We've responded to each other in multiple different threads on the same topic basically so I'll just combine all of my posts here so you don't have to waste time going into each different thread. It'll also hopefully keep our discussions more concise and less messy.
Also I probably won't respond for another week as I have CaV posts to write.
Yet they couldn't wipe a city memory without help.
There is no evidence for this. They just couldn't do it before the whole world knew about the existence of wizards.
Not to mention this doesn't prove anything as these are entirely different spells. The memory charm as to be applied to every person indicidually compared to Fiendfyre which can wipe multiple people out at a time. Your comparison is faulty.
So....that is moot since I don't have to prove they are city level when they said they couldn't conjure magic powerful enough to wipe a whole city.
Except that's due to the nature of different kinds of magic.
No, the elder wand like I said boost his power greatly since none of those Wizards even together couldn't destroy a city.
Which you haven't substantiated.
it wasn't the whole city that was fixed in FB1 but it was a good chunk but still not they whole City. you can't even show me the whole city being damaged and destroy in one scan.
Hence why I never said the whole city wasn't damaged. Still reparing a significant portion of a city in mere minutes is incredibly impressive.
no, with the Elder wand he still loses, Dumbledore words that Voldemort even before they fought at the department of ministries is the most powerful dark wizard ever.
No shit Voldemort is the most powerful but there is no definitive proof he's massively more powerful than Grindelwald. And Dumbledore most likely wasn't factoring in amps like The Elder Wand when he made that statement. I've yet to see a compelling argument for EW amped Grindelwald losing to Voldemort.
He get stomped both times, with or without the elder wand Grindelwald can't beat Voldemort.
As I said I know he can't. I simply disagree it's a stomp and you have failed to articulate why it is beyond proving Voldemort is more powerful but not quantifying by how much he is.
That is not what I meant, what I was saying was that Grindelwald went from only defeating 4 wizards before losing to being able to nearly destroy a city.
You keep on saying he lost to 4 wizards but haven't substantiated it with anything.
Not to mention this doesn't actually prove The Elder Wand is a massive amp. All you've proven is that it is an amp as we have no way of quantifying how much more powerful it made Grindelwald or whether he could destroy a city without it.
Either way...even if you wank and say it was 14 wizards still doesn't change anything. without the elder wand Grindelwald is raped by Voldemort or Dumbledore. with the Elder wand, Grindelwald get stomp by either Voldemort or Dumbledore.
Yet to be proven.
I dismissed the Top two because you didn't give me a Reason why My answer was wrong you just said "it's not" I told you why it is a rape.
My reasoning for why you were wrong was provided throughout the rest of the post.
….I explained to you why he was owned in another Post.
You didn't. All you did was say he lost badly, ignored Dumbledore's comments and made up your own fan fiction.
your argument, for the record doesn't make sense.
Coming from the guy who can't even type a grammatically cohesive sentence.
Which they were as of 1945.
Fantastic Beast Showcased Grindelwald power at the end when he was fighting those 20 Auroras and lost, To being able to nearly destroy a city.
This comparison again? Grindelwald was cheap shotted from behing by Newt and didn't legitimately lose. We also don't have any reason to believe that Grindelwald in FB1 couldn't destroy a city even if I accepted that he legitimately lost (which I'm not going to do).
That is a big power up, and difference in power.
We have no evidence that there was a mssive increase in power though. There is no evidence Grindelwald couldn't destroy a city beyond a circumstancial loss and no definitive proof 20 or so Aurors couldn't destroy a city.
so, Dumbledore got massively more powerful then went and destroyed Grindelwald.
He didn't destroy Grindelwald though. There is no evidence the fight was anything other than close.
Now, picture Dumbledore having the Elder wand fighting Grindelwald.
He wins sure but there is no reason to believe he stomps.
sure, doesn't change that Elder wand Gives a massive boost, and that was the point you were trying to disprove but you failed at that.
Except I haven't. You've just thrown out unsubstantiated claim after unsubstantiated claim with no evidence and arguments with more holes than swiss cheese.
