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#301 Posted by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

"- KS visual illusion does not control the body nor the brain of the victim, that means everyone can move freely or whatever they want

Neither does Genjutsu?"

Genjutsu actually can do those things.

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#302 Edited by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

How does someone touch the sword of a troll king like Aizen???Lol

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#303 Posted by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Izanagi isn't his power though, I thought the arrow specially targeted Yhwach's own power?

Dude your scenario is literally if he had that power, which would make it his...

No Caption Provided

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#304 Posted by UltimateSage (3220 posts) - - Show Bio

@naknoemo00: Ok, then why don't you show me those scans of bleach characters resisting illusion based attacks.

Until then, "Both control five senses - Kyoka suigetsu is featless against anyone with illusion resistance. Sharingan, on the other hand, is not. It can also be used to hypnotize and take opponents out of commission."

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#305 Posted by Chakko (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

1. Except people with TP resistance, also too bad that Genjutsu always works even if the victims looks at a naked girl before the caster hits you with it. I couldn't say the same for KS, LOL. Next.

2. Go to tell this to Yamamoto and Yhwach. Next.

3. Except people with TP resistance, still that's a shitty weak point, and this is was my purpose from the beginning. Find weak points. Next.

4. Except people with TP resistance...and Christ if you're blind you don't need to know that, LMAO. Next.

5. Go to tell this to Aizen himself:

No Caption Provided

Sure, KS is godlike power in Bleach because no one has TP resistance or counters or else...but in Naruto...it's just common Genjutsu. If somethinf is OMGIMPOSSIBLE in Bleach doesn't mean every other fiction on earth should be defenseless against it. Next.

6. Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, Tsukuyomi, basic 3 Tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu, MS Genjutsu, Tayuya's Soud Genjutsu etc. etc.

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#306 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage:

: Ok, then why don't you show me those scans of bleach characters resisting illusion based attacks.

You mean like Byakuya,Rukia ,Lille, Bambeita

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#307 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko said:

@limitlesssigil:

1. Except people with TP resistance, also too bad that Genjutsu always works even if the victims looks at a naked girl before the caster hits you with it. I couldn't say the same for KS, LOL. Next.

2. Go to tell this to Yamamoto and Yhwach. Next.

3. Except people with TP resistance, still that's a shitty weak point, and this is was my purpose from the beginning. Find weak points. Next.

4. Except people with TP resistance...and Christ if you're blind you don't need to know that, LMAO. Next.

5. Go to tell this to Aizen himself:

No Caption Provided

Sure, KS is godlike power in Bleach because no one has TP resistance or counters or else...but in Naruto...it's just common Genjutsu. If somethinf is OMGIMPOSSIBLE in Bleach doesn't mean every other fiction on earth should be defenseless against it. Next.

6. Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, Tsukuyomi, basic 3 Tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu, MS Genjutsu, Tayuya's Soud Genjutsu etc. etc.

I don't understand which of my posts you're responding to, it would be good if you could quote them before each of your responses.

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#308 Posted by Chakko (47 posts) - - Show Bio
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#309 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko:

>says Naruto verse has TP resistance

>Itachi solo's the 99.9% in one on one match while sitting on a chair tsukuyomi

>Madara solos 100% percent of the verse at once using IT

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#310 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko said:

@limitlesssigil:

1. Except people with TP resistance, also too bad that Genjutsu always works even if the victims looks at a naked girl before the caster hits you with it. I couldn't say the same for KS, LOL. Next.

How does this contradict me saying "They wouldn't have knowledge on this?"

2. Go to tell this to Yamamoto and Yhwach. Next.

Yamamoto touched his Zanpakuto to negate the illusion...

3. Except people with TP resistance, still that's a shitty weak point, and this is was my purpose from the beginning. Find weak points. Next.

Again, it's hardly a weakpoint since it can't be exploited by anyone who doesn't have knowledge on it, which is pretty much everyone.

4. Except people with TP resistance...and Christ if you're blind you don't need to know that, LMAO. Next.

Who in Naruto is blind and can actually make use of this lol?

5. Go to tell this to Aizen himself:

No Caption Provided

He used it on every Bleach captain who all have the ability to sense Reiatsu, if it didn't control that sense then it would be completely meaningless, next.

