Garou (OPM) vs All-Might (MHA)

It was never stated to be hundreds of punched,and regardless even hundreds of those aren't on par with what All Might did here

Not even close.

Not really,nothing says Genos could do what All Might did with air pressure alone. It doesn't matter though,as none of the punches Garou took were on par with what Genos hit Sea King with.

Yeah,I checked his power was enhanced after his fight with G4. But that was the only time his strength was upgraded for the record.

Still is a way better feat.

Pretending rhis is Garou's go to move? Anyway why is cutting Royal Ripper impressive? He is way less durable than all might.

Garou gets stomped horribly on any basis of strength and durability so the only argument is NLF regarding his style reversing damage.

CV deleted my post... again. Anyway-

All Might doesn't have a counter to internal attacks that target joints and muscles. Garou is also fast enough to the point where he'd appear invisible to All Might while All Might would be frozen to him.

I wish Garou could win but I really don't see it happening. That guy gets cooler and cooler every chapter.

And blitzing with internal joint attacks but yeah let's ignore that.

I knew you couldn't resist saying something,lel.

Regardless he has to actually be strong enough to hurt him with pressure points, cause last time I checked people have resisted his due to being to durable for him.

When?

OHKO'ing Rover merits Garou being strong enough to hurt All Might.

@higherpower:

When?

Uh,Metal Bat?

There is also saitama, although you probably won't count him since he is obviously above All Might in durability.

OHKO'ing Rover merits Garou being strong enough to hurt All Might.

As I recall he just bfr'd it, as the ground under them broke and they fell. That's the whole reason as to why he fought Psykos iirc.

Not seeing any feats to suggest this would affect him and Garou would probably just break his fingers trying.

@thewatcherking: Metal Bat has an adaptation ability that lets him get stronger the more damage he takes so he doesn't count. Plus he muscled through Rock Smashing fist which is more of a strength feat than a durability one.

He didn't use pressure points or rock smashing fist on Saitama, who, as you said, is more durable than All Might anyway.

I already countered the argument of Garou damaging himself on All Might due to his durability (which is being overselled here) against you in another thread. His hand and fingers have struck more durable opponents like Saitama, and Garou didn't get injured from hitting him. Do explain how internal attacks that target joints and muscles wouldn't affect All Might, who has no feats against assaults of that nature.

@higherpower:

Metal Bat has an adaptation ability that lets him get stronger the more damage he takes so he doesn't count.

Like you said he gets stronger, but that doesn't mean he gets more durable so he does count.And even at his max he wasn't 1/10 as powerful as all might, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that instance if I were you.

Plus he muscled through Rock Smashing fist which is more of a strength feat than a durability one.

It's both, and it's not like All Might can't casually power through it just the same.

He didn't use pressure points

He hit a pressure point in Saitama's neck in an attempt to knock him out.

, who, as you said, is more durable than All Might anyway.

Yes, but the question you asked wasn't "Who has resisted Garou's pressure points with inferior durability to All Might?" You simply asked who has, Saitama is more durable than All Might but he is an example of his pressure points being resisted by sheer durability in any case.

@thewatcherking:

Like you said he gets stronger, but that doesn't mean he gets more durable so he does count

Metal Bat takes the damage he sustains and converts it into power, so no it still does not count.

It's both, and it's not like All Might can't casually power through it just the same.

Overpowering it would require lifting/pushing strength feats rather than striking, and All Might doesn't have any of those.

He hit a pressure point in Saitama's neck in an attempt to knock him out.

This isn't substantiated by anything other than real world martial arts, and there's no way to confirm whether Garou was intentionally trying to knock him out as opposed to hitting him out of annoyance (the latter which is more likely). Plus, in that case that you're correct, that would just give Saitama pressure point resistance. It wouldn't mean that Garou's pressure points can be shrugged off with external durability.

Yes, but the question you asked wasn't "Who has resisted Garou's pressure points with inferior durability to All Might?" You simply asked who has, Saitama is more durable than All Might but he is an example of his pressure points being resisted by sheer durability in any case.

Same as above. It just means Saitama has resistance to pressure points. There's also the fact that Garou wasn't using rock smashing fist on Saitama, while he did when he inflicted pressure point damage on TTM.

No one gets injured by hitting Saitama. That's more of a trope than anything. At best he wasn't hitting hard enough to damage himself.

He has to actually press through All Might's durability to affect his joints.

@higherpower:

Metal Bat takes the damage he sustains and converts it into power, so no it still does not count.

I hope you realize that doesn't take away from the damage he has already sustained, as isn't has never been shown to have healed from the damage he takes.Nor does it make him any more resistant to pressure points, which is the whole point of this.

