Gandalf the Grey vs Lord Voldemort

Morals off, bloodlust off.

Battle ends in KO/death.

Battle takes place in Dumbledore's room

Who wins?

Gandalf stomps.

@NeonGameWave said:

Gandalf stomps.

Why and how? Reasons.

Stalemate

none of them can get killed by the other.

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

none of them can get killed by the other.

Yes, they can. Besides, you can KO.

@ShootingNova:Voldermort is immortal with his boxy thingies that are hidden all over the world and Gandalf can only get killed by another of his race

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

Voldermort is immortal with his boxy thingies that are hidden all over the world and Gandalf can only get killed by another of his race

Does gandalf have any counter to Avada Kedavra?

@MasterJohn said:

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

Voldermort is immortal with his boxy thingies that are hidden all over the world and Gandalf can only get killed by another of his race

Does gandalf have any counter to Avada Kedavra?

Is immortality prevents that from working that would prob destroy his body but not soul.

Avada Kedavra leaves the body unharmed. Gandalf's soul is an immortal godling.

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

@MasterJohn said:

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

Voldermort is immortal with his boxy thingies that are hidden all over the world and Gandalf can only get killed by another of his race

Does gandalf have any counter to Avada Kedavra?

Is immortality prevents that from working that would prob destroy his body but not soul.

What reference does it saying "Immortality prevents Gandalf from getting hit by a curse".

Gandalf is NOT immortal. The feat that brung him back from the dead was NOT his feat, it was Eru's feat.

Gandalf's good at dying and coming back.

Voldemort's good at killing.

Do the math.

@Ultra_Girl_: The horcruxes prevent you from dying completely, but your form can still be destroyed.

Gandalf can die. It was only Eru Illuvatar who returned him.

And KO's are applicable in this fight.

Gandalf. Far more powerful. He can hit Voldemort with over a dozen KO spells before Voldemort even knows he's in a fight.

@Marksman said:

Gandalf. Far more powerful. He can hit Voldemort with over a dozen KO spells before Voldemort even knows he's in a fight.

Feats of him doing this, please?

Gandalf would probably defeat Voldemort through proxies.Voldermort isn't a good tactician.

What you guys have to understand is that Gandalf the Grey is the extremely limited form of Olórin(a Maiar(angelic spirit), a lesser Ainur who helped SHAPE THE WORLD),he is in a hroa(sp) a physical body which intentionally limits his powers(along with the no display of power rules from the Valar),and even so he was able to do things like holding off all the Nazgul on weathertop,kill several goblins with lightining in the Hobbit and the best of all killing a Balrog(a fallen Maiar which was in a fana(sp) a special phisical body which could manifest much,much more power).

With that out of the way,about the Avada Kedavra,you guys say like it's a I win button,while in truth it could be dodged,blocked and even deflected(by teenagers),now IMhO it wouldn't even work on Gandalf because he isn't human,and non-ainur magic can't hurt him.

I am not saying Voldemort can't kill him,I am saying that Voldy would need to get his head out of his a** and use another spells instead of spamming Avada Kedavra,he could kill Gandalf by using TK to throw rocks at him,drowning him,etc.

A fight between them would be who hits first because if we go by the rules then they will just keep coming back in new bodies(Maiar who have their phisical forms destroyed under "normal" conditions can simply remake another body).

Now Gandalf The Grey was strong enough to fight a Balrog for days without rest, in the end the Balrog was running from him(keep in mind this was a being who could change the course of the war).

Depending on the situation Gandalf would just behead Voldemort with Glamdring(which undoubtly could be used to deflect Avada Kedavra).

Now the fight itself would be both throwing spells at each other and dodging/deflecting until someone gets tired and screws up(hint:it's not the guy with a staff),and then dies from either lightining or being beheaded/slashed with glamdring.

PS:OP could offer more rules as the fight as it is will have at least 7 rounds.

Book or movie versions?

Movie versions: Voldemort stomps

Book versions: Gandalf stomps

@MasterJohn: Gandalf can block Voldemort`s attacks with his forcefields, use his staff to force back Voldemort and I believe Gandalf has more experience.

@Strider92 said:

Book or movie versions?

