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#51 Posted by Thoromdil (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

Could stop at Snape onwards, hard stop at Voldemort.

LMAO at ppl saying he can go past Voldy. Voldemort had an even fight with A LOT more powerful version of Dumbledore WHO HAD THE ELDER WAND.

Grindelwald lost to a much younger and less experienced Dumbledore even though he had EW on his side. He is leagues from Voldemort and ppl should really be able to see it by now. I honestly believe prime Snape would be a challenge for Grindelwald, and a duo vs Minerwa and Lucius will most likely end in him getting stomped.

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#52 Posted by war of light_2814 (2694 posts) - - Show Bio

Could stop at Snape onwards, hard stop at Voldemort.

LMAO at ppl saying he can go past Voldy. Voldemort had an even fight with A LOT more powerful version of Dumbledore WHO HAD THE ELDER WAND.

Grindelwald lost to a much younger and less experienced Dumbledore even though he had EW on his side. He is leagues from Voldemort and ppl should really be able to see it by now. I honestly believe prime Snape would be a challenge for Grindelwald, and a duo vs Minerwa and Lucius will most likely end in him getting stomped.

You shouldn't be laughing at anyone while claiming something like that, dude.

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#53 Posted by Thoromdil (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_of_light_2814: Snape has very impressive feats. He is easily 4th strongest character in HP verse prior to new movies coming out. Grindelwald is only known for losing while being a master of Elder Wand, which is kinda sad if you think about it. His feats from the movies so far are pretty impressive I guess, but Snape is still comparable and is a lot more versatile.

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#54 Posted by war of light_2814 (2694 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_of_light_2814: Snape has very impressive feats. He is easily 4th strongest character in HP verse prior to new movies coming out.

He's isn't "easily the 4th" with Bellatrix around. Not that it matter, anyway.

Grindelwald is only known for losing while being a master of Elder Wand, which is kinda sad if you think about it.

Go by hype, he's on par with Dumbledore. which is well above anything Snape has. Go by feats, he's also well beyond Snape.

His feats from the movies so far are pretty impressive I guess, but Snape is still comparable and is a lot more versatile.

No, just no. Snape got nothing on fighting dozens of aurors. Most of Snape feats aren't even combat related. And for the record, Grindelwald has the Elder Wand here.

You don't really believe Snape stand a chance against Grindelwald with the Elder Wand, do you ?

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#55 Edited by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that this is an agenda thread to put SW characters above HP, which is petty, though true. And quite unnecessary seeing how he loses to Dumbledore anyways.

That said stops at Voldy.

Going over old ground from the other thread, but multiple in-universe and out of universe quotes put Voldy at the top as the most dangerous and powerful dark wizard of all time. Moreover Dumbledore himself said "Did I know that I just met the most dangerous dark wizard of all time? No." As well as "I knew that Voldemort’s knowledge of magic is perhaps more extensive than any wizard alive."

This refutes claims that Tom wasn't an academic peer of Dumby, otherwise the above phrase is total nonsense.

And Dumby knew Voldy and Grindel more intimately than anyone, so I consider him a pretty reliable source when comparing the two.

People seriously underplay the advantage and disadvantage of going against the Elder Wand. Spells are factually more powerful and can transcend the impossible to possible, such as repairing a previously beyond repair wand with a basic spell. That's a huge advantage for more powerful offensive and defensive spells, yet Dumby not only won, but he was so confident he could win that he admitted he wasn't afraid of what Grindel could do to him magically(only feared the truth of who really casted the curse that killed his sister), and Grindel still feared Dumby, despite his increased power. You can argue Dumby couldn't factor Grindel's power when he weighed his chances, but Grindel sure could and he apparently didn't think he stood as much a chance and he was right.

Grindel's fear and Dumby's confidence is all the evidence I need to conclude that they were NOT equals at nominal power. They are academic peers and closely matched in a relative sense(there are few people approaching their level), but Dumbledore is clearly decisively superior to Grindel, based on the opposite reactions; Grindel's fear and Dumby's complete lack of concern of what Grindel could do to him magically.

There is little evidence Dumby was post-prime when he fought Voldemort. JK described him as "sprightly" which means he was in good health for his age. And he was described in HBP as having "the sudden agility of a much younger man" and performing "a perfect breaststroke" (this is the scene where he and Harry swim ashore to the Horcrux lair). And at the Dursleys he whipped his wand out so rapidly Harry barely saw it.