Overpowering it would require lifting/pushing strength feats rather than striking, and All Might doesn't have any of those.

Come on now, he should have more than enough raw power to do it.

I don't want to argue this since it hardly matters, but with the feats he has he is way above MB when it comes to strength of any kind.

, and there's no way to confirm whether Garou was intentionally trying to knock him out as opposed to hitting him out of annoyance

Are you serious? Saitama was hit hard enough that he was forced through the concrete,he obviously wasn't using kiddy gloves with Saitama.

Plus, in that case that you're correct, that would just give Saitama pressure point resistance. It wouldn't mean that Garou's pressure points can be shrugged off with external durability.

Except, it was presented as his being unable to beat hurt due to Garou lacking the power to do it.

Same as above. It just means Saitama has resistance to pressure points. There's also the fact that Garou wasn't using rock smashing fist on Saitama, while he did when he inflicted pressure point damage on TTM.

He doesn't have to use a specific martial art to use pressure points....

And while we're at this, care to show me one person Garou has hurt that's as powerful as All Might with pressure points?

@sy8000:

No one gets injured by hitting Saitama. That's more of a trope than anything.

I don't feel like debating this so I'll just say, he didn't injure himself hitting Genos either. Recall our debate in the DSK v. Superman before attempting to dispute Genos' durability feats.

At best he wasn't hitting hard enough to damage himself.

His facial expression clearly implied him striking with a majority of his power.

He has to actually press through All Might's durability to affect his joints.

Not really. You can affect someone's joints without breaching their skin or causing external damage, especially if you're as skilled as Garou and do so strictly through the use of pressure points.

@thewatcherking:

I hope you realize that doesn't take away from the damage he has already sustained, as isn't has never been shown to have healed from the damage he takes.Nor does it make him any more resistant to pressure points, which is the whole point of this.

The difference is getting hurt doesn't hurt Metal Bat in the way we think it does. It makes him more powerful.

Come on now, he should have more than enough raw power to do it.

No feats to substantiate this.

I don't want to argue this since it hardly matters, but with the feats he has he is way above MB when it comes to strength of any kind.

Apparently not, since MB powering through Rock Smashing feat is a superior raw strength feat than anything Toshinori has. Garou is physically stronger than TTM who can lift and throw double-digit ton building sections with a single hand. MB muscling through Garou's onslaught is a feat in itself for Metal Bat. All Might doesn't have lifting strength feats to suggest he could do the same.

Are you serious? Saitama was hit hard enough that he was forced through the concrete,he obviously wasn't using kiddy gloves with Saitama.

Breaking through concrete isn't an indication that he was intentionally trying to knock him out, as opposed to hitting him out of annoyance. Plus, in his fight with MB, Garou shattered concrete and lifted a manhole cover by merely stepping down from a fence, and he did that while smiling. So breaking concrete is not an indication of his intentions at all.

Except, it was presented as his being unable to beat hurt due to Garou lacking the power to do it.

Sure I guess.

He doesn't have to use a specific martial art to use pressure points....

No, but a specific martial art would make his pressure points all the more effective, rather than just him lashing out.

And while we're at this, care to show me one person Garou has hurt that's as powerful as All Might with pressure points?

Why? It's not a technique that's dependent on power level. You either have a counter to have force being concentrated on your joints and muscles (as opposed to your external durability) or you don't.

@sy8000: @thewatcherking: Honestly, after thinking about it, I might be overplaying the pressure point argument. Though Garou will likely get better striking feats in the upcoming chapter if the manga adapts faithfully.

All things considered, this is a stalemate at worst. Garou is still way too fast for him, and All Might can't circumvent his endurance and tenacity.

What level is All Might's durability on in the first place?

Garou should be able to out-skill All-Might R1 9/10 and R2 7/10 (neither garous are monsters in these fights)

I'd say the MHA team could win the R3 5.75/10. I don't know where current manga Garou is at, Suiryu is basically Fodder I believe, but DSK is a worthy foe, and I think he out-speeds Garou and imo could probably beat base-form garou. Overall, I think DSK > Noumu (IE: the piri princess vs DSK fight feats) and Garou > All Might in a 1v1 (Siryuki is cool but is basically fodder), but I think All for One with the powers that he has could sway the outcome of the fight slightly in MHA's team

@iusemycajonas: He can take punches, but he can't take jabs. If I remember correctly at one point Noumu grabbed All-Might's torso, and Noumu's fingertips jabbed into him.

