No matter which version Gilgamesh would win. Unless it’s EOS Aizen then he could beat Archer and Caster Gilgamesh.
Otherwise, CCC Gilgamesh has destroyed a multiversal 8D construct. And even if you don’t believe it’s Multiversal it is at its very lowest star level; Aizen ain’t touching that.
@myriad_star: Based EOP thinks FSN Gil can beat Aizen.
Keep thinking Gil is star level when we’ve already have confirmation that no Servant can planet bust and characters far more powerful than his entire pantheon are all around that level.
Dude Astarte is a living conceptual universe and has statements putting her at galaxy level. Amerterasu is at least star level, and is stated as a Bodhisattva able to control a solar system. Saver is also a Bodhisattva. Velbar is comparable to Amerterasu.
Oh? So we’re taking classifications literally now?
Then I guess Romulus has an NP stronger than Ea than? You’re admitting Romulus can bust a star and that he could easily overpower Ea?
>He didn’t read Lostbelt 4
Romulus has no Anti-World NP.
Arjuna Alter was literally stated to be resetting the planet, nothing about any universes or multiverses.
Also, I love how you ignored how I stated:
Also, Arjuna Alter is shown cutting a universe or galaxy (depending on how you see it) apart when utilizing his Noble Phantasm.
"universe or galaxy" no mention of muliverses. Who is putting words in who's mouth again?
>He’s also lying and putting words in my mouth
I clearly said characters FAR stronger than Gil are only planet, which is true. No Servant can planet bust, this is true.
"Keep thinking Gil is star level when we’ve already have confirmation that no Servant can planet bust and characters far more powerful than his entire pantheon are all around that level." --- I am willing to admit I misinterpreted what you said. I thought you meant characters far above Gil's pantheon weren't even planet level.
>haha lol other debates
I don’t care what you think when you’re arguing sources you haven’t actually read.
While it is true I haven't gotten to the latest versions yet. I do think I can do OK for earlier versions. Especially, Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Zero, and Fate/CCC.
A great Noble Phantasm with the same essence as the Noble Phantasm “Everything Leads to my Spear” possessed by the Heroic Spirit of the same name. The sublimation of the concept of ‘development and expansion of a civilization’ into a Noble Phantasm.
So Romulus easily one shots Gil and effortlessly overpowers Ea.
>Arjuna Alter
The difference is you actively argued a completely different point than what I was making. While here you’re arguing semantics. You say Arjuna Alter is galaxy - universe level despite the fact it’s an entire plot point how he wants to eventually expand to doing his reset to the galaxy, and it’s only ever stated he’d doing it to the Indian Lostbelt which could even be argued as continent level due to how textures and Lostbelts work.
>Gil Versions
I’m more than happy to debate regular incarnations of Gil, because every single version of him apart from CCC is consistent in power levels with the rest of the franchise. CCC is barely translated, inconsistent as hell and has outright been retconned. It’s impossible to argue CCC Gilgamesh due to the ability to argue CCC way beyond the entire rest of the franchise.
If you want to argue Gilgamesh against Aizen without dipping into the dumpster fire that’s CCC, I’d be happy to do so.
@chaos239: @myriad_star: I mean I literally only two people on Vine thinks that Gilgamesh is multiversal. But on VSBW it's like a cult following and Spacebattles is anti about that sort of thing.
But I don't really agree with the scaling. At max, Gilgamesh is multi-planetary and planetary if you really wanted to squeeze in the wank.
While Ea is categorized as a sword, its way of being is closer to a wand. Its three sections respectively represent the heavens, the earth, and the underworld. It exemplifies the world's way of being by having each one of them rotate in opposite directions. The "cosmos" is thus represented by matching all three of these representations. Everything together represents the universe.
As it is "The Sword That Cut the World Apart", he calls it “something that knows the hellish planet before genesis”, the planet's primordial form before heaven and earth were split, where it was a land filled with naught but lava and gas and a hell of scorching heat and intense cold. Referring to it as hell, Gilgamesh states that it is the source of all legends of the land of the dead. The memory of the time before the existence of the planet, a place and time when organic existence had been impossible, is something possessed by all organisms, but it is no longer found in the imaginations or spoken memories of people. It is the first memory of life that is a genetically inherent and repressed knowledge which can only be shown to those looking upon the sword.
Borne of the winds drawn unto the revolution of the three cylinders of Ea, a spatial severance is formed by use of the Sword of Separation. Compressed and intertwined stratifications of wind become a virtual dislocation of space-time, annihilating any who would stand in opposition. Aside from holding an elimination rank "Armor Class" statistic of a sufficient magnitude to resist Purging, or enacting mutual negation via a counterattack that inflicts the same order of damage, the damage rendered cannot be defended against.
Grinding at the laws of space with its power, it creates a rip in space that extends from not only the earth but also to the sky and atmosphere. It is a crack that distorts space to pierce the very nature of the World itself to show the "Truth." All that uses the cut space as a foundation is swallowed and crushed by the void, and the dazzling light only continues to grow as it continues to complete the destruction. Its use in a fight is not something that can be called a battle, but rather the wrath of nature itself.