Movie versions: Voldemort stomps

Book versions: Gandalf stomps

This. But I don't know if Gandalf could survive to "Avada Kedavra"

Gandalf the grey is non-existent. He is Gandalf the White after getting raped by the Balrog!! Lord Voldemort would kick-ass

@JokerisnotGay said:

Gandalf the grey is non-existent. He is Gandalf the White after getting raped by the Balrog!! Lord Voldemort would kick-ass

You do realize that Gandalf killed that Balrog, right?

He fought Durin's Bane for THREE DAYS on end, forcing Durin's Bane to retreat to a mountaintop throughout their fight.

Since both Gandalf's staff and his sword are infused with magic (The sword was forged with Elvish magic, the staff was given to him by a Valar when he took physical form, Manwe I assume, who is a lesser God in the LOTR Universe) I would assume they would be able to withstand any spell Voldemort would throw at them.

Gandalf was greatly limited under normal circumstances by the rules the Valar set in place to ensure that no Maiar loyal to Eru would change the course of history on their own merits. I would assume since this is a fight with a being who uses magic as well, he would be able to let loose like he did in his fight with Durin's Bane.

His really good showing is his fight with Durin's Bane, where he tanked blows that I have no doubt would have destroyed Voldemort's physical form. He is only human after all, and possesses human durability. This is a constraint that Gandalf doesnt need to contend with, as he's shown both superhuman endurance and durability several times throughout the books and movies.

We can safely assume that he will be able to shield himself against Voldemort's attacks, as Gandalf's power stems from a higher form of magic (he is essentially a lower level Skyfather in the LOTRU with his Maiar status) than Voldemort's, whose magic stems from the mortal realm.

We also know he possesses the ability to generate enough kinetic force with his staff to shatter the Bridge of Khazak Dum with a single strike, which is a rather large, thick bridge of solid stone spanning a chasm with was at least 60 feet across. He may be able to destroy Voldemort with sheer kinetic force alone.

It really comes down to scale of power....

Gandalf's scale of power >>>> Voldemort's scale of power

And then we can also assume that Gandalf would be able to defeat Voldemort using proxies. He did that to Sauron, a being with far more power than Voldemort has ever dreamed of possessing. It would stand to assume that Gandalf could do this to Voldemort as well, given enough time.

We also know he possesses the ability to generate enough kinetic force with his staff to shatter the Bridge of Khazak Dum with a single strike, which is a rather large, thick bridge of solid stone spanning a chasm with was at least 60 feet across. He may be able to destroy Voldemort with sheer kinetic force alone.

The Bridge of Khazad-dum wasn't just a normal bridge IIRC it had spells and was dwarven made meanig it shouldn't break,that was a huge feat in lore.

And Olórin(Gandalf) is an angelic spirit I don't think he qualifies to lower skyfather,but he is immortal and I don't think mortal magic can affect him.

Istari shield should protect him anyway, and if he gets anywhere near Voldy with either his staff or Glamdring,Voldemort is going to need a new body.Gandalf stomps at close quarters.

Gandalf the White would stomp Voldmort,he even said the only one in Middle-Earth who could challenge him in that form(a fana body,with less restrictions and much more able to use magic) was Sauron himself WITH the One Ring.

PS:Even as Gandalf The White he still wasn't using his full power,only a fraction of it.

Gonna go with book Voldemort.

In his fight against Dumbledore in the fifth book Voldemort was REALLY fast and was very creative in the way he used magic/had good reflexes. He animated objects to fight for him, transmutated substances, in addition to using the Killing Curse. He also kept Apparating around, instantaneously changing his position by teleporting, and I could see this totally throwing Gandalf off.

Plus according to the BOOK (movie doesn't follow this) the Killing Curse is supposed to be ''unblockable.'' It says so in the HP wiki and it said so in at least one book. Chances are Voldemort will fire a Killing Curse at Gandalf who will think it can be blocked by a counter spell or magic only to find himself dead. Sure Gandalf can occasionally block the Killing Curse with a sword or his staff but he doesn't have the reflexes to do this continuously (he's not a Jedi). At some point the Killing Curse will hit a part of him or he'll make the mistake of thinking a counterspell/shield defense could work only to get blown.

Voldemort is too fast (teleports around), creative in his use of spells, and has the unblockable Killing Curse.

I don't think Gandalf has fought an opponent like this...

@goblin123 said:

Gonna go with book Voldemort.

