General Grievous (SW) vs Darth Malgus (SWL)

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TG_15

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#1  Edited By TG_15

A few Nightsisters on Dathomir decided to resurrect Mother Talzin after her demise in the hands of General Grievous. They went to a hidden location that holds the World Between Worlds to bring back Mother Talzin and Savage from the dead. Upon opening the (wrong) gateway with the Force, Darth Malgus stepped out and vanquished them with one blast of lightning. General Grievous followed the Nightsisters and encountered the ancient Sith Lord. Wanting to add another fine addition, he faced Malgus on even ground on Dathomir.

R1: Canon Grievous (includes TCW from Season 1 to Season 7/8 if any lore is out). This is the only scenario where TCW 2008-2019 is included. Also includes the comics and other Canon material.

R2: Legends Grievous (Does not include TCW 2008 or CW 2003 or comics/games associated with CW 2003; The former contradicts much of Legends and the latter is extremely OP)

R3: All of Legends Grievous including the 2D microseries CW content from 2003. Again, TCW from 2008 is excluded in this scenario.

General Grievous is as of the three versions above (Canon, Legends w/o Microseries, Legends + Microseries). TCW is only usable in the first round. Darth Malgus is at his prime in power as of False Emperor and post-False Emperor incarnation. Who wins?

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VS

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Edit: Assume DS Nexus does not enhance anyone in this debate.

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deactivated-5cae4704c27f5

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Malgus crushes him all rounds.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#4  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

Malgus wins all rounds, with difficulty. Massive advantage with the Force, and Grievous is an inferior duelist. Plus this battle takes place on a DS nexus.

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SithRevenant

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Basically, yeah.

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Greysentinel365

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R1: Either way

R2: GG

R3: GG again. Like paper through a shredder.

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SithRevenant

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LordOfTheLight

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R1: Either way

R2: GG

R3: GG again. Like paper through a shredder.

Obviously

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SithRevenant

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Prime Malgus stomps with the Force, and now his lightsaber technique scales him so far beyond the likes of Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach that it's almost ludicrous.

I don't see why GG wins at all.

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TheVivas

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@sithrevenant: What do you mean “now” his lightsaber techniques scale so far beyond Darach?

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SithRevenant

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@thevivas: Well, we now have this scaling:

JUS!Malgus > FE!Malgus ~ Ilum!Hero of Tython > Act III!Hero of Tython > Act II!Hero of Tython ~ Lord Scourge > Darth Baras > Darth Ekkage > Darth Vengean > Master Wyellett > Jaric Kaedan > Warren Sedoru > Ven Zallow ~ Decieved!Malgus >> Hope!Malgus >> Return!Malgus > Kao Cen Darach

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TG_15

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Malgus wins all rounds, with difficulty. Massive advantage with the Force, and Grievous is an inferior duelist. Plus this battle takes place on a DS nexus.

Edited to ensure that DS Nexus does not help anyone.

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anti-bully

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#13  Edited By anti-bully

Grievous wins every time in every round.

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deactivated-5cae4704c27f5

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Lol @ this thread. Somebody please explain to me how a guy superior to the combined might of the HOT and the JC is going to lose to Grievous of all people.

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ArkhamAsylum3

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Malgus sweeps.

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deactivated-627d8daf1de25

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Grievous stomps, he's faster, has more Lightsabers and is trained in the Jedi Arts by Count Dooku.

He's also way cooler imo.

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TG_15

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Any meaningful explanation?

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WollfMyth209

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1. Malgus

2. Either way, it depends on Malgus' Force abuse

3. Grievous

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deactivated-5d1a45e3e76be

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Malgus stomps TCW Grievus , but loses against the other version of Grievus, who is too fast for him.

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GodxDarkxOpal

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Malgus doesn't abuse the Force???

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SithRevenant

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@subline: @mastercilghal: @cuckedcurry: Not any single version of Grievous is too fast for Malgus. This is an objectively ignorant statement on behalf of all of you. Aryn Leneer has better speed feats than the General and she'd get speedblitzed by prime Darth Malgus.

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deactivated-5cae4704c27f5

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@subline: You don't even know anything about Malgus, stop pretending you do.

