GAR/Imperial Guard vs CIS/T'au

Avatar image for firefly489
firefly489

617

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By firefly489

Grand Army of the Republic

No Caption Provided

Leaders

  • Commander Cody
  • ARC-77 Fordo
  • Plo Koon
  • Anakin Skywalker

Infantry

2000 CTs (DC-15)

1000 Scouts (DC-15A)

Heavy Infantry

500 Heavy CTs (Z-6)

500 Heavy CTs (RPS-6)

500 Flame troopers

100 Blaze troopers

Special Infantry

500 Clone Snipers

500 Jet Troopers

500 Medics

500 Ordinance specialists

100 ARC Commanders

100 Alpha ARCs

Speeders

500 Clone Lancers

500 Scouts on speeders

Walkers

200 AT-RTs

20 AT-APs

10 AT-TEs

10 AT-OTs

Tanks

20 TX-130s

10 Juggernauts

Artillery

20 AV-7s

Air Support

20 LAATs

Imperial Guard

No Caption Provided

Leaders

  • Katarinya Greyfax
  • Ursarkar E. Creed
  • Sebastian Yarrick
  • Hector Rex

Infantry

2000 Cadian Guardsmen

1000 Cadian Scouts

500 Cadian Veterans

Heavy Infantry

50 Plasma teams

50 Melta teams

50 Flamer teams

50 Mortar teams

50 Lascannon teams

50 Heavy Bolter teams

100 Standards Ogryns

50 Bullgryns

Special Infantry

100 Ratlings

100 Sharpshooters

100 Kasrkin Stormtroopers

Walkers

200 Sentinels

Tanks

20 Hellhounds

10 Leman Russ Tanks

10 Hydra Flank Tanks

10 Manticore Launcher Tanks

10 Baneblades

Artillery

20 Basilisks

Air Support

20 Valkyries

VS

Confederacy of Independent Systems

No Caption Provided

Leaders

  • Durge
  • Asajj Ventress
  • General Grievous

Infantry

2000 B1s

1000 B2s

Special Infantry

500 Droidekas

500 Droideka Sharpshooters

500 Jet B2s

100 BX commandos

100 Dwarf Spider Droids

10 Magnaguards

Walkers

20 Spider Droids

Tanks

20 NR-N99s

20 AAts

20 IG-227s

10 MTTs

10 Super Tanks

Artillery

20 J-1s

Air Support

20 HMPs

T'au Empire

No Caption Provided

Leaders

  • Commander Shas'O Kais
  • Commander Shadowsun
  • Commander Farsight

Infantry

2000 Fire Warriors

1000 Pathfinders

1000 Kroot Scouts

500 Shield Drones

Battlesuits

50 Crisis Battlesuits

50 Broadside Battlesuits

20 Ghostkeel Battlesuits

20 Riptide Battlesuits

20 R'varna Battlesuits

10 Stormsurge Ballistic Suits

Vehicles

200 Piranhas

10 Devilfishes

10 Hammerhead Gunships

10 Skyray Missile Gunships

10 Swordfishes

Air Support

20 Barracudas

Rules

  • EU Star Wars (ROTS)
  • Current 40k
  • All characters alive ofc
  • In character
  • Decent teamwork
  • 1 hour of prep
  • Minor knowledge
  • Standard gear
  • Win con: kill everything
  • Location: Pelennor Fields
Avatar image for six-deuce
Six-Deuce

3221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By Six-Deuce

I am currently indisposed and will give more thought to this when I can but my initial impression is this battle has a very high heavy weapons team to line infantry proportion. On a field it would be two sides both spreading out to cover their respective heavy guns while land and air vehicles skirmish. There is less room for grand strategy, making Creed and the Tau command genius a little less impactful. I think Tau have a bit of an advantage in this type of situation….IG can typically only shoot it out with the tau due to massive volume of fire advantage which they don’t have here. Also I think the primary weakness of CIS is their cartoonish propensity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory due to some tactical detail they thought beneath them…..Tau diplomacy and the condition “decent teamwork” should allow Grevious to listen to sharper tau acumen. CIS/Tau as a first stab in the dark.

