@woodward: he still doesn’t scale to lightning timing lol. Luffy’s punk hazard feat>>>>>> lightning timing and he would destroy that luffy so no he doesn’t scale to lightning timing lmao
@animebattles12: What you're doing is no different than multiplier stacking that Bleach and NNT fans always use. Yes, Dogtooth is much faster than lightning but as I said: you can't prove by how much he is. Whereas Gildarts has concrete speed feats and quantifiable scaling.
I don't care what VsBattle say.
Because Katakuri only has his fight against Luffy to scale him from. Other than that fight, his only showings are toying with characters who are also lightning timers ( or faster ). Logically, he should be much faster.
@animebattles12: But they have precognition so they don't really have to be as fast as something to dodge it when they know it's coming. Gildarts on the other hand doesn't have any precog so that's pure reaction speed.
@exauce: That's not reacting to a lightspeed attack. That's just looking at the source of a sudden bright light. The kick wasn't travelling at light speed b4 he said "too slow" because the light had already hit luffy's face b4 his foot made contact. His foot was just doing the chrage up thing he does b4 every attack.
That's just looking at the source of a sudden bright light.
meaning reacting to light Kizaru
The kick wasn't travelling at light speed b4 he said "too slow" because the light had already hit luffy's face b4 his foot made contact.
Went lightspeed and called him too slow, cuz Luffy at that point his too slow for him in Lightspeed, i don't even get what u trying to explain here, Also Luffy had done before wait i get the scan for u
His foot was just doing the chrage up thing he does b4 every attack.
@exauce: His kick clearly accelerated after his line. You can even see it in the anime. Kizaru does his light travel and luffy notices the light from that. Then kizaru says he's too slow and kicks him. Luffy didn't react to the kick. Also rather than reacting to every single sentence react to the post as a whole cause your first sentence is redundant.
@argevil4: What u talking about man, no eh reacted to kick and even if he reacted to the light that reaction speed for him. He react to him Boi, i don't see what u talking about by now, it like u just in full denial
@exauce: No because humans can notice light the instant it hits their eye. You don't even need superhuman reactions to notice a sudden light source appearing next to you. Had he done something to dodge or block the kick itself then it would be a reaction speed feat but just noticing the light doesn't mean he has light speed reactions.
No because humans can notice light the instant it hits their eye.
This is fiction
You don't even need superhuman reactions to notice a sudden light source appearing next to you.
This is fiction
Had he does something to dodge or block the kick itself then it would be a reaction speed feat but just noticing the light doesn't mean he has light speed reactions.
He noticing he kick is reaction speed, dodging or blocking it just a better reaction speed. and Luffy two year timeskip has called Kizaru light beam too slow
@exauce: Lol guess you've never turned on a light b4. Luffy didn't react to the kick he reacted to a sudden light source appearing next to him. And 2 years later luffy has observation haki so I don't see your point.
This is fiction that is something u not understanding
Luffy didn't react to the kick he reacted to a sudden light source appearing next to him.
That light is kizaru meaning it the kick, it like saying this guy didn't react to the bullet he reacted to the piece of metal that comes of the bullets which it just stupid or u just in full denial
And 2 years later luffy has observation haki so I don't see your point.
U don't even know if he used it or not considering he was already reacting to light before pure speculation even pre-timeskip Zoro was dodging light beam
@exauce: Keep telling yourself that. All the normal humans that react to light sources everyday will disagree with you. Luffy noticing light coming off of Kizaru's body is not the same as him reacting to a lightspeed attack. And irrc the kuma and pacifista's pretime skip had an incomplete copy of kizaru's ability so that's not ls. Also the beam wasn't even fired directly at him. That's why even after he stood up we could see the rest of the beam still above him. The explosion is the actual attack. Also there's no reason why zoro would be able to react to ls attacks in thriller bark but marineford luffy can't do the same.
@exauce: "light traveling at lightspeed"....... You do realize the light we use in our lamps also travels at lightspeed right? If I shine a flash light in your eye and you react to it, it doesn't mean you have light speed reactions, it just means you have working eyes. And the pretime skip pacifista's were said to be outdated by models so they had incomplete abilities. And zoro was already on his knees when the attack was fired. He then got up and we can see that the attack still goes over his head so there is no way it was aimed directly at him. The attack explodes on impact which is what does the damage.