It leads me to believe that Garou should potentially be able to land jabs on him and beat him

@pmcinelly784 said:

@iusemycajonas: He can take punches, but he can't take jabs. If I remember correctly at one point Noumu grabbed All-Might's torso, and Noumu's fingertips jabbed into him.

It leads me to believe that Garou should potentially be able to land jabs on him and beat him

Does Noumu have strength feats to put him above the likes of Genos, Metal Bat, or Tank Top Master?

@iusemycajonas: To my knowledge, Noumu's only real feats are tanking AM's punches. I don't know if it's very quantifiable. He also was shown to have a very efficient healing factor Not to mention, after AM sent Noumu flying, you actually find out that Noumu actually sustained no damage. Noumus can only be commanded, they don't have the power to think for themselves, which is why the OPM team would have to get rid of AM and AFO in order to render Noumu essentially useless, or BFR Noumu so that he couldn't be commanded to do anything, and he'd go idle.

Either way, Noumu is rly rly strong, but I think DSK is slightly stronger

@pmcinelly784 said:

@iusemycajonas: To my knowledge, Noumu's only real feats are tanking AM's punches. I don't know if it's very quantifiable. He also was shown to have a very efficient healing factor Not to mention, after AM sent Noumu flying, you actually find out that Noumu actually sustained no damage. Noumus can only be commanded, they don't have the power to think for themselves, which is why the OPM team would have to get rid of AM and AFO in order to render Noumu essentially useless, or BFR Noumu so that he couldn't be commanded to do anything, and he'd go idle.

Either way, Noumu is rly rly strong, but I think DSK is slightly stronger

All Might seems to just be slightly stronger than Genos and TTM from all the feats I'm seeing of him in this thread, if Noumu can draw blood from AM then Garou would likely completely destroy AM. Especially with acess to actual dedicated cutting attacks as opposed to jabbing fingers into skin.

Garou has the edge of fighting skill and while he's resilient, All Might can very well kill him if a good punch lands.

I see no reason to address your other post since you added this, and I agree about garou getting better feats in the future.

Speed is a good advantage to have,but it gets blown out of proportion. All Might stomping the ground could cause enough air pressure to catch Garou off guard and possibly tagged. Hell, any air pressure smash could be used to eventaully tag and one shot Garou.

Also,you brought up Garou's punching Saitama as a way to say his hands won't break and yet you forgot that he hurt himself punching Bug god recently. And he has no durability feats on par with all might at all.

Air pressure and AoE attacks. As far as I know Garou's best speed feat is redirecting gattling gun fire. That wouldn't let him indefinitely outrun large attacks.

@thewatcherking: @sy8000: Air pressure attacks and AoE aren't working here. The reason is because Garou is fast enough to move FTE to All Might, which is why I said earlier that Garou would be invisible to him. This means All Might won't know where to aim his punches to launch air pressure attacks since he can't see Garou, and that's the only type of long range technique All Might has. It's not like his AoE is omni-directional. They're just straightforward blasts of air pressure.

So I fall back on it being a stalemate in the absolute worst case scenario. All Might is never tagging him. Stomping the ground to offset the balance of his opponent is a tactic he's never employed, and Garou experienced something similar against TTM so he'd be familiar with that. Plus, I doubt All Might would be capable of one-shotting Garou due to his endurance.

I mean, Garou survived an onslaught of attacks from Bang and Bomb, and Bang was strong enough to one-shot several meteorite fragments from the meteor that Saitama busted. It's impressive because those fragments ravaged Z-City and were sinking city blocks on-panel.

Multi-city block+.

I never really caught on to the whole "city level multi city block level" mumbo jumbo this site and like vsbattles seem to like doing, I just wanted to see the strongest punch, explosion, etc., that he's tanked. Multi-City Block+ is baseless to me. Some guy gave me a scan of his blood being drawn by a guy with comparable strength to All Might himself and I guess that was really all I needed.

@higherpower: If Garou's only speed feat is deflecting bullets then he wouldn't be FTE to All Might. That's not a running feat that lets him continuously move his whole body at the needed speeds.

No reason AoE attacks wouldn't occur to All Might eventually and even if Garou tanks them he'll still be vulnerable for the second he's in the air.

@iusemycajonas: He tanked the force of his own attack reversed back onto him by All For One. Said force was a massive shockwave that could fit dozens of buildings inside. He also tanked this while battered from previous damage accumulated and while depowered from not having One For All.

@sy8000: Garou moved FTE to Genos with his whole body. That's more than fast enough to move FTE to All Might.

I guess I'm more behind than I thought lol.

