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#1 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

  

 

Rules

 
Expanded universe grevious
Grevious will fight in character
all gauntlet opponents will fight without morals and use there abilities to the best that they have shown to use them on a consistent basis
  win by any means except BFR
Grevious gets fully repaired if its required before going into the next round
everyone has standered gear unless stated otherwise
 
 
 

Round 1

 
Wolverine #305
Wolverine #305
 

Round 2

 
No Caption Provided
 

Round 3

 
Wolverine: Origins #39
Wolverine: Origins #39
 

Round 4

 
No Caption Provided

Venom #4 - Mike McKone
Venom #4 - Mike McKone

 Pre death
 Pre death

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Round 5

 
No Caption Provided
 
Mcfarlane Grey Hulk
Mcfarlane Grey Hulk


Grevious starts at the red dot his enemies at the other dot
Fight takes place here:
 

No Caption Provided
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#2 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

I think he'd be finished in the First round - Wolverine at his best nearly killed the Hulk and I don't think lightsabres can cut through adamantium. If we're going with EU there are metals that a lightsabres can't cut through such as beskar'gam and cortosis.

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#3 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii: Wolverine cannot kill the hulk....All though wolverine has a lot of high end showings he also has low end showings as well. Hulk should beat wolverine pretty much every time if we are talking about the savage version. He can take hits from the hulk but he can't beat him.
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#4 Edited by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Here is an example of Wolverine at his best nearly killing the Hulk. It's his morals that stop him and in this battle morals are off.

No Caption Provided

You stated at their best and I do believe this is the most powerful version of Wolverine (correct me if i'm wrong).

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#5 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii: That is pis imo. Just like daredevil beating wolverine. Using the highest end showings of a character does not work. You have to use what is consistent.
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#6 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I'm only following the rules you set at the beginning. In any battle between the Hulk and Wolverine there will never truly be a winner (It's been stated by a writer but I can't remember who). Besides the fight is with Grievous and he is no Hulk.

I'm no Wolverine fanboy because I think he is over used but I think he could take Grievous. Lightsaber would damage the flesh but not the adamantium and Logan could regenerate from that. Grievous has no self regeneration in any version. It would be a good fight but in the end Grievous is just a cyborg with lightsabers and no force abilities and Wolverine has taken on and beaten worse.

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#7 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii: When I say characters are at there best I mean the best they show on a consistent basis. I should probably edit that to avoid more confusion.
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#8 Edited by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Fair enough. Just to clarify is round 2 Symbiote Spidey or just Black costume?

Sorry just noticed it was normal Spidey.

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#9 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii: neither.
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#10 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry just noticed it was normal Spidey.

In that case I think Grievous will get to round 3. Wolverine at mid level is a good fighter but unless he's at peak he would take to much damage quickly and have not enough recovery time to beat Grievous.

Round 2 - Spidey is just as fast as EU Grievous but webbing is no match for lightsabres. In order to stand a chance he would have to get up close and personal and that wouldn't work here as Grievous is like a blender at close range.

Round 3 - Here I think that the 3 symbiotes would be two much as they have good long ranged attacks and Flash as Venom uses guns and explosives. The explosives would cause effect damage that would stop the wall of Sabers. After breaking through this they shouldn't have a problem taking him down.

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#11 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

Sorry just noticed it was normal Spidey.

In that case I think Grievous will get to round 3. Wolverine at mid level is a good fighter but unless he's at peak he would take to much damage quickly and have not enough recovery time to beat Grievous.

Round 2 - Spidey is just as fast as EU Grievous but webbing is no match for lightsabres. In order to stand a chance he would have to get up close and personal and that wouldn't work here as Grievous is like a blender at close range.

Round 3 - Here I think that the 3 symbiotes would be two much as they have good long ranged attacks and Flash as Venom uses guns and explosives. The explosives would cause effect damage that would stop the wall of Sabers. After breaking through this they shouldn't have a problem taking him down.

well said

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#12 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii said: 

Round 2 - Spidey is just as fast as EU Grievous

Not even close. Grievous has run so fast that he went from standing perfectly still to appearing to have teleported in front of Nute Gunray. He has moved his lightsabers fast enough to create shields and tornado like blurring motions. He has reflexes that operate near light speed. Without reaching his peak speed level, he threw twenty blows a second. 
 
Spider-Man is not as fast in any area. 
 