…..And Voldemort can fly, Something no one in the series can do not even Dumbledore.
What does this prove exactly? Voldemort can perform the impossible just like Grindelwald which I never disagreed with. I think Voldemort wins here but I'm questioning whether the dispairty is as wide as you make it seem.
I posted this to prove Grindelwald was immensely talented which he is and that he's beyond a vast portion of the mythos.
Voldemort learned that, and only taught it to one other person Snape.
Good for him. See above.
this, is something that is actually useful in combat.
And? The point wasn't to prove Grindelwald can turn invisible mid combat but rather to substanitate that he's beyond most of the mythos and is up there with Voldemort and Dumbledore.
Also this isn't combat applicable lmao. Voldemort used it once in a battle in the air and Snape used it once to escape. Neither of the two have used it in any of their duels so its combat applicability is questionable to say the least.
Grindelwald ability to hide from his enemies sure didn't help me much since he has been captured twice.
Grindelwald being falllible like everyone else doesn't make the feat any less impressive.
0 that is how many times Voldemort has been captured.
Yeah but his physical body was destroyed once and he was killed the second time.
Oh look tehy have a perfectly even 2-2 split.
So...now you are dismissing statements but use Dumbledore statements for other things that support your case?
I'm not dismissing statements lmao. I'm pointing out that when 5 people say Dumbledfore>Voldemort and only 1 says Voldemort>Dumbledore we would logically take the group of 5 statements over the 1 singular statment.
debating doesn't work like that.
Jesus Christ. This really reaching attempt to make me look bad has failed spectacularly.
just because it doesn't fit your narrative you are not allowed to dismiss it.
I'm dismissing it on the grounds that it doesn't corroborate with other statements and the general storyline in the series as well as the themes. Literally every character in the series says Dumbledore's better and it is literally acknowledged in Harry's final speech to Voldemort that Albus was better which was literally meant to express all of the themes and concepts throughout the series. JK intended Dumbledore to be better and it makes much more sense from a thematical standpoint. Get over it.
they were just saying that because they hate or dislikes Voldemort; Dumbledore is correct here, it was later shown as well in their duel.
No it's not. Addressed above. It's also worth noting Dumbledore doesn't actually say Voldemort is outright better all he does is express uncertainty.
Voldemort counter every spell Dumbledore casted and teleported mid battle forcing Dumbledore to use outside help, and conjuring up a magic shield and Centore to protect himself.
Dumbledore animating Centaurs isn't against the rules of a battle lmao. Also as for the Fawkes thig Dumbledore could have used one of the statues that were holding on to Harry and Bella but hose not to. Not to mention Dumbledore knew Fawkes was an advantage he had. If Fawkes hadn't been there Dumbledore would have likely setup more defences.
Plus Voldemort got tagged 2 times and was nearly defeated by Dumbledore's water cocoon whereas the latter never seemed hard pressed nor was he tagged. While it was no stomp Dumbledore came off lookign slightly superior in the fight imo.
I aslo find it funny how Voldemort fanboys use a duel in a Chaper Titled "The Only One He Ever Feared" to prove Voldemort is superior despite the chapter title implying the inverse. This was very clearly meant to be Dumbledore's moment to shine. I mean do people seriously think JK thought Voldemort was better while writing this duel when it's in a chapter with a title like that?
From Dumbledore mouth to on screen shown that Voldemort was actually better than him even with him holding the Elder wand.
Yeah let's just ignore authorial intent, multiple quotes and take Dumbledore's opinion as fact why don't we?
just to remind you because I am sure you don't know this that Voldemort dueled like Dumbledore dueled. he mimicked Dumbledore style of duel.
No he didn't. Read the passage. Voldemort spams Killing Curses while Dumbledore transfigues objects and animates statues. Their duelling styles are incredibly different.
Explain to me this how is Grindelwald going to stop Voldemort from possessing him?