It was in the chapter before Elder Centipede so I'm thinking you read it and just missed it (many people did):

Gallery

Watcher and I recently had a whole debate about the validity of the feat, but I countered the shit out of him and he cried uncle 'cause I'm awesome like that.

@higherpower said:

@sy8000 said:

@higherpower said:

@sy8000: Garou moved FTE to Genos with his whole body. That's more than fast enough to move FTE to All Might.

I guess I'm more behind than I thought lol.

It was in the chapter before Elder Centipede so I'm thinking you read it and just missed the feat:

Gallery

Watcher and I recently had a whole debate about the validity of the feat, but I countered the shit out of him and he cried uncle 'cause I'm awesome like that.

Genos pretty much had a speed advantage the entire fight as even his lack of martial skill was not prohibiting him from landing hits on Garou, of which he landed significantly more than Garou himself. The panel and story flow dictates that Genos was Garou's superior and was holding back as to not kill him, but to detain him. Which is why that arm later turned out to be a trap and Garou was pinned up agaisnt at tree afterwards.

@iusemycajonas: I posted the wrong scan in your quote.

Genos pretty much had a speed advantage the entire fight

He didn't. They were even before Garou replicated Watchdog Man's movement style.

@sy8000 The scan in which Garou says "Give me paw" is where he disappeared behind Genos before he could see.

He didn't disappear behind Genos. Genos knew he was there and let him grab that arm to rocket him into a tree and trap him with wires. Again, being equal to Garou in speed would mean you would get stomped by him in H2H combat, Genos lacks martial skill and was landing more hits on Garou than Garou was on him, everything dictates that he was faster physically.

I'm sorry dude but saying Garou is "faster than Genos" is a huge stretch considering the fight that they had was clearly leading to Genos being the victor and never being in a losing or pushed back situation for Genos the entire time. He literally had complete control over the entire fight.

It's not because:

1. Garou is around the same strength level as TTM and Genos himself, and was rapidly getting stronger throughout the duration of this fight.

2. Genos let that happen in order to trap him up agaisnt a tree.

@iusemycajonas: There's no basis for Genos intentionally letting Garou get behind him. He didn't see Garou move, and didn't know he was there until after Garou talked and broke off his arm. It wasn't until after Garou snapped off his arm that he activated the rocket boosts in said arm and tied him to a tree. You have literally zero proof for it being intentional.

Genos held the upper hand in the fight but was never portrayed as faster. Though Garou only became faster than Genis after using WDM's movement style to confuse him. He wasn't faster before then.

@higherpower said:

@sy8000 said:

@higherpower said:

@sy8000: Garou moved FTE to Genos with his whole body. That's more than fast enough to move FTE to All Might.

I guess I'm more behind than I thought lol.

It was in the chapter before Elder Centipede so I'm thinking you read it and just missed it (many people did):

Gallery

Watcher and I recently had a whole debate about the validity of the feat, but I countered the shit out of him and he cried uncle 'cause I'm awesome like that.

Someone who lost a debate to me(recently) with none of the voters thinking he won shouldn't be so egotistical. I always stop debating on battle threads when someone is to stubborn to change their opinion, it wouldn't matter if they were the best debater on the site or someone like Supergoku.

Battle thread debates are never important to me, CaV/tourney debates are.

@thewatcherking: That was a joke...

Genos was not shocked when Garou appeared behind him and made no remarks about his speed. It was obviously bait to trap him agaisnt the tree. Garou didn't "become faster" Genos was just shocked and kind of mortified at the beast/monsterlike tendencies of Garou which is a huge plot point as Genos later decides that Garou needs to be killed which a huge showing of Genos's character in the story, literally has nothing to do with Garou "becoming faster" than Genos. Nothing was surprising Genos or even pushing him to go close to all out, we see his all out speed and power agaisnt Elder Centipede after, and he was moving and punching significantly harder and faster then than he was agaisnt Garou.

They're on completely different tiers at this point in the manga, and it's made extremely clear.

Sorry about that then, for some reason you saying that irked me.

@thewatcherking: I also later found out that nuke feat was an outlier.

Are you talking about Genos' "nuke shelter" feat? Because if so I figured that out when I was gathering scans for our debate.

@thewatcherking: I'm talking about the nuke feat you posted for CW Flash. I did my own research and talked to a few experts and I found out it was an outlier. I think his next fastest feat is the mach 1k one, and the gap between that and 99% the speed of light (which is around mach 800k) is too monstrously big to be simply called "high end". Plus Mujin could legit scale to FTL characters, I just didn't want to argue him at that speed since it's way above the limits which would look especially bad on me, as I helped regulate the tourney.