Sure, KS is godlike power in Bleach because no one has TP resistance or counters or else...but in Naruto...it's just common Genjutsu. If somethinf is OMGIMPOSSIBLE in Bleach doesn't mean every other fiction on earth should be defenseless against it. Next.

Narutoverse has no way to counter KS, it's not Genjutsu so they can't just flare their chakra to escape from it or injure themselves, next.

6. Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, Tsukuyomi, basic 3 Tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu, MS Genjutsu, Tayuya's Soud Genjutsu etc. etc.

Show me a scan stating any of these controls the body.

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#311 Posted by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

KS is definitely better than a lot of individual genjutsu but to claim its better than all genjutsu overall is insane.

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#312 Edited by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

Touching his zanpakuto only works at the moment KS is released. Otherwise, everytime aizen cut someone the illusion would end. Yama specifically says that he was able to feel KS' reiatsu.

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#313 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman said:

KS is definitely better than a lot of individual genjutsu but to claim its better than all genjutsu overall is insane.

It's better than every Genjutsu individually

IT - Rarely will have every condition met in a battle for this to happen and it takes time to prepare

Koto - Detectable, massive cooldown, massive chakra drain

Tsukuyomi - Base Sharingan Sasuke was able to break out of it, uses alot of Chakra, makes Itachi go blind

No other genjutsu is worth mentioning.

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#314 Posted by Chakko (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@saxz said:

@chakko:

>says Naruto verse has TP resistance

>Itachi solo's the 99.9% in one on one match while sitting on a chair tsukuyomi

>Madara solos 100% percent of the verse at once using IT

- And that's right. So?

- Bar Sasuke (due to Kekkei Genkai Uchiha's bloodline) and Kakashi (2nd fight). Furthermore you should get some knowledge about Tsukuyomi and MS Genjutsu first.

No Caption Provided

- You know what the hell is Infinite/Mugen Tsukuyomi, riiiight? Also 100% of the verse? So6p Sasuke PS says "hello".

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#315 Posted by deactivated-5c9e122a6bc32 (2290 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: fair point, I concede that argument which wasn't even relevant to the argument lol.

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#316 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman:

I don't think anyone would say that KS is better than all genjutsu..esp the Big 2,infinite Tsukuyomi is miles above KS and itachi Tsukuyomi has a bit of an edge above KS, IMO at least due to its manipulation of time perception. KS could do what Tsukuyomi does ,it will only take longer

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#317 Posted by gabrielbelmont (949 posts) - - Show Bio

1- If you do not have resistance to soul manipulation, you're screwed.

2- Let's suppose that for example, aizen uses KS in sakura and boruto, what happens next?

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#318 Posted by Godren (3788 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz said:

@manimalman:

I don't think anyone would say that KS is better than all genjutsu..esp the Big 2,infinite Tsukuyomi is miles above KS and itachi Tsukuyomi has a bit of an edge above KS, IMO at least due to its manipulation of time perception. KS could do what Tsukuyomi does ,it will only take longer

He threw off Yhwach's sense of time passively witohut him noticing.

No Caption Provided

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#319 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko:

Fine IT solos 99.999 of the TP resistant narutoverse ,if the .99 makes you feel better.

Itachi didn't use Tsukuyomi against kakashi in 2nd fight, get your facts right, he couldn't 30% power and all ,also I could argue Itachi wasn't 100% really that serious against sasuke and didn't want to do permanent psychogical damage but whatever

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#320 Posted by naknoemo00 (172 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: I don't need to show proof of anything, there's already enough proof to support the claim that KS cannot be countered and that is well established in the series multiple time, also a guy who could predict all abilities in all futures and turn the abilities powerless couldn't stop KS from affecting him.

If you hit Yhwach with mangekyo sharingan genjutsu, nothing happens, because Yhwach had already seen himself being hit by it and will turn MS completely powerless, the fact that this couldn't be done to KS further proves it cannot be countered.

You just cannot accept the fact that KS is completely different then Naruto genjutsu, it works and interacts differently, thats your problem.

Want me to further prove my point? At low levels, Ninjas without any TP resistance can be woken out of a genjutsu by poking them out of it and making them aware that they're under a genjutsu, that's how Ninjas first establish their first TP resistance, by being aware and forcing them self out of it.