Performing the miracle of genesis, something that reveals creation - the beginning of everything, the attack opens an abyss capable of crushing anything. The center of the storm is not calm, but rather a hole to hell itself that returns all that enters its realm to the nothingness from which it originated. The wind pressure creates a vacuum that takes all things with form, the land, the atmosphere, and the sky, into the whirling void. The tumult of genesis takes everything that was nothing more than chaos, which could not form any meaning, and creates a new truth that divides and distinguishes Heaven, Sea, and Earth. Within the darkness where everything is returned to nothingness, only Ea is left to shine with brilliance like a Star of Creation amidst the destruction, the first thing illuminating the new world.
And I am fine with arguing for other versions than CCC Gil. Because everyone knows that CCC Gil would stomp, especially with things like Fragarach, Gae Bolg and Sha Naqba Imuru. He can also move at MFTL+.
This is what Fate/Zero Gil did with Ea:
Unless you show proof that Aizen can do something similar Gil stomps.
Especially, since Gil scales to other Servants and can move at Hypersonic speeds.
Personally, while I believe CCC Gilgamesh is multiversal. I can understand why others would think otherwise, but there is no way he is below Star Level.
Of course, Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night only showed Continental at most (unless you are one of those people who thinks Reality Marble's are actually worlds). Though he does nuke mountains quite casually:
Personally, while I believe CCC Gilgamesh is multiversal. I can understand why others would think otherwise, but there is no way he is below Star Level.
Of course, Fate/Zero and Fate/Stay Night only showed Continental at most (unless you are one of those people who thinks Reality Marble's are actually worlds). Though he does nuke mountains quite casually:
@poestyn: explain to me why spiritual pressure would matter against a higher dimensional being.
I think @mrballins: has disagreed how Gilgamesh was 8D. But I think that only the core of the Moon Cell was stated to be 8D and not the Servants that SE.RA.PH summons
And I think in Fate, lower dimensional beings can hurt higher one's, as said by @garbs: when Tiamat's 4D pocket dimension example.
@myriad_star: I found the pictures you wanted in a bigger format for Fate/Strange Fake.
While they don’t explicitly show the world being destroyed 7 times statement. It does give an example of Gil’s (and Enkidu’s) power in Fate/Strange Fake.
@chasekilleen: @myriad_star: Strange Fake’s example of the world being ‘destroyed’ doesn’t literally translate to ‘And Gil blew the planet up 7 times’.
Especially given the words are literally spoken by the Sacred Prostitute, who was simply being quoted.
It quite literally stated that Enkidu’s and Gilgamesh’s fight destroyed and recreated the world 7 times.
And if you are going to use that excuse then people can no longer say Goku is universal due to his and Beerus’ fight because that only showed planets and possibly stars being destroyed, it was only stated that they were going to destroy the universe.
@myriad_star: @chaos239: I mean Chaos does kinda have a point. IIRC they said that it FELT LIKE that Earth was destroyed and recreated 7 times in a row.
I mean, we have two people confirming that it's practically impossible to destroy the planet, unless you do some kind of sorcery to the counter force.
Holmes: "Yes, concerning the destruction of this planet. To start with the conclusion, that is actually possible."
Da Vinci:"Wa-Wait a second, wait, wait! That is impossible!"“With the Safety system that this planet possess, it is not possible for this planet to be destroyed completely."
Holmes:"Certainly, that is correct.""This planet that possess a continuous history has overcame many dangers.""Putting aside the inhuman beings that came from the outside (space), destroying this planet with something that is born from the inside is close to impossible.""That is why, to destroy this planet, first you should overturn that basic concept.""That is, something that the Lion King tried to do. And then, what that Edison tried to do using the power of the Holy Grail."
Da Vinci:"That Avenger said that as well? Still... it's probably just a rumor.""In the first place, even if you completely release the full power of a Top Servant's Noble Phantasm, it won't be able to completely destroy a planet.""Even if an Anti-Planet Noble Phantasm exist... according to the calculations, it is still not enough to destroy this planet."
The official definition of anti-world is that it can directly affect Gaia.
The classification of Noble Phantasms that affect the World itself, such as Enuma Elish. While the actual output is around the level of Excalibur, Enuma Elish's effect of unquestionably being that of the legend of "ripping the world" puts the sword in a special category.
It can rip layers of the world, but it cannot outright destroy all of Earth, due to the counterforce and also the lack of decent firepower to one-shot and outright destroy the world.
Edit: don't think Gilgamesh has had an upgrade to his Enkidu in CCC.
But Enkidu's chains are definitely stronger than Gilgamesh's as Enkidu, literally uses the counterforce to boost power of his chains, it depends on the threat to the earth itself.
So yes, if Tiamat can escape those chains that are bigger and stronger than Gilgamesh's then opponents way stronger than Hercules can bust open the chains without trouble.
@myriad_star: There’s a difference between some Prostitute saying what something ‘felt like’ and characters extremely knowledgeable in ki control and such.
@poestyn: Because Ea erases your entire origin and also your individual identity as a concept. It bypasses everything from durability to immortality.