He's never done this to anyone. Why would this be different with Grindelwald?
I already explained why your post is wrong here up above.
No you haven't.
Greatly superior yes, if Grindelwald went from failing against 20 Wizards to be able to nearly destroy a city just by holding the elder wand and Dumbledore just walked in and beat him. yea, it established a gap huge gap.
Grindelwald didn't have the elder wand yes it would be a stomp. are you not able to understand that he went from losing to 10 to 20 wizards to being able to nearly destroy a city!?!?!?
we know that the elder Wand give him that amp because Like I said he was able to nearly destroy a city with the wand, when prior he couldn't even handle 20 wizards.
I skipped over your last post. what are you talking about? the Ministry at that time barely even had a there place fixed up at that time anyways so does it really matter what rank or what they were?
Legit most retarded thing I've ever seen. Quote required for them barely even having a Ministry cause they seemed pretty set up and established in FB.
Regardless it doesn't matter. Aurors are not and have never been random guards.
at the end of the day, they were in the Ministry and are the wizard Authorities.
But they're not elite so it's not an anti feat for Grindelwald. Not to mention Newt cheapshotted them.
he still Disarmed them regardless of the fact, and I still haven't seen you post anything these Aurors have done that separates them from random Wizard Authorities.
I literally just explained in my laast post that low tier Aurors likd Tonks can contend with high tier Death Eaters liek Bellatrix which you've not debunked. Yes this isn't a feat for those Aurors specifically but it helps establish the caliber of wizards we're dealing with. We have no reason to believe they're below Tonks and in fact seeing as they were literally sent to help defeat a city level threat I'd say they're top tier.
Also their feats include repairing the city within mere minutes and also created a large protective bubble which kept a large crowd of Muggles away from them.
Let's not forget that Ron is an Auror, I wouldn't even put Ron top 10 strongest Wizards in modern day.
Ron became an Aurors yes but the problem is there is no way to determine how proficient Ron was at his job other than using his fails as a student but that doesn't really prove anything as of course it was when he was far younger.
Snape would very much destroy those Security Guards wizards, Like I said Snape knows how to fly without a Broom only 2 people in existence can do that Both Voldemort and snape.
Yeah but that's because only Voldemort knew how to. He's the one who invented the spell to do that and then taught it to Snape. No one else knows how to do it because they've never been taught it.
Okay....if he couldn't handle one wizard behind him but defeat the ones in front of him it proves my point, That he was only doing so good because those Aurors were stupid enough to just stand right in a stationary position, firing spells and not dodging or finding cover.
Getting hit in the back by someone he thought wasn't a threat isn't a bad showing lol. As for the Aurors they couldn't dodge because they were in a tight pack and there was no cover for them.
you can't call it cheap if he is already fighting unfair odds as it is. How about you talk about how it was 10 against 1 and complain about that too.
It is a cheapshot though. While Grindelwald was fighting against unfair odds he at the very least could defend himself. When he was defeated he was hit in the back by people he considered non threats.
If those Wizards where in the same position when fighting snape he would be able to do that as well.
No he wouldn't. High tiers like Bellatrix have been challenged by one Auror. Grindelwald fought 20.
you know how funny it was when they put up that shield....right but instead of Grindelwald breaking the shield he decided to fight 10 wizards. Voldemort would have chuckled and just destroyed that Barrier casually.
With those non existent feats which Voldemort has to suggest he can.
What makes Auroras Elite If Wizards like Ron can make it as one? Ron isn't someone I would say is Elite.
He made it as one because he is actually surprisingly gifted academically. He passed all of his OWLS with good grades. Ron coming across as comical doesn't mean he couldn't have become an expert duellist especially since he's shown he's able to one shot Snatchers and the likes.
that all I feel like Replying to anyways like I said Voldemort pretty much rapes.
Someone who got challenged by Amelia Bones isn't going to rape Grindelwald.
Grindelwald has nothing to stop Voldemort from just possessing him.
Which he's never done to anyone in the series.