In his fight against Dumbledore in the fifth book Voldemort was REALLY fast and was very creative in the way he used magic/had good reflexes. He animated objects to fight for him, transmutated substances, in addition to using the Killing Curse. He also kept Apparating around, instantaneously changing his position by teleporting, and I could see this totally throwing Gandalf off.

Plus according to the BOOK (movie doesn't follow this) the Killing Curse is supposed to be ''unblockable.'' It says so in the HP wiki and it said so in at least one book. Chances are Voldemort will fire a Killing Curse at Gandalf who will think it can be blocked by a counter spell or magic only to find himself dead. Sure Gandalf can occasionally block the Killing Curse with a sword or his staff but he doesn't have the reflexes to do this continuously (he's not a Jedi). At some point the Killing Curse will hit a part of him or he'll make the mistake of thinking a counterspell/shield defense could work only to get blown.

Voldemort is too fast (teleports around), creative in his use of spells, and has the unblockable Killing Curse.

I don't think Gandalf has fought an opponent like this...

Exactly, and all Gandalf can do is shoot fire and lightning..

Voldemort.

Gandalf can only be killed by his own kind, which tecnically makes him invincible in voldemort universe

Chances are Voldemort will fire a Killing Curse at Gandalf who will think it can be blocked by a counter spell or magic only to find himself dead.

Maiar "Magic">>>HP Magic

It's not as shiny,but it's more powerful in subtle ways.Also Gandalf was able to fight a Balrog for Three days and later he was able to deflect and neutralize an ARROW FROM LEGOLAS AT POINT BLANK so yes he has good reflexes and endurance,also if teenagers with no combat experience could dodge I am sure Gandalf who fought evil for over 2000 years can do it too.Also if it could block and attack from another Maiar his shield will block the killing curse.It's debatable if it would even work on him,given that he isn't human and IIRC only a Maiar can kill a Maiar with magic.

Gandalf held off the 9 Nazgul alone,Voldemort would probably die or flee because his Killing Curse wouldn't work on them because they are already dead(sort of).So I think he can manage fighting from diferent angles.

Also,Voldemort will tire first,Gandalf has his Istari physiology AND Narya which prevents him from tiring too.

@MasterJohn said:

Exactly, and all Gandalf can do is shoot fire and lightning..

Wait, what?

@ShootingNova I know I may not win this debate, but here it goes.

Gandalf used elven fire to ward off spiders in The Hobbit.

I believe he used lightning against hoards of orcs.

I do not see anything where it says Gandalf can withstand a killing curse, absorb a killing curse, shoot a ball of light at someone. I am left to assume all he can do is some elementals.

@MasterJohn said:

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

Voldermort is immortal with his boxy thingies that are hidden all over the world and Gandalf can only get killed by another of his race

Does gandalf have any counter to Avada Kedavra?

Saruman, your staff is broken.

Gandalf single handedly took down a giant fire demon and disarmed Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli without breaking a sweat. Voldemort couldn't beat a clueless kid with glasses.

I must also add that what would Voldermort do robbed of his wand? Gandalf without his staff, still knows how to kick ass. I'm pretty sure Voldemort would be helpless.

Gandalf would just make Voldermort's wand heat up and burst into flame the same way he made Aragorn's sword become white hot and too hot to hold. Without a wand, all Voldemort can do is hiss and maybe apparate.

@Dredeuced said:

Gandalf would just make Voldermort's wand heat up and burst into flame the same way he made Aragorn's sword become white hot and too hot to hold. Without a wand, all Voldemort can do is hiss and maybe apparate.

Whereas Gandalf will cut off his head and destroy the horcruxes at his own leasure.

Voldemort fans will underestimate Gandalf and Gandalf fans will underestimate Voldemort.

@Kellar21 said:

And Olórin(Gandalf) is an angelic spirit I don't think he qualifies to lower skyfather,but he is immortal and I don't think mortal magic can affect him.

Istari shield should protect him anyway, and if he gets anywhere near Voldy with either his staff or Glamdring,Voldemort is going to need a new body.Gandalf stomps at close quarters.

Gandalf the White would stomp Voldmort,he even said the only one in Middle-Earth who could challenge him in that form(a fana body,with less restrictions and much more able to use magic) was Sauron himself WITH the One Ring.

PS:Even as Gandalf The White he still wasn't using his full power,only a fraction of it.

