Ghost Goku (152 Years Old) vs Whis

Goku looked very strong at the end of GT, if he trained since he left with Shenlong, he might even be stronger than Whis,

Who wins ?

End of GT Goku is more featless than Superman Prime One Million.

Whis stomps.

EoGT Goku absorbed the Dragon Balls so we can assume he was akin to Shenron.

Most will still say Whis though.

Through powerscaling GT Goku stomps, by Common sense not so much

@the_caped_crusader: What does that mean? The whole Dragon Ball cast is stronger than Shenron anyway.

Whis poops on him.

Goku with ease

Featless character vs (kinda still) featless character makes for a rather boring debate to be honest.

So you think whis had absolutely no chance against Ghost Goku? crazy.

The only way to settle is to use ABC logic

Thought thats how all DBZ-related matches are settled

@xiokenji: Not really some use feats but ABC logic and power scaling feats fit dbz so well

Ok let's start

The winner is GOKU!!!

Here is my explanation

Goku during his current life span in Gt he was 52 his base was around his ssj3 Z saga level if you have watched GT you would know he was beating Rildo in his base who was stronger than majin buu.Now we don't know of beerus use 1% of his power on ssj3 z saga goku all he said was he will use a little in dragon ball super. Goku at his max is ssj4 which would be 4000x stronger than ssj3 due to the fact that his base form is ssj3 buu saga level.After goku died or left on she rom he never came back.We don't know what happen to goku but we can assume goku did more training because that's all goku does for 100 years. Now if goku at age 52 is stronger than 4000 ssj3 buu saga gokus and train for 100 years he would be 400000x stronger than himself in the buu saga we all know whis isn't that much stronger than goku.Him just going super saiyan is to much for any character made in the series so far.

So basically goku stomps in his base form.

I like to think Goku achieved some absurd, universal level of power + SSJ5 during his 100 years of training. It's only appropriate.

This.

Also, if chronology and power scaling in this series makes any logical sense at all, (cannon or not) SSJ4 should be quite a bit stronger than SSGSS. So by the time he achieved this form i'd speculate he was possibly on par with Whis.

by EoS it's a stomp for Goku.

@yodaprime: Eh we can't really powerscale since GT clearly exists in an alternate universe. GT Goku never met Beerus and Whis, never became a god or did any of that stuff. In this case, we really should go by feats, although in my headcanon Goku is a bit stronger.

perhaps he did? we don't know what he's done during the time skip... DBZ super could just be filling in the blanks.

Shenron was scared stiff that Beerus was even in attendance though, wasn't he? If he's scared of Beerus, Whis should be even worse.

@yodaprime: Toriyama couldn't care less about GT though, he explicitly stated that he was writing these new stories as a continuation of the manga. There's no way all of this is just leading up to GT, and Resurrection 'F' provided far too many inconsistencies for GT to possibly fit in and us to just wink our eyes at it.

Did you guys even watch the show?

1- King Piccolo already 1 shot Shenron

2- Shenron can't do a wish against someone's will

3- Shenron can't kill someone that is more powerful than his creator

In other words, Shenron is pathetic

whiggidy whiggidy whis

The series as a whole is riddled with inconsistencies to be honest. But, i guess i get what you're saying.

Even still i find it highly unlikely that goku was just relaxing for all those years and no new threat bothered him and that GT was the first time he pushed himself since buu. The time alone should presumably allow him the potential to have achieved something beyond SSG and skip over it.

@yodaprime: He was supposed to have been training Uub that whole time.

SSJ4 can't even beat Vegito.

Goku should take this. By the end of GT, Kid Goku absorbs ALL of the dragon balls and then becomes the new Shenron essentially however it doesn`t stop there he goes on to train with Shenron for many years so I think that only means one thing, it should mean that Goku as earth`s protector became something special becoming the most powerful character in the GT series beyond SSJ4 Gogeta, Omega Shenron and Shenron.

GT Goku cannot be scaled from Super Goku. Dragon Ball Xenoverse has already clarified that GT is an "alternate tale" that takes place in another universe from the main cannon. I understand that the validity of a game will probably always be in question when concerned with cannon, but considering AT's close involvement witht he game, I think it carries some weight. And if this is true, then it proves that SSJ4 is not automatically stronger than SSJG.

If that is the case, then where does SSJ4 stack up to SSJG? Well the game gives us a little insight on that with the discussions between the gods and the SSJ4's in game. Basically, they are treated similarly to SSJG. Meaning the game puts them around the same level as SSJG. I wish I could find proofs, but I can't find videos on youtube of the quotes I am looking for. However, I still own the game, so if need be, I will find the proofs irl and post them.

