General Grievous vs Anakin Skywalker

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#1  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

Pre-2008! General Grievous slugs it out with an all too eager opponent -- Anakin Skywalker.

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  • You can only draw from material published before 2008
  • General Grievous as of Revenge of the Sith, the senior novelization takes priority over all other accounts
  • Anakin Skywalker as of Obsession
  • Petrenaki Arena
  • In character

Who wins and why?

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citgo

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The Eager ONE.

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AnakinVader99

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#4  Edited By AnakinVader99

Finally well Anakin in character has used the force against people most notably Durge as a first instinctual thing twice so there is a very high probability Anakin will just use a force push on Grievous.

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So there is a very high probability Anakin will just use a force push on Grievous. Anakin also has a notable similar level of strength by breaking stone pre-prime something I am not sure Grievous has really replicated

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He is also confirmed to be quicker than Obi-wan,Kit Fisto and Plo Koon which is very notable as all 3 are on the Jedi council and the best of the Order

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Anakin has insane feats of power such as the dreadnought feat and has manipulated machinery before

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Something Grievous is clearly vulnerable to

Because all there on the bridge was one in the Force, from the gross structure of the ship itself to the quantum dance of the electron shells of individual atoms—and because, after all, the nerves and muscles of the bio-droid general were creations of electronics and duranium, not living tissue with will of its own—it was just barely possible that with exactly the right twist of his mind, in that one vulnerable quarter of a second while Grievous was distracted, flinching backward from a spray of flame hot enough to burn even his armored body, Obi-Wan might be able to temporarily reverse the polarity of the electrodrivers in the general's mechanical hands. Which is exactly what he did.

Durasteel fingers sprang open, and two lightsabers fell free.

Revenge of the Sith novel

And has beaten Asajj Ventress and multiple sith apprentices of Count Dooku in the video game SW the new droid army which included a doppelganger Dooku who beat Obi-wan this was when Anakin was still a padawan. Asajj also has enough skill and speed to land a force push on Grievous during their duel.

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Overall Anakin has enough strength,speed, skill and power to beat Grievous I see Anakin, in my opinion, coming out the victor 6/10 this is not a stomp as Grievous has enough skill to hold his own and could take Anakin off guard more than once but I am confident Anakin is smart enough to use the Force on Grievous and is fast and strong enough to avoid or stonewall Grievous' assault

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Lord_Tenebrous

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GangOrca

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Probably Anakin

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Kirkseven

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Anakin but its closer than the Obi Wan fight with GG.

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Greysentinel365

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#8  Edited By Greysentinel365

Legends Anakin is Yoda level. Even at this point. Grievous doesn’t have a prayer.

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Void_Reborn

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Ah finally. I've been looking forward to this matchup for a long time.

Still Grievous. Anakin is outmatched in all physical categories and, based on Grievous's performance against Windu, likely outskilled as well. Skywalker doesn't have Obi-Wan's stylistic advantage and the environmental hindrance that usually exists in Grievous's duels is gone. He is free to go about his wide space-taking style as he pleases.

Anakin's only chance is to go for a massive force crush right at the start of the fight, which I doubt he can pull off before Grievous is on top of him and it's also not in-character for him to perform. Anakin will most likely get into sabers or Grievous will engage first, resulting in an extended duel where Skywalker is pushed on the defense, something he is not overly used to, where he will ultimately be cut down.

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G_Race

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#10  Edited By G_Race

@anakinvader99:

Excellent reasoning, I am forced to agree with theses points you provided. I suspect you had these clips in your back pocket for just such an occasion, but this matters not. Great post!

6/10 at this stage in the game seems fair for Skywalker Sr. Grievous regularly scores slightly higher than Durge does in the overall mythos & Anakin dispatched Dugre via force use with moderate difficulty. With knoweledge I see Anakin going hard on force abuse, and damaging Grievous before he can close distance enought to overwhelm Skywalker. I must say Obsession was a great comic arc.

To the community: Does 2D 2003 Grievous stand that little of a chance? I am unsure where exactly to place him. I like Anakin 6/10, but if someone has solid Grievous reasons maybe I can budge? I mean he did give Mace a run for his money, and he regularly hangs at least in the moment vs Dooku..

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Richard96

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Going with Anakin.

