@noone1996: Well Genesis has clowned enemies who are not as arrogant as Thor to make mistakes but those whose fighting style is almost the same as his own, unlike Count Nefaria whose constant victories against teams are owed to his versatility and not his brute force, which I believe that defines Genesis over Sephiroth and the rest of the extremely powerful nigh-planetary Final Fantasy VII characters.
@banecapital: Count Nefaria didn't dominate due to Thor's arrogance or because of versatility. He tanked Thor's best hits without any problems and quite literally overpowered him. This was all when Nefaria just received his powers and didn't even know what he was truly capable of. He also wrecked a team of Avengers that included Captain America, Black Panther, Iron Man, Vision, Wonder Man, Wasp, Yellowjacket, and Scarlet Witch in that same issue. What versatility are you even talking about? He has heat vision, strength, flight, and durability. That's really it and he hasn't done much with his heat vision.
@noone1996: Well just like Count Nefaria was unaware of his potential, so was Thor on a greater degree when he didn't use his full strength in striking Count Nefaria. Thor's holding back to avoid being destructive as Final Fantasy characters are not hesitating to be in a much darker storyline than the Marvel one. And since Count Nefaria is a mafia lord, not using his powers when he's not needing them is done because he thinks that his goons are more effective in getting him what he wants because despite being superior than most superheroes, he's still not superior than the planetary armies that Genesis has fought. Count Nefaria can fight armies as big as Final Fantasy's but not before he's overwhelmed by all of them stacked against him, even without superheroes. So being destructive can never benefit his interests while not working with his mafia associates, similarly to Genesis relying on others despite being so powerful among them.
@banecapital: Just because the entire landscape wasn't destroyed from their fight, that doesn't mean Thor was massively holding back. Thor amplified his strike with lightning and was immensely surprised when Nefaria caught and no-sold Mjolnir:
He even said that fighting Nefaria was comparable to fighting the Destroyer armor.
@noone1996: Just like it's shown in the comic book scan you've posted, which totally validates my statements, Thor is using more of his lightning than his physical strength to strike Count Nefaria, so Count Nefaria stopping his hammer by his strength as you claimed is contradictory, but this is a durability feat instead as I've said, and Thor used a moderate portion of his magic and a small part of his lifting power to strike Count Nefaria because of Thor's reluctance to harm his allies from the Avengers, which was proven to be correct by Count Nefaria's eventual defeat. Count Nefaria is indeed superior to Thor but due to his versatility rather than physical strength or magical potency, and even Count Nefaria is not superior than the armies fought by Genesis and the other top tier Final Fantasy characters, as shown by his reliance on the mafia which he controls as its leader.
@banecapital: You have no evidence that Thor was holding back. Lack of damage to an environment is not proof of that. As for the armies you keep talking about, how are they impressive? All you've really said is Nefaria fought a holding back Thor, but that point became irrelevant as soon as you admitted he was in fact superior to him.
@noone1996: Yeah of course Count Nefaria is superior to Thor, but wouldn't you like further development of his character that is sidelined because of people like you claiming that he's OP? And since Genesis is one of the most powerful characters of a franchise that's considered one of the best, then Genesis should be evenly matched with a character that's not supposed to be OP in a franchise that needs to develop by making use of characters such as him rather than recycling the same material.
@banecapital: Dude, this is the 3rd time I've gotten a notification for this comment you made. Why the hell would I respond to you about how Count Nefaria's "development", or whatever the hell you are talking being, is "ruined" by me scaling him to Thor? What difference does that make in this debate? How is that relevant at all? The reason I never responded to your strange comment is because I realized that this discussion became less about actual comparison of feats and logic and more about you complaining about me scaling and not respecting characters that probably have far less impressive feats. There. You got your response from me. You can stop deleting your comment and then reytyping it over and over now.
@noone1996: Yeah that's right. You ignored the feats that are expected for a Final Fantasy character such as Genesis and scaled Count Nefaria to Thor. You're right about the coversation being pointless but I'm not actually intending to be involved in it since I've created this forum but I'm merely defending my thread for the same reasons you've mentioned. And I wonder if you knew that I've also made this:
@tifalockhart: Well what's Zack's greatest trait? Being skilled and disciplined? Well would that describe Count Nefaria more than many other things that he is? I think Genesis is a fitting opponent of Count Nefaria since both of them have different abilities but they've got their weaknesses unlike Zack who didn't have any and that's why he could be a match for Cloud, Sephiroth and Genesis whose flaws rendered them vulnerable to Zack despite the fact that all of them where known to be Zack's superiors.