Anyway, so we have a basic grasp of where SSJ4's power lies (depending on how heavily you weight feats and statements from the game); just about SSJG level (at best). Now for EoS GT Goku. The fan speculation states that he's practically a god at this point, however, that is not true. Long story short, there is absolutely no information that suggests he's any stronger than he would be if he trained normally for 100 years. If that is the case, then his power still pales in comparrison to SSJG/SSJGSSJ Goku, let alone the being known as Whis.

Whis god stomps, gives him a lecture, then sends him back to his home universe.

@23dhjyt: I believe Goku would possibly stomp if he workout like DBGT .

Even in DBS by the end of that series Goku and Vegeta should surpass Beerus

In 100 years of workouts Goku base form should be at least his SSJ 3 DBGT level (400 x 400) SSJ 3 Majin Buu Saga

And would become to find a way to transform at a SSJ 5 level (400,000 times) base its 100 SSJ 4 in DBGT .

He could surpass Whis in 10-20 years in DBS .

@phailure: Your being a fanboy now

1.We can assume Goku trained for 100 years is because that's all he does.Look how strong goku is in his life time 100 years extra he Godstomps Whis.Even the gods in dbz can be surpassed.

2.Where does ssj4 stack up even if ssj4 after 100 years of training wasn't enough goku might get ssj5 because AF uses EOS goku.Don't even wank about saying SSG is stronger than ssj5 because that's dumb.

3.Goku fused with shenron he has the dragon balls now if goku trained for 100 years he would be able to make wishes no other guardian could.

@le0nhart: Goku has shenron now what's your point?

Due to a lack of feats on Goku's side and the fact that Shenron was pretty much crapping himself when he saw Beerus I don't see why everyone else wouldn't say Whis.

@mysticmedivh: You just don't understand

Goku has shenron now not kami not dende.

Goku 100 years of training stomps

whiss

So what your saying is end of GT Goku is as strong or stronger than Omega Shenron. That's very impressive but unfortunately Whis is a unique creature who is more powerful than Beerus who made Shenron scared out of his mind so by ABC logic Whis wins. By normal logic Whis has unknown limits we have no idea how far he can travel back in time. He said he'll travel back a few moments to stop Beerus from destroying stars, but we don't know if he traveled back millennia because to him time may not matter or he may be immortal. We don't know how powerful Whis is, plus Whis is the fastest in his Universe so we don't know if Goku will be able to catch him. Also if their are 11 others like Whis we don't know if they created the Universes or if they were the first Sentient beings in their own Universes

i clearly said that Shenron is pathetic

@le0nhart: Goku has shenron now.Goku is far stronger than dende. shenrons wishing power would increase by a bunch.

@hypnos0929: He said he can rewind time only 3 minutes in RoF and he's immortal of course.He lived more than 100 million years.

That is irrelevant since people are claiming that Goku is all powerful now due to shenron even though Shenron is pathetic, so you're kinda going in a loop

@le0nhart: I never said shenron made goku a god like being but do you really think goku after 100 years of training can't beat whis?

knowing saiyans have no limit, Goku becomes god and solos dbz movie verse

@the_caped_crusader: Shenron got killed by King piccolo. Whis murders.

I agree.

I am a fan, but that has nothing to do with it. I was simply stating the facts as given to me by xenoverse. Also, unlike most fanboys, I am reasonable and logical at all times (or at least i try to be) so there is no need to resort to name calling, okay? ^^

1. Of course he trained. I said he trained. And of course the gods could be surpassed. However, Goku even said himself in the movie once he'd reached SSJG that he was frustrated with the form because "he couldn't believe a universe could exist where he couldn't get the power he needed on his own." No matter how much nor how long Goku trained on his own, he never would have gotten to Beerus' level. Or at least he wouldn't have gotten god ki. And even though he DID get SSJG with help, he still lost to Beerus at 70%. Whis is approximately 1.5x stronger than Beerus at 100%. You should see how silly it is to pit pretty much ANYONE from DB, DBZ, or DBGT against Whis at this point right (Heck, even DB Xenoverse for that matter considering that Whis has one of the best ultimate moves in the game)?

2. I would assume probably still around SSJG level or lower considering only SSJ4 GOGETA stands any chance against Beerus lvl wise in Xenoverse. Also, AF is a completely fan made series right? Doesn't that mean it's pure speculation? I know I keep referring to DBX for my comparisons but at least AT was involved in that. Unless this whole thread is merely about speculation and not who would actually be able to win with the evidence given. In which case, I'm out cuz I want no parts of that mess! Lol! xD

3. So? Even if we assumed Goku became the new guardian of the dragon balls and actually made them stronger by doing so, not only would Goku NOT use the dragon balls for frivolous things like improving his training after fighting the shadow dragons; beings born from the built up negative energy from frivolous wishes (or wishes in general), but even if he DID make wishes, he would not wish for anything that would make him any stronger than he could get on his own without extreme circumstances coming into play. That's simply not his style!