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Void_Reborn

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#12  Edited By Void_Reborn

@g_race: I've had this discussion with the same person you're agreeing with before. It evolved into a very, very lengthy debate. But generally my arguments against most of what he presented are along the lines of this:

Anakin's 'strength' feat against Ventress is quite an outlier because that would mean Ventress's hand's durability to not give in is stronger than that of the concrete beneath her feet. Not only does that not make sense but it's also obvious that this scene is purposefully dramatic to suit the sequence of events, that being Anakin tapping into the dark side. Anakin, based on consistent feats, is not on the same level of strength as Grievous, someone who can crush skulls simply out of irritation, level entire durasteel control consoles just by leaning on them, tear open duranium plated elevator doors, kick Jedi Masters so hard they turn into high velocity projectiles that collapse structures they connect with etc.

Anakin is most definitely one of the fastest Jedi around, Durge is not wrong. It wouldn't be hard to believe he is faster than Fisto, Plo or Obi-Wan. However this doesn't make him any faster than Grievous, who is also already confirmed as much faster than Obi-Wan in the ROTS novel, when Kenobi himself admits that he isn't as fast as Grievous, who, when ramping up his attack speed, can output 21 strikes per second, something I doubt Anakin can match even if amping himself to the limit. Grievous has also already stomped Council members on the level of Fisto or Plo as per the Hypori fight, despite that they were a little tired; but they did have ample time to regain their stamina and compose themselves.

What else do we have that suggests Grievous is faster than Anakin? Just compare their encounters with the same opponent, Durge, who by his own statement, is fast enough to see Jedi moving in slow motion:

Anakin, while still holding his lightsaber, gets absolutely battered by Durge in close quarters combat. Sure, he's fast, but Durge is obviously faster. The moment Durge gets close enough he starts punching the living sh*t out of the Chosen One and manhandling him.

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Compared to Grievous? Right after having two lightsabers plunged into his back, being knocked through several statues and museum sculptures/exhibits and electrocuted (Grievous is much more vulnerable to electricity being nearly entirely composed of electronics and metal which conducts it well) by Durge's electric bolars still manages to blitz Durge easily when he composes himself:

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Anakin is fast. But he's not that fast.

There is nothing that suggests Anakin can pull off a one shot force ability before Grievous gets to him and that is also not in character for him to do. Skywalker has always preferred lightsaber combat and finishing a duel off in that manner. It is very likely he will engage that way here as well, where he is honestly outmatched in all stats and skill, because even Mace Windu was being pushed back by Grievous in LoE:

Grievous is a Mace level duelist. Perhaps better. He was hindered in 3 ways during that duel.

Feet magnetised to the ground (restricted to almost no movement), narrow environment disallowing proper use of his attack methods and also he wasn't able to use all 4 of his lightsabers, only 2 of them, effectively halving his attack output and attack speed. Also his unpredictability (Grievous attacks from numerous different angles when he is in quad blade mode, which is very difficult to defend against). Mace had Grievous with 3 disadvantages and they still stalemated. Mind you, by the end of the fight, Grievous was stalwartly advancing against Mace Windu. Meaning he was slowly beginning to gain the upper hand. This is why Mace began to get worried and decided he must end the fight now before it prolongs. This is also despite the fact that Fisto had just finished off the Magnaguards and was coming to aid Windu. Windu still chose to end the fight rather than keep it up to allow Kit to assist him. It really says something about Legends Grievous's lightsaber capabilities.

Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long.

Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries. Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad—the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled.

To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...

The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.

The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.

Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous—onetime courageous commander of sentient troops—realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous—current commander of droids and other war machines—wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades.

Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep.

Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself?

Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind.

-- Labyrinth of Evil

Here is a more thorough analysis of the entire duel by KillBilly:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-misconceptions-mace-vs-grievous-2075709/

Seeing as it took quite possibly the greatest Soresu practitioner in all of the Jedi's history to hold up against GG's tireless assault and finally dismantle him in a duel, in spite of the fact that Grievous was hindered by a narrow catwalk in the ROTS duel, I don't see how Anakin is going to be able to defend himself for long. He doesn't have the stylistic advantage against Grievous like Obi-Wan did and his tendency to bear his strength down onto his opponents (such as Dooku) with his mastery of Djem So when they are vulnerable to such attacks wouldn't apply here whatsoever. Grievous has Anakin beat in pure skill, strength, speed and the like, so I never see this duel evolving to a point where Skywalker takes the lead. He will be quickly forced onto the defensive and, much like Shaak Ti on Hypori, be unable to withstand it for very long until he collapses under the pressure.

Grievous wins.

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Void_Reborn

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@takenstew22: I already removed you from the tag list. This tag list is frequently copied though and the original one still has your tag in it lmao.

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subline

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#15  Edited By subline

Gonna quote the whole thing so people can see.

but why tho

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TakenStew22

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#16 TakenStew22  Online

@subline said:
@takenstew22 said:

Gonna quote the whole thing so people can see.

but why tho

Because they keep tagging me despite asking not to multiple times.