Authorial intent and in universe and out of universe statements from reliable sources decides this. Voldy stops him and it goes without saying Dumby does as he already did in canon.

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#56 Posted by Stefano (2521 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Dumbledore

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#57 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25881 posts) - - Show Bio

Snape solos the gauntlet.

Online
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#58 Posted by Thoromdil (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_of_light_2814 said:

@thoromdil said:

@war_of_light_2814: Snape has very impressive feats. He is easily 4th strongest character in HP verse prior to new movies coming out.

He's isn't "easily the 4th" with Bellatrix around. Not that it matter, anyway.

***

Bellatrix aint got nothing on Snape. Harry put her on her tits and Snape one shot bloodlusted Harry EASILY and from behind. Snape is, again, EASILY 4th best, with no close match for the spot.

***

Grindelwald is only known for losing while being a master of Elder Wand, which is kinda sad if you think about it.

Go by hype, he's on par with Dumbledore. which is well above anything Snape has. Go by feats, he's also well beyond Snape.

***

Not really. No wank puts him at Dumbledores spot. HE LOST ok? Losing =/= being on par. And what feats exactly put Grindelwald "well beyond" Snape?

***

His feats from the movies so far are pretty impressive I guess, but Snape is still comparable and is a lot more versatile.

No, just no. Snape got nothing on fighting dozens of aurors. Most of Snape feats aren't even combat related. And for the record, Grindelwald has the Elder Wand here.

***

Fighting dozens of aurors? Ok first it was like 10 aurors total, not "dozens", second it wasnt a fight, they were not trying to kill or injure him and didnt know who he was. Third these aurors are featless jobbers. They did nothing impressive before. Four, he beat only te

wo of them and we dont even know if it was a KO, he just knocked them aside. His best feat from that scene is ability to shield from rapid fire fodder spells coming from one direction. Impressive, ok, but dont overhype it. Grindelwald was matched by freakin Tina, a SINGLE auror in a proper fight and he was beat by Newt easily which is something that would never happened to Voldemort/Dumbledore tier, period.

***

You don't really believe Snape stand a chance against Grindelwald with the Elder Wand, do you ?

***

ofc he would, via feats Snape is just better. Like I said, the only feat Grindelwald has with that wand so far is losing so it doesnt seem to be like he's profficient in using i, since it's... ya know, the opposite of what the wand is supposed to do.

***

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#59 Posted by Thoromdil (1809 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: he wont solo, but he'll beat Grindelwalds sorry ass til it turns blue.

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#60 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25881 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

Online
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#61 Posted by deactivated-5c248df879065 (58 posts) - - Show Bio

I think clears

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#62 Posted by war of light_2814 (2694 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_of_light_2814 said:

@thoromdil said:

@war_of_light_2814: Snape has very impressive feats. He is easily 4th strongest character in HP verse prior to new movies coming out.

He's isn't "easily the 4th" with Bellatrix around. Not that it matter, anyway.

***

Bellatrix aint got nothing on Snape. Harry put her on her tits and Snape one shot bloodlusted Harry EASILY and from behind. Snape is, again, EASILY 4th best, with no close match for the spot.

***

I can already tell that you never read the books. Do I need to feed it for you what Bellatrix can do? And again why does it matter if he's the fourth when Grindelwald is the third?

Go by hype, he's on par with Dumbledore. which is well above anything Snape has. Go by feats, he's also well beyond Snape.

***

Not really. No wank puts him at Dumbledores spot. HE LOST ok? Losing =/= being on par. And what feats exactly put Grindelwald "well beyond" Snape?

***

That's why I seperate hype and feats. Feats>hype but I only mention hype in comparison to Snape seeing that Snape himself only got mostly hype and little combat feats.

Grindelwald's hype> Snape's hype and Grindelwald's feats> Snape's feats. Ok?

Fighting dozens of aurors? 1.Ok first it was like 10 aurors total, not "dozens", 2. second it wasnt a fight, they were not trying to kill or injure him and didnt know who he was. 3.Third these aurors are featless jobbers. They did nothing impressive before. 4.Four, he beat only te

wo of them and we dont even know if it was a KO, he just knocked them aside. His best feat from that scene is ability to shield from rapid fire fodder spells coming from one direction. Impressive, ok, but dont overhype it. 5. Grindelwald was matched by freakin Tina, a SINGLE auror in a proper fight and 6.he was beat by Newt easily which is something that would never happened to Voldemort/Dumbledore tier, period.

