game of thrones vs elder scrolls

@princearagorn1: Anyway Bran isn't the GoT character that I'm supposed to be debating with you.

Elder Scrolls wins. Far superior magic and way more powerful creatures. Outside of the White Walkers and Dragons, nobody on Westeros could do anything to the smorgasbord of threats that are on Tamriel.

The dragons were wiped out before, and Tamriel could do it again. They don't need a Dragonborn to put a dragon in the dirt, they just need one to permanently kill it to prevent Alduin from raising it again.

@kundelar: Fair enough, been a while since I played Skyrim.

@the_red_viper: Ebony​ weapons are obsidian. In game you can read about it and it says it's a kind of dark material "glass-like volcanic substance", and Sven says "Ebony can only be worked when heated. It will develop small cracks that eventually shatter the material if hammered cold. Unlike most other armors, Ebony will not alloy with iron. It must be used pure." That's obsidian if you ask me. However this isn't that clear and can be debatable.

OT: I don't see a white walker surviving a magic fireball to the face, or a lighting chain. White walkers does not have feats to suggest they could survive getting stomped by a giant, or melted by dragon's fire. Imo a fire attronach should make quick work of the white walkers: If the come close they will burn, Attronachs can use ranged fire attacks, and if they get killed they explode burning everyone around them. Greybars should make quick work of anyone in GoT side. TES has better equipment, superhuman people everywhere, mages everywhere, more dragons, Necromancers who can also control dead people to counter White walkers, mages can summon dremoras, Miraak has a spell powerful enough to one shot a dragon. Then there are people who can use unrelenting force to ragdoll white walkers or disarm to... Well, disarm them, Wabbajaback can one shot anyone, vampires are immune to cold attacks and can drain the vitality of anyone, and Lord vampires can ragdoll even Giants from far away. And then we have armies of Dwarven robots which can also attack with fire and lighting, Auriel's bow is a perfect weapon to fight white walkers and their army, mages can heal people from almost-death to perfectly-fine, etc

Dragonborn alone should solo the White walkers, just shot them with Auriel's bow and that's it, or slow down time and cut their heads off with a fire sword, or use a fire shout (any grewbard would do that too)

TES stomps.

GoT Dragonglass is imbued with CotF magic or some other sort of magic which is what allows them to harm White Walkers. Giants stomping on them is nice but by the same token there's nothing stopping the (faster) White Walkers from killing the giants with their magic blades. Also, GoT's giants seem far bigger, more powerful, more intelligent and more battle-oriented than TES giants. Example:

The Wall is over 700 feet.

Fire won't work against White Walkers because:

White Walkers also bring winter wherever they go. Weather can be the deciding factor that brings even the most powerful armies down, for example when the Nazis tried invading Russia.

Other than that there are Greenseers and wargs, and their abilities are, as far as I know, unlike anything that exists in the TES verse. Miraak and such falls under "godlike beings" since Dovahkiin does too. Dragons are also a non-factor because there's no Alduin to bring them back from the dead.

In any case, GoT actually has commanders with actual feats to suggest they can create brilliant strategies to win battles. As far as I know, there's not a single figure in TES that comes close to the brilliance of Stannis Baratheon, Robert Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Randyll Tarly, Mance Rayder, heck even Robb Stark.

Also, does any necromancer in TES has a feat remotely close to this?

The White Walkers can reanimate anything that dies and make it their thrall. In the thousands.

Auriel's Bow and the Wabbajack are one-of-a-kind weapons. These two alone can't take on hordes of that caliber.

I do think that TES can win, but it's FAR from a stomp.

@the_red_viper said:

@thecrazybean said:

@the_red_viper: Ebony​ weapons are obsidian. In game you can read about it and it says it's a kind of dark material "glass-like volcanic substance", and Sven says "Ebony can only be worked when heated. It will develop small cracks that eventually shatter the material if hammered cold. Unlike most other armors, Ebony will not alloy with iron. It must be used pure." That's obsidian if you ask me. However this isn't that clear and can be debatable.

OT: I don't see a white walker surviving a magic fireball to the face, or a lighting chain. White walkers does not have feats to suggest they could survive getting stomped by a giant, or melted by dragon's fire. Imo a fire attronach should make quick work of the white walkers: If the come close they will burn, Attronachs can use ranged fire attacks, and if they get killed they explode burning everyone around them. Greybars should make quick work of anyone in GoT side. TES has better equipment, superhuman people everywhere, mages everywhere, more dragons, Necromancers who can also control dead people to counter White walkers, mages can summon dremoras, Miraak has a spell powerful enough to one shot a dragon. Then there are people who can use unrelenting force to ragdoll white walkers or disarm to... Well, disarm them, Wabbajaback can one shot anyone, vampires are immune to cold attacks and can drain the vitality of anyone, and Lord vampires can ragdoll even Giants from far away. And then we have armies of Dwarven robots which can also attack with fire and lighting, Auriel's bow is a perfect weapon to fight white walkers and their army , etc.