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Greysentinel365

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Honestly Aryn and Malgus vs GG with only two blades would be kind of fair. He’s still way too fast.

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SithRevenant

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Greysentinel365

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@sithrevenant: In combat? No she's not. They were blatantly even when they duelled the first time and he beat her handily the second

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SithRevenant

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@greysentinel365: I mean Leneer over GG. Her speed feat in Decieved is far beyond GG's stated speed in the Stover novel.

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Greysentinel365

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@sithrevenant: Aryn has nothing in that book even close in combat.

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SithRevenant

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@greysentinel365: She's stated to be fighting stronger than she'd been before, including when she was percieving FTL as slow-motion.

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Greysentinel365

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@sithrevenant:

1. She wasn't fighting when she did that.

2. That's never stated. Even if it was the prose makes no mention of her fighting at that speed.

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SithRevenant

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@cuckedcurry: It isn't stated how many strikes she can pull, but given that her perceptions are laughably beyond FTL even without her later use of the dark side. 20 strikes per second isn't really impressive at all.

@greysentinel365: No, she was doing a whole bunch of other things instead. There's literally no reason to think she can't and wasn't fighting at that level when she goes in bloodlusted against Malgus. She gave everything she had in their first engagement, including calling upon the dark side of the Force, and she had to run away.

I'd like both of you to notd that I don't agree with this speedblitz logic in the first place. I just find these arguments that GG is too fast to be ridiculous. Aryn Leneer is absolutely a low showing for prime Malgus. That's the point here.

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Greysentinel365

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#35  Edited By Greysentinel365

@sithrevenant: The statement you tried to bring up literally doesn't exist. If it does produce it.

No, she was doing a whole bunch of other things instead.

Like what?

Aryn does not preform any better nor show any more power in her second bout with Malgus than she did in the first nor is this speed ever mentioned. If she did you would just show it instead of pussy footing around like this.

I also fail to see how Aryn is a low showing for Malgus.

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deactivated-5d1a45e3e76be

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@sithrevenant: did malgus ever overload the defenses of the greatest defensive fighter in the era where the jedi where at their peak? And remember that Kenobi was fighting in a kind of “oneness” situation. Unless you think Aryn Leneer can move faster than Kenobi,Windu or even ROTS Anakin Malgus is not taking this.

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SithRevenant

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@cuckedcurry: You have actually read the novel haven't you? She percieves hyperspace crawl as slow motion. That's easy FTL perception and she actively reacts to it at the same speed. Care to tell me why it isn't combat applicable when she can clearly use it whilst accomplishing other things at the same time? Like seriously, Aryn in that first engagement is absolutely desperate to kill Malgus, she's putting her all in to kill him. We know she is because she gets nigh-stomped in the second engagement when she isn't bloodlusted. She's blatantly fighting at her best in that fight, she'd be unimaginably dumb not to. It's not even the first time we see a Jedi utilising that technique in a combative sense in the first place.

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SithRevenant

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@mastercilghal: The Jedi were in their combative peak during KotOR, FYI.

Kenobi's upper limit with Soresu was 20 swings a second. I mean, Raskta Lsu was calculated to be capable of much more than that. So, again, why am I supposed to be phased here?

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deactivated-6098713be0993

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R1: Malgus stomps.

R2: Malgus loses in a decent to good fight if he doesn't use the Force.

R3: Grievous stomps in sabers only but loses if the Force is used.

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SithRevenant

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@cuckedcurry: Actually no, Zeerid's eyes can't properly keep track of the blur their fight is creating. Nor would that argument do you any good anyway.

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SithRevenant

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@cuckedcurry: Actually, you're assuming that they would not slow down at all. Which in the fight, they do. So that's not a contradiction, in fact it's just consistent with what actually happens.

Here's the issue, you're proving my point. Using the speed argument for Grievous winning doesn't make any sense, at all. Given how laughably inconsistent this logic has always been in this mythos.

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Greysentinel365

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She and Darth Malgus bounded across the ruins of the Temple, their blades flashing, locking, the speed of their duel so fast Zeerid could barely follow their movement.

Deceived

He had some difficulty but he could indeed follow it. Zeerid FTL perceptions confirmed.