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El_mago

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Legends Anakin is Yoda level. Even at this point. Grievous doesn’t have a prayer.

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ProfessorRespect

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@takenstew22: Do you have to tag a tag list (thereby tagging everyone again) of about 20+ people just to moan about being on it? lol.

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TakenStew22

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#19 TakenStew22  Online

@takenstew22: Do you have to tag a tag list (thereby tagging everyone again) of about 20+ people just to moan about being on it? lol.

Read the comment above Stalin.

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect said:

@takenstew22: Do you have to tag a tag list (thereby tagging everyone again) of about 20+ people just to moan about being on it? lol.

Read the comment above Stalin.

Don't see what the problem is

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TakenStew22

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#21 TakenStew22  Online

@takenstew22 said:
@professorrespect said:

@takenstew22: Do you have to tag a tag list (thereby tagging everyone again) of about 20+ people just to moan about being on it? lol.

Read the comment above Stalin.

Don't see what the problem is

Multiple different people keep tagging me to these. That's why I quoted that list.

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ProfessorRespect

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#22  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@takenstew22: So just tag them individually then? Is it that hard to click a few more buttons?

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TakenStew22

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#23  Edited By TakenStew22  Online

@professorrespect said:

@takenstew22: So just tag them individually then? Is it that hard to click a few more buttons?

Why would I do that instead of tagging an already existing list of people? I can't even remember names.

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect said:

@takenstew22: So just tag them individually then? Is it that hard to click a few more buttons?

Why would I do that instead of tagging an already existing list of people?

Because the second method tags random people FOR NO REASON, which is the exact reason why you are complaining in the first place

Seems pretty iconic lol

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#25  Edited By TakenStew22  Online

@professorrespect said:

Because the second method tags random people FOR NO REASON, which is the exact reason why you are complaining in the first place

I'm tagging them incase they make any future SW threads tagging me. They keep copying and pasting the same list.

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@professorrespect said:

Because the second method tags random people FOR NO REASON, which is the exact reason why you are complaining in the first place

I'm tagging them incase they make any future SW threads tagging me. They keep copying and pasting the same list.

They'll prob do it even more now because it gets you salty lol

And you still tagging dudes who don't use the tag list, so irony still there

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Wushu59

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#27  Edited By Wushu59

Darth Vader wins

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BoutaTakeAnL

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Finally well Anakin in character has used the force against people most notably Durge as a first instinctual thing twice so there is a very high probability Anakin will just use a force push on Grievous.

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So there is a very high probability Anakin will just use a force push on Grievous. Anakin also has a notable similar level of strength by breaking stone pre-prime something I am not sure Grievous has really replicated

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He is also confirmed to be quicker than Obi-wan,Kit Fisto and Plo Koon which is very notable as all 3 are on the Jedi council and the best of the Order

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Anakin has insane feats of power such as the dreadnought feat and has manipulated machinery before

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Something Grievous is clearly vulnerable to

Because all there on the bridge was one in the Force, from the gross structure of the ship itself to the quantum dance of the electron shells of individual atoms—and because, after all, the nerves and muscles of the bio-droid general were creations of electronics and duranium, not living tissue with will of its own—it was just barely possible that with exactly the right twist of his mind, in that one vulnerable quarter of a second while Grievous was distracted, flinching backward from a spray of flame hot enough to burn even his armored body, Obi-Wan might be able to temporarily reverse the polarity of the electrodrivers in the general's mechanical hands. Which is exactly what he did.

Durasteel fingers sprang open, and two lightsabers fell free.

Revenge of the Sith novel

And has beaten Asajj Ventress and multiple sith apprentices of Count Dooku in the video game SW the new droid army which included a doppelganger Dooku who beat Obi-wan this was when Anakin was still a padawan. Asajj also has enough skill and speed to land a force push on Grievous during their duel.

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Overall Anakin has enough strength,speed, skill and power to beat Grievous I see Anakin, in my opinion, coming out the victor 6/10 this is not a stomp as Grievous has enough skill to hold his own and could take Anakin off guard more than once but I am confident Anakin is smart enough to use the Force on Grievous and is fast and strong enough to avoid or stonewall Grievous' assault

Basically, this. Very solid analysis and accurate outcome.

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Void_Reborn

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@boutatakeanl: Made a response to that post, you can look over it if you wish. Basically my take in the opposing direction.

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Void_Reborn

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OT:

Anakin, based on consistent feats, is not on the same level of strength as Grievous, someone who can crush skulls simply out of irritation, level entire durasteel control consoles just by leaning on them, tear open duranium plated elevator doors, kick Jedi Masters so hard they turn into high velocity projectiles that collapse structures they connect with etc.

