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#51 Posted by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael said:

@godren:

It doesn't matter, his mind is that of a human, and he's comparable to any other SR.

You're trying way to hard to make this fact disappear

"His mind is like a human" what does that even mean, that he isn't a dumb animal lol?

All you need is one scan, which I know doesn't exist so now you're jumping through all sort of loops.

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#52 Posted by Undre (3177 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael: Aizen KS is based on spirit matter

Reishi (霊子, Spirit Particles) is the main component material of Souls and all spiritual matter.

Overview

Reishi composes the spiritual bodies of Hollows and Shinigami, and the two planes of existence, Hueco Mundo and Soul Society in their entirety.[1][2] Reishi is invisible to mortals, with the exception of spiritually aware ones such as the Quincy;[3] they can, however, still interact with normal matter and produce physical effects.[4] It is noted, however, that Reishi and atoms do not mix well.[2]

Genjustu only works on kishi which id the material world

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#53 Posted by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight:

You have me confused with someone else, I've been using the higher end stuff even in the other thread.

Get you're shit straight before jumping on someone's case.

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#54 Posted by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@ezrael: Aizen KS is based on spirit matter

Reishi (霊子, Spirit Particles) is the main component material of Souls and all spiritual matter.

Overview

Reishi composes the spiritual bodies of Hollows and Shinigami, and the two planes of existence, Hueco Mundo and Soul Society in their entirety.[1][2] Reishi is invisible to mortals, with the exception of spiritually aware ones such as the Quincy;[3] they can, however, still interact with normal matter and produce physical effects.[4] It is noted, however, that Reishi and atoms do not mix well.[2]

Genjustu only works on kishi which id the material world

Already disproved this, Ichigo has a human mind. Comparable to anyone in Bleach.

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#55 Posted by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:
@ezrael said:

@godren:

It doesn't matter, his mind is that of a human, and he's comparable to any other SR.

You're trying way to hard to make this fact disappear

"His mind is like a human" what does that even mean, that he isn't a dumb animal lol?

All you need is one scan, which I know doesn't exist so now you're jumping through all sort of loops.

Where's your scan?

You're not that bright, you're literally trying everything to avoid the truth.

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#56 Posted by Undre (3177 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael: Bleach verse would be more like the reaper death seal not edo lol

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#57 Posted by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael:

You have me confused with someone else, I've been using the higher end stuff even in the other thread.

I do not and you were not.

Get you're shit straight before jumping on someone's case.

My "shit" is straight, kiddo. I'm simply pointing out how weak your ability to defend your arguments is.

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#58 Posted by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@ezrael: Bleach verse would be more like the reaper death seal not edo lol

What is with you people today? First Valor and now you, I never claimed that.

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#59 Posted by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael:

You have me confused with someone else, I've been using the higher end stuff even in the other thread.

I do not and you were not.

Get you're shit straight before jumping on someone's case.

My "shit" is straight, kiddo. I'm simply pointing out how weak your ability to defend your arguments is.

Quote me saying basic and KS are the same, I said they "do the same shit" but that was it. I never said KS was weaker or on par with basic Genjutsu and I've always used the higher end stuff.

You have me confused with someone else, and no you don't have your shit straight, hop of my nuts.

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#60 Posted by InvadedTBD (1536 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight: watch out with that dude all he does is flip flop,throw insults and flag when losing a debate it's best to avoid him all together.

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#61 Posted by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael:

Quote me saying basic and KS are the same, I said they "do the same shit" but that was it.

The thread is gone, my dude. It had turned into something less than desirable.

You have me confused with someone else, and no you don't have your shit straight, hop of my nuts.

Two people have now identified you as someone who was arguing this, but I have you confused for someone else? Right, I get it now. It doesn't matter, though, my point has already been made.

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#62 Edited by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd said:

@valorknight: watch out with that dude all he does is flip flop,throw insults and flag when losing a debate it's best to avoid him all together.

For the 3rd time, I never flagged you, stop crying and move on.

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#63 Posted by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio

@valorknight: watch out with that dude all he does is flip flop,throw insults and flag when losing a debate it's best to avoid him all together.

