@saxz:
NOT the same. What's light speed is the shockwave creation, The air that's deflected at light speed has to do with the creation of the shockwaves(paw prints), it's only in the creation process.
This mental gymnastics to play downplay is beyond me.
When the air is reflected it does at LS, that is why it is created the shockwave, because it is oxygen moving at LS, that is why it goes through everything as if it were something intangible, because the oxiygen is being reflected to move at the speed of light.
It's like you chose to ignore, the second part. There's nothing here that says anything travels at light speed. You're acting like you got your OP manga yesterday, these feats have already being argued glossed over and debunked years ago. Like Haku and Aroneiro, it's nothing new.
The one who ignores everything is you, you decide to invent something stupid as they are two different things, when the blast of oxygen goes through everything because it moves at LS.
Nobody reacted to Haku, nice try.
Aroniero gets debunked by Gin, nice try.
Rel is still slow to Kizaru, Nice try.
Anyway Kuma similarly deflects air at light speed to create the Ursa shockwave and lol that doesn't even have any movement speed, it's just stationary.
Source: trust me pls
he is not reflecting anything to LS with ursus shock, he is doing it at an unknown speed, only what he wants to achieve with this technique is to compress a large amount of oxygen in a small point, then release it violently, you do not even understand that, LMAO
Add on to the fact that Zoro who isn't even LS can casually dodge a dozen of it at the same time and , this isn't even worth anyone's time.
Characters feats arent anti-feat, you can't say the attack is not LS just because someone dodges it, this logic is dumb, Lmao
Scans stating that they are as fast and strong as Kizaru's.lord knows you need that to debunk the several scans that specifically shows Kizaru repeatedly statuing pacifista tier opponents.
They are kizaru`s lasers, vegapunk replicated his power in pacifistas, If you don't understand that, go to see a doctor.
Pacifistas dont attack or fight at LS, only their lasers go at that speed.
Kizaru can attack and fight at LS.
Kuma is indeed LS at deflecting the air, he is just not LS the way you want, just like Haku it's easily debunked.
The air is deflected, ergo moving at LS creating that shockwave.
Haku is LS in her mirrors this is stated by her LMAO, you cant debunk that, neither debunk kuma.
Why are you arguing with yourself? Who said Kizaru doesn't attack at LS. Infact I have being telling you this to check your head canon that pre-TS zoro is FTL .
The only one who said Pre-Ts zoro is FTL is you, I've said that the trio has consistently been relativistic since thriller bark.
Yeah you skillfully evaded everything you were supposed to counter in this paragraph and went on an unrelated rant. Try again.
Im not going to argue something that is stated by the author, im not that denial as you.
You're making no sense, you refrenced kuma's paw. Zoro's feat with Kuma paws are easily in the FTL range, not 10 to 50%.
Prove it
You also referenced Zoro dodging Kuma's laser at close range, that's also easily relativistic+ and it is quite high considering how close the laser was before zoro moved. It's definitely not 10 to 50%.
I dont care about your non proved words, i bring here calcs that put that feat at 0.66c which still below LS.
so there is not contradiction here.
And again it they can react and evade things moving at LS at such close range they should have almost no problems with Kizaru, since They are all supposedly moving at LS ,it's not complicated
They dont haki, and kizaru LS is just no in travel speed (Like his lasers) but also in combat and reactions
learn the difference between trying to dodge a human being that can move and attack at LS, with a linear attack.
If they can dodge a LS beam from one guy, why get blitz by a LS beam from another guy.?
When did monster trio get blitzed by a kizaru LS beam?
source; trust me pls
again.
Lol so you know, Isshiki is FTL at VSBW, if you think their calcs are gospel, he blitzes and one shot Luffy either way. Lol. Not that anything in those calc changes anything. Pre-TS zoro isn't Rel+ ,.if he was they wouldn't be statued by kizaru as sure as they wouldn't be statued by those Lasers.
I didnt say their calcs are gospel, I said that all the feats that I am telling you have been calculated at rel, and that this is consistent with the demonstrations of the monster trio until that moment.
There is nothing FTL in naruto, because all these feats are the same as Pre-TS monster trio and they were calced at Rel as much.
LS combat/reaction can still statue combat/reaction Rel characters ._.
, you're making that up on your own. The only thing confirmed Light speed, repeatedly statued and blitzed anyone who is not a high tier. Oda even made an extra note on how fast Kizaru is and how it's impossible to react to him without observational haki. But please just assume Zoro can casually dodge dozens of projectiles moving at Kizaru's level of speed. Complete disregard for Kizaru and the author.
Zoro can do it, he has de feats to do it, he will still get fodderized when kizaru star to actually fight at LS, he does not had feats with keeping to someone that fights and reacts at that speed in that moment
Also zoro does not had haki at that moment.
Lol is this a joke, You say this, but then go ahead and say they can react to light. How is too fast and they are casually reacting and even dodging dozens of it. LMAO You're so confused.
Because they can, for gods sakes they do it several times, it cant be considered an outlier o contradictory because it has happened many times that it is impossible to not count it, LMAO
It's not relativistic, to put it in perspective, dodging just one of those is relativistic, Zoro is dodging dozens at extremely close range, which means he had to statue some paws at some point so he could move around them. It's common sense. It's like calling someone a mere bullet timer for deflecting dozens of bullets from a machine gun , nope that person has to be reasonable faster than bullet to perform the feat.
Not necessarily if zoro can follow the movements of kuma's arms (Because they are not LS unlike Kizaru) and know where each canon pad is going, because they are linear attacks, which you still don't understand.
And if it is as you say (because you have not shown anything) it is an outlier, and thats all, it is out of the ordinary feats, which are relativistic.
Your personal fan calc is nobody's business. That's why it's called fan calced, it's non canon and literally has little to no viability.
Your denial and headcanon is not a proof of anything.
Most of the calc are them reacting to lasers which aren't confirmed light speed, the only ones that will be considered accurate are the ones with Kizaru in them.
They are kizaru lasers and his power, that they don't have their properties, its your headcanon to downplay
Where does it say in the Manga that they don't have kizarus fruit properties?
Anyway thought you had an argument but you don't. There's still no reason why Isshiki doesn't low diff Luffy.
I have arguments, and better than yours, honestly
I have shown you that the pacifista lasers are the same as kizaru, and you have said based on absolutely nothing that they do not have their properties, only your own headcanon.
I am right here, you are not.
I have explained to you that kuma reflects the air to LS and thats why it creates that shockwave that goes through everything it touches, because it reflected the air to it moving at LS, the feat is clear.
You have invented that the air moves at another speed based on pure headcanon and nothing to support it, nothing seriously.
You say that zoro's feats are FTL based on nothing, because you have not given any proof of that, while I have brought several calculations that put the pre-TS monster trio in relativistic, again I am right and i had the evidence and you do not.
Keep trying.
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