The explosives would cause effect damage that would stop the wall of Sabers. After breaking through this they shouldn't have a problem taking him down.

Grievous has tanked explosions before. There is no reason to assume they whould be a problem here. 
 
Grievous is not clearing this but not for the reasons stated. 
 

@jashro44

said:

  


I like how people think this is a valid showing.
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#13 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: Couldn't find any other decent showings.
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#14 Posted by Manchine (6321 posts) - - Show Bio

He doesn't make it past round 5 for sure. Round 1 is tough on him since his sword won't cut adamantum, and I would barely give him the win 51/49. Personally its 50/50 on round 2.

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#15 Posted by karetaker (1581 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: if he gets past venom and carnage i say he clears it

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#16 Posted by karetaker (1581 posts) - - Show Bio

@Manchine: i dont see spiderman as a problem here at all or wolverine

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#17 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

The only challenge Wolverine presents is that he could last for a while. Nothing else is a problem. Grievous can continually slash at him until he falls. Logan is nowhere near fast enough to tag him. 
 
And Spider-Man vs Grievous is an obvious stomp. Obi-Wan has deflected blaster fire from a couple hundred droids simultaneously, and Grievous is faster than he is. How in the world is Spider-Man supposed to contend with him?

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#18 Posted by karetaker (1581 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: exactly.people were giving them 2 much credit

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#19 Edited by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@Harddrivexxii said:

Round 2 - Spidey is just as fast as EU Grievous

Not even close. Grievous has run so fast that he went from standing perfectly still to appearing to have teleported in front of Nute Gunray. He has moved his lightsabers fast enough to create shields and tornado like blurring motions. He has reflexes that operate near light speed. Without reaching his peak speed level, he threw twenty blows a second.

Spider-Man is not as fast in any area.

The explosives would cause effect damage that would stop the wall of Sabers. After breaking through this they shouldn't have a problem taking him down.

Grievous has tanked explosions before. There is no reason to assume they whould be a problem here.

Grievous is not clearing this but not for the reasons stated.

@jashro44

said:
I like how people think this is a valid showing.

Spiderman does have just as fast reactions due to his spider sense. Grievous is just a cyborg with a Kaleesh brain and no force powers. He has no precog powers.

I didn't say anything about him not tanking the explosion, I said that it would disrupt the wall of sabers giving time for the other symbiotes to break inside the defense to take him out.

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#20 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

@jashro44: Here is an example of Wolverine at his best nearly killing the Hulk. It's his morals that stop him and in this battle morals are off.

No Caption Provided

You stated at their best and I do believe this is the most powerful version of Wolverine (correct me if i'm wrong).

Thats Wolverine as death! When he was amped by apoc

He doesnt clear

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#21 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212: The rules were changed from the first post. It was first stated best showing then to consistent showing. Read on I do change this.

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#22 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212: The rules were changed from the first post. It was first stated best showing then to consistent showing. Read on I do change this.

Oh, yeah as Jashroo said that's a terrible showing for the Hulk, Namor completely trash trucked Wolverine and Namor is not even close to Hulks weight class.

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#23 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212 said:

@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212: The rules were changed from the first post. It was first stated best showing then to consistent showing. Read on I do change this.

Oh, yeah as Jashroo said that's a terrible showing for the Hulk, Namor completely trash trucked Wolverine and Namor is not even close to Hulks weight class.

Yeah true - but that was Wolvie's best showing even if it was considered PIS. Normal Logan doesn't stand a chance against the big hitters nor EU Grievous.

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#24 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212 said:

@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212: The rules were changed from the first post. It was first stated best showing then to consistent showing. Read on I do change this.

Oh, yeah as Jashroo said that's a terrible showing for the Hulk, Namor completely trash trucked Wolverine and Namor is not even close to Hulks weight class.

Yeah true - but that was Wolvie's best showing even if it was considered PIS. Normal Logan doesn't stand a chance against the big hitters nor EU Grievous.

Fighting wise I guess it was his best, but also keep in mind that it came at the expense of someone else so it seems somewhat loaded in Wolverines favor and even when thats considered we must also remember this was Wolverine during his stint as Death as Apocalypse's second in command

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#25 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii said: 

Spiderman does have just as fast reactions due to his spider sense. Grievous is just a cyborg with a Kaleesh brain and no force powers. He has no precog powers.