Thats the difference between Naruto genjutsu and KS, you cannot wake someone up from KS, it doesn't matter how aware you are about it, you wont break free of it, it doesn't even matter if Aizen himself stands with a sign that says "YOU ARE UNDER A SPELL, BREAK OUT OF IT" you still cant break free from it.

You can be freed from Naruto genjutsu even without TP resistance, so the issue here isn't Bleach characters not having TP resistance, it's the fact that KS cannot be broken!!

The only logical argument that could be made for the lack of TP resistance is that Naruto genjutsu would have a bigger and better effect in the Bleachverse and this argument would have a solid ground, but there's nothing logical about TP resistance being able to counter KS.

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#321 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren:

Dude Aizen Time perception throws you off a few hours maybe less, while Itachi throws your Time perception out the window for a lifetime if serious .according to Kakashi it's not that Tsukuyomi can't be dispelled, just that before you do,you might have gotten tortured a hundred times in one second leading to psychological damage

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#322 Posted by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

IT only takes time to prep when its not used by someone with the completely juubi. Obito used it before collecting the 8 and 9 tails resulting in a 15 minute charge time.

Madara and Guys don't have that problem and can activate it whenever.

Even when the nerfed version is used, mindfucking an entire planet at once is more impressive than anything aizen could even dream of.

Koto is only detectable by others, not the victim. KS is also detectable(ichigo mentioned being able to sense when it was being used plus the yama thing). The cooldown depends on the user's chakra. When the caster has even a tiny piece of hashirama's chakra the cool down is only 10 mins. Plus instantly changing a victim's world view and motivations>just showing them some illusions.

Blindness doesnt apply to ems users and and the chakra pool thing is relative. It's explicitly stated that only a sharingan user with itachi's blood(sasuke) can break it. Manipulating a victims sense of time to the point that they instantly die of old age > just showing them some illusions.

Even low level can jutsu can mind control people(itachi control that woman against jiraiya), knock them out, force them to reveal secrets, enter their subconscious ect

KS can't do any of those things.

Aizen's ability manipulate the senses to create illusions is literally the most basic application of genjutsu.

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#323 Edited by TheEmperor95 (1554 posts) - - Show Bio

Tokinada perfectly explains why KS is so dangerous. His battle with the assault squad showcases it do well.

Not to mention the weakness of genjutsu vs the weakness for KS. Genjutsu weakness is much greater. If you have 2 people you can easily get out if it while either KS if you have 2 or more people it doesn't change anything. In fact it makes KS even more dangerous

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#324 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman said:

@limitlesssigil:

IT only takes time to prep when its not used by someone with the completely juubi. Obito used it before collecting the 8 and 9 tails resulting in a 15 minute charge time.

You also have to fly closer to the moon and stare at it for a period of time, such an opportunity is kind of rare in a battle.

Madara and Guys don't have that problem and can activate it whenever.

Even when the nerfed version is used, mindfucking an entire planet at once is more impressive than anything aizen could even dream of.

I agree the AoE of IT is far greater than KS

Koto is only detectable by others, not the victim. KS is also detectable(ichigo mentioned being able to sense when it was being used plus the yama thing). The cooldown depends on the user's chakra. When the caster has even a tiny piece of hashirama's chakra the cool down is only 10 mins. Plus instantly changing a victim's world view and motivations>just showing them some illusions.

You can't sense KS while you're under it to my knowledge. Where was it stated the cooldown is only 10 minutes when you have Hashirama's DNA? I don't remember this. Koto is a 1 person thing, you can have 100's of people under KS at one time.

Blindness doesnt apply to ems users and and the chakra pool thing is relative. It's explicitly stated that only a sharingan user with itachi's blood(sasuke) can break it. Manipulating a victims sense of time to the point that they instantly die of old age > just showing them some illusions.

Madara and Sasuke are the only EMS users, Itachi's Tsukuyomi still causes him blindness. Questionable how canon that novel is due to never having been written by Kishimoto.

Even low level can jutsu can mind control people(itachi control that woman against jiraiya), knock them out, force them to reveal secrets, enter their subconscious ect

KS can't do any of those things.

KS is far more useful in a battle scenario, it essentially makes you invincible due to the enemy never being able to find and attack your real body, they can even make you attack your teammates by making you see them as enemies.