I've been flag banned before, and the moderators almost always fix it. I've made my point either way, so I'm done talking to him.

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#64 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

@leothegreatest said:

I’ll just repost this here.

In the Novel Shusui stated that his Mangekyou allowed him to side step some of the requirments for genjutsu but this only seems exclusive to Shusui’s Kotoamatsukami since Itachi’s MS and Sasukes EMS were still required to make eye contact with Kabuto to use genjutsu so that means it also needs to affect the flow of chakra to work.

KS has no such limits and can work on supernatural sensing abilities and one’s sense of time.

You can keep on posting as many times as you want, since you don't seem to understand it yourself.smh

The requirement that koto step sides is the eye sight requirement one, since you need eye contact for sharingan genjutsu to work. Koto doesn't need eye contact to work.

Kotoamatsukami is a powerful but subtle mind-controlling genjutsu that belonged to the Mangekyou Sharingan of Uchiha Shisui. The Sharingan’s eye of hypnosis holds the power to dominate the will of its target with that of the caster’s at its highest level, suppressing the victim’s consciousness to force them to do whatever the caster desires. Kotoamatsukami is that very ability taken to even greater heights.

It controls the target by implanting an idea into their mind and reshapes their thoughts and decisions with false experiences to make them believe that the idea is entirely their own. The victim would obey Shisui’s command without realising they were being manipulatedwhile perfectly rationalizing their future decisions based that implanted thought. Kotoamatsukami is not even an ongoing genjutsu; it takes only seconds for the illusion to warp the victim’s mind to follow the caster’s bidding after it has been activated.

Once the command takes root, the jutsu ends without leaving any trace of its existence within their chakra system to detect or counter, so the caster does not need to maintain it. And unlike practically every other genjutsu cast by the Sharingan, eye contact is not a necessary requirement to effect an individual. As long as they are within the eye’s line of sight, they are a potential target.

No. You confused me saying the “some of the requirements“ as me not understanding the ability.

If you continued reading you would’ve seen that I acknowledged Kotoamatsukami is able to “slightly” (as stated in the novel) side step both requirements.

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#66 Posted by Undre (3177 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael: lol did you not read it might be similar but its make of a difference form of matter. Not a material mind

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#67 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Nope, every time there's a kaguya/juubidara vs bleach character, you bleach folks would jump up and say IT is a nonfactor as it did nothing to edo tensei who should be the same as the bleach characters.

But now we're talking about genjutsu bleach characters are not the same as edo tensei because why?

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#68 Edited by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd: @valorknight:

You two are some crybaby clowns, you don't even know who you're arguing with getting me confused with someone else.

1.) I never claimed that shit and you can't prove it.

2.) the only person of this site I've flagged was Mr Viking for making bait threads.

3.) I expect some troll shit from Invaded because he's done it before, but for a 11k veteran to be this dense is shocking.

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#69 Posted by InvadedTBD (1536 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael: see this is what I am talking about a few minutes ago you said you've never flagged anyone on CV now you claim you flagged MrViking. Why would I be inclined to believe anything you say when you lie so often?

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#70 Posted by Undre (3177 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Because they are made of rashi(spirit matter) edo is still a material body

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#71 Posted by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: Nope, every time there's a kaguya/juubidara vs bleach character, you bleach folks would jump up and say IT is a nonfactor as it did nothing to edo tensei who should be the same as the bleach characters.

But now we're talking about genjutsu bleach characters are not the same as edo tensei because why?

I don't give a shit about what others tell you.

IT on panel has shown it doesn't work on things that are essentially lifeless, edo is just a vessel for the spirit just like a gigai which it failed to work against.

On the other hand Koto has worked on the dead, but has never been shown working directly on spirits. Clearly Koto is superior outside of range.

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#72 Posted by deactivated-5c60ecae36801 (745 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael: see this is what I am talking about a few minutes ago you said you've never flagged anyone on CV now you claim you flagged MrViking. Why would I be inclined to believe anything you say when you lie so often?

I flagged his entire post because it was bait, not his comments.