@tifalockhart: Well there was an arguement comparing Count Nefaria to Thor in some comments preceding your own and Thor's definitely not lacking in speed compared to any Final Fantasy character.
@tifalockhart: No Genesis is not only superior to Cloud but also Sephiroth. He's just unstable which is quite the opposite of Zack who could stand up against the other soldiers despite being the weakest just because of his awesome personality which was surprisingly stable unlike the whiny Cloud, the vengeful Sephiroth and the confused Genesis.
@tifalockhart: We've got Zack, Cloud, Sephiroth and Genesis in that order. We're starting from maximum fighting skills and stability and minimum energy and versatility and as we're going through that order, maximum and minimum are reversed as they're following opposite directions. Am I wrong?
@banecapital: That's a debate for another time.
The important issue is that Genesis or Cloud is not on the level of Marvel's Thor or anyone of a comparable powerlevel and yes that includes Nefaria. This is a mismatch in the Count's favor due to greatly better physical strength, durability which makes me question whether Genesis could even do damage to him, and speed which is the only issue (other than telepathy in Sephiroth's case) a Marvel top tier could possibly have with a top tier Final Fantasy character.
I don't particularly care for Marvel comics and I'm as big a Final Fantasy fan as it gets but let's be honest here.
@tifalockhart: Assuming that all Final Fantasy characters are nerfed for the sake of gameplay mechanics and are even subject in huge retcons for the upcoming remake (which by the way I want you to predict when it's final part is gonna get released after such a long time of waiting and many horrible games that ruined such a great franchise), don't you think that Genesis would not be lacking in fighting skills against Nefaria even if they're indeed much inferior to Zack's just like you said?
@banecapital: Of course Genesis has better fighting skills than Count Nefaria. That's not going to compensate for his vastly inferior physical strength and durability. The Count is probably faster too.
I'm all for FFVII battlethreads after the remake is released. But it's premature to make them because this board goes by feats. I was going to make Tifa vs. Crush but it'd be like making a thread like DCEU Darkseid vs. MCU Thanos when one side has established feats and the other does not at the moment.
I'm trying to offer constructive criticism here.
@tifalockhart: Yeah I agree with your constructive criticism so that's why I beg you to tell me when you think the remake will be over and how many games you think it's gonna be comprised of. And do you think that the story is gonna change a little bit, obviously not talking about power levels which I'm sure they're gonna get much higher since superheroes have become much more popular than they used to be, which I think is the reason DragonBall Super got so ridiculous in buffing its characters, so do you predict that Genesis is going to appear and when?
@banecapital: I predict it will have more cutscenes proving that FFVII characters have blatant superpowers as Advent Children did. I wouldn't be surprised if it was released in installments, possibly even three parts going for full retail price each. However, I don't think Genesis' return will happen anytime soon. It will be more of a dangling plot line for quite some time if it ever gets resolved.
In the meantime, it might be more prudent to use characters from FFVII who have showcased more quantifiable canon feats such as Cloud rather than an obscure one who didn't star in a movie or have notable cutscene feats until we get more material to work with.
@tifalockhart: Yeah but how about expanding the FFVII universe since they've failed to established another one with all those failed installments over the last ten years? The 15th game was a bit better but the homosexuality presented over a heroic character is totally disgusting. I think most people think that the 7th game is by far the best although they like the 6th almost as much because of Kefka being a much better villain than Sephiroth. So why not develop Genesis as Sephiroth's replacement as the main villain? I know that Sephiroth is known to be significantly more evil than Genesis but he's a saint compared to Kefka.
@tifalockhart: If you disagree about the last Final Fantasy games being bad, then I've got no intention to argue with you and I respect your opinion. But I want to talk about what do you think is the best business strategy for Square Enix to make profit and that's why I would like to hear your predictions because I'm really curious and I don't know what they have in mind so I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts. And about the homosexuality thing, sorry if you took it as an insult. But in fact, since Republicans are opposed to same-sex marriage and they're consistently targeted by media propaganda in order to ensure their loss in the 2020 Presidential elections, I'm wondering if the long waited Final Fantasy VII remake was intentionally delayed and probably even hastily released just for the sake of opposing Trump. And if you hate me for being a Republican, please respect my political views as you want other people to respect yours. I'm not Trump and we should be on the same side as ordinary citizens and victims of corporate interests, whether they serve Trump or Square Enix.
@tifalockhart: Let's agree to disagree? It reminds me of this:
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