It shatters space and time itself and the winds that Ea passively generate literally rips over dimensions passively.
Ea can bypass everything like spiritual pressure and his immortality.
And I don't think that Aizen's mind tricks like illusions or perfect illusions would work as he was able to tell from a glance that Caster faked her own death and he was in an illusion.
Similarly, the world of all evil couldn't even affect him.
You're talking about billions of evil and corruption, couldn't even do anything towards Gilgamesh.
His Sha Naqba Imuru passively allows him to see the truth of everything at a single glance.
Including the enemy's powers and stats and can see the future.
Like Yhwach's Almighty.
Basically it gives him information even before the fight starts.
@poestyn:>So how is he a high dimensional being???
You have a very narrowminded view on dimensions, not like whether someone is higher dimensional or not matters here for the most part since Gilgamesh just riddles Aizen with anti-regeneration weapons or straight up wipes him with Ea
>His ea cannot destroy planets or universes so how is he high dimensional???
First off, that does not matter as to whether he is higher D or not
Second :
Just to note, but the planet has active measures against anti-planet attacks, so this is planetary via lowball
>but explain to me how ea or gilgamesh would harm aizen if they do not possess spiritual pressure or anything similar to it?
Are you braindead? Servants are spiritual entities just like Shinigami, they can interact with each other just fine
@mrballins: @kingxix: ahh yes, another person has asked me this too. I'm not gonna ride on what someone else tells me. But I'd say anywhere from planetary to multi-planetary.
Actually, Ballins what is the exact difference between of Reason of Earth and Reason of Heaven, apart from the stupid 999999999 damage AKA called gameplay RPG mechanics. What makes it so special aside from the fact, it bypassed BB's authorities?
Lol I used to think that it was three galaxies, but they are just energy fields or something.
I'm pretty sure Reality Marbles are planet sized or does that explicitly applies to Alexander's Reality Marble, the Ionioi Hetairoi?
@chasekilleen: Ea can’t do most of anything you said.
What can Ea do? It’s output is Excalibur level, it can just mess with the textures of the world. Hell, some of Angra Mainyu’s fodder in HA managed to survive a full power Enuma Elish.
@chaos239: Ea is not Excalibur level. Do you even watch Fate? A fully released excaliblast was being held back by not even a Enuma Elish, just a blast from Ea from Gilgamesh who was just playing around with Saber.
Btw, they call it a anti-world NP for a reason bud. Don't give me Da Vinci's BS qoute since it's obvious she isn't the know-all, tell-all for noble phantasms. Gilgamesh could easily destroy the solar system with Ea based upon his feat of just beating Kiara. Nah, scratch that. It could destroy the universe since he busted her universe sized RM. Factor in that he was holding back Ea's output in that fight so he wouldn't kill Hakuno and we'd see much higher levels of output if he was fighting seriously, if not infinite since his power of the beginning authority would amp him forever if he wanted it to.
@mrballins: @chaos239: It says that it is equal to Excalibur or surpasses it.
It destroys layers of Earth, but it rips apart time-space, I'm pretty sure it conceptually erases the enemies.
It destroys Reality Marbles with ease, that are planet sized IIRC.
And it resets the world or knows the hellish planet before genesis or something.
"The sword that cuts and divides the World, with output matching or even exceeds Artoria’s Excalibur. Its power will further increase given the support of Noble Phantasms within Gate of Babylon. More correctly speaking, “Sword of Rupture – Ea” is the Noble Phantasm, “Enuma Elish” is the state under which Sword of Rupture – Ea unleashes its maximum output. By generating wind pressure strata, the attack crushes the enemies by simulating spatial rends. In addition, the names “Sword of Rupture – Ea” and “Enuma Elish” are all given by Gilgamesh. They are thought to be references to the Great God Ea (Enki) of the Mesopotamian and Babylonian myths, and the Genesis Epic of the Babylonian myth, Enuma Elish.
The most powerful sword that cannot be duplicated by Unlimited Blade Work. Gilgamesh calls it “something that knows the hellish planet before genesis”.
The three cylindrical blades spin in different directions, generating air pressure strata. Its power will not be neutralised even when colliding with Excalibur"
Ballins,Ea Enuma Elish conceptually erase the opponent.
@chaos239:>What can Ea do? It’s output is Excalibur level,
Yeah, no. Ea being "only Excalibur level" comes from a profile that states "With output matching or even exceeding Excalibur". Ea casually dunks on Excalibur with only a fraction of its power, so even if the profile said "matching Excalibur" it would still be considered inconsistent to what happens in the story and be ignored
>Ea hasn’t destroyed a reality marble unless CCC has stuff I don’t know about.
Huh? It was ouright stated that it would have collapsed Iskandar's RM on its own if there was more mana and the soldiers didn't die
>Erasing a Texture isn’t anything new.
Yeah, no
@chasekilleen:>What makes it so special aside from the fact, it bypassed BB's authorities?
Reason of Heaven completely wipes away the texture and hits you with the force fields that do the texture ripping, Reason of Earth creates fractures in the texture and manipulates the energy seeping from them into a beam
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