Anakin is most definitely one of the fastest Jedi around, Durge is not wrong. It wouldn't be hard to believe he is faster than Fisto, Plo or Obi-Wan. However this doesn't make him any faster than Grievous, who is also already confirmed as much faster than Obi-Wan in the ROTS novel, when Kenobi himself admits that he isn't as fast as Grievous, who, when ramping up his attack speed, can output 21 strikes per second, something I doubt Anakin can match even if amping himself to the limit. Grievous has also already stomped Council members on the level of Fisto or Plo as per the Hypori fight, despite that they were a little tired; but they did have ample time to regain their stamina and compose themselves.

What else do we have that suggests Grievous is faster than Anakin? Just compare their encounters with the same opponent, Durge, who by his own statement, is fast enough to see Jedi moving in slow motion:

Anakin, while still holding his lightsaber, gets absolutely battered by Durge in close quarters combat. Sure, he's fast, but Durge is obviously faster. The moment Durge gets close enough he starts punching the living sh*t out of the Chosen One and manhandling him.

Compared to Grievous? Right after having two lightsabers plunged into his back, being knocked through several statues and museum sculptures/exhibits and electrocuted (Grievous is much more vulnerable to electricity being nearly entirely composed of electronics and metal which conducts it well) by Durge's electric bolars still manages to blitz Durge easily when he composes himself:

Anakin is fast. But he's not that fast.

There is nothing that suggests Anakin can pull off a one shot force ability before Grievous gets to him and that is also not in character for him to do. Skywalker has always preferred lightsaber combat and finishing a duel off in that manner. It is very likely he will engage that way here as well, where he is honestly outmatched in all stats and skill, because even Mace Windu was being pushed back by Grievous in LoE:

Grievous is a Mace level duelist. Perhaps better. He was hindered in 3 ways during that duel.

Feet magnetised to the ground (restricted to almost no movement), narrow environment disallowing proper use of his attack methods and also he wasn't able to use all 4 of his lightsabers, only 2 of them, effectively halving his attack output and attack speed. Also his unpredictability (Grievous attacks from numerous different angles when he is in quad blade mode, which is very difficult to defend against). Mace had Grievous with 3 disadvantages and they still stalemated. Mind you, by the end of the fight, Grievous was stalwartly advancing against Mace Windu. Meaning he was slowly beginning to gain the upper hand. This is why Mace began to get worried and decided he must end the fight now before it prolongs. This is also despite the fact that Fisto had just finished off the Magnaguards and was coming to aid Windu. Windu still chose to end the fight rather than keep it up to allow Kit to assist him. It really says something about Legends Grievous's lightsaber capabilities.

Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long.

Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries. Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad—the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled.

To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...

The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.

The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.

Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous—onetime courageous commander of sentient troops—realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous—current commander of droids and other war machines—wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades.

Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep.

Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself?

Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind.

-- Labyrinth of Evil

Seeing as it took quite possibly the greatest Soresu practitioner in all of the Jedi's history to hold up against GG's tireless assault and finally dismantle him in a duel, in spite of the fact that Grievous was hindered by a narrow catwalk in the ROTS duel, I don't see how Anakin is going to be able to defend himself for long. He doesn't have the stylistic advantage against Grievous like Obi-Wan did and his tendency to bear his strength down onto his opponents (such as Dooku) with his mastery of Djem So when they are vulnerable to such attacks wouldn't apply here whatsoever. Grievous has Anakin beat in pure skill, strength, speed and the like, so I never see this duel evolving to a point where Skywalker takes the lead. He will be quickly forced onto the defensive and, much like Shaak Ti on Hypori, be unable to withstand it for very long until he collapses under the pressure.

Grievous wins

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I was originally leaning towards anakin 6-7/10. After Void's argument for Grievous, I'm convinced that Grievous can 5/10 at least.

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@takenstew22:

Once you have commented on any star wars thread, you are born again, eternally a part of the tag chain brotherhood.

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#39 TakenStew22  Online

@takenstew22:

Once you have commented on any star wars thread, you are born again, eternally a part of the tag chain brotherhood.

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The_Swaggot

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I think Void hit the nail on the head, Anakin’s brute strength fighting style just isn’t going to work against somebody like Grievous.