Aizen's ability manipulate the senses to create illusions is literally the most basic application of genjutsu.

This is massive downplay, it's "Perfect hypnosis" calling it equivalent to basic Genjutsu is insulting. It has none of the drawbacks that Basic Genjutsu has, none of the ways to break out of it that Basic Genjutsu has.

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#325 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman:

Aizen's ability manipulate the senses to create illusions is literally the most basic application of genjutsu.

Yeah but what's not so basic is that it is impossible to dispel for your entire lifetime,has city wide AOE ,no time limits and almost no drawbacks.and when used with intelligence can accomplish anything any advanced genjutsu can

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#327 Posted by Chakko (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko said:

@limitlesssigil:

1. Except people with TP resistance, also too bad that Genjutsu always works even if the victims looks at a naked girl before the caster hits you with it. I couldn't say the same for KS, LOL. Next.

How does this contradict me saying "They wouldn't have knowledge on this?"

2. Go to tell this to Yamamoto and Yhwach. Next.

Yamamoto touched his Zanpakuto to negate the illusion...

3. Except people with TP resistance, still that's a shitty weak point, and this is was my purpose from the beginning. Find weak points. Next.

Again, it's hardly a weakpoint since it can't be exploited by anyone who doesn't have knowledge on it, which is pretty much everyone.

4. Except people with TP resistance...and Christ if you're blind you don't need to know that, LMAO. Next.

Who in Naruto is blind and can actually make use of this lol?

5. Go to tell this to Aizen himself:

No Caption Provided

He used it on every Bleach captain who all have the ability to sense Reiatsu, if it didn't control that sense then it would be completely meaningless, next.

Sure, KS is godlike power in Bleach because no one has TP resistance or counters or else...but in Naruto...it's just common Genjutsu. If somethinf is OMGIMPOSSIBLE in Bleach doesn't mean every other fiction on earth should be defenseless against it. Next.

Narutoverse has no way to counter KS, it's not Genjutsu so they can't just flare their chakra to escape from it or injure themselves, next.

6. Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, Tsukuyomi, basic 3 Tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu, MS Genjutsu, Tayuya's Soud Genjutsu etc. etc.

Show me a scan stating any of these controls the body.

1. Do you know what "TP Resistance" means, don't you?

2. And Yhwach?

3. In Bleach? Sure. KS is godlike power...in Naruto? Naaah. TP resistance and several counters.

4. Two names? Revived Madara and Kabutochimaru. Then everyone with low TP resistance can break KS simple visual illusion, of course.

5. *Sigh* are you against what Aizen has stated? Then sure, if you want to pull a fan theory or a fan fiction...i love fan fiction, for real, but that's not how CV (or any other site like this) works.

6. Just because poor Bleachverse has no TP resistance nor counters doesn't mean that nobody from every manga/comic cannot break/counter it. Geez.

7.

No Caption Provided

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Do you want something else?

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#328 Edited by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: thats kinda my point though. KS is only advantages of basic genjutsu is that can last a lifetime,be reactivated at will, and doesn't dispel when the victim is struck.

Those are all great advantages but the actual illusionary power is nothing impressive.

As for AoE, its just line of sight, which is standard for any optical genjutsu. There are plenty more genjutsu that can be triggered by sound, proximity, physical sensation etc.

Im not trying to say KS bad or anything. It's definitely better than plenty of individual genjutsu,Just not better than genjutsu as as whole.

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#329 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko said:

@limitlesssigil said:
@chakko said:

@limitlesssigil:

1. Except people with TP resistance, also too bad that Genjutsu always works even if the victims looks at a naked girl before the caster hits you with it. I couldn't say the same for KS, LOL. Next.

How does this contradict me saying "They wouldn't have knowledge on this?"

2. Go to tell this to Yamamoto and Yhwach. Next.

Yamamoto touched his Zanpakuto to negate the illusion...

3. Except people with TP resistance, still that's a shitty weak point, and this is was my purpose from the beginning. Find weak points. Next.

Again, it's hardly a weakpoint since it can't be exploited by anyone who doesn't have knowledge on it, which is pretty much everyone.

4. Except people with TP resistance...and Christ if you're blind you don't need to know that, LMAO. Next.

Who in Naruto is blind and can actually make use of this lol?