Obi-Wan has a precog too, in fact a precog better than Spider-Man's. Grievous is still slightly faster than Kenobi is despite that. Spider-Man possessing a precog does not make his reactions instantaneous nor render him untouchable. Characters slower than Grievous have tagged Spider-Man. No reason the General would be without the same capability, especially given his vastly superior tactical mentality and combat prowess. 
 

I didn't say anything about him not tanking the explosion, I said that it would disrupt the wall of sabers giving time for the other symbiotes to break inside the defense to take him out.

And what prevents Grievous from simply escaping the area of effect? Beyond that, this strategy makes no sense. Grievous is just supposed to swing his lightsabers, and then Flash throws a grenade, somehow stopping his limb locomotion, allowing the group to overwhelm him? Why exactly is Grievous suddenly unable to just...start swinging his lightsabers again? How is Flash supposed to throw the grenade before Grievous decapitates him? 
 
And, no, beating Grievous will not be that simple. He is durable enough to tank explosions and blasts from ships. 

The ceramic armorplast plates protecting limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannon.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
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#26 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@Harddrivexxii said:

Spiderman does have just as fast reactions due to his spider sense. Grievous is just a cyborg with a Kaleesh brain and no force powers. He has no precog powers.

Obi-Wan has a precog too, in fact a precog better than Spider-Man's. Grievous is still slightly faster than Kenobi is despite that. Spider-Man possessing a precog does not make his reactions instantaneous nor render him untouchable. Characters slower than Grievous have tagged Spider-Man. No reason the General would be without the same capability, especially given his vastly superior tactical mentality and combat prowess.

I didn't say anything about him not tanking the explosion, I said that it would disrupt the wall of sabers giving time for the other symbiotes to break inside the defense to take him out.

And what prevents Grievous from simply escaping the area of effect? Beyond that, this strategy makes no sense. Grievous is just supposed to swing his lightsabers, and then Flash throws a grenade, somehow stopping his limb locomotion, allowing the group to overwhelm him? Why exactly is Grievous suddenly unable to just...start swinging his lightsabers again? How is Flash supposed to throw the grenade before Grievous decapitates him?

And, no, beating Grievous will not be that simple. He is durable enough to tank explosions and blasts from ships.

The ceramic armorplast plates protecting limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannon.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

The symbiotes would be attacking him 3 on 1. The explosives would be combined with the projectiles from the other two. They are not going to queue up one on one to fight him. Symbiotes are capable of projecting themselves through the ground as well as projectiles so he would be attacked on many fronts in 3 dimensions. The plates may be able to take the hits but the frame they are mounted on aren't. If the symbiotes keep their distance they can win this.

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#27 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

@Silver2467 said:

@Harddrivexxii said:

Spiderman does have just as fast reactions due to his spider sense. Grievous is just a cyborg with a Kaleesh brain and no force powers. He has no precog powers.

Obi-Wan has a precog too, in fact a precog better than Spider-Man's. Grievous is still slightly faster than Kenobi is despite that. Spider-Man possessing a precog does not make his reactions instantaneous nor render him untouchable. Characters slower than Grievous have tagged Spider-Man. No reason the General would be without the same capability, especially given his vastly superior tactical mentality and combat prowess.

I didn't say anything about him not tanking the explosion, I said that it would disrupt the wall of sabers giving time for the other symbiotes to break inside the defense to take him out.

And what prevents Grievous from simply escaping the area of effect? Beyond that, this strategy makes no sense. Grievous is just supposed to swing his lightsabers, and then Flash throws a grenade, somehow stopping his limb locomotion, allowing the group to overwhelm him? Why exactly is Grievous suddenly unable to just...start swinging his lightsabers again? How is Flash supposed to throw the grenade before Grievous decapitates him?

And, no, beating Grievous will not be that simple. He is durable enough to tank explosions and blasts from ships.

The ceramic armorplast plates protecting limbs and torso and face can stop a burst from a starfighter's laser cannon.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

The symbiotes would be attacking him 3 on 1. The explosives would be combined with the projectiles from the other two. They are not going to queue up one on one to fight him. Symbiotes are capable of projecting themselves through the ground as well as projectiles so he would be attacked on many fronts in 3 dimensions. The plates may be able to take the hits but the frame they are mounted on aren't. If the symbiotes keep their distance they can win this.

Im sorry but if he took on what 6 jedi and won, I highly doubt that 3 symbiotes will stop him

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#28 Posted by TheBatman586 (6466 posts) - - Show Bio

He might stop at 3 due to Omega Red's death spores. Otherwise, he clears it.

