Avatar image for rikuyamaha
#151 Posted by RikuYamaha (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto fans- Don’t know how KS works

Bleach fans- Wanking KS

This thread in a nutshell.

this.

Avatar image for naknoemo00
#152 Posted by naknoemo00 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

KS wins handsdown when basing your judgement on unbiased on panel feats.

Naruto genjutsu wins (according to Naruto fanboys) when basing your judgement on your own based headcannon.

This is the debate in a nutshell.

Avatar image for tetsukage
#153 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@naknoemo00: huh? I've read through this entire thread, and not any significant KS feat was posted. Or on the same level as the higher end Genjutsu.

I need some citation for these claims my man.

Online
Avatar image for silentnightz
#154 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: Yes, I meant it requires chakra from the caster, not tht the person being influenced needs to have chakra.

Genjutsu messes with ur SENSES. Doesn’t allow long distance communication, and doesn’t depend on the actual mind of either the caster or the victim. It’s not TP

Avatar image for silentnightz
#155 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@maestromage: thts exactly what he’s doing and I’ve explained thts not TP

Avatar image for tetsukage
#156 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: it completely fucks with you're mind.

Kakashi got stabbed for 3 days straight all within a instant.

A girl lived an entire life time within a picosecond

Sasuke was forced to watch his family die over 100,000 times all within an instant.

KS effects just the senses, Genjutsu goes beyond that and does real DMG the mind

Online
Avatar image for naknoemo00
#157 Posted by naknoemo00 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: I dont have to, there is no point, entirety of Bleach manga is a feat for KS itself, KS been raping the entire universe from it's first apperance until the end of Bleach where it couldn't even be countered by a being that could literally see all future realities, knew every possible outcome, could change and counter every single outcome and literally turn of every ability making them powerless.

KS has never been countered in any form or shape other then holding the blade which is just a temporarily counter which requires you to hold the blade, you're back to being under its spell when you let go of the blade, it's been confirmed by both multiple statements and on panel feats that KS cannot be countered by any means neccesary, it's impossible.

Naruto genjutsu doesn't have feats that comes close to this, at all.

Naruto fans comes with two counter arguments, both are equally ridiculous, one is describing the details and potent of a Naruto genjutsu and that makes it more powerful then KS which is ridiculous, Soifons has a ability that two-shots, sounds great right? Well, in reality, it doesn't do shit to someone of higher reiatsu then her.

Same logic applies here, what has Naruto genjutsu accomplished in reality? Where are the high end feats? I'd love to know.

And the second argument is Bleach characters have no TP resistance which is just ridiculous due to many factors and this argument is completely based of biased headcannon.

Avatar image for tetsukage
#158 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@naknoemo00: well if you can't prove it can't prove that's that.

Genjutsu has better feats

Online
Avatar image for godren
#159 Posted by Godren (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

Genjutsu is utterly useless unless the other person has a chakra network.

Avatar image for naknoemo00
#160 Edited by naknoemo00 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: That's great, you've just established you're just another troll, typical Naruto fanboy without any counter arguments.

You've lost, bye.

Avatar image for tetsukage
#161 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@naknoemo00:

ok well I already posted some solid feats you're the one who hasn't.

So bye

Online
Avatar image for tetsukage
#162 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/westwood_trevor/blog/naruto-why-genjutsu-works-on-people-without-chakra/132475

Online
Avatar image for godren
#163 Posted by Godren (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/westwood_trevor/blog/naruto-why-genjutsu-works-on-people-without-chakra/132475

Why do people keep posting this blog?

You need a chakra network for it to work and everyone in Naruto has one and chakra.

Avatar image for tetsukage
#164 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Because it counters that argument.

Online
Avatar image for notcensored
#165 Posted by NotCensored (563 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: it literally says in this scan that "it controls the 5 senses to control chakra" not "it controls chakra to control the 5 senses"

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for naknoemo00
#166 Edited by naknoemo00 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: What feats? I have literally not seen a single counter argument or feat by you, where are they? In your imaginary world? Is that the place where you posted your imaginary feats? Delusional.

How about you start with posting one high end genjutsu feat done in Naruto, I'll even help you out because you're so bad at this, there's Itachi's izanami against Kabuto for example, thats a good feat. You have anything else?

Avatar image for tetsukage
#167 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@naknoemo00: I'm not wasting my time with a child who can't debate with using personal attacks I suggest reading there's feats less than 10 post up.

Also flagged

Online
Avatar image for godren
#168 Posted by Godren (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

@notcensored: Genjutsu is an ability that affects the 5 senses of the target by manipulating the Chakra that flows in the target's cranial nerves to cast illusions on the target. Chakra flows through their bodies through a system called Keirakukei which is linked to all their organs.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for gabrielbelmont
#169 Posted by gabrielbelmont (794 posts) - - Show Bio

For God's sake, KS is not telepathy, I do not know where the naruto fanboys got it.

Online
Avatar image for kasya_carey
#170 Posted by kasya_carey (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao illusions can alter reality now?