I never flagged your comments, I could do because you're running around crying and spreading lies but I still haven't

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#73 Posted by InvadedTBD (1536 posts) - - Show Bio

@ezrael: no one is crying just caught you in a lie and trust me your the only person on CV that thinks im a troll.

I asked you nicely to not tag me.

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#74 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage said:
@leothegreatest said:

I’ll just repost this here.

In the Novel Shusui stated that his Mangekyou allowed him to side step some of the requirments for genjutsu but this only seems exclusive to Shusui’s Kotoamatsukami since Itachi’s MS and Sasukes EMS were still required to make eye contact with Kabuto to use genjutsu so that means it also needs to affect the flow of chakra to work.

KS has no such limits and can work on supernatural sensing abilities and one’s sense of time.

You can keep on posting as many times as you want, since you don't seem to understand it yourself.smh

The requirement that koto step sides is the eye sight requirement one, since you need eye contact for sharingan genjutsu to work. Koto doesn't need eye contact to work.

Kotoamatsukami is a powerful but subtle mind-controlling genjutsu that belonged to the Mangekyou Sharingan of Uchiha Shisui. The Sharingan’s eye of hypnosis holds the power to dominate the will of its target with that of the caster’s at its highest level, suppressing the victim’s consciousness to force them to do whatever the caster desires. Kotoamatsukami is that very ability taken to even greater heights.

It controls the target by implanting an idea into their mind and reshapes their thoughts and decisions with false experiences to make them believe that the idea is entirely their own. The victim would obey Shisui’s command without realising they were being manipulatedwhile perfectly rationalizing their future decisions based that implanted thought. Kotoamatsukami is not even an ongoing genjutsu; it takes only seconds for the illusion to warp the victim’s mind to follow the caster’s bidding after it has been activated.

Once the command takes root, the jutsu ends without leaving any trace of its existence within their chakra system to detect or counter, so the caster does not need to maintain it. And unlike practically every other genjutsu cast by the Sharingan, eye contact is not a necessary requirement to effect an individual. As long as they are within the eye’s line of sight, they are a potential target.

No. You confused me saying the “some of the requirements“ as me not understanding the ability.

If you continued reading you would’ve seen that I acknowledged Kotoamatsukami is able to “slightly” (as stated in the novel) side step both requirements.

Ok.

Are you talking about sharingan genjutsu needing chakra to work? Cuz it doesn't:FOR THE FIFTH TIME TODAY

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5c97780a71ae4 (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@invadedtbd: @ezrael: can u both stay on topic pls i'd rather this not get derailed like the last thread

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#76 Posted by InvadedTBD (1536 posts) - - Show Bio

@notcensored: my apologies I asked him not to tag me and he did. I will ignore him from now on like I usually do.

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#77 Posted by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio

bruh did he just deactivate?

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#78 Posted by deactivated-5c97780a71ae4 (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: did he just delete his account?

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#79 Posted by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio
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#80 Posted by InvadedTBD (1536 posts) - - Show Bio

Really he deleted his account lol. Good riddance, must of felt guilty.

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#81 Posted by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren: what the hell is koto? Is it kotoamatsukami, cuz that is called the ultimate genjutsu which directly goes for the mind.

And the "genjutsu wouldn't work on bleach characters cuz they're spirits" thing you got going on is dumb since I could do the same and say "KS wouldn't work on the Bijuus since they're pure chakra therefore it wouldn't work on a jinchuurikis as well" or "KS never worked on people with chakra", case in GG KS. See what I mean:/

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#83 Edited by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: That's a relatively good point, I'll give you that. I personally do think that Genjutsu could work on spirits (especially spirits as they are portrayed in Naruto), but I don't remember it having the feats for that.

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#84 Edited by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio
@ultimatesage said:

@godren: what the hell is koto? Is it kotoamatsukami, cuz that is called the ultimate genjutsu which directly goes for the mind.