1.Dead wrong 2. Indeed 3. Ok, trained Aurors are jobbers but beating a student somehow count? 4. the screenplay implies he's winning

GRAVES strides confidently back along the platform, firing spells at both groups of Aurors facing him. Spells fly back at him from all angles, but GRAVES parries them all. Several Aurors are sent flying - GRAVES appears to be winning...

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them: The Original Screenplay

5. He was maintaining his disguise then and had no trouble with her anyway.

Tina runs into view behind Graves. She fires at him, but he turns just in time, his reactions marvelous, astounding.

The Obscurus now vanishes. Graves, thoroughly irritated, advances on Tina, deflecting her spells with perfect ease.

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them: The Original Screenplay

6. Who cares how Dumbledore and Voldemort would fare in that situation, we're debating Snape.

ofc he would, via feats Snape is just better. Like I said, the only feat Grindelwald has with that wand so far is losing so it doesnt seem to be like he's profficient in using i, since it's... ya know, the opposite of what the wand is supposed to do.

***

What feat? beating sixth year Potter? Figting Mcgonagall and run away as soon as Flitwick joins her?

The post is really hard to read. Highlight the difference between your post and mine by bolding or quoting the text.

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#63 Edited by HitTheAssasin (7888 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at Grindelwald struggling against Snape. He stops at Dumbledore, his feats in the recent movie only reaffirm just how strong he is in comparison to virtually anyone else aside from Voldemort and Dumbledore.

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#64 Posted by dornisim2500 (138 posts) - - Show Bio

7

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#65 Posted by Thorthunder98 (6614 posts) - - Show Bio

lol as if there's someone trying to say Snape is on Grindewald's level Snape did nothing in the movies to put him near that level and even in the books didn't do anything to put him on that level

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#66 Edited by dark-sith123 (4871 posts) - - Show Bio

What is this? I'm a Snape fan but he gets completely raped and annihilated by Grindelwald in a manner that would bring nausea to those with the strongest stomach.

Stops at 8 in a great fight. Honestly, Fantastic Beasts Grindelwald actually has a shot of making it to Vader. No way in hell is Voldemort coming anywhere close to beating him.

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#67 Edited by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark-sith123:

It's a troll post. They know Snape gets murked, it's just that the issue of Voldy vs Grindel has been debated to death few are taking it seriously. And it's obvious this is a spite thread to HP characters, by needlessly adding Force users just to wank their superiority to HP characters.

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#68 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless the duel has context stops at Dumbledore.

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#70 Edited by Vitisid (1199 posts) - - Show Bio

This guy one-shots:

Loading Video...

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#71 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

^

That video is crap.

OT-Stops at Dumbledore.

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#72 Posted by Vitisid (1199 posts) - - Show Bio
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#73 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@vitisid said:

@arkhamasylum3: It's pure art

LMAO. It's like Jensaari video level in quality so obviously top tier.

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#74 Posted by Vitisid (1199 posts) - - Show Bio
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#75 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

^

Lol.

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#76 Edited by Daisy_Johnson (1065 posts) - - Show Bio

Dumbledore and Grindelwald essentially can't kill each other. So he only stops there due to a stalemate. Does anyone have the exact quote of where Dumbledore talks about defeating him? Because it's possible he's not the one that kills him, but only one part of the puzzle in helping to defeat him. It could even be as much as prep talk and aidding another character in battle against Grindelwald that defeats him. At this rate that's what I'm beginning to think will happen.

I know it says he fights him and outskills him, but there's other interesting factors being added into play that weren't there before. Albus Dumbledore had his own dark secrets and lies that he wasn't exactly forthcoming about. Him taking credit of Grindelwald's defeat would actually be the shroud that covers the events and landscape of that lie.

Also it's not entirely wrong to say "Dumbledore defeats Grindelwald"... From a certain point of view.

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#77 Posted by BreakOfDawn (1663 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Dumbledore for a 50-50.

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#78 Edited by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@daisy_johnson:

Dumbledore and Grindelwald essentially can't kill each other.

LOL. I mean Dumby won't out of morals, but Grindel certainly would if he could, not that he could.

So he only stops there due to a stalemate.

Based on what canon source I must ask?

Does anyone have the exact quote of where Dumbledore talks about defeating him?