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@void_reborn:

A great post, and a difficult one to refute. After reading both strong arguments I can see this tilt going wither way depending on the day really.. I kind of view it as a tennis match, in one corner you have Roger Federer & in the other you have Rafael Nadal. The results typically lie in who is on their respected game better that particular day. If Anakin leverages his strengths he will pull out the win. If Grievous can parlez his superior strength & cybernetics he will pull out the win. One thing is for sure Anakin at this stage vs Grievous will be a spectacle for all fortunate enough to witness. I simply cant get past the will of the force supporting Anakin. It's close each time.

Both of you did a great job on this one, and I think this is what CV battles should be about. *tips Hat*

Erkan12 I know you are lurking about here. STILL DOOKU. ;p

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@g_race: Thank you I really appreciate it. But yeah if it were up to plot I can always see Anakin winning because will of the force or whatever. It's just the character importance. Technically speaking, however, I don't see it going that way. It'd be a spectacular fight regardless.

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@void_reborn:

You are not wrong with your pick, logic sides with Grievous even. Destiny plays a huge part in the Star Wars franchise & I just think its appropriate for me to apply it here albeit by a hair.

Good work.

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#45  Edited By thebluedragon20

It is a really close and very very good battle. I however have to side with Anakin. There is no doubt that Grievous is faster than Anakin, though I don't think it's by a significant margin. Their strength is also very comparable, both having some pretty insane strength feats. In regards to their skill, once again I think they are very close, neigh indistinguishable, but I would have to give it to Anakin. What I think people forget about Djem So is that it is not just an offensive saber skill with no defence, it relies on turning every one of an enemies attack into a counter attack. I think Anakin would be able to defend against Grievous's strikes very well considering Ki Adi Mundi was able to handle himself very well and Anakin is undoubtedly more skilled than Mundi.

I also think the force could be a deciding factor. Anakin has shown multiple times to fall back on force chokes and force pushes in the time period we are talking about, and we know Grievous is vulnerable to force crush. I could see Anakin crushing Grievous's neck metal, similar to how mace crushed his chest. How this would affect Grievous however, I'm not sure.

I have to say Anakin 6/10 in really tough fights.

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He beats Episode 2 Anakin

Loses to Episode 3 Anakin

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It is a really close and very very good battle. I however have to side with Anakin. There is no doubt that Grievous is faster than Anakin, though I don't think it's by a significant margin. Their strength is also very comparable, both having some pretty insane strength feats. In regards to their skill, once again I think they are very close, neigh indistinguishable, but I would have to give it to Anakin. What I think people forget about Djem So is that it is not just an offensive saber skill with no defence, it relies on turning every one of an enemies attack into a counter attack. I think Anakin would be able to defend against Grievous's strikes very well considering Ki Adi Mundi was able to handle himself very well and Anakin is undoubtedly more skilled than Mundi.

I also think the force could be a deciding factor. Anakin has shown multiple times to fall back on force chokes and force pushes in the time period we are talking about, and we know Grievous is vulnerable to force crush. I could see Anakin crushing Grievous's neck metal, similar to how mace crushed his chest. How this would affect Grievous however, I'm not sure.

I have to say Anakin 6/10 in really tough fights.

An argument for Grievous would generally have it so Anakin doesn't get any opening to abuse the force on him like that. It's definitely not in character for him to perform it right at the start of the fight either, which I'm sure we both agree on. If Anakin hypothetically crushes the metal composing Grievous's neck what would happen is that his headpiece would have a lot of difficulty staying upright because it would be mostly dangling about and he wouldn't be able to turn it. It would cause just as much trouble as crushing his chest, albeit much less fatal because no organics exist in his neckpiece.

Ki Adi Mundi is a good example of how a defensive stylist can hold their own against Grievous but that Grievous is noticeably and massively pre-prime compared to how he is as of ROTS or slightly before the force crush from Windu. By then, I think it's obvious that the only Soresu practitioner that can hope to hold up against his tireless onslaught would be Obi-Wan, and even that was performed under extreme stress, possibility of dying within any microsecond during the fight and with an environmental circumstance hindering the cyborg. Anakin, while a master of Djem So which does have some focus on defense seeing as it is built upon the supposed 'weaknesses' of Form 3 anyway, isn't as well equipped to deal with this fight as Obi-Wan, and upon watching and reading their duels with Dooku that becomes quite obvious. Anakin thrives upon being able to batter his opponents down with a strength-based offensive, gradually gaining a massive advantage that he can capitalise on, fueled by his superior stats and force augmentation. I never see that happening in this duel, which would be a huge issue for Skywalker.