Also lol and zoro being faster than g2 luffy. All of this talk is irrelevant anyway as Neither of these characters is consistently ftl (katakuri doesn't even have a ftl feat). Even luffy who we've seen move at least supersonic can't catch a gazelle person going 200 kmph so the speed of the characters changes at the whim of the plot. On topic gildarts crashes katakuri.
@yomismo: Going by feats gildarts is faster since he actually has an ftl feat. I'm just saying authors tend not to keep things like that consistent cause it'd severely limit their possibilities if they actually just ran with everyone being ftl or some other ridiculous speed (refer to earlier example). Aside from feats there is portrayal which doesn't say much cause both are potrayed as being exceptionally fast (gildarts blitzing august and katakuri blitzing luffy). There's not much in favor for katakuri in the speed argument and gildarts has hax as well as more power feats so It's kinda hard to see how katakuri wins.
"light traveling at lightspeed"....... You do realize the light we use in our lamps also travels at lightspeed right? If I shine a flash light in your eye and you react to it, it doesn't mean you have light speed reactions, it just means you have working eyes.
Yea, but Luffy react to Kizaru big difference
And the pretime skip pacifista's were said to be outdated by models so they had incomplete abilities.
And zoro was already on his knees when the attack was fired. He then got up and we can see that the attack still goes over his head so there is no way it was aimed directly at him. The attack explodes on impact which is what does the damage.
he and he stood up the laser still up and ran away from it, either way, he still outruns the laser. huh no
And zoro still has another lightspeed feats
Also lol and zoro being faster than g2 luffy.
At that point maybe even now why not? LOl
All of this talk is irrelevant anyway as Neither of these characters is consistently ftl (katakuri doesn't even have a ftl feat).
He scales to them
Even luffy who we've seen move at least supersonic can't catch a gazelle person going 200 kmph so the speed of the characters changes at the whim of the plot
Travel speed =/= Combat speed try harder
. On topic gildarts crashes katakuri.
He will just come back while Katakuri easily blitz and one-shot him
@animebattles12: Puts him at what level? Do you have any quantifiable speed feats besides the meteor or lightning bolt? You can't just guess his speed from speed stacking lol.
@exauce: Kizaru emits light, luffy saw that light. It's not some kind of feat as anyone can notice light sources. Like I said the explosion is still most of the attack. You can pierce through someone with a sword but you can't blow them up. Fact remains that the shot went way above zoro's head, and he didn't even outrun it as the explosion still sent him flying. And no the pad canon isn't lightspeed either. The attack produces shockwaves and that's what flies out at zoro not the air. And you were the one trying to argue that zoro out ran a light speed attack so not sure why you think travel speed has nothing to do with your argument.
How's he gonna come back from being crashed at an atomic level? In the first place his mochi dodge works by dynamically turning a section of his body into mochi to avoid damage but if his entire body is hit by something that can destroy even his mochi form he's not coming back from that.
@argevil4: luffy in skypiea kicked a lightning bolt, lucci was much faster, g2 luffy faster, and luffy post timeskipe is much faster, katakuri blizing a luffy 10 times faster than lightning. katakuri can see the future,
base luffy has better feats of strength than gildarts and in g2 he is stronger and in g3 even more, and katakuri surpassed luffy in all stat
@animebattles12: Puts him at what level? Do you have any quantifiable speed feats besides the meteor or lightning bolt? You can't just guess his speed from speed stacking lol.
What ? We are talking about Katakuri
The Meteor feat and lightning feat are not his.
We can only scale Katakuri from the characters he fought, what do you not get about this ?
No, we can't guess how fast he is, but wether you like it or not, speed stacking is still valid, as he is many times faster than a version of Luffy that reacted to and dodged lightning.
So, even though we don't have exact numbers of how fast he is, we can still say he's faster by scaling and comparing him to characters who are faster than lightning.
@yomismo: Actual feat wise gildarts is better and even scaling off other characters he's also far faster than lightning. Also base luffy doesn't have better feats than gildarts. This is probably the time when you link that cliff buster then i link gildarts' mountain buster and we argue about which is better, but imma just save time and say that gildarts is better and that wasn't even him at his strongest. Only version of Luffy that has comparable feats is boundman and katakuri was getting knocked around by boundman attacks. Gildarts has better stats. only thing going for katakuri is future sight but the range gildarts can affect is pretty wide so the acrobatics he did to avoid luffy won't work here.
Like I said the explosion is still most of the attack.
Huh no really cuz Kizaru usually use for piercing not the explosion
You can pierce through someone with a sword but you can't blow them up.