Sure it's actually stated plainly in no uncertain terms Dumby defeated him outright numerous times both in-universe and out of universe:

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE CURRENTLY HEADMASTER OF HOGWARTS

Considered by many the greatest wizard of modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the Dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon’s blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel. Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and ten-pin bowling. ~ Albus Dumbledore's Chocolate Frog Card

In 1945, he was finally defeated, by no-less than his former childhood friend, Albus Dumbledore. ~ Grindelwalds' official Pottermore Fact File

"Well, you know what happened next. I won the duel. I won the wand." Deathly Hallows

Because it's possible he's not the one that kills him, but only one part of the puzzle in helping to defeat him. It could even be as much as prep talk and aidding another character in battle against Grindelwald that defeats him. At this rate that's what I'm beginning to think will happen.

Pure conjuncture and contrary to all sources, it can be dismissed outright. More over Dumby is dead and spilling out all his regrets to Harry when they are Limbo and has no reason to withhold the truth from Harry as he tells him the details of the events leading up to his confrontation with Grindelwald. What you are suggesting is not only conjuncture but also contrary to what has been established about Dumby's character.

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#79 Posted by blackpantherisb (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Voldemort.

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#80 Posted by Mije_101 (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Lord Voldemort. Destroying the Hogwarts shield with a wand that is actively resisting the wielder is still the best on-screen feat in HP.

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#81 Posted by Lan_Fan (12692 posts) - - Show Bio

Uhmm, he can probably defeat Dumbledore due to his old age.

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#82 Edited by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

And the auror feat is overrated. He just spams the shield charm against a bunch of stunning spells. A good feat of power yes, since stunning spells have a cumulative effect as per when two were enough to bring down an acromantula when one couldn't, but seeing how Voldemort is canonically more powerful via out-of-universe statements from Pottermore, he could easily replicate that feat(creating a powerful enough shield to block multiple stunning spells that occasionally ricochet back at the attackers). Yeah even on a feats basis Grindelwald has nothing on Voldy. There's a reason Dumbledore who knew Grindelwald more intimately than anyone said Voldy was the most dangerous dark wizard of all time, that he had pushed the boundaries of magic farther than they had ever been pushed, and that even his most complex and most powerful defensive charms wouldn't likely prove invincible if he returned.

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#83 Edited by Daisy_Johnson (1065 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:

@daisy_johnson:

Dumbledore and Grindelwald essentially can't kill each other.

LOL. I mean Dumby won't out of morals, but Grindel certainly would if he could, not that he could.

So he only stops there due to a stalemate.

Based on what canon source I must ask?

Does anyone have the exact quote of where Dumbledore talks about defeating him?

Sure it's actually stated plainly in no uncertain terms Dumby defeated him outright numerous times both in-universe and out of universe:

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE CURRENTLY HEADMASTER OF HOGWARTS

Considered by many the greatest wizard of modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the Dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon’s blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel. Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and ten-pin bowling. ~ Albus Dumbledore's Chocolate Frog Card

In 1945, he was finally defeated, by no-less than his former childhood friend, Albus Dumbledore. ~ Grindelwalds' official Pottermore Fact File

"Well, you know what happened next. I won the duel. I won the wand." Deathly Hallows

Because it's possible he's not the one that kills him, but only one part of the puzzle in helping to defeat him. It could even be as much as prep talk and aidding another character in battle against Grindelwald that defeats him. At this rate that's what I'm beginning to think will happen.

Pure conjuncture and contrary to all sources, it can be dismissed outright. More over Dumby is dead and spilling out all his regrets to Harry when they are Limbo and has no reason to withhold the truth from Harry as he tells him the details of the events leading up to his confrontation with Grindelwald. What you are suggesting is not only conjuncture but also contrary to what has been established about Dumby's character.

Thanks for the quotes and replies. I know the Fantastic Beast movies are going to span 5 films and end in 1945 so there is a lot that can happen in those time frames.

"So he only stops there due to a stalemate.

Based on what canon source I must ask?"

Based on the new movie actually. I'm not sure if you seen it so minor to moderate spoilers follow: It is reveled that Albus Dumbledore and Grindelwald cannot fight, harm, nor kill each other due to a blood pact that was bad between them. Think of it as a spell bound to an artifact like a horcrux in a way, it just prevents Dumbledore and Grindelwald form defeating one another. For this reason Grindelwald major focus is to recruit, manipulate, and pit someone more powerful than Albus Dumbledore to kill him because he himself cannot. I am aware it is hinted at a possibility that the blood pact "may" be destroyed.