I don't quite understand this distinction between mortal magic. Besides, Gandalf the White was manhandled and had his staff broken by the Witch King in the extended version of the Return of the King

@Nightwing28710 said:

Gandalf single handedly took down a giant fire demon and disarmed Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli without breaking a sweat. Voldemort couldn't beat a clueless kid with glasses.

There would be nothing stopping Voldemort from simply levitating the Balrog off the mountaintop. Though he would likely twist it to his command, instead. How the hell would Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas beat Voldemort? Hit him with their weapons? lol...

@KingOfAsh said:

@Dredeuced said:

Gandalf would just make Voldermort's wand heat up and burst into flame the same way he made Aragorn's sword become white hot and too hot to hold. Without a wand, all Voldemort can do is hiss and maybe apparate.

Whereas Gandalf will cut off his head and destroy the horcruxes at his own leasure.

And Voldemort has no idea how to cast any spells that make things less hot? You've got to be kidding me. You don't need a wand to cast spells, humans just keep wandlore from other races because of greed

How is Gandalf supposed to behead him? Walk up to the guy - who can instantly teleport anywhere with a thought - and swing his sword at him?

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Gandalf has adequate defenses for things such as the killing curse, though if it hit him cleanly he would undoubtedly die. Hexes and other curses would likely be defensible as well, due to his status. I'm willing to bet throughout the entire battle, there would be a battle raging within their minds as much as their bodies. I don't know if Gandalf has any telepathic abilities/feats but he would surely be resistant at least.

Voldemort himself has adequate defenses to Gandalf's spells and curses; while a lightning bolt would KO him if it hit, do you honestly think he hasn't encountered a lightning bolt before? This is the greatest wizard of all time who regularly goes toe-to-toe with the likes of Dumbledore - who created a sea of fire that could drown the entire Mordor army at Minas Tirith. I would say their destructive power is about even.

I honestly don't know who would win here, or how. It would be an epic battle to say the least, and anyone who claims anything other than it would last a long time is dreaming. And in regards to proxies, Voldemort's prep is very impressive, like Gandalf's. Though it is always referred to with demeaning comments like "his plot was picked apart by a couple of dropout teenagers" without pointing out that those teenagers were fucking Harry Potter and Hermione Granger. Those kids would have solved the problem of the One Ring in half the time of the Fellowship, or less.

@MasterJohn: And breaking the Bridge of Khazud-Dum was was an elemental feat now, was it?

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: And breaking the Bridge of Khazud-Dum was was an elemental feat now, was it?

No sir but I am talking actual spells.

@MasterJohn: A feat nonetheless, and something equal to that should be able to be performed in this battle as well.

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: A feat nonetheless, and something equal to that should be able to be performed in this battle as well.

@Hksaru

Makes very very valid points though. Voldemort being able to teleport behind Gandalf with a thought then strike him with a killing curse. Nova, here's what I am asking: Give me a list of things Gandalf can do as creative as Voldemort did them, give me a list of what he can do to stop/kill voldemort in this battle. From what I see, nothing too fancy.

@MasterJohn: And I never declared a winner. Which versions of the characters are these, anyways?

Gandalf the Grey fought for 7 days and finally beats the crap out of that Balrog, any showing of Voldemort doing such feat?

And he was still grey, imagine what he can do as white. Then again if he is in his maiar form, since their human form acts as a sort of restriction in using their native powers.

Horcruxes only mean he can't be utterly destroyed until they are destroyed as well. His body is just as killable as ever, but the horcruxes provide a way for him to come back. So what was it, 11 years before he got his body back after dying in the attack on baby Harry? I think it counts as a victory if you beat your opponent and it takes 11 years for him to recouperate.

Gandalf annihilates Voldemort who is basically Street Level.

@Ultra_Girl_ said:

@ShootingNova:Voldermort is immortal with his boxy thingies that are hidden all over the world and Gandalf can only get killed by another of his race

• Wrong mate, a Maia can be killed by non-Maia's.
• A maia named Gothmog got killed by Ecthelion
• Saruman bit the dust by Wormtongue
• Sauron got beaten by who? (Last alliance)

In this thread, please do not confuse immortality with invulnerability. Elves are immortal, yet can be killed, their immortality is in the sense that they do not age, but they're not invulnerable.

Gandalf's physical form can be killed, but not his soul. Say Sauron, he got killed (physically) 3 times.