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#29 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii said: 

The symbiotes would be attacking him 3 on 1. The explosives would be combined with the projectiles from the other two. They are not going to queue up one on one to fight him. Symbiotes are capable of projecting themselves through the ground as well as projectiles so he would be attacked on many fronts in 3 dimensions. The plates may be able to take the hits but the frame they are mounted on aren't. If the symbiotes keep their distance they can win this.

None of their projectiles mean anything to a character who can swat them away with his lightsabers or could just tank many of those same projectiles. And I fail to see how they are supposed to keep their distance from a character who can run so fast he seemed to teleport. That aside, since when do Venom or Carnage ever engage an entire fight while maintaining a distance? At some point in every confrontation, they begin a physical attack, and with Grievous' own movement speed and agility, there is no feasible way for them to avoid him that long anyway. One hit is all he needs to beat them.
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#30 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheBatman586 said:

He might stop at 3 due to Omega Red's death spores.

This is what I was thinking. 
 
I doubt he clears it though. I think he could stop at Round 5. Hulk especially would be hard to drop, and he has other means of attack besides direct blows (he can release a thunder clap, for instance). I could potentially see Grievous winning that round if he depends heavily on his speed (which is customary for him), but he would have to play it smart (which, again, is customary for him).
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#31 Edited by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: @daak1212: Well this is my opinion. The 3 symbiotes have different fighting styles. They are all quick are all vastly strong, They all have a limited healing factor. They all have a version of spider sense. They have a unique stronger version of webbing. Grievous doesn't - what he has is immense speed which can be bogged down (he is a machine). I think they have enough to take him down.

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#32 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheBatman586 said:

He might stop at 3 due to Omega Red's death spores. Otherwise, he clears it.

He's a cyborg Deathspores only effect the living.

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#33 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@TheBatman586 said:

He might stop at 3 due to Omega Red's death spores.

This is what I was thinking. I doubt he clears it though. I think he could stop at Round 5. Hulk especially would be hard to drop, and he has other means of attack besides direct blows (he can release a thunder clap, for instance). I could potentially see Grievous winning that round if he depends heavily on his speed (which is customary for him), but he would have to play it smart (which, again, is customary for him).

Even then Hulk has a healing factor (which everybody seems to forget) and Hulk is pretty fast. Im pretty sure after awhile Hulk would just engage in AOE attacks...also the Thing is there

@Harddrivexxii: Limited? Anti-Venom was shot point blank in the face by the Punisher and lived, Carnage can probably replecate the same feat. Flash Venom is absolute crap, in fact Kraven gave him holy hell in I think issue 2 or 3. I know for a fact how ever that Symbiotes don't deal will with mutilation or dismemberment, as in issue 2 or 3 of the new Venom Kraven chopped off one of Venoms tendrils and he flipped out and...Oh yeah Carnage was ripped in half never to be seen again. And Guess who has two legendary weapons known for chopping crap? Grevious

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#34 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

@TheBatman586 said:

He might stop at 3 due to Omega Red's death spores. Otherwise, he clears it.

He's a cyborg Deathspores only effect the living.

He has organic lungs and heart, among a few other remaining organs.  
 
@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212: Well this is my opinion. The 3 symbiotes have different fighting styles. They are all quick are all vastly strong, They all have a limited healing factor. They all have a version of spider sense. They have a unique stronger version of webbing. Grievous doesn't - what he has is immense speed which can be bogged down (he is a machine). I think they have enough to take him down.

Strength: Not much good if you are unable to hit your target. 
Healing factor: Not sufficient to survive being beheaded. 
Webbing: Not durable enough to withstand beings slashed apart or fast enough to be beyond deflection. 
 
I also like how you think Grievous being a machine matters here (just so you know: he is not all machine). He has years of military service that have made him one of the most efficient military strategists of his time. He has electrodrivers in his brain that afford him adaptive qualities by analyzing his opponents and reacting as necessary. He has peripheral thresholds which grant him full few of his surroundings, a trait mandatory for wielding so many weapons moving at such high velocities all at once without any interception among his own movements. He has plating resistant to explosions and starship laser turrets. He has magnetic clamps which can root him in place or let him run along angled surfaces. He has mechanized legs capable of hurling him dozens of meters to a given destination. And he has a weapon capable of parrying any projectile fired from the symbiote team and of piercing through the symbiotes casually, combined with his combat training designed to make him kill on his first strike. 
 