And the "genjutsu wouldn't work on bleach characters cuz they're spirits" thing you got going on is dumb since I could do the same and say "KS wouldn't work on the Bijuus since they're pure chakra therefore it wouldn't work on a jinchuurikis as well" or "KS never worked on people with chakra", case in GG KS. See what I mean:/

  1. Won't work on Bijuu cause they're made of energy.
    1. So are Shinigami and all spirits, they made of highly condensed Reishi which is energy made from spiritual matter.
  2. Won't work on Jin's.
    1. Because of the same partner thing? that's a weakness for Genjutsu which KS doesn't have. I could argue Shinigami have a stronger bond with their Zanpakuto. At least for Ichigo it's been shown he can be possessed by this Zanpakuto spirit, or even resurrected from death.
  3. Never worked on people with Chakra.
    1. This doesn't matter at all, energy isn't a requirement for the effect to take place it just goes for the senses directly.

The only thing KS has failed to work on was someone who was omnipresent (Seireitei or Soul Society I can't remember but he was a former Kenpachi) essentially since he was merged with the very air itself in a novel.

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#85 Posted by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio

Clearly Genjutsu would work on Fullbringers since they're pretty much enhanced humans also earthbound Quincy like Uryu.

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#86 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: That's a relatively good point, I'll give you that. I personally do think that Genjutsu could work on spirits (especially spirits as they are portrayed in Naruto), but I don't remember it having the feats for that.

I try:)

I mean genjutsu uses yin release which is spiritual energy( correct me if I'm wrong)

And there are spirit based jutsu in naruto.

No Caption Provided

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#87 Posted by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Can't deny that. It'd be better if we had some concrete feats, though (the light novels might have examples of that, but I've never read them).

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#88 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:
@ultimatesage said:

@godren: what the hell is koto? Is it kotoamatsukami, cuz that is called the ultimate genjutsu which directly goes for the mind.

And the "genjutsu wouldn't work on bleach characters cuz they're spirits" thing you got going on is dumb since I could do the same and say "KS wouldn't work on the Bijuus since they're pure chakra therefore it wouldn't work on a jinchuurikis as well" or "KS never worked on people with chakra", case in GG KS. See what I mean:/

  1. Won't work on Bijuu cause they're made of energy.
    1. So are Shinigami and all spirits, they made of highly condensed Reishi which is energy made from spiritual matter.
  2. Won't work on Jin's.
    1. Because of the same partner thing? that's a weakness for Genjutsu which KS doesn't have. I could argue Shinigami have a stronger bond with their Zanpakuto. At least for Ichigo it's been shown he can be possessed by this Zanpakuto spirit, or even resurrected from death.
  3. Never worked on people with Chakra.
    1. This doesn't matter at all, energy isn't a requirement for the effect to take place it just goes for the senses directly.

The only thing KS has failed to work on was someone who was omnipresent (Seireitei or Soul Society I can't remember but he was a former Kenpachi) essentially since he was merged with the very air itself in a novel.

1: Then genjutsu would work fine according to what you said. Madara was able to genjutsu kurama who is made of chakra which is energy judt like how according to you bleach characters are all so made of energy. Glad we can agree:)

2: I always wanted to ask you guys why bleach fans believe shinigami and Zanpakuto are the same as jinchuurikis and bijuus? From what I know shinigamis and their Zanpakutos are made of the same soul so basically the same one soul in a body( if you get one, you get the other kind of thing), while jinchuurikis and their bijuus are two different entity with one being sealed in the others body.( you get one, the other one is still there just like with bee vs sasuke fight). Correct me if I'm wrong tho:/

3: Genjutsu also goes directly for the sense, the enemy doesn't need chakra for it to work. Again, *sighs* just read the link(it will help you and me)

Who in bleach is omnipresent?

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#89 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

So a telepathic attack aimed at the physce can't effect something simply because 'it's a spirit' the attacks not aimed at the physical body so what relevance does it have? Do people even attempt to think past go on this website?

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#90 Edited by Godren (3680 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage said:
@godren said:
@ultimatesage said:

@godren: what the hell is koto? Is it kotoamatsukami, cuz that is called the ultimate genjutsu which directly goes for the mind.