Avatar image for wolfrazer
Wolfrazer

20219

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By Wolfrazer

If we’re going with EU SW, pick someone better than Rex, with Fordo here, he’s not needed. There’s also no such thing as a standard ARC, there were only ever 100 ARCs made. Unless you mean there’s 100 Clone Commanders in the field.

Avatar image for firefly489
firefly489

617

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wolfrazer said:

If we’re going with EU SW, pick someone better than Rex, with Fordo here, he’s not needed. There’s also no such thing as a standard ARC, there were only ever 100 ARCs made. Unless you mean there’s 100 Clone Commanders in the field.

when i say standard ARCs, i mean someone like Fives, when he became an ARC

Would Alpha work as a replacement?

Avatar image for wolfrazer
Wolfrazer

20219

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By Wolfrazer

@firefly489: Standard ARCs don't exist in the EU, Fives isn't part of the EU. There's only the Alpha Recon Commandos. Only Clone Commanders had any ARC training and this was to have them be better leaders, they weren't Commandos.

Also I think it'd be best to choose someone who is an overall field Commander, like Bly, Bacara or Cody. Because you already have Fordo who can manage what Alpha does.

Avatar image for firefly489
firefly489

617

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wolfrazer said:

@firefly489: Standard ARCs don't exist in the EU, Fives isn't part of the EU. There's only the Alpha Recon Commandos. Only Clone Commanders had any ARC training and this was to have them be better leaders, they weren't Commandos.

But he is. Fives and normal clones becoming ARCs were a thing before April 25, 2014.

Also I think it'd be best to choose someone who is an overall field Commander, like Bly, Bacara or Cody. Because you already have Fordo who can manage what Alpha does.

Ok

Avatar image for wolfrazer
Wolfrazer

20219

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By Wolfrazer

@firefly489: That doesn't mean they are part of the EU, even Leeland Chee and Dave himself stated that TCW is completely separated/not part of the EU, which makes sense given all the contradictions the show brings. This back in 08 no less.

Avatar image for firefly489
firefly489

617

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wolfrazer: Then there will be 100 commanders i guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Avatar image for wolfrazer
Wolfrazer

20219

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By Wolfrazer

@firefly489: Alright I guess. To further bring the point home, here's what Lee said back in 08.

"To clarify this point just a little bit further, The Clone Wars will not be considered Expanded Universe"- Leeland Chee, May 8th 2008

Dave also agrees with this, saying he really only went with Lucas' vision and how he saw things. Which is why he seems to have such a much lower opinion on Force Users compared to others.

Avatar image for firefly489
firefly489

617

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@wolfrazer: I dont disagree with you, I already looked up Filonis quote before changing it to commanders.

Avatar image for six-deuce
Six-Deuce

3221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By Six-Deuce

Anyone who has played a 2k+ IG army vs Tau on the tabletop knows you need your range blob to be much, much bigger in order to whiffle down all those pesky shield drones and cover saves that Tau are sporting…meanwhile they are taking out all your best pieces casually. And I think the clones are not making it any easier.

In character Creed is going to be spending his hour of prep on ironing out logistics for a fall back position. I am not a fan of the Tau given my main is DKoK with heavy artillery support.

Avatar image for cheth
Cheth

2733

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 Cheth  Online

@firefly489: Okay so:

Army Analysis

Infantry: 2k CTs, 1k Scouts, 2k Cadians, 1k cadian scouts, 500 cadian veterans (6.5k) vs 2k B1s, 1k B2s, 2k fire warriors, 1k pathfinders, 1k kroot scouts, 500 shield drones (7.5k). 1k numbers advantage for T2, and frankly I'd give them the quality advantage too. With B2s they have fairly tanky units, with tau they have the best range and best firepower, with shield drones they have extra defences, and with kroot scouts they have dangerous melee units. Meanwhile the T1 infantry is mostly just standard soldiers. T2 has better quality, melee, tankiness, range, and numbers, giving them just about every advantage. Much like Six said the guard needs a lot more infantry than the tau to win a firefight, especially on such an open battlefield.