5. Go to tell this to Aizen himself:

No Caption Provided

He used it on every Bleach captain who all have the ability to sense Reiatsu, if it didn't control that sense then it would be completely meaningless, next.

Sure, KS is godlike power in Bleach because no one has TP resistance or counters or else...but in Naruto...it's just common Genjutsu. If somethinf is OMGIMPOSSIBLE in Bleach doesn't mean every other fiction on earth should be defenseless against it. Next.

Narutoverse has no way to counter KS, it's not Genjutsu so they can't just flare their chakra to escape from it or injure themselves, next.

6. Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, Tsukuyomi, basic 3 Tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu, MS Genjutsu, Tayuya's Soud Genjutsu etc. etc.

Show me a scan stating any of these controls the body.

1. Do you know what "TP Resistance" means, don't you?

Narutoverse doesn't have TP Resistance rofl, they have Genjutsu resistance, it's not the same thing and can't be generalized to all of TP.

2. And Yhwach?

What about Yhwach?

3. In Bleach? Sure. KS is godlike power...in Naruto? Naaah. TP resistance and several counters.

Genjutsu Resistance* And they have no counters to TP outside their verse.

4. Two names? Revived Madara and Kabutochimaru. Then everyone with low TP resistance can break KS simple visual illusion, of course.

How is Revived Madara or Kabuto blind? Kabuto can hide his eyes but he wouldn't do this without knowledge on KS

5. *Sigh* are you against what Aizen has stated? Then sure, if you want to pull a fan theory or a fan fiction...i love fan fiction, for real, but that's not how CV (or any other site like this) works.

It's not a fan theory, it's factually proven in the Manga. He uses KS on multiple captains who have the ability to sense Reiatsu, what aren't you understanding here.

6. Just because poor Bleachverse has no TP resistance nor counters doesn't mean that nobody from every manga/comic cannot break/counter it. Geez.

Show me feats for Naruto characters breaking out of TP that isn't Genjutsu

7.

No Caption Provided
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Do you want something else?

What do any of those scans prove?

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#330 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko:

Two names? Revived Madara and Kabutochimaru. Then everyone with low TP resistance can break KS simple visual illusion, of course.

Everyone can break out of KS,???? How da fuq,do elaborate I beseech you

Revived madara and kabuto can't break out of KS, if they are blind there weren't in KS to begin with as they can't meet it's activation requirement

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#331 Posted by gabrielbelmont (949 posts) - - Show Bio

the only way to get out of KS is if you have resistance to soul manipulation, it has nothing to do with TP.

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#332 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@gabrielbelmont said:

the only way to get out of KS is if you have resistance to soul manipulation, it has nothing to do with TP.

Exactly, and resisting Genjutsu by causing pain or bursting your chakra doesn't work against KS or TP in general, so that entire resistance is useless.

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#333 Edited by Undre (3828 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman: all genjustu is pretty much the same. Except kotoamatsukami and IT.

But like i said KS only has one weakness while genjustu has several. KS last forever,genjustu doesn't,KS affects the dead and spirits genjustu cant. KS can trick you into attacking your enemy only kotoamatsukami can do that. Anyone under KS wont notice unlike other genjustu.

All that should put above genjustu really. It's a lot more efficient

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#334 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@gabrielbelmont:

Actually have the bleach cast have strong resistance to soul manipulation and still can't break out of KS

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#335 Posted by Chakko (47 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

1. *Epic Facepalm*...what a bad way to end our discussion..."GeNjUtSu rEsIsTanCe iS nOt TP rEsisTanCe roflroflroflrofl". Dude, are you serious?

2. I don't know...when Yhwach stabbed Aizen with his own hand he broke the illusion so...and how funny! Aizen got stabbed by Yhwank even if the old man was under visual illusion. LOL i guess...

3. Read point 1...also are you saying KS works on every manga/comics verse but Genjutsu can't due to muh bias? Nice "truth rejection".

4. ....Have you ever read Naruto? Do you who is Madara, right?...Okay seriously...are you trolling now or what?