"More over Dumby is dead and spilling out all his regrets to Harry when they are Limbo and has no reason to withhold the truth from Harry as he tells him the details of the events leading up to his confrontation with Grindelwald. What you are suggesting is not only conjuncture but also contrary to what has been established about Dumby's character."

This is exactly where things get interesting doesn't it? He kinda, sorta, DID leave out the most important detail leading up to the events of his confrontation with Grindelwald. While I'm aware people are claiming Grindelwald is lying (and I'm sure he in regards Dumbledore's sick and twisted "crusade" to turn those against him), you can't really deny the proof either. There's was a lot of it including great foreshadowing in the first film when Newt tells the story about the little girl and the Obscurial he is studying. We don't know how things will get resolved, so yes there is speculation and conjecture there. However that doesn't make my statements incorrect when I said he did not tell Harry everything. We know for a fact that Albus Dumbledore never once mentioned the big secret to Harry, it also appeared all be erased from Wizardry history.

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#84 Posted by Cregan_Stark (5161 posts) - - Show Bio

Stop at Dumbledore.

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#85 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@daisy_johnson: Really?

Are you seriously trying to argue that Dumbledore can't beat Grindelwald? Canon disagrees with you. Every source that compares the two has Dumbledore as the superior.

"(And at the height of his power, when Dumbledore knew he was the only one who could stop him, he duelled Grindelwald, and beat him, and he took the Elder Wand.)"

Credit: Winning the wand - Pottermore

Dumbledore in the above quote is outright stated to be able to stop Grindelwald.

"("I knew that we were evenly matched, perhaps that I was a shade more skilful.")"

Credit: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows page 575

And is also stated to be more skilful.

"(They say, still, that no wizarding duel ever matched that between Dumbledore and Grindelwald in 1945. Those who witnessed it have written of the terror and the awe as they watched these two extra-ordinary wizards do battle.)"

Credit: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows page 24

Plus there are eye witness accounts of the duel (see above quote). Don't you'd think they'd mention Dumbledore had help if he did?

Beating Grindelwald was mentioned as Dumbledore's crowning achievement and multiple statements back up the fact that Dumbledore is better than Grindelwald including official out of universe non biased sources. Unless you're going to argue against them of course.

Plus I'd hazard a guess that JK Rowling believes Dumbledore is better than Grindelwald and Authorial intent matters. I'm a huge Grindelwald fan but not a shred of proof backs up the fact that Dumbledore did not defeat Grindelwald fair and square.

I mean your talking to the person who made his respect thread.

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#86 Posted by Itachus17 (3340 posts) - - Show Bio

I rly love Snape as character but he is so goddamn overrated as fighter, i wouldn'y even give him a majority against Bellatrix and Grindelwald would absolutely mop the floor with him.

On topic: Stops either at Voldemort or Dumbledore.

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#87 Posted by TonyMartial (8840 posts) - - Show Bio

He aint taking Dumbledore

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#88 Posted by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@daisy_johnson:

Fair enough. I'll confess I haven't really watched any of the FB movies save for clips.

Lesson for me I guess; make sure you are up to date with your facts before you accuse others of the same lol.

That said I'm sure unless JK plans on retconning what she already established(which tbf has happened in the past) I don't see Dumby beating Grindel changing.

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#89 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Snape>Bellatrix is bullshit I used to spew until I got owned in a debate and came to terms with the fact that he's simply a good duellist on the level of Kingsley not Bellatrix and now people are putting him above Grindelwald, sad. Stop the wank guys you're giving one of my favourite fictional characters a bad name.

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#90 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

Could stop at Voldemort, otherwise stops at Dumbledore.

Dumbledore knew he was the only one who could stop him, he duelled Grindelwald, and beat him, and he took the Elder Wand.

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#91 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Voldemort.

Curios as to why, logical scaling shows us Grindelwald should take him tbh. Statements say Voldemort, logic and scaling say Grindelwald.

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#92 Posted by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackpantherisb said:

Stops at Voldemort.

Curios as to why, logical scaling shows us Grindelwald should take him tbh. Statements say Voldemort, logic and scaling say Grindelwald.

I'll just copy and paste what I wrote in the other thread, Arkham just wants to agree to disagree, but I'm curious to see if you can tackle them, we'll probably be going over old ground but here's my case if you want to refute it:

Grindelwald contended with the aruors by spamming the shield charm against multiple stunning spells; he's not reacting to each and every spell, he's just maintaining a constant shield. It's a great feat of power, to be sure, but if Voldemort is canonically more powerful he should be able to replicate that.