Could the symbiote team win? Possibly. For a majority? I doubt it. Grievous just has the required skill set to handle them.
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#35 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Ohh crap that can be problematic then, I think he could avoid Omega....I think. Also random question how good are Arc Commandos in marvel/Dc standards?

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#36 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212: So you are confirming they do have a healing factor. It took the Sentry to kill Carnage who is way way above Grievous. Flash wouldn't fight like a normal symbiote more like a durable soldier.

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#37 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212: So you are confirming they do have a healing factor. It took the Sentry to kill Carnage who is way way above Grievous. Flash wouldn't fight like a normal symbiote more like a durable soldier.

Read my post again, I said it wont do them squat. Sentry ripped him in half anf Grevious can replicate the same feat with his blades. Flash sucks! If he fought like a soldier he's done for.

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#38 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: I never said they would win easily I just do think they have enough to take him down. If we were going with true personalities and not just a straight battle I could see one of the symbiotes deciding that Grievous was a better host and try and bond with him just like the Carnage symbiote tried to bond with Silver Surfer.

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#39 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

@Silver2467: Ohh crap that can be problematic then, I think he could avoid Omega....I think.

Unless he knows about OR's death spores beforehand, I see no reason to assume he would. It is possible he might surmise that the blighting effects he feels within Red's proximity concludes Red himself to be the source and would therefore prompt him to back off, but even then, how is he supposed win? Grievous' flaw is that he has no ranged capabilities; he is simply so overpowering as a straightforward opponent that he generally has no need to. But against OR, retaining a distance and capitalizing on his range can still be met with challenges. For one, Grievous' lightsabers would probably not cut through Omega Red instantly; I believe it would take some time and effort, which Grievous doesn't have in that particular engagement. While it should be an avoidable issue with his speed, Grievous does have to pay attention to OR's coils as well, which possess a respectable reach of their own, and with a gap between them, those would be his foremost obstacles. All things considered, for as fast, durable, and skilled as Grievous is, Omega Red is possibly more durable (not to mention lasting, with his healing factor), emits death spores can eat away at Grievous' life, and has coils which, if nothing else, could prove to be an annoyance to evade. 
 

Also random question how good are Arc Commandos in marvel/Dc standards?

Stay on topic.
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#40 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212: Well that's your opinion. I've given my reasons. As for the death spores from Omega Red I think they would work as he has organic components. As far as I've seen in all the showings of Grievous he has no covering over his eyes

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#41 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@daak1212 said:

@Silver2467: Ohh crap that can be problematic then, I think he could avoid Omega....I think.

Unless he knows about OR's death spores beforehand, I see no reason to assume he would. It is possible he might surmise that the blighting effects he feels within Red's proximity concludes Red himself to be the source and would therefore back off, but even then, how is he supposed win? Grievous' flaw is that he has no ranged capabilities; he is simply so overpowering as a straightforward opponent that he generally has no need to. But against OR, retaining a distance and capitalizing on his range can still be met with challenges. For one, Grievous' lightsabers would probably not cut through Omega Red instantly; I believe it would take some time and effort, which Grievous doesn't have in that particular engagement. While it should be an avoidable issue with his speed, Grievous does have to pay attention to OR's coils as well, which possess a respectable reach of their own, and with a gap between them, those would be his foremost obstacles. All things considered, for as fast, durable, and skilled as Grievous is, Omega Red is possibly more durable (not to mention lasting, with his healing factor), emits death spores can eat away at Grievous' life, and has coils which, if nothing else, could prove to be an annoyance to evade.

Also random question how good are Arc Commandos in marvel/Dc standards?

Stay on topic.

I guess with that being said it seems he will stop at Omega Red.

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#42 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii said:

It took the Sentry to kill Carnage who is way way above Grievous.

Terrible reasoning. 
 
It took a Force Storm capable of tearing apart fleets of ships to kill Palpatine once. Does that mean anything less than a wormhole is incapable of hurting him? 
 
Grievous can cut Carnage apart. 
 
@Harddrivexxii said:

@Silver2467: I never said they would win easily I just do think they have enough to take him down. If we were going with true personalities and not just a straight battle I could see one of the symbiotes deciding that Grievous was a better host and try and bond with him just like the Carnage symbiote tried to bond with Silver Surfer.