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deactivated-5d1a45e3e76be

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@sithrevenant:

1-if we go by speed alone, than Obi Wan is better than any jedi or sith that ever came before him, which completely invalidates what you have said:

At a dead sprint, a bloodwolf, cub in jaws, can achieve velocities of eighty kilometers per hour.

On the Smuggler's Moon, a Jedi Master with his newborn Padawan ran faster.

Nar Shaddaa itself, circling the massive jewel of Nal Hutta, spins on its axis at a respectable one hundred and seventy kilometers per hour..

Obi-Wan Kenobi-ran faster.

And on a sand-lacerated mesa, a podracer utterly butchers distances at six hundred kilometers per hour.

Obi-Wan-

Ran-

Faster.

The Jedi Master ran over one hundred and sixty-five meters per second.

More than six hundred kilometers per hour.

No one, not Jedi, not Sith, had ever duplicated such superhuman locomotion.

Was Obi-Wan flying? He didn't know.

But he knew that, this time, he was not running from the blaster fire of destroyer droids. He was not running to save his own life.

He was not even running to save Qui-Gon from the slaying fire of Darth Maul's singing blade.

He was running ... to save the child he loved.

To call him a blur, a smear of speed, was to substitute poor poetry in favor of truth.

Space contracted-time distended.

Obi-Wan was a fulmination on reality.

Obi-Wan was Truth.

Obi-Wan literally blazed with kinetic light as he blistered through the Nar Shaddaan streets. And with every impossible angle he cornered, every slow-moving raindrop he dodged, every being he spared spontaneous combustion from contact with his supernatural momentum, the Jedi Master felt his muscles, his atoms, his very essence . rebelling into pandemonium.

Obi-Wan was-factually-flying apart.

source: Lone Wolf-A Tale of Obi Wan and Luke

2- Raskta Lsu is nowhere near Kenobi in terms of power and speed. let's make a simple comparison:

despite being amped by master Worror's battle meditation, she is stated to be completely incapable of mounting any defense against ROT Bane ( who is less powerful than prime Bane):

"a Weapons master was not skilled at defending against enemy force attacks. The impact of the wave would have plastered her against the wall and crushed her had Farfalla not thrown up a shield to protect the echani."

darth bane : rule of two

later, Bane menages to blast all the three jedi ( Farfalla, Othone and Raskta), and drives them back together with his physical power, to the point where they understand they're no match for him, even with the battle meditation.

By contrary, Kenobi was able to defend himself against a slightly hindered Anakin Skywalker's force blasts ( which, by scaling, are so much more powerful than Bane's that it stops being funny.

hey spun and whirled throughout its levels, up its stairs, and across its platforms; they battled out onto the collection panels over which the cascades of lava poured, and Obi-Wan, out on the edge of the collection panel, hunching under a curve of durasteel that splashed aside gouts of lava, deflecting Force blasts and countering strikes from this creature of rage that had been his best friend, suddenly comprehended an unexpectedly profound truth.

source: ROTS novel

He also fights evenly with him which suggests they were fighting with equal speed:

Still, the fight continued, even as the collection tower sank slowly into the lava. And still, neither man could gain an advantage.

Source: Revenge of the Sith Junior Novelization

Years of fighting side-by-side left these warriors evenly matched, and their exhausting duel crossed the fiery landscape of a Mustafar refinery.

Source: Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force

honestly i don't see anything to suggest Raskta is better than Obi Wan.

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SithRevenant

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@greysentinel365: @cuckedcurry:

It's almost as if during their duel, one and/or both of them stood still/were on the floor and thus were obviously not moving at all. Hence he could, sometimes, track their fight. Like seriously, this doesn't contradict anything.

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Greysentinel365

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@sithrevenant: Quote actively describes them as in motion and in the full swing of the duel. So no.

Give it up. This is just sad. You started by saying there was a quote saying she “fought stronger” than before (which doesn’t exist I checked) then back-pedalled the hell up to say it’s implied. Which it isn’t. Then not even 10 posts above you try to say Zeerid couldn’t track their duel when its clearly stated he can.

Stop BS’ing. This is why no one takes you seriously.