• During the destruction of Numenor
• Last Alliance (Came back and known as the Necromancer)
• LOTR

On those occasions, only his physical form was killed/destroyed, not his soul. He was able to come back, except the 3rd one because he was already too weak to take physical form again, since his ring got destroyed (most of his native powers were transferred to the ring).

Another, Morgoth, a Vala. If he can be killed, why then the Valar imprisoned him in the Void if they can just kill him right?

Saruman, owned by Grimma but his soul lives, but like Sauron in weakened state, cannot take physical form anymore..

IMO, you can't beat someone who have god (Eru) on his side.

@SSJLozza said:

Gandalf annihilates Voldemort who is basically Street Level.

a street leveller who leads a nation and armies in battle...

@Hksaru: Which nation would that be? And if he gets his army, then Gandalf gets the Rohirrim (Not that he needs them).

@SSJLozza: Or an army of eagles or elves.

@afueikawa

Gandalf the Grey fought for 7 days and finally beats the crap out of that Balrog,

A featless balrog if I might add.

any showing of Voldemort doing such feat?

He has summoned a fire worm before.

And he was still grey, imagine what he can do as white.

I don't want to imagine, I want to see FEATS. Plus, Gandalf never mentioned 7 days in the balrog fight. The entire battle between Gandalf and Balrog:

"The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils. But Gandalf stood firm. `You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. `I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.' The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm. From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming. Glamdring glittered white in answer. There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back and its sword flew up in molten fragments. The wizard swayed on the bridge, stepped back a pace, and then again stood still. 'You cannot pass! ' he said. With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed. 'He cannot stand alone! ' cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. '_Elendil!_' he shouted. 'I am with you, Gandalf! ' `Gondor! ' cried Boromir and leaped after him. At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke asunder and fell from his hand. A blinding sheet of white flame sprang up. The bridge cracked. Right at the Balrog's feet it broke, and the stone upon which it stood crashed into the gulf, while the rest remained, poised, quivering like a tongue of rock thrust out into emptiness. With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and its shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard's knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. 'Fly, you fools! ' he cried, and was gone." - Lord of the Rings; Fellowship of the Ring

The ability to teleport around and attack from random angles gives Voldemort the ultimate advantage/initiative over Gandalf in my opinion. Plus his Killing Curse is unblockable...

The key here is speed, maneuverability and creativity. Voldemort is far superior when it comes to those things (he teleports, is a master of transfiguration, has been shown to think quickly on his feet in a magic duel against Dumbledore etc). Gandalf is relatively featless compared to Voldemort. When has he prevailed in a duel against an opponent with feats? The Balrog was featless and so for all we know had Volde been in Gandalf's shoes may have simply cast a Killing Curse and knocked the Balrog out in a few seconds as compared to it taking ''seven days'' for Gandalf.

It is implied that Gandalf is extremely powerful but we never see him in a battle against other magic users in which he displays fast reflexes, great creativity etc on the same level that Voldemort shows.

This probably how the fight would go down...

Voldemort walks down a street. Gandalf stands in front of him looking all tough and shouts: ''YOU SHALL NOT PASS!''

Voldemort teleports and re-appears behind Gandalf in a second. Voldemort casts a Killing Curse, Gandalf turns and gets hit.

Gandalf falls over.

A featless balrog if I might add.

He destroyed Durin's realm and eslaved the orcs inside the mines IIRC.

I don't want to imagine, I want to see FEATS. Plus, Gandalf never mentioned 7 days in the balrog fight. The entire battle between Gandalf and Balrog:

That's not the entire fight not at all,and it was three days,Gandalf after tells Aragorn,Legolas and Gimli in The Two Towers about the rest of it.How they got up to the highest peak and all that.

An army?You mean that cult of his?Please,had the United Kingdom sent some snipers from SAS Voldy would have to use another Horcrux.

He only managed to manipulate an already weak and disfunctional ministry who was more concerned on public opinion than security,his final battle was at a school.

@Kellar21:

Yeah but Durin's Realm and the orcs were not magic users right?

I mean, Voldemort could have enslaved them too.

How does this show that Gandalf prevailed over someone who was a master of magic? If Voldemort had been in Gandalf's shoes a simple Killing Curse would have taken the Balrog in a few seconds and it would not have taken him seven days.