TES stomps.

GoT Dragonglass is imbued with CotF magic or some other sort of magic which is what allows them to harm White Walkers. Giants stomping on them is nice but by the same token there's nothing stopping the (faster) White Walkers from killing the giants with their magic blades. Also, GoT's giants seem far bigger, more powerful, more intelligent and more battle-oriented than TES giants. Example:

The Wall is over 700 feet.

Fire won't work against White Walkers because:

White Walkers also bring winter wherever they go. Weather can be the deciding factor that brings even the most powerful armies down, for example when the Nazis tried invading Russia.

Other than that there are Greenseers and wargs, and their abilities are, as far as I know, unlike anything that exists in the TES verse. Miraak and such falls under "godlike beings" since Dovahkiin does too. Dragons are also a non-factor because there's no Alduin to bring them back from the dead.

In any case, GoT actually has commanders with actual feats to suggest they can create brilliant strategies to win battles. As far as I know, there's not a single figure in TES that comes close to the brilliance of Stannis Baratheon, Robert Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Randyll Tarly, Mance Rayder, heck even Robb Stark.

Also, does any necromancer in TES has a feat remotely close to this?

Loading Video...

The White Walkers can reanimate anything that dies and make it their thrall. In the thousands.

Auriel's Bow and the Wabbajack are one-of-a-kind weapons. These two alone can't take on hordes of that caliber.

I do think that TES can win, but it's FAR from a stomp.

Greybards have a shout called "clear skies" that pretty much makes the "White walkers bring winter" useless. And all nords have natural magic resistance to cold so that wouldn't harm them either.

Agree with the giants, GoT giants seem more intelligent, but I wasn't argung about giants vs giants, i was saying that white walkers would get killed by a stomp of them, and there's not prove that they would survive.

Where it is stated that GoT dragonglass has magic properties? In the other hand TES weapons can be enchanted with fire spells, that would make even average iron swords a good weapon against white walkers, and even non enchanted daedric weapons are built with magic (using daedra hearths). And how does that gif proves they are immune to fire? Even a firefigther would walk through that thin line of fire... Plus, that was common fire, TES fire is magic, and mages can create fire cloack spells and magic traps. In that gif fire doesn't even touches the White Walkers, that does not prove they can survive it, just that they can dissipate a really thin line of fire... There´s no proof they would survive magic firebolts, ligthing and fire runes, incineration, a wall of flames or a fire storm

OP didn't say anything about prep so commanders are just here to improvisse. And TES army also includ Thalmor, whose magic abilities is way above even top magicians in Skyrim, wood elves who can control animals (way easier that wargs can), and redguars who would stomp any GoT warrior (ebony warrior, anyone?).

Jon used a torch to kill those thralls, a fire storm wold be enough to kill hundreds of thralls in a single attack, let alone an entire army of Thalmor using this spells, they would make quick work of the zombies.

Alduin may not be there, but the dragons should be, even after killing Aldin there are dragons in Skyrim.

The ritual stone (the one anyone can use if they go to the ritual stone pilar and some necromancers use against you) does something similar to that last gif, with the advantage that the reanimated soldiers keep their inteligence and figthing skills and are not weak to a torch...

Ebony Warrior solos

@thecrazybean:

Greybards have a shout called "clear skies" that pretty much makes the "White walkers bring winter" useless. And all nords have natural magic resistance to cold so that wouldn't harm them either.

Well Tamriel isn't all snowy, that's only parts of Skyrim. And aren't the Greybeards supposed to stay out of conflicts or something like that?

Agree with the giants, GoT giants seem more intelligent, but I wasn't argung about giants vs giants, i was saying that white walkers would get killed by a stomp of them, and there's not prove that they would survive.

Well that's the thing though, White Walkers won't be so easily stomped on. They're actually fairly skilled fighters, they have pretty good speed and reflexes. They won't go down easily to any physical force.

Where it is stated that GoT dragonglass has magic properties?

White Walkers were created using dragonglass which is why it's specifically effective against them. Also, a statement by GRRM on the properties of dragonglass:

"Magical characteristics that of course real obsidian doesn't necessarily have. After all, we live in a world that has no magic. My world does have magic, so it's a little bit different."

There are also candles made out of dragonglass, and when they burn, people who look through them can see across enormous distances and see visions of the past. It has some magic in it, that is for sure, and logically the fact that it was used to create the White Walkers in the first place is what makes them an ideal weapon against them. In the Long Night (the original war against the White Walkers), the only things that were documented as having any effect on the White Walkers were dragonglass and dragonsteel (probably Valyrian Steel), both of which are magical in nature. The Long Night lasted a generation and it is most likely that fire WAS tried as a weapon against the White Walkers and simply failed, otherwise it would have been specified along with dragonglass and dragonsteel.

