continent sized explosions. Meanwhile she-Hulk "ignored" starbrands fire when she wasn't attacking anybody and Captain America was right next to her. That's not impressive
No she hit Gladiator with a blast that was certainly not continental in size which first knocked him back then he struggled to push through it
She went berserk later on and her blasts were going upwards towards the sky and She-Hulk walked in casually in them
did you see the scans I posted and the blast that covered a continent, are you just ignoring it?
Also, she hulk is absorbing energy while Gladiator is outright tanking it, this is not a low showing
Cap was never hit by the blast, so i have no idea why you bring him up.
obviously because she hulk is absorbing the energy
we're not going about PIS of an explosion that doesn't scratch human characters like Corsair Summers or moondragon or even freaking Cosmo the talking space dog, somehow knocked out Gladiator and the entire shiar imperial guard? No? Fine, that's a terrible feat for gladiator, if only he had better showings
Thath's the whole point of the character and the arguments here, all of these are low showings because the character is massively inconsistent.
and some scenes are obviously PIS. We know gladiator can tank stronger things, so when we suddenly see him being knocked out by an explosion that doesn't kill human characters standing right next to him it's not an opportunity to start going off about how weak he is
aren't you going to mention that it was a magic sword attack from Hell Lord, Hela goddess of death, lol, why is this a low showing? A majority of characters would be taken out by a direct attack from a hell Lord. A magic sword Hela used to defeat annihilus in the same series
I dunno why it matters who wields the sword he got stabbed in the back and went night, night. Hela didn't hit him with a magic attack which would be an entirely different argument. Annhilius would be beaten by a regular sword that can cut him, Gladiators regenerative powers are not on par with someone like She-Hulk who wouldn't be dropped by a stab in the back.
it matters because the sword was made by magic by a Hell Lord and stabbed into him by that hell Lord. You seriously believe that a civilian with a regular sword would kill gladiator.
Really, I don't care about this battle but the gladiator downplay on this site is... Just wow
I mean, yeah he's a jobber, but let's not go out of our way to try to make him look even worse.
The reason why the vast majority of the site "downplays" the character is because he gets downplayed in the comics constantly, he certainly does not come of as a character on the level of Hulk and Thor.
And as you say yourself, he is a jobber one of the biggest jobbers in comic actually.
yes he's a jobber, but going out of your way to miss interpret and down play is just something else.
I mean, She hulk looks more impressive for being strong enough to comfortably beat a high tier Character who can fly through stars and exchange blows with other high tiers.
But when you low ball the hell out of it, it's just She hulk stomps because gladiator sucks
Gladiator "struggled" with Starbrands power but here's the next scan
Not only that but Gladiator tanks Thor's orbital strike with Terrax in hand, it's weird how he cherry picks scans to never show full context.
Three of Starbrands display of power also She-Hulk never had any of Starbrands attacks used against her just the flame outburst that didn't even hurt Cap or anyone else surrounding it.
He needed help from Uni-Surfer to push a small meteor like structure into space
Posts this low ball scans and doesn't read the context where Gladiator had his strength drained and both state that Uni-Surfer gave Glad's back his strength. Imagine not being able to read and still posting that as a low ball against a character that was already weakened in said story for plot hahahahahahahahahaha.
Took great efforts to break out of Polaris holding him in place
Took great effort, He literally breaks out with one page in-between. It go's Polaris encases him in shi'ar metal, next scan is Vulcan with Charles and torturing Darwin, Gladiator breaks free as no where on panel did it even show that it took great effort of any type just that he flexed out of it.
I've never seen someone exaggerate this badly or post out of context so wildly.
@underfire47: these are the meteors being thrown out by alter ego who is moon sized
Gladiator "struggled" with Starbrands power but here's the next scan
Is the next scan suppose to show something? He struggled walking through the fire so he flew up outside it and blew his freeze breath at her.
Not only that but Gladiator tanks Thor's orbital strike with Terrax in hand, it's weird how he cherry picks scans to never show full context.
Not sure why you think that is impressive, especially considering Brood Thor overpowered Gladiator to the point where Gladiator was screaming at the top of his lungs.
This same Thor btw got one-shot by Cap wielding Mljonir.
The same Thor that got overpowered by a bunch of meteors the size of basketballs falling on him
She-Hulk tanked nothing on Gladiator's level during this.
No she tanked way batter.
Three of Starbrands display of power also She-Hulk never had any of Starbrands attacks used against her just the flame outburst that didn't even hurt Cap or anyone else surrounding it.
She walked into Starbrands attack and walked inside her fire with no issue, while Gladiator struggled to walk through just the fire and was pushed back by direct attacks. Cap was never touched by the fire let alone the attacks.
Posts this low ball scans and doesn't read the context where Gladiator had his strength drained and both state that Uni-Surfer gave Glad's back his strength. Imagine not being able to read and still posting that as a low ball against a character that was already weakened in said story for plot hahahahahahahahahaha.
I think you missed the part where he still needed Surfer to push the meteor, his strength returned but he still needed help. Oh poor Heli, you tried though lol.
Took great effort, He literally breaks out with one page in-between. It go's Polaris encases him in shi'ar metal, next scan is Vulcan with Charles and torturing Darwin, Gladiator breaks free as no where on panel did it even show that it took great effort of any type just that he flexed out of it.
He breaks out of it 2 pages later, after he was shown encased and both scans he was yelling out because he was clearly struggling.
If there wasn't any great effort he wouldn't be yelling out at the top of his lungs.
I've never seen someone exaggerate this badly or post out of context so wildly.