Now from here its a bit more difficult to make a 1:1 versus comparison because the categories are massively different for both sides, so instead I will point out the highlights:

- Overall GAR has a pretty high amount of versatility in their special units. Moreso than any other faction here bar their allies the imperial guard. However the issue I see is in their actual uses: medics will have limited uses in an open battlefield like this, in which there isn't really much time or use in taking their time to give people medical attention. Its rather similar with Ordinance specialists; they are useful when there are enemy bombs to defuse, but neither these CIS forces or these Tau forces really even have bombs that take a long time to activate in their standard gear. This means that the medics and ordinance units really will just act as glorified troopers. Flame troopers do have their uses if the kroot ever engage in melee, but thats their only use unless they manage to cross the entire battlefield unnoticed and start burning people in nigh-melee distance (same applies to flamer teams). This means 1550 soldiers are not really doing anything remarkable here.

- T2 has clear aerial superiority. Its 20 LAATs and 20 Valkyries (40) vs 20 HMPs and 20 barracudas (40). I would give team T2 the advantage here despite the even numbers, as the HMPs are more specialized offensive ships, whereas the LAATs main purpose is transport. Amusingly the exact same applies to the empire vs the tau. The valkyries certainly are strong fighting ships as well, but their main use is transport, whereas the barracudas are pretty much the fastest ships in the setting, and while not super-strong on the offensive they still have tau weaponry which speaks for itself. However this hardly amounts to massive superiority for T2? Well the difference comes when we add units with flight: 100 blaze troopers, 500 jet troopers (600) vs 500 jet B2s, and 170 battlesuits (670). Thats not a huge quantity difference, but the difference lies in the fact that these battlesuits would absolutely decimate the clone units with ease, and unlike the rest actually have arnament to take down ships and affect the ship battle.

- Not going to lie the Republic are kind of hard-countered in this matchup. The seperatists have 10 super tanks; something that the republic explicitly has no equipment to damage with. Now the imperials suffer no such weaknesses, but even so considering they would need more damage output than anything the republic has to even put a dent into it, only the strongest artillery/tanks of their side could be able to destroy them as well. This of course results in the fact that T1 once more lags behind in overall efficiency, as the tau has tanks to match the imperials, and the imperials now also have to deal with the super tanks as the republic is useless against them. Also notable I am honestly far more impressed by the capabilities of T2 tanks here than the T1 tanks overall. The imperials obviously can match the tau, but the republic tanks severly lack any kind of versatility; they're all single-blast tanks, whereas both the CIS and the Tau sport countless different weaponry in their tanks, which allows them to not just fight back against other tanks, but cause severe damage to the enemy infantry and other units.

- Note I don't think GAR is useless here; they have enough troops and gear to do some groundwork. However overall I see them as rather a weaklink here. The only thing I see on their team that really could give an edge are: clone lancers and Alpha Arcs. The former have ridicolous speed and attack potency, despite being somewhat of a meme. If allowed to get close they could do a great amount of damage. only issue is that they have to cross the distance of two massive forces, and while they have shown capable of avoiding the CIS, the Tau are far more accurate, and have greater firepower.

- Overall I would favour T2 since they simply have too much amazing firepower

Avatar image for six-deuce
Six-Deuce

3221

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@cheth: tip of the cap to you good sir.

Avatar image for deactivated-64173259e84e1
deactivated-64173259e84e1

789

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for firefly489
firefly489

617

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for mordhauextreme1
MordhauExtreme1

1608

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@firefly489: Tau and CIS win, the Tau make use of their range advantage and let the CIS murk anyone within close range. Most of the CIS defeats are by luck or anakin and obi wan saving the day and since luck is still a factor it wont be a major issue since it wont be needed to drive the plot more

Avatar image for cheth
Cheth

2733

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 Cheth  Online

@cheth: tip of the cap to you good sir.

Thank you :), even if this one was a little short

Avatar image for calclord
calclord

460

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@firefly489: Excellent match up. As far as I know team 2 should take it in a tough fight. Nobody gets stomped.