In the other hand TES weapons can be enchanted with fire spells, that would make even average iron swords a good weapon against white walkers, and even non enchanted daedric weapons are built with magic (using daedra hearths). And how does that gif proves they are immune to fire? Even a firefigther would walk through that thin line of fire...

Look at the GIF again. They didn't walk through the fire, the fire literally moved away when they approached. Here it happens again, it seems like fire just can't touch them:

See? The fire kinda just moves away. I think it's because no fire can burn too close to them because of the cold, but that's just my guess, after all, they can freeze substances by touch in under 5 seconds to the point they're shattered:

By the time the TES forces realize they are facing a very unconventional foe, the White Walkers would tear apart and reanimate entire legions.

Plus, that was common fire, TES fire is magic, and mages can create fire cloack spells and magic traps. In that gif fire doesn't even touches the White Walkers, that does not prove they can survive it, just that they can dissipate a really thin line of fire... There´s no proof they would survive magic firebolts, ligthing and fire runes, incineration, a wall of flames or a fire storm

Not really conventional fire, it was created by CotF fire-bombs. There was something unnatural about them for sure, the CotF are a very magic-based species. Fire just can't burn in a certain radius around them, that's all there is to it.

OP didn't say anything about prep so commanders are just here to improvisse. And TES army also includ Thalmor, whose magic abilities is way above even top magicians in Skyrim, wood elves who can control animals (way easier that wargs can), and redguars who would stomp any GoT warrior (ebony warrior, anyone?).

There doesn't have to be prep, good commanders can win battles even without prep. To what extent can Bosmer control animals? The warg Varamyr Sixskins can control six animals simultaneously as implied by his name (which are 3 wolves, a bear, a shadowcat and an eagle). Regarding magic, there are also the warlocks of the House of the Undying, While little is known on their abilities, they do have some magical abilities. Teleportation at least is pretty much confirmed. Other than that there are greenseers that can warg into people's past and affect them from there (like Bran unintentionally kinda mind-wiped Hodor as a child). Also the Faceless Men who are the perfect tools for espionage and can assassinate any important figures and leaders undetected.

Any feats for the Ebony Warrior, or any Redguard for that matter, to put him above the elites in GoT? Does the Ebony Warrior (I'm guessing he is the best one they have to offer) have any feats to suggest he can beat, say, the Mountain? or the Hound? or Jaime Lannister?

Jon used a torch to kill those thralls, a fire storm wold be enough to kill hundreds of thralls in a single attack, let alone an entire army of Thalmor using this spells, they would make quick work of the zombies.

As far as I recall, in the game, fire storms aren't that large. Is there anything in the lore that describes firestorms that can kill hundreds of wights? In any case, what matters is that anything killed by the White Walkers or the wights (and wasn't burned) will be reanimated.

Alduin may not be there, but the dragons should be, even after killing Aldin there are dragons in Skyrim.

That's more of a gameplay mechanic... the dragons are there so that the protagonist can absorb more souls and unlock all the shouts, and besides the dragon fights are the best action bits of gameplay.

The ritual stone (the one anyone can use if they go to the ritual stone pilar and some necromancers use against you) does something similar to that last gif, with the advantage that the reanimated soldiers keep their inteligence and figthing skills and are not weak to a torch...

Elaborate?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=piOmc_L8W2o

/thread

"Well Tamriel isn't all snowy, that's only parts of Skyrim."

Yeah, but all nords, even if they are from not snowy parts of Skyrim have magic cold resistance and a single greybard is more than enough to use "clear skies"

"And aren't the Greybeards supposed to stay out of conflicts or something like that?"

Yep, but for battle porpuses they will participate, is like saying White walkers would kill all the humans in GoT team. Yeah, they would, but for porpuses of the battle they will collaborate, it's the same with the greybars, usually they would stay away, but for this battle porpuses they will participate, and we also have the Dragon priests and random guys who learned to shout (Ulfric stormcloack, ebony warrior, draught Lord's, etc)

"Well that's the thing though, White Walkers won't be so easily stomped on. They're actually fairly skilled fighters, they have pretty good speed and reflexes. They won't go down easily to any physical force."

White walkers aren't that skilled. In the first chapter of ASOIAF one white walker was matched by that random Knight until his blade broke. One got killed by Jon (though I concede it was because he was surprised Jon's sword didn't break). They are good, but nothing really special. They are pretty fast, but they'll get tagged eventually, and since they have no feats tanking lighting (common spell used by mages) or fireballs or a giant's cub in the head I say they will go down eventually, not easy (they can dodge giants for some time), but eventually. Or do you have any feat to prove a White walker could tank a lighting bolt? Or a lighting storm?