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@g_race: I've had this discussion with the same person you're agreeing with before. It evolved into a very, very lengthy debate. But generally my arguments against most of what he presented are along the lines of this:

Anakin's 'strength' feat against Ventress is quite an outlier because that would mean Ventress's hand's durability to not give in is stronger than that of the concrete beneath her feet. Not only does that not make sense but it's also obvious that this scene is purposefully dramatic to suit the sequence of events, that being Anakin tapping into the dark side. Anakin, based on consistent feats, is not on the same level of strength as Grievous, someone who can crush skulls simply out of irritation, level entire durasteel control consoles just by leaning on them, tear open duranium plated elevator doors, kick Jedi Masters so hard they turn into high velocity projectiles that collapse structures they connect with etc.

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Um yeah Asajj is established to be as stronger than the stone beneath her feet by tanking all of this if anything it is consistent for her to be stronger than stone. All of that is still weaker than stone, Anakin also resisted the pull from space, tanked being slammed steel doors and Anakin a few months after obsession(which he wouldn't have grown much) was declared to be similar to meteor strikes

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Anakin is most definitely one of the fastest Jedi around, Durge is not wrong. It wouldn't be hard to believe he is faster than Fisto, Plo or Obi-Wan. However this doesn't make him any faster than Grievous, who is also already confirmed as much faster than Obi-Wan in the ROTS novel, when Kenobi himself admits that he isn't as fast as Grievous, who, when ramping up his attack speed, can output 21 strikes per second, something I doubt Anakin can match even if amping himself to the limit. Grievous has also already stomped Council members on the level of Fisto or Plo as per the Hypori fight, despite that they were a little tired; but they did have ample time to regain their stamina and compose themselves.

Ki-Adi said they were exhausted nowhere do they mention they gained their bearings or gained any stamina at any point in fact if he says they were exhausted I am pretty sure Ki-Adi was saying he was tired during that fight. Also, how do you know Anakin can't match that

What else do we have that suggests Grievous is faster than Anakin? Just compare their encounters with the same opponent, Durge, who by his own statement, is fast enough to see Jedi moving in slow motion:

Anakin, while still holding his lightsaber, gets absolutely battered by Durge in close quarters combat. Sure, he's fast, but Durge is obviously faster. The moment Durge gets close enough he starts punching the living sh*t out of the Chosen One and manhandling him.

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Um no Durge is not faster he got a few lucky hits in and immeadeatly after Anakin proceeded to do this

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Durge is slower once Anakin gets used to his speed

Compared to Grievous? Right after having two lightsabers plunged into his back, being knocked through several statues and museum sculptures/exhibits and electrocuted (Grievous is much more vulnerable to electricity being nearly entirely composed of electronics and metal which conducts it well) by Durge's electric bolars still manages to blitz Durge easily when he composes himself:

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Anakin is fast. But he's not that fast.

Yes he is you forgot this didn't you

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Asajj outmatches Grievous blade to blade

There is nothing that suggests Anakin can pull off a one shot force ability before Grievous gets to him and that is also not in character for him to do.

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Sure...

Skywalker has always preferred lightsaber combat and finishing a duel off in that manner.

Because he is fighting dark siders he is not using the Force against people who can defend themselves with the Force literally what does he do with Durge he uses the Force twice

It is very likely he will engage that way here as well, where he is honestly outmatched in all stats and skill, because even Mace Windu was being pushed back by Grievous in LoE:

So what statistically Anakin is stronger than Mace, has similar levels of speed and skill also oh no Mace has never...

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Ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_dwkjQHre0

0:46

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Ever driven back before

Grievous is a Mace level duelist. Perhaps better. He was hindered in 3 ways during that duel.

Mace was also hindered

Feet magnetised to the ground (restricted to almost no movement),

It's not that big of a hinderence because Grievous can make up for it

Narrow environment disallowing proper use of his attack methods

Never mentioned in the novel nor hinted at

And also he wasn't able to use all 4 of his lightsabers, only 2 of them, effectively halving his attack output and attack speed.

Grievous has fought people with only 2 lightsabers just fine and has been confident only using 2 against Obi-wan suggesting it really didn't help that much if he was that confident not to mention he has consistently worked just as well with 2

Also his unpredictability (Grievous attacks from numerous different angles when he is in quad blade mode, which is very difficult to defend against). Mace had Grievous with 3 disadvantages and they still stalemated.

Stalemated in a brief exchange that was inconclusive not to mention Mace could not use his acrobatics either and was using the force to make sure his legs were on the train sure he could use his legs more frequently than Grievous but unlike Grievous Mace has to split his focus from the duel to his legs

Mind you, by the end of the fight, Grievous was stalwartly advancing against Mace Windu. Meaning he was slowly beginning to gain the upper hand.