I mean is there an anti-feat from Voldy that contradicts his placement over Grindel? He fought a Dumbledore with a more powerful wand, than Grindelwald who had the same advantage. The two situations just can't be compared. Skill won't change, but the power behind defensive spells and offensive spells will be factored by the Elder Wand. It's an unquestionable advantage that you can't just dismiss.

At the end of the day Grindel feared Dumby (I'm to lazy to dig up the quotes but I can if you want me to) just as much as Voldy did and Dumby had absolutely no fear of what Grindel could magically do to him. And I'm still under the belief Dumby factored the Elder Wand when he said he knew they were equal, seeing how Grindel's reign lasted for years and Dumby knew he had it. Even if Dumby didn't Grindel sure could factor in the Elder Wands power, yet he still never dared set foot in Britain. I think that should tell us that a Grindelwald without the Elder Wand is considerably bellow Dumby without, and much more so that a Dumby with it. So say Grindel did better in a duel with Dumby we don't know the details about, with the same advantage over Dumby, as did the later had over Voldy doesn't disprove the statements of Voldy's superiority to Grindel.

Grindle is NOT equal to Dumby, not even with a more powerful wand.(Unless of course FB retcons it, which is possible).

As for Voldy's reputation on account of Grindel never invading Britain: Dumby knew Voldy and Grindel more intimately than anyone and should be well aware of both of their capabilities, yet he deemed Voldy to be the most dangerous dark wizard of all time and he claimed that even his most powerful and complex defensive spells would unlikely prove invincible should Voldy return. The public ignorance card really just doesn't work once you factor in Dumby, the most reliable source outside out of universe quotes from JK, which we also have.

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#93 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius:

I said I wouldn't tackle your post and I stand by that but I feel the need to address something.

Grindle is NOT equal to Dumby,

Just about every source that compares the 2 has them as equals though with a slight edge to Dumbledore.

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#94 Edited by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3:

They were academic peers yes, that is supported by statements. And they may have been equals when they were youths, but based on the fact that Grindel refused to set foot into Britian on account of fearing Dumbledore and Dumbledore's complete lack of fear of what Grindelwald could do to him magically, I think it's clear Dumbledore is decisively superior.

And I stand by the fact that the Elder Wand could very well be in Dumby's calculations and the fact that Grindel would know of it's power relative to Dumbledore, yet still feared him. To me that speaks a lot to Dumby's decisive superiority to Grindelwald, despite the later possessing an advantage with the Elder Wand(I know you hate that word but it's still true).

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#95 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:

@arkhamasylum3:

They were academic peers yes, that is supported by statements. And they may have been equals when they were youths, but based on the fact that Grindel refused to set foot into Britian on account of fearing Dumbledore and Dumbledore's complete lack of fear of what Grindelwald could do to him magically, I think it's clear Dumbledore is decisively superior.

Fear=Lack of comparability?

And I stand by the fact that the Elder Wand could very well be in Dumby's calculations and the fact that Grindel would know of it's power relative to Dumbledore, yet still feared him. To me that speaks a lot to Dumby's decisive superiority to Grindelwald, despite the later possessing an advantage with the Elder Wand(I know you hate that word but it's still true).

Once again Dumbledore had never seen The Elder Wand. Plus there growth in power seems similair enough so I don't see why Dumbledore wouldn't be discounting The Elder Wand in his statement.

Again I agree Dumbledore is Grindelwald's superior but not by a huge margin. JK Rowling made a point of establishing they were near equals.

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#96 Posted by deactivated-5bf470b432518 (5801 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: I disagree with most of that but I've got serious work to be getting on with [Maths revision, CAV posts ect] and don't really have the time to counter ATM but I might get back to that later.

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#97 Posted by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio
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#98 Posted by blackpantherisb (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@riddlerfan77: Even in universe Voldemort showed superiority. Dumbledore without the Elder Wand beat Grindelwald with the wand. Then Voldemort without the Elder wand matched Dumbledore who had it. Even with the Elder Wand Tom>Gellert.

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#99 Posted by Kilius (1573 posts) - - Show Bio
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#100 Posted by blackpantherisb (6995 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: And how is it even slightly refutable? The Dumbledore Voldemort matched should be even more powerful an experienced than the Dumbledore than beat Grindelwald. And the Elder wand is a massive amp for anyone who has it. So the Dumbledore that beat Grindelwald << the Dumbledore that Voldemort matched.