Fact remains that the shot went way above zoro's head, and he didn't even outrun it as the explosion still sent him flying.
I change mind u it doesn't Zoro clearly put his head down to dodge it, and Yes but he outrun it
And no the pad canon isn't lightspeed either. The attack produces shockwaves and that's what flies out at zoro not the air.
It is. ?? I'm losing u
And you were the one trying to argue that zoro out ran a light speed attack so not sure why you think travel speed has nothing to do with your argument.
Yea but i combat speed not Travel speed. but i can just the scene an outlier due to Luffy traveling at massively that speed in the past
How's he gonna come back from being crashed at an atomic level? In the first place his mochi dodge works by dynamically turning a section of his body into mochi to avoid damage but if his entire body is hit by something that can destroy even his mochi form he's not coming back from that.
It don't what saying atomic level changes anything, Lol no
@exauce: I'm just gonna ignore your speed comments cause it's kinda getting hard to understand what you are trying to say. In regards to your gif, Katakuri can't reform out of nothing. If his whole body is crashed he can't do anything like what you posted.
@argevil4: Yea i agree but i would argue the reverse. Yea, If his body get crush he will turn into mini katakuri and those mini Katakuri will grow as if nothing as happened (0:43)
@exauce: No the magic gildarts used against natsu wasn't meant to destroy, that's why natsu turned mini. But when he fought august ,august's body was just shredded into pieces like everything else he crushes. August could copy and render the magic null which is why he wasn't defeated there. And Im not sure what that video is supposed to prove. He just willingly turned his body into mochi. Doesn't prove that he can reform after having his whole body torn apart.
@argevil4: Do u even have any proof of what u saying unless u have it of course, not really he forgot to hold when turning Natsu into mini Natsu meaning he wasn't holding back when he did so. Natsu's body also was shredded to pieces before turning him into mini Natsu. it proving that even if that little of him his left he is coming back like nothing, I already showed him reforming his body after it being torn apart
@animebattles12: Katakuri is not a logia he's a special paramecia. He can consciously make his body logia like, but it's not constantly that way (though it's not like actual logia's are any different as we've seen ppl like ace get hit without haki.) Since aokiji is made of ice, as long as the ice is there and not melted he can reform from the pieces, But katakuri seems to just grow more mochi when he loses part of his self, but if there is nothing to grow from he can't come back. And I think an ability that can break down something as a sub atomic level is more than enough to be considered a counter for something like mochi.
@edgelord91: It does if he seriously wants it too. He can turn it down if he wants too. But when he's serious it'll take you down. When Natsu was fighting hhim during the S level wizard test, when he really unleashed his power Natsu knew he couldn't touch him.
@animebattles12: Katakuri is not a logia he's a special paramecia. He can consciously make his body logia like, but it's not constantly that way (though it's not like actual logia's are any different as we've seen ppl like ace get hit without haki.) Since aokiji is made of ice, as long as the ice is there and not melted he can reform from the pieces, But katakuri seems to just grow more mochi when he loses part of his self, but if there is nothing to grow from he can't come back. And I think an ability that can break down something as a sub atomic level is more than enough to be considered a counter for something like mochi.
Actually, that is were you are wrong.
Katakuri is exactly the same as a Logia.
The reason why it is called a special Paramecia, is because Logia's can only be natural elements, and Mochi is not natural.
But his abilities are exactly the same as Logia's.
In fact, Katakuri's ability ( The Mochi-Mochi no mi ) was originally introduced as a Logia power, but they changed it because Logia's can only become Natural elements.
Ace has never been hit without Haki under normal circumstances.
The only time he was hit without haki was when Blackbeard disabled his powers thanks to his devil fruit ability, and when Akainu hit him because his element is stronger/hotter than fire.
The reason why it is called a special Paramecia, is because Logia's can only be natural elements, and Mochi is not natural.
But his abilities are exactly the same as Logia's.
In fact, Katakuri's ability ( The Mochi-Mochi no mi ) was originally introduced as a Logia power, but they changed it because Logia's can only become Natural elements.
@animebattles12: Yeah it was changed when they realized the mistake but it doesn't change the fact that it works slightly differently. And I'm talking about the time in alabasta. The logia transformation has to be consciously done and that goes double for katakuri, so even if he is the same as a regular logia, he's still susceptible to the attacks. If gildarts gets in one hit with his crash magic (or even just his punch cause that could send him flying above the clouds) and Katakuri isn't turned fully into mochi, he's done.