So unless EoS GT Goku or DBAF Goku have ever run into Beerus and wished for the method to become a SSJG, he wouldn't use the dragon balls for a needless power up. And as already stated in point 1, no matter how much Goku trained on his own, he would never gain enough ki to reach the realm of THESE particular gods.

Sadly, Whis Godstomps and sends EoS GT/DBAF Goku back home. Maybe, with a small amount of effort. Perhaps 1/10th of his power at best.

@phailure: I see your point but do you believe in hyberbole because majority of the things in dbz are just hyberbole or what they say is true.For example cell saying he can bust a solar system, vegeta being able to destroy earth , the 5 minutes Delema. That's all hyberbole even though daizenshuu stated cell could bust a solar system,any attack from the majin buu saga should of Atleast destroy earth but what do we get nothing.Im pretty sure if goku got 100 million years of training he could stomp beerus and whis hard.In dbz gods aren't even gods kami is a god he is pathetic supreme kai is a god pathetic goku was just using hyberbole he problaby was talking about the form he couldn't reach the power on his own.Even if he train for 100 years he couldn't get the form not the power because that sound utterly ridiculous plus he has his ssj forms and ssj5 if you include it heck he might even have a new technique.

Everyone in DBZ, with the exception of magicians and gods, has the same power-set, literally. Every standard attack in DBZ is powered by ki. If you have just as much ki as your opponent, you will be able to replicate anything they can do.

Powerscaling is completely valid.

I wanna say Goku.

Beata

@23dhjyt:

Hyperbole

hy·per·bo·lehīˈpərbəlē/noun

1. exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

   synonyms:

   exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment,excess, overkill, rhetoric; More

The Daizenshuu confirmed that Cell's kamehameha would've had the power to destroy the solar system. The only reasons why they couldn't actually show it was because of plot reasons (like all of the heroes being wiped out and DBZ would end right there cuz Buu would've been killed too) and because Gohan overpowered it (implying SSJ2 Teen Gohan is a solar system+ buster, but I'm not going there right now). All-in-all, Cell's solar kamehameha would have LITERALLY blown away the solar system. Or at least it had enough power to do so if he'd widened it out. Ergo, since it actually WASN'T an exaggeration, it is not hyperbole.

Vegeta once blew up a planet with little to no effort in the anime. Although this happened in a filler episode, AT confirmed that "DB is the manga AND the anime," therefore, the filler is legit so long as it doesn't clash too heavily with the manga. Plus we have no real reason to believe that Vegeta's attack WOULDN'T have destroyed the earth if it wasn't blocked due to the plot (again, if it actually happened, DBZ would have ended right then and there) and Goku being stronger (planetbuster+ *cough cough*). Again, there is no reason to believe this was an exaggeration, especially since Goku didn't just freaking dodge the damn move and decided to counter it instead because he had no other choice (he could sense the energy in the blast, if it wasn't actually a threat to earth, he would've dodged it just like so many others). Again; not hyperbole.

The 5 minute one is tricky because the fight spanned over 4 hours in the anime and holds the record for longest fight in an anime history (i think it still holds this record at least. They milked the crap out of that. Lol! xD). However, remember how they showed us in the Yamcha vs Saibaman fight in the beginning of the saiyan saga that the fighters were so fast that you could only really detect them by sensing their ki. Even Gohan; a n00b, but still a trained fighter at this time; was unable to see them AT ALL until Piccolo taught him how to sense their ki and track them that way. We all know that DBZ is stupid dumb fast! We have very little reason to believe that Frieza's 5 minute statement was not, in fact, valid. Although I will admit that this is still debatable, until it is otherwise disproven, to me at least, it is still NOT HYPERBOLE (Although I would be willing to concede this point if need ever arose because I'm not completely sure myself).

Even the claims that EoS GT Goku (as ridiculous as some of them are) technically cannot be called "hyperbole" because fans want them to be taken literally. They aren't exaggerating when they say "EoS GT Goku is practically a god" as you are now.

I think the word "hyperbole" gets tossed around a lot simply because certain people just don't want to believe certain things about certain subjects. It is a grossly misused word in debates most of the time because people want a legitimate sounding term to use to disprove something that they don't like. Such a thing is a cowardly tactic, and I suggest that you refrain from engaging in it. ESPECIALLY if your trying to debate DB,DBZ, DBGT, or DBS.

@phailure: Yes your right but dbz does use hyberbole Remeber this moment? Buutenks was gonna destroy earth with his blast goku cuts him In half the blast hits the grown planet doesn't explode http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nnQ34HXvJtE/UhywKbKpeRI/AAAAAAAAKBI/tkVSPEWVcFY/s1600/209.jpg?imgmax=2000

umm thats i nice battle topic. i think whis would win as i dont think so ghost goku had any feats.what do u think @rbt