Avatar image for notcensored
#171 Posted by NotCensored (563 posts) - - Show Bio
@godren said:

@notcensored: Genjutsu is an ability that affects the 5 senses of the target by manipulating the Chakra that flows in the target's cranial nerves to cast illusions on the target. Chakra flows through their bodies through a system called Keirakukei which is linked to all their organs.

i know how genjutsu works but its literally explained that it works on the 5 sense then chakra not the other way around

Avatar image for naknoemo00
#172 Posted by naknoemo00 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: I actually helped you with your argument, I literally gave you a feat that would help your cause and you still wont debate me back.

If that's not enough, you're even trying to get me banned now, while still completely ignoring my arguments, you're actually hillarious.

Avatar image for notcensored
#173 Posted by NotCensored (563 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for tetsukage
#174 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@naknoemo00: see how you didn't throw a petty insult that post.

Do that every post and people might take you seriously.

Online
Avatar image for tetsukage
#175 Edited by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasya_carey: yes, I can't spell it without looking it up but the one Danzo had and Obito.

Online
Avatar image for godren
#176 Posted by Godren (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:

@notcensored: Genjutsu is an ability that affects the 5 senses of the target by manipulating the Chakra that flows in the target's cranial nerves to cast illusions on the target. Chakra flows through their bodies through a system called Keirakukei which is linked to all their organs.

i know how genjutsu works but its literally explained that it works on the 5 sense then chakra not the other way around

Dude, you literally can't effect the senses without a chakra network. Why do you think they have 2 different circulatory systems in their bodies? The scan I posted legit explains that is targets the Keirakukei which is another layer of vessels that chakra travels through.

Avatar image for notcensored
#177 Posted by NotCensored (563 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:
@notcensored said:

i know how genjutsu works but its literally explained that it works on the 5 sense then chakra not the other way around

Dude, you literally can't effect the senses without a chakra network. Why do you think they have 2 different circulatory systems in their bodies? The scan I posted legit explains that is targets the Keirakukei which is another layer of vessels that chakra travels through.

Dude 5 senses first chakra next its literally even explained to us that way, and IT works on people even if they don't have chakra which is a genjutsu.

Avatar image for tetsukage
#178 Edited by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: that argument is countered in that link I sent you.

I don't understand why you're fighting against it so hard.

Online
Avatar image for gabrielbelmont
#179 Posted by gabrielbelmont (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: that argument is countered in that link I sent you.

I don't understand why you're fighting against it so hard.

a question: would genjutsu work in cthulhu?

Online
Avatar image for godren
#180 Posted by Godren (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:
@notcensored said:

i know how genjutsu works but its literally explained that it works on the 5 sense then chakra not the other way around

Dude, you literally can't effect the senses without a chakra network. Why do you think they have 2 different circulatory systems in their bodies? The scan I posted legit explains that is targets the Keirakukei which is another layer of vessels that chakra travels through.

Dude 5 senses first chakra next its literally even explained to us that way, and IT works on people even if they don't have chakra which is a genjutsu.

affects the 5 senses of the target by manipulating the Chakra that flows in the target's cranial nerves to cast illusions on the target.

Literally every person in the Narutoverse has chakra, you won't be alive without it.

Avatar image for naknoemo00
#181 Posted by naknoemo00 (163 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: Please just stop, you're a troll and nothing else. You still havn't contributed anything, you're still just answering with irrelevant jibberish and I'm still waiting for a counter argument, I don't care about your character or how you conduct a debate, I want you to post counter arguments and nothing else.

Avatar image for abc_voltage
#182 Edited by Abc_voltage (74 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasya_carey: yes the jutsu that does it is izanagi, it allows the caster to basically rewrite reality in that moment to avoid a death or serious blow, it does have its drawbacks though like you sacrifice the eyesight of the eye that casted the jutsu and it’s duration varies from person to person it was based off of hagoromos creation of all things

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Avatar image for tetsukage
#183 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for silentnightz
#184 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: what you just described were all effects of the Tsukuyomi, one of the most powerful genjutsu. The downside to the Tsukuyomi is how brief it actually lasts, the amount of chakra used to perform it, and how effective it is against opponents with immense energy. It’s really cool, but KS beats it in terms of actual versatility. Requires basically no energy, last for 100 years easily, without upkeep, and it can’t be broken by anyone other than the caster.

And over 100,000 times? Really? You’re not milking tht just a bit...? Tht kind of strain would be more than enough to kill Sasuke

Avatar image for tetsukage
#185 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: it was actually more than that, I'm not milking it

And it makes the person effected lose the will to live, that makes better than KS IMO.

You don't see KS doing the things Genjutsu can do, look at koto, Tsu, Izanami, Izanagi, IT, etc. KS can't just can't measure up to stuff like this

Online
Avatar image for godren
#186 Edited by Godren (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage said:

@godren: that argument is countered in that link I sent you.

I don't understand why you're fighting against it so hard.

a question: would genjutsu work in cthulhu?

Hell no, as a matter of fact anyone who looks at him would commit suicide in Naruto.

Avatar image for silentnightz
#187 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: show me it was more than tht, I don’t remember tht being the case.

Have you checked out what Aizen has done to Momo? I’d say her will to live was gone.