Have you taken a look at your posts? I mean they are kinda legendary here on comicvine lol
@del_torro: No, catching a spear is still not good enough proof of sunspot outspeeding gladiator
It absolutely can be, because it shows someone reacting to someone else and countering their attack.
-sunspot having a better strength feat than gladiator is not a low showing for gladiator. Hyperion caught a planet larger than earth yet blue marvel with no planetary feats can fight him, not every high tier has feats of planetary strength. When listing gladiators low showings, you shouldn't be mentioning sunspot having a better strength feat.
The problem is Blue Marvel does not have anti-strength feats, Gladiator does. Not every high tier has feats of planetary strength most of the time because they haven't been around long enough.
-a warning shot in battle isn't a killing shot or with intent to ko. Honestly the way heimdall was completely stomped in the end makes it up for me, that's why I don't really have a problem with this feat
This isn't a warning shot... Do you know what a warning shot is? It's firing your gun into the air or into the ground or somewhere around the person you are threatening, a warning shot is not shooting someone in the chest or even the leg and saying "this is a warning shot", no you skipped the warning shot and attacked the person directly. It wouldn't be so much a problem for me either if it wasn't for the fact that Gladiators clothes were torn up and he was bleeding, indicating a struggle between the 2.
-Gladiator didn't need his sons intervention. Just because his son attacked her before him doesn't mean gladiator was being stomped. Nobody reads that fight and leaves with the mindset that Jane was beating down gladiator.
That's highly debatable, because if Jane didn't stop there and smacked him on the top of his head with a hammer while he was kneeling it might have been the end of that fight. I know a lot of people that have read that fight and thought Jane was winning there until kid Gladiator intervened.
This is not a Thor and immortal hulk situation, gladiator knocked back Jane before her attack and choked her enough to ko after, Thor and hulls fight was not on that level, it was Thor getting absolutely overpowered. All I see from the Jane fight is two peers
I never said it was, i am saying you can beat someone with a single hit or at least have them on the ropes, there are numerous examples of this in the comics. I don't even disagree that Jane and Gladiator are around the same level, it's just that to me she was winning that until the intervention.
-well, I guess with the mindset that all the shiar guard and soldiers that the zombie asgardians fought were featless fodder then yeah. Fine, I concede on this point.
Ok.
-when a hell goddess creates a sword with magic and uses it to stab a bullet proof character, I'd assume it has magical properties. And if you knew it was low confidence gladiator why did you pass it off as full power (tbh I don't take his confidence levels into consideration most of the time, if he gets stomped by someone I just accept it as him getting stomped)
I mean i am sure there are magical properties that doesn't mean does magical properties are activated, Dragonfang is a magical sword but i haven't seen it actually use any magic, it's magic just allows it to cut things regular sword couldn't, it's basically no different then an adamantium sword more or less. I re-read the feat recently and saw Hela talking about his confidence which i didn't remember the first time when i mentioned the feat. Most of the times no, but when it's directly referenced then it's fair to use it as an excuse, the F4 famously beat him by lowering his confidence which they explain in the comic, so instances like that are not low showings for him.
-I've always considered hulk to be stronger than Gladiator and a majority of high tiers, so annihilus amped with hulks strength beating him doesn't bother me
Ok you do, but there are people that don't, there are people that think Gladiator is above Hulk, so my low showing examples were directed at such a person specifically in this thread.
-there are a lot of high tiers who don't have planetary feats or consistent ones. It's not really something to knock him down, he already has statements of planetary feats and destroyed a plane with punches. Sunspot lifting the weight of a planet doesn't count as a low showing for gladiator. Now if glads was in that comic and couldn't do it and had to be saved by sunspot then that's a different case
I mean if you were a high-tier for a decent amount of time in the comics, you more then likely have planetary feats, nobody is consistent, but some are less consistent than others. He destroyed a dead planetoid, it was honestly a feat that's pretty outlier for him, given all his other feats. I mean it's a low feat for Gladiator because that makes Sunspot stronger and i don't even consider Sunspot a high tier tbh, maybe on the low end of that spectrum.
-for the Starbrand feat I'm talking about it happens at the beginning of next issue after the one you're referencing
If you are talking about this
that's the fire/scar she created on the planet since before Gladiator even got there, you can see it here
and here
That shape was always present there and in the scan that we see it that you reference we directly see her hitting him as well and she definitely isn't hitting him with a continent sized blast.
-teen cyclops optic blasts get tanked by a lot of people, gladiator knocked down like down isn't impressive at all
I would have to see the scan because teen Cyclops has knocked down Hulk, so i am not sure it's a low showing.
-getting out done by people like gladiator or Cannonball doesn't really require explanation for why their awful showings. Gambit is a street tier and Cannon is like low end mid tier. For Wolverine, reading the fight just made me shake my head, still seems like a bad showing to me
How was he outdone? Some street tiers have the ability to harm others. I mean it wasn't much of a fight, Wolverine just jumped on him and stabbed him and they flew through some buildings and then Gladiator shrugged him off and flew away, not sure whats bad about it.
-the Rachel feat is from the end of the shiar war. It was one of the shiar death commandos, he was beating the shit out of gladiator then base Rachel grey came and tore his head apart. Meanwhile gladiator was able to fight Phoenix echo Rachel well throughout the story line, so it really stands out
I would need to see the scans if you don't mind.
-you just talked about brood Thors bad showings yourself
Yes, but what was jobbing on Gladiators part specifically about that showing?
-well gladiator was weakened by radiation when he fought dying hulk, but that's no excuse for the Ass whooping
I mean he wasn't weakened until the end of the fight, he already lost it at that point, but i don't see why it's a low showing.
you're right about the meteors, I concede on that, it's starting to look like reaching
Sure no worries.
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