@animebattles12: Yeah it was changed when they realized the mistake but it doesn't change the fact that it works slightly differently. And I'm talking about the time in alabasta. The logia transformation has to be consciously done and that goes double for katakuri, so even if he is the same as a regular logia, he's still susceptible to the attacks. If gildarts gets in one hit with his crash magic (or even just his punch cause that could send him flying above the clouds) and Katakuri isn't turned fully into mochi, he's done.
That only applies to Ace though, who was pretty much still a Rookie.
Crocodile for example, can use his Logia ability all the time and unconsciously. So, for an experienced user like Katakuri, it should be a passive ability.
And i doubt that his punch is going to do that. Katakuri took punches from base, gear second and Gear third Luffy, and no sold it. And even Gear fourth was not enough to put him down.
@animebattles12: And everyone in the guild is MASSIVELY faster than lightning...Still, Gildarts's speed is quantifiably superior to Katakuri's. Case closed.
@animebattles12: And everyone in the guild is MASSIVELY faster than lightning...Still, Gildarts's speed is quantifiably superior to Katakuri's. Case closed.
How though ? See, this is funny, you keep saying that, but can you tell me how fast Katakuri is exactly, and then say how much faster Gildarts is ?
@animebattles12: You do realize smoker is in the same scene and he even had his arm turned into smoke already but was still hit by luffy. This applies to all logia. And crocodile doesn't have his logia body on 24/7. He learned to instinctively activate it when attacked. This is an alternative to what katakuri did (and in my opinion it's better). Katakuri can't instinctively turn parts of his body into mochi which is why Luffy's attacks went through when he couldn't use his observation haki. The fact that Kata needs to consciously think about it or else he gets hit, shows that despite being stronger he can't do everything weaker ppl can do.
And Gildarts' punches are stronger than Luffy's and katakuri getting thrown around by just kong guns shows he's not going to be able to withstand clean hits from gildarts.
@animebattles12: You do realize smoker is in the same scene and he even had his arm turned into smoke already but was still hit by luffy. This applies to all logia. And crocodile doesn't have his logia body on 24/7. He learned to instinctively activate it when attacked. This is an alternative to what katakuri did (and in my opinion it's better). Katakuri can't instinctively turn parts of his body into mochi which is why Luffy's attacks went through when he couldn't use his observation haki. The fact that Kata needs to consciously think about it or else he gets hit, shows that despite being stronger he can't do everything weaker ppl can do.
Smoker was literally a captain on the East Blue not long before that. He also doesn't have the same mastery over his Logia ability as others do. Crocodile stated that his Logia guard has become a passive ability, which is why he relies on his Logia powers so much.
But yeah, so far, Katakuri seems to use his haki every time he gets hit, so maybe he doesn't have the exact same properties as a Logia.
And Gildarts' punches are stronger than Luffy's and katakuri getting thrown around by just kong guns shows he's not going to be able to withstand clean hits from gildarts
I don't remember much from Gildart's physical strength. How are his punches stronger than Gear Fourth attacks ?
@animebattles12: Speed stacking is not valid at all lol. And being faster than a lightning timer doesn't really mean anything as lightning timing is outdated in FT as well. They have better quantifiable speed feats therefore Gild scales to better speed feats.
@animebattles12: Speed stacking is not valid at all lol. And being faster than a lightning timer doesn't really mean anything as lightning timing is outdated in FT as well. They have better quantifiable speed feats therefore Gild scales to better speed feats.
What is not valid about it ? He is multiple times faster than a version of Luffy that is massively above the speed of lightning ? It's that easy...
We can only gauge Katakuri's speed by scaling him from Luffy, because he doesn't have that many showings otherwise, aside from blitzing a few other characters that should be above lightning timing.
@animebattles12: Bcs you can't quantify it therefore it becomes an assumption and assumed speeds are never good. You have people go from faster than lightning to ftl real quick from calc stacking lmao.
And he only gets scaled to Luffy's best quantified speed feats. We don't beyond that bcs there is no way to quantify his speed.
@animebattles12: Pre timeskip gildarts sent a man flying above the clouds with one punch. He also broke a mountain with one punch and all ofthis was b4 alvarez where he came back and was stronger. The only attack luffy has that's mountain level is king kong gun and Katakuri never took that, but the attack that beat him was a weaker version so his durability isn't that high. And again he was getting thrown around by kong guns so he's not taking gildarts punches.
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