Which is meaningless because Mace has been driven back before and still won his duels mind you as well Dooku has consistently Grievous while was stated by Yoda to be Mace's equal so unless Grievous somehow is better than Dooku in saber to saber I don't see how Grievous is better

This is why Mace began to get worried and decided he must end the fight now before it prolongs. This is also despite the fact that Fisto had just finished off the Magnaguards and was coming to aid Windu. Windu still chose to end the fight rather than keep it up to allow Kit to assist him. It really says something about Legends Grievous's lightsaber capabilities.

Mace has proactively tried to help his friends more than once over a mission and Kit has no protection against Vaapad not to mention Mace doesn't want Grievous to learn Vaapad any further. Also keep in mind the exchange was brief considering Kit beat the magna guards in less than a paragraph

Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light. In a corner of Mace's mind he wondered to which Jedi Grievous's blades had belonged. Just as the Force was keeping Mace from being blown from the mag-lev's roof, magnetism of some sort was keeping the general fastened in place. For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long.

Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries. Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. Mace could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad—the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled.

To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...

The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.

The loss of his confederates was noted by whatever computers were slaved to Grievous's organic brain, but the loss neither distracted nor slowed him. His sole setting was attack. Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, those same computers suggested that Grievous alter his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary.

Crouching low, he angled the blade downward and slashed, guiding it through the roof of the car, perpendicular to Grievous's stalwart advance. Mace saw by the surprised look in the cyborg's reptilian eyes that, for all his strength, dexterity, and resolve, the living part of him wasn't always in perfect sync with his alloy servos. Clearly, Grievous—onetime courageous commander of sentient troops—realized what Mace had done and wanted to sidestep, where General Grievous—current commander of droids and other war machines—wanted nothing more than to impale Mace with lunging thrusts of the paired blades.

Slipping into the gap made by Mace's saber, Grievous's left talon lost magnetic purchase on the roof, and the general faltered. Mace came out of his crouch prepared to drive his sword into Grievous's guts, but some last-instant firing of the general's cybersynapses compelled the cyborg's torso through a swift half twist that would have sent Mace's head hurtling into the canyon had the maneuver prevailed. Instead Mace leapt backward, out of the range of the slicing blades, and Force-pushed outward, just at the instant of Grievous's single misstep.

Off the side of the car the general went, twisting and turning as he fell, Mace trying to track the general's contorted plunge, but unsuccessfully. Had he fallen into the canyon? Had he managed to dig his duranium claws into the side of the car or grab hold of the mag-lev rail itself?

Mace couldn't take the time to puzzle it out. One hundred meters away, the gunboat retracted its landing gear and rose from the roof on repulsorlift power. Reckless shots from one of the pursuing gunships obliged the Separatist craft to skew, then dive, with the gunship following close behind.

-- Labyrinth of Evil

Here is a more thorough analysis of the entire duel by KillBilly:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-misconceptions-mace-vs-grievous-2075709/

I saw it and I still disagree there are many things he forgot to mention like how Grievous with 2 sabers never comments that he needs 3

Seeing as it took quite possibly the greatest Soresu practitioner in all of the Jedi's history to hold up against GG's tireless assault and finally dismantle him in a duel, in spite of the fact that Grievous was hindered by a narrow catwalk in the ROTS duel, I don't see how Anakin is going to be able to defend himself for long.

Again that one claim is never mentioned again by anything else not to mention Anakin is considered to be the greatest Djem So duelist of his day which is all about counter attacks

He doesn't have the stylistic advantage against Grievous like Obi-Wan did and his tendency to bear his strength down onto his opponents (such as Dooku) with his mastery of Djem So when they are vulnerable to such attacks wouldn't apply here whatsoever.

Why not Grievous got his ripped off by Obi-wan and has not matched anything on the level of breaking stone

Grievous has Anakin beat in pure skill, strength, speed and the like, so I never see this duel evolving to a point where Skywalker takes the lead.

Most of which is false

He will be quickly forced onto the defensive and, much like Shaak Ti on Hypori, be unable to withstand it for very long until he collapses under the pressure.

Shaak Ti and Anakin are not that close infact Anakin is stronger than almost anyone else when it comes to physical strength and has better feats than almost anyone else in strength not to mention has speed similar to Grievous by contending with Asajj and Durge both of whom have kept up with Grievous and one of them was pre prime

Grievous wins.

Again that Mace feat is overrated as hell and should not end all be all. In fact here is Asajj stated to be the strongest student Dooku has

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This Asajj is also nowhere near her prime yet was rivaling Sora Bulq

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Sora Bulq managed to stalemate Mace for a long period of time

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"Mace Windu had to use all his skills to defeat the dark-side fighter Asajj Ventress."