Your opinion is noted, but you are not presenting much in way of legitimate reason for your consensus, or at least none that has yet to be addressed.
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#43 Posted by daak1212 (8404 posts) - - Show Bio

@Harddrivexxii said:

@daak1212: Well that's your opinion. I've given my reasons. As for the death spores from Omega Red I think they would work as he has organic components. As far as I've seen in all the showings of Grievous he has no covering over his eyes

Yeah it seems he will stop there

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#44 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: I have given my legitimate reasons. You don't agree with them. That's what it comes down to. You said yourself in a previous post that Grievous has no ranged attacks. The symbiotes do. They have a chance of taking him out. I never said it would be an easy battle, I just explained the way they could take him out. They are not going to just stand there and let him cut them up.

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#45 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii said:

@Silver2467: I have given my legitimate reasons. You don't agree with them. That's what it comes down to. You said yourself in a previous post that Grievous has no ranged attacks. The symbiotes do. They have a chance of taking him out. I never said it would be an easy battle, I just explained the way they could take him out. They are not going to just stand there and let him cut them up.

And conversely, Grievous is not going to just stand there and let them shoot at him, the fact that many of their projectiles would fail to penetrate his durability and are by consequence useless notwithstanding. 
 
You gave reasons. None of your reasons are valid. We can agree to disagree, or you can formulate an argument, preferably in response to the counterarguments I presented to you which you ignored (especially seeing as what you just said here is a reiteration of your previous arguments, and those were already refuted). 
 
@Silver2467  said: 
Strength: Not much good if you are unable to hit your target. Healing factor: Not sufficient to survive being beheaded. Webbing: Not durable enough to withstand beings slashed apart or fast enough to be beyond deflection.  I also like how you think Grievous being a machine matters here (just so you know: he is not all machine). He has years of military service that have made him one of the most efficient military strategists of his time. He has electrodrivers in his brain that afford him adaptive qualities by analyzing his opponents and reacting as necessary. He has peripheral thresholds which grant him full few of his surroundings, a trait mandatory for wielding so many weapons moving at such high velocities all at once without any interception among his own movements. He has plating resistant to explosions and starship laser turrets. He has magnetic clamps which can root him in place or let him run along angled surfaces. He has mechanized legs capable of hurling him dozens of meters to a given destination. And he has a weapon capable of parrying any projectile fired from the symbiote team and of piercing through the symbiotes casually, combined with his combat training designed to make him kill on his first strike.  Could the symbiote team win? Possibly. For a majority? I doubt it. Grievous just has the required skill set to handle them.
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#46 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

Correction on my part: I said that Grievous has reflexes near light speed on one of the previous pages. This is a possible error. The MagnaGuards who serve under Grievous have been stated to have electrodriver processors that operate their reflexes near light speed. However, this description has never been passed on to Grievous himself, to my knowledge, only to the MagnaGuards. It is entirely conceivable though, considering his position and importance, that Grievous would inherit the same technological benefits and skills as the MagnaGuards, if not superior technology. Droid starfighters, which are operated by a droid processor in the ship (the ship itself is one large droid) similarly possesses reaction time of that degree, and this makes perfect sense when taking into account that turbolaser fire (which the droid fighters obviously have to evade) travels at light speed. Once again, it only seems logical that Grievous would similarly possess this processing power and speed if lesser units than himself have them, moreso because Grievous has been demonstrated as markedly faster than the MagnaGuards, and as a fact that supports this theory, it has been noted that the MagnaGuards share programming with Grievous. But I have never seen an outright statement that identifies Grievous' reflexes to be an equal to theirs, and for that reason, I may have to retract my claim. The reason I said Grievous has relativistic reaction time is because I confused a description made pertaining to the MagnaGuards with one made pertaining to Grievous, though I do think it remains a possibility.

Three MagnaGuards, each with a double-ended weapon that generated an energy field impervious to lightsabers, each with reflexes that operated near lightspeed, each with hypersophisticated heuristic combat algorithms that enabled it to learn from experience and adapt its tactics instantly to any situation, were certainly beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat, but it was not Obi-Wan who would defeat them; Obi-Wan wasn't even fighting.

He had the Force to guide him through, and the tri-fighter had only its electronic reflexes—but those electronic reflexes operated at roughly the speed of light. It stayed on his tail as if he were dragging it by a tow cable.