And the "genjutsu wouldn't work on bleach characters cuz they're spirits" thing you got going on is dumb since I could do the same and say "KS wouldn't work on the Bijuus since they're pure chakra therefore it wouldn't work on a jinchuurikis as well" or "KS never worked on people with chakra", case in GG KS. See what I mean:/

  1. Won't work on Bijuu cause they're made of energy.
    1. So are Shinigami and all spirits, they made of highly condensed Reishi which is energy made from spiritual matter.
  2. Won't work on Jin's.
    1. Because of the same partner thing? that's a weakness for Genjutsu which KS doesn't have. I could argue Shinigami have a stronger bond with their Zanpakuto. At least for Ichigo it's been shown he can be possessed by this Zanpakuto spirit, or even resurrected from death.
  3. Never worked on people with Chakra.
    1. This doesn't matter at all, energy isn't a requirement for the effect to take place it just goes for the senses directly.

The only thing KS has failed to work on was someone who was omnipresent (Seireitei or Soul Society I can't remember but he was a former Kenpachi) essentially since he was merged with the very air itself in a novel.

1: Then genjutsu would work fine according to what you said. Madara was able to genjutsu kurama who is made of chakra which is energy judt like how according to you bleach characters are all so made of energy. Glad we can agree:)

The Tailed Beast have an inherent weakness to the the Sharingan, still this only a thing for Shinigami and they're still spirits. At best you could maybe say Koto will work.

2: I always wanted to ask you guys why bleach fans believe shinigami and Zanpakuto are the same as jinchuurikis and bijuus? From what I know shinigamis and their Zanpakutos are made of the same soul so basically the same one soul in a body( if you get one, you get the other kind of thing), while jinchuurikis and their bijuus are two different entity with one being sealed in the others body.( you get one, the other one is still there just like with bee vs sasuke fight). Correct me if I'm wrong tho:/

This technically is correct and also incorrect, Zanpakuto are separate entity but they're also a part of the Shinigami or whatever since they're an extension of themselves.

3: Genjutsu also goes directly for the sense, the enemy doesn't need chakra for it to work. Again, *sighs* just read the link(it will help you and me)

I'm aware of that blog Westwood wrote a decade ago, but it's also stated everyone has Chakra in the world of Naruto just not everyone knows how to use it for example Kawaki has no idea how to kneed chakra or use Ninjutsu. It's specifically stated it manipulates the chakra flowing through their cranial nerves.

Azashiro Kenpachi, he is locked away in Muken with Aizen.

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#91 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Can't deny that. It'd be better if we had some concrete feats, though (the light novels might have examples of that, but I've never read them).

I was scrolling through the manga and found this, apparently people in Naruto can still use their chakra even when they're spirits.

The SOSP gramps bringing back the souls of the kages to help him perform jutsu:

No Caption Provided

Just thought it was cool:)

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#92 Posted by ValorKnight (12350 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Posted by silentNightz (393 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Genjutsu works on Bleach characters, no denying tht. Anyone who does is reaching.

At the same time, anyone claiming Bleach characters don’t have resistance to genjutsu is also reaching hard. Bleach has genjutsus in it, not just Zanpakutou with genjutsu abilities, but actual genjutsu techniques. If they have casual exposure and experience with it, assume they have a way to counter it as well as resist it

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#94 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: I've never seen a bleach character resist a tp attack at all. Do you have scans?

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#95 Posted by Undre (3177 posts) - - Show Bio
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#96 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: Madara got transformed into kaguya by zetsu, so what are you talking about?

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#97 Posted by Undre (3177 posts) - - Show Bio
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#98 Posted by UltimateSage (2590 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@ultimatesage: He using the part sasuke cutt in half

Where are you getting this from?

He doesn't even mention madara here.

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#99 Posted by silentNightz (393 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: For clarity sake, whats tp? still a bit new to this

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#100 Posted by silentNightz (393 posts) - - Show Bio

@deactivated-5c60ecae36801: Ichigo isn't exactly comparable to 'anyone else in Bleach'. He's a huge anomaly, it's kinda been the running theme of the series...He has shown resistance to nigh onto everything in the show including DEATH. I'm not saying he can pull himself out of every genjutsu, but ur gonna need a damn good one to hold him.