The 5 genjutsu you just listed are the only ones tht even come close to KS level abilities. Now the flaws:

Kotoamatsukami: can’t be used again for 10 years

Tsukuyomi: requires a lot of chakra, can be survived if the caster doesn’t gauge durability properly

Izanami: particularly tricky to get just right, can be broken by the victim, loss of Sharringan

Izanagi: varies in power depending on caster, loss of Sharringan

Infinite Tsukuyomi: HELLISH to cast, nigh impossible, never gonna land it spur of the moment. Requires Six Paths powers(Senjutsu and Sharrinnegan). Likely to result in a crazy lady bursting from body, resulting in DEATH

Etc: there are no others tht compare.

Now the flaws in KS:

......right, THERE ARE NONE. Easy to use, requiring very little to no energy, easy to cast and set to last, no catastrophic drawbacks. Can be escaped by touch the blade but uh.....fat chance. Now pinpoint the flaws in my logic, or admit defeat

Avatar image for tetsukage
#188 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: those surpass KS their not near it.

Can you provide any feats suggest Aizen could tank any of those jutsu?

Online
Avatar image for tetsukage
#189 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: KS doesn't have draw backs but it doesn't do anything close to altering time and Reality.

Online
Avatar image for silentnightz
#190 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: I’d say the MANY drawbacks kinda levels them....

No, I don’t have proof that Aizen could tank those genjutsu. Have any proof tht any wielded of those genjutsu could get out of KS?

Avatar image for tetsukage
#191 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: Yes I do actually, Sasuke and Itachi used Genjutsu on each other to escape another TP based attack.

Shairgan has been stated time and time again that it sees through illusions, and KS doesn't do anything nearly as potent as Tsu which Sasuke broke through.

Online
Avatar image for silentnightz
#192 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: altering the perception of time is basic for any genjutsu, yes KS can do this as well. Time is perceived through the 5 senses, primarily sight. Control someone’s visual perception and u can control their time perception. Blind ppl suffer heavily from this effect.

If KS can make one believe a fly is a dragon, or a swamp a meadow, I’d say their perception of reality is warped. It can even control mass and form perception, meaning it can essentially replicate the effects of Izanagi and overwrite one’s apparent ‘death’

Avatar image for tetsukage
#193 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: that's not what I meant.

KS can't make a person live an entire life within a trillionth of a second (picosecond)

KS can't take a person who's just been killed alter reality and bring that person back like nothing happened.

KS isn't rewriting death.....

KS is better than the basic stuff, but it lacks the feats to contend with the higer stuff, you said it yourself Aizen has no way to counter stuff like Tsu or Koto or Izanami

Online
Avatar image for silentnightz
#194 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: Bad example to go with, mate. Itachi and Sasuke were breaking down basic genjutsu, something the Sharringan is known for.

I’d wager that being UNBREAKABLE is fairly potent. If a poison were incurable and effective against even omnipotent beings, and wouldn’t wear away regardless of how far or how strong or long an opponent has been under it, you’d be a fool to argue it’s not potent.

Thts exactly my point, Sasuke broke the Tsukuyomi, and Kakashi survived it, albeit he needed medical treatment. KS cannot be broken by any means of force, and will ALWAYS produce the desired effects

Avatar image for silentnightz
#195 Posted by silentNightz (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: yes, in fact, it can. Aizen not showing a desire to do so does not mean he is incapable of it. It’s just time perception.

It won’t revive the truly dead, but it can be used twice without the cost of one’s eyes.

And yet I see nothing alluding to any Naruto character breaking KS....🤔

Avatar image for tetsukage
#196 Edited by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: KS stopped working on Yhwach for a unknown reason...

No one I Bleach has resistances to it, so saying it's unbreakable is a fallacy.

I can shoot a thousand rabbits and say my bullet is unstoppable, truth is I just haven't used it against something with the strength to stop it.

You keep bringing up how long it last and that fact that a bunch of people with zero feats failed to break if..... Where's the feats of it doing crazy things like Genjutsu has?

Online
Avatar image for man_of_miracles
#197 Posted by Man_of_Miracles (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: Its only never been broken against characters that have 0 feats against illusions or TP. You can't assume that it would continue to be that effective against characters with feats of breaking out of illusions/TP.

Avatar image for ultimatesage
#198 Edited by UltimateSage (1987 posts) - - Show Bio

Both control five senses - Kyoka suigetsu is featless against anyone with illusion resistance. Sharingan, on the other hand, is not. It can also be used to hypnotize and take opponents out of commission.

Read the blog if you don't seem to understand how genjutsu works, it will help this move on faster.

Avatar image for tetsukage
#199 Posted by Tetsukage (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz:

.1) post feats of Aizen doing it then.

2.) It rewrites death.. Danzo was dead more than once.

3.) Except you haven't posted any feats that take KS some spectacular threat so yes it could see through it.

Online
Avatar image for gabrielbelmont
#200 Posted by gabrielbelmont (794 posts) - - Show Bio

KS has nothing to do with TP, I do not know where these naruto fanboys invent it.

Online