-- The Official Star Wars Fact Files #108

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jedi:_Mace_Windu

Keep in mind Mace vs Asajj took place a month before Anakin fought Asajj

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Duel_on_Yavin_4

Which suggest Anakin at least in rage is not that far off from Mace even as far back as a few months after ATOC

Also keep in mind as far as dueling went Asajj was skilled enough to match Grievous

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Infact if anything Asajj beat Grievous in the duel the only reason why Grievous "beat" Asajj was because Asajj hesitated

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So Asajj did not lose the fight she just forgot she had two lightsabers which is pretty bad writing

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@thebluedragon20 said:

It is a really close and very very good battle. I however have to side with Anakin. There is no doubt that Grievous is faster than Anakin, though I don't think it's by a significant margin. Their strength is also very comparable, both having some pretty insane strength feats. In regards to their skill, once again I think they are very close, neigh indistinguishable, but I would have to give it to Anakin. What I think people forget about Djem So is that it is not just an offensive saber skill with no defence, it relies on turning every one of an enemies attack into a counter attack. I think Anakin would be able to defend against Grievous's strikes very well considering Ki Adi Mundi was able to handle himself very well and Anakin is undoubtedly more skilled than Mundi.

I also think the force could be a deciding factor. Anakin has shown multiple times to fall back on force chokes and force pushes in the time period we are talking about, and we know Grievous is vulnerable to force crush. I could see Anakin crushing Grievous's neck metal, similar to how mace crushed his chest. How this would affect Grievous however, I'm not sure.

I have to say Anakin 6/10 in really tough fights.

An argument for Grievous would generally have it so Anakin doesn't get any opening to abuse the force on him like that.

Why do you say that not only has Anakin force abused Durge multiple times he is also very good at using the Force mid combat hell he did it against Dooku in their first duel by doing a bubble not to mention he has found opening against Obi-wan in their duel when they spared

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So if Anakin can find enough time to use the Force when he is dueling Obi-wan someone who uses the Force quite a lot mind you

It's definitely not in character for him to perform it right at the start of the fight either, which I'm sure we both agree on.

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Again that is a lie

If Anakin hypothetically crushes the metal composing Grievous's neck what would happen is that his headpiece would have a lot of difficulty staying upright because it would be mostly dangling about and he wouldn't be able to turn it. It would cause just as much trouble as crushing his chest, albeit much less fatal because no organics exist in his neckpiece.

True

Ki Adi Mundi is a good example of how a defensive stylist can hold their own against Grievous but that Grievous is noticeably and massively pre-prime compared to how he is as of ROTS or slightly before the force crush from Windu.

Pretty sure force users would have grown even more than Grievous should be capable of

By then, I think it's obvious that the only Soresu practitioner that can hope to hold up against his tireless onslaught would be Obi-Wan, and even that was performed under extreme stress, possibility of dying within any microsecond during the fight and with an environmental circumstance hindering the cyborg.

Again that environmental circumstance is questionable at best not to mention Anakin was at least comparable if not superior to Obi-wan in Obsession

Anakin, while a master of Djem So which does have some focus on defense seeing as it is built upon the supposed 'weaknesses' of Form 3 anyway, isn't as well equipped to deal with this fight as Obi-Wan, and upon watching and reading their duels with Dooku that becomes quite obvious.

Why Form 5 is built on counter-attacks not to mention it has strength priority plus Anakin has worked on its footwork pretty well with Ataru plus has knowledge on Niman as well

Anakin thrives upon being able to batter his opponents down with a strength-based offensive, gradually gaining a massive advantage that he can capitalise on, fueled by his superior stats and force augmentation.

Yes and I can't think of anyone matching Anakin in strength at this point even if it is just 6 months before ROTS and you also forgot Anakin also uses the force offensively quite a lot actually something which helps against Grievous

I never see that happening in this duel, which would be a huge issue for Skywalker.

Why Anakin's defenses are not really lacking when emotionally stable and focused sure he is not Obi-wan but he is definitely better than most people Grievous fought, Anakin's faster than Obi-wan so he is going to be capable of avoiding much more, Anakin's force reserves are basically limitless so he is not tiring at any point and here it's implied Anakin's reflexes and senses are better than Mace or Tiin's

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The only two that objects are Anakin and Tiin besides him everyone trust that Anakin's senses and reflexes are good enough to pull out of hyperspace at the perfect timing also everyone there are multiple experienced pilots there as well so it's not like any of them lacks the experience in pulling out of hyperspace which just means that Anakin's reflexes are better than Mace or Obi-wan. Hell Mace straight up says any other plan has less of a chance of success which would include he or Tiin on the helm

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