5. And Naruto manga proves that Kaguya can erase and create dimensions with stars and planets, yet someone (Bleachkudos) is against this fact. C'mon dude, i posted a scan where Aizen explains how KS works. Nobody in Bleach can counter nor resist at poor, simple visual illusion. Saying otherwise IS fan theory or, commonly, bullshit.

6. Genjutsu = TP....HELLOOOOOO- now i know that you're trolling hard, LMAO. It's because KS can't stand a chance against Genjutsu...or just pure and simple hate against Narutoverse?

7. ..............................................................I don't know...that Santa Claus exists maybe???

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#336 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko said:

@limitlesssigil:

1. *Epic Facepalm*...what a bad way to end our discussion..."GeNjUtSu rEsIsTanCe iS nOt TP rEsisTanCe roflroflroflrofl". Dude, are you serious?

I'm saying bursting your chakra and causing pain to yourself doesn't remove any TP outside of Naruto so that resistance is meaningless, are you that ignorant?

2. I don't know...when Yhwach stabbed Aizen with his own hand he broke the illusion so...and how funny! Aizen got stabbed by Yhwank even if the old man was under visual illusion. LOL i guess...

Can you show scans of this?

3. Read point 1...also are you saying KS works on every manga/comics verse but Genjutsu can't due to muh bias? Nice "truth rejection".

Essentially yes, unless they have resistance to a form of TP like KS, which the Naruto verse doesn't, again they can't break out of a form of TP that doesn't rely on Chakra.

4. ....Have you ever read Naruto? Do you who is Madara, right?...Okay seriously...are you trolling now or what?

Yes, but why would Aizen even need to use KS against Blind Madara? He 1 shots him with ease without even using his Zanpakuto.

5. And Naruto manga proves that Kaguya can erase and create dimensions with stars and planets, yet someone (Bleachkudos) is against this fact. C'mon dude, i posted a scan where Aizen explains how KS works. Nobody in Bleach can counter nor resist at poor, simple visual illusion. Saying otherwise IS fan theory or, commonly, bullshit.

The fact that you literally just said Kaguya is star level, clearly demonstrates the type of CV users I'm debating with, delusional fanboys.

6. Genjutsu = TP....HELLOOOOOO- now i know that you're trolling hard, LMAO. It's because KS can't stand a chance against Genjutsu...or just pure and simple hate against Narutoverse?

Resisting Genjutsu doesnt = Resisting TP....HELLOOOOO- This is so basic it's amazing.

7. ..............................................................I don't know...that Santa Claus exists maybe???

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#337 Edited by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: those weakness dont apply to all genjutsu, higher level genjutsu cant be broken by simple chakra disruption and several genjutsu can't be broken through pain(like bringer-of-darkness and steaming-multistoried-building).

How long jutsu lasts varies, the genjutsu sasuke used on danzo was weak and only lasted a few minutes while the genjutsu obit used to control yagura lasted for years.IT can last an eternity.

Tricking you into attacking allies is really basic stuff. Itachi casually was going to make deidara blow himself up with a basic sharingan illusion. Unlike KS though , genjutsu can outright control someone's actions like obito to yagura, jigen to katasuke, itachi to the women in the hotel.

As for affecting the dead, we've seen edo tensei zombies be affect affected by genjutsu.

Yama noticed and ichigo could feel when KS was activated.

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#338 Posted by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman:

As for AoE, its just line of sight, which is standard for any optical genjutsu.

No it's not just line of sight, Remember Aizen at the beginning of series was able to leave his dead body at sereitei's mortuary, while he went to deal with other stuffs miles away, and his dead body just kept laying there till he came back to dispel it, while talking with unohana 30 episodes later

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#339 Posted by gabrielbelmont (949 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I'm going to ask you a question: aizen uses KS on a ninja. now the question I ask is:

1- How will he know that he has been affected by KS?

2- How will it come out of this?

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#340 Edited by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@chakko:

Dude the least you could do is have good knowledge of your favorite series you so hyped about.

Genjutsu is released by disrupting the chakra network,your opponent is controlling, thereby taking back control of your chakra network from your opponent.