The vast semisphere of the view wall bloomed with battle. Sophisticated sensor algorithms compressed the combat that sprawled throughout the galactic capital's orbit to a view the naked eye could enjoy: cruisers hundreds of kilometers apart, exchanging fire at near lightspeed, appeared to be practically hull-to-hull, joined by pulsing cables of flame.


--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

Gunray saw that Grievous was accompanied by four of his elite MagnaGuards. Fearsome bipedal battle droids built to exacting specifications, they stood as tall as the general and were armed with combat staffs tipped with electromagnetic pulse generators. Armorweave capes fell diagonally across their broad-shouldered bodies, swathing the crowns of their heads and lower faces. Benefiting from Grievous's own programming, as well as from the instruction Grievous had received from Dooku, the elite were trained in the Jedi arts, and more than a match for most.

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil

Tangent: Let me say that simply because Grievous' reaction time, and presumably his perception speed by extension, could operate on that level does not implicate that any of his other aggregate speed does. He does not in any way, shape, or form have relativistic movement or combat speed; so he unless he anticipates it, he would probably not dodge or reflect a relativistic attack (similar to the MagnaGuards, who are not capable of movement or combat speed of tat immensity either).
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#47 Posted by Picard (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, I'm reading this thread and I don't believe what I'm reading. What make Grievous any better, and more powerful than any of those characters? I mean Grievous was defeated by Obi Wan - guy who struggled with Jango Fett, bounty hunter with no powers whatsoever. What feats Obi Wan have too put him on equal ground with poeple like Wolverine or Spider-man?

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#48 Posted by Harddrivexxii (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: My reasons are as valid as yours - you just don't agree with them. I'm bored of this. I have given my reasons and you say they are not valid just because you don't agree with them. I have read Labyrinth of Evil and other EU and I don't think Grievous is as capable as you describe. You state his plating is able to take hits from starship laser turrets - this has never been proved in EU or film. Obi Wan took him out relatively easily on film and all symbiotes exceed Spiderman 30+ ton strength so they could throw large debris as well as their own projectiles.

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#49 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Harddrivexxii said:

@Silver2467: My reasons are as valid as yours - you just don't agree with them. I'm bored of this. I have given my reasons and you say they are not valid just because you don't agree with them.

Nice misrepresentation. If you ever feel the need to actually give my posts an honest read through, let me know. 
 

I have read Labyrinth of Evil and other EU and I don't think Grievous is as capable as you describe. You state his plating is able to take hits from starship laser turrets - this has never been proved in EU or film.

It was stated in an objective source by a descriptive, second-person narrative structure to give background on his character. Furthermore, he has withstood sizable explosions without damage. So I could even grant you that, and the point would still be irrelevant. 
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Obi Wan took him out relatively easily on film

Intentionally underselling the character with a statement that is not only false but is outright impertinent to the discussion does nothing to enhance your case. Obi-Wan did not defeat him "easily." In fact, at one point in their duel, Grievous overloaded Obi-Wan's defenses (hardly a feat meriting such derision given Obi-Wan's repeated ability to run through firing armies without receiving a hit). When Obi-Wan faced Grievous and throughout RotS in general, he was more attuned to the Force than he had been ever shown to throughout the prior events of his career. More importantly, Obi-Wan's lihtsaber form, Soresu, offered him the defensive capabilities and velocities necessary to contend with Grievous and come inside his offensive onslaught. Even worse is how incomparable this is to Carnage or Venom. Obi-Wan is not only faster than they are, he has as a precognitive/clairvoyant/empathetic foretelling of events as they happen around him. And he possesses a weapon, his lightsaber, that is fit perfectly to stand toe to toe with another lightsaber wielder. The symbiote team has no such advantages. What they do have is projectile capabilities which are all but useless with Grievous' speed and resiliency in play and overwhelmingly superior physical strength, which leans them no advantage against an opponent they would have a hard time landing a hit on and who can down them with one slash of just one of his four weapons, all moving faster than any of them can stand up to. 
 

and all symbiotes exceed Spiderman 30+ ton strength so they could throw large debris as well as their own projectiles.

Spider-Man is a 10+ tonner, unless I misunderstood you, and yes, they are stronger than he is. Not going to make much difference against Grievous with his speed edge. And you can continue spouting off about projectiles all you want; until you can plausibly suggest they would be of any benefit in the match, the point is moot.
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#50 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13555 posts) - - Show Bio

Sheesh, this is serious business.