No-one outside of narutoverse mindmanipulates using chakra networks.e.g Jean grey or Charles Xavier x-men. You can flare your chakra all you want,you aren't escaping,because they aren't playing with your chakra.. If they can break out by sheer willpower then thats another issue

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#341 Posted by Abc_voltage (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman: jigen wasn’t the one to put katasuke it was ao who did it

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#342 Posted by KingogKings777 (2172 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman said:

@limitlesssigil:

Blindness doesnt apply to ems users and and the chakra pool thing is relative. It's explicitly stated that only a sharingan user with itachi's blood(sasuke) can break it. Manipulating a victims sense of time to the point that they instantly die of old age > just showing them some illusions.

Madara and Sasuke are the only EMS users, Itachi's Tsukuyomi still causes him blindness. Questionable how canon that novel is due to never having been written by Kishimoto.

Please don't start that debate again.

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#343 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingogkings777 said:

@limitlesssigil said:

@manimalman said:

@limitlesssigil:

Blindness doesnt apply to ems users and and the chakra pool thing is relative. It's explicitly stated that only a sharingan user with itachi's blood(sasuke) can break it. Manipulating a victims sense of time to the point that they instantly die of old age > just showing them some illusions.

Madara and Sasuke are the only EMS users, Itachi's Tsukuyomi still causes him blindness. Questionable how canon that novel is due to never having been written by Kishimoto.

Please don't start that debate again.

What debate? The Novel wasn't written by Kishimoto lol, there's no debate to be had, that's factual.

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#344 Posted by UltimateSage (3220 posts) - - Show Bio

You heard it here folks, every bleach characters is resistance to genjutsu just because.

"Both control five senses - Kyoka suigetsu is featless against anyone with illusion resistance. Sharingan, on the other hand, is not. It can also be used to hypnotize and take opponents out of commission."

Yhwach doesnt have tp resistance so I don’t see what's impressive about catching him in a illusion.

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#345 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage said:

You heard it here folks, every bleach characters is resistance to genjutsu just because.

If you really want to play like that then show me Genjutsu working on a spirit, I'll wait.

"Both control five senses - Kyoka suigetsu is featless against anyone with illusion resistance. Sharingan, on the other hand, is not. It can also be used to hypnotize and take opponents out of commission."

Yhwach doesnt have tp resistance so I don’t see what's impressive about catching him in a illusion.

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#346 Edited by Saxz (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage:

Dude I told you before, several bleach characters has shown resistance to mind manipulation and illusion creation.Byakuya,Rukia,Mask de masculine, Yachiru(by extension kenpachi), Lille.And KS potentially fodderizes these ppl

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#347 Edited by ManimalMan (842 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: normally I'd agree that we shouldn't trust anything not written by the original author. However, this novel was part of the "Naruto Light Novel Project" which along "Naruto New Era Opening Project" was overseen by kishimoto and meant to set up the world of boruto.

The project included manga side stories like sarada trying to find her dad and mitsuki's back story as well as The Last:Naruto The Movie(dumb title) and the boruto movie, which are canon.

The novels are currently being used as source material for the boruto manga and anime by ukyo kodachi, the guy who is now in charge of the franchise and his written some of these novels himself, dude also co-wrote the boruto movie.

So im incline to accept them as canon as long as nothing is directly contradicted.

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#348 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman said:

@limitlesssigil: normally I'd agree that we shouldn't trust anything not written by the original author. However, this novel was part of the "Naruto Light Novel Project" which along "Naruto New Era Opening Project" which was overseen by kishimoto and meant to set up the world of boruto.

The project included manga side stories like sarada trying to find her dad and mitsuki's back story as well as The Last:Naruto The Movie(dumb title) and the boruto movie, which are canon.

The novels are currently being used as source material for the boruto manga and anime by ukyo kodachi, the guy who is now in charge of the franchise and his written some of these novels himself, dude also co-wrote the boruto movie.

So im incline to accept them as canon as long as nothing is directly contradicted.

The reason I consider them not canon is because they do directly contradict Kishimoto, it's stated in the Original series that Genjutsu can't kill a person, however as shown in the Novel, Itachi kills with Tsukuyomi, this is my reasoning along with the Novel not being written by Kishimoto.

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#349 Posted by UltimateSage (3220 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: Then it wouldn't be a problem to post some scans, right?

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#350 Edited by UltimateSage (3220 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: Two can play at that.

Show me KS working on ninjas with chakra or it working on pure chakra(bujuus). I'll wait.

Until then KS=fodder genjutsu.