" White Walkers were created using dragonglass which is why it's specifically effective against them. Also, a statement by GRRM on the properties of dragonglass:

'Magical characteristics that of course real obsidian doesn't necessarily have. After all, we live in a world that has no magic. My world does have magic, so it's a little bit different.'

There are also candles made out of dragonglass, and when they burn, people who look through them can see across enormous distances and see visions of the past. It has some magic in it, that is for sure, and logically the fact that it was used to create the White Walkers in the first place is what makes them an ideal weapon against them."

Fair enough, Ebony is different from Dragonglass

"In the Long Night (the original war against the White Walkers), the only things that were documented as having any effect on the White Walkers were dragonglass and dragonsteel (probably Valyrian Steel), both of which are magical in nature. The Long Night lasted a generation and it is most likely that fire WAS tried as a weapon against the White Walkers and simply failed, otherwise it would have been specified along with dragonglass and dragonsteel."

But it wasn't documented as useless against them either.

"Look at the GIF again. They didn't walk through the fire, the fire literally moved away when they approached. Here it happens again, it seems like fire just can't touch them:

See? The fire kinda just moves away. I think it's because no fire can burn too close to them because of the cold, but that's just my guess, after all, they can freeze substances by touch in under 5 seconds to the point they're shattered"

Freeze things in 5 seconds is something any magician would do in TES (and in less time). I see your point, they walked and fire kinda moved away, but it was conventional fire, hell, a fire extinguisher would do the same. Magic fire is different, and flames are constant since the magicians are spamming a lot of them focused in a single objective. And I see no way they can deal with fire cloaks or fire runes. A soldier with a fire cloak would cut through White walkers' army like a hot knife through butter.

"By the time the TES forces realize they are facing a very unconventional foe, the White Walkers would tear apart and reanimate entire legions."

Not really, necromancy is very common in TES, and TES army can reanimate legions just as easy. Actually TES reanimated army is better than White walkers reanimated army, since people/animals reanimated by TES Necromancers are not specially weak to fire, conserve their intelligence, abilities, skill, magic, etc. In the other hand White walkers' thralls are stupid, weak to fire and lack skill. And there are people in Skyrim with magic capable of stealing other's people summonings, which means they can use White walkers army against GoT army. Cool, right? TES army is a much more unconventional than GoT army.

"Not really conventional fire, it was created by CotF fire-bombs. There was something unnatural about them for sure, the CotF are a very magic-based species. Fire just can't burn in a certain radius around them, that's all there is to it."

The only impressive is the way those bombs exploded, nothing close to fire storms or fireballs, not even close to the novice "flames" spell which works pretty much as a flamethrower. And even if we suppose white walkers can somehow deal with TES magic fire, how are they dealing with thunders and lighting bolts? Really, a single lighting bolt should be more than enough to kill a white walker.

"There doesn't have to be prep, good commanders can win battles even without prep."

Well, best GoT strategies required a prep. And GoT commanders have no idea how to deal with magic, dragons, fire and lighting storms and TES unique creatures (chaurus, falmers, dragons, Attronachs, etc). Any draught Lord, greybard, or anyone who can shout would make quick work of a GoT formation. Conjurer's can summon Fire and Thunder Attronachs from the distance. Half of GoT army would be death by Attronachs, magic and arrows before engaging in close combat against TES army...

"what extent can Bosmer control animals? The warg Varamyr Sixskins can control six animals simultaneously as implied by his name (which are 3 wolves, a bear, a shadowcat and an eagle)."

They can control any animal close to them, doesn't matter the quantity or the kind of animal. They can control 50 Mammoths, 100 wolves, and 200 Sabre cats if there are that quantity of animals near them, and they can do it without sacrificing their capability of fighting, in the other hand GoT wargs can't properly control their body if the animal they are controlling is powerful. GoT wargs would have a hard time controlling a Mammoth, TES Bosmer Can casually do it with a lot of Mammoths, and keep fighting by their own, conjuring spells and using swords perfectly while controlling the animals at the same time

Bosmer animal control is way better than GoT warg's animal control.

"Regarding magic, there are also the warlocks of the House of the Undying, While little is known on their abilities, they do have some magical abilities. Teleportation at least is pretty much confirmed. Other than that there are greenseers that can warg into people's past and affect them from there (like Bran unintentionally kinda mind-wiped Hodor as a child). Also the Faceless Men who are the perfect tools for espionage and can assassinate any important figures and leaders undetected."

Faceless men are awesome for assassinations, but this is a large scale battle, Faceless men won't be of a lot of help here, they maybe could be send to kill the emperor of something, but that would not change the outcome of this battle. And TES army has the Dark brotherhood which is pretty much the same, even better since it includes magicians and vampires...

Yeah, greenseers can do that, but there are not that much of them and it would take them a lot of time to affect a single person, plus Bran is the most powerful Greenseing and warg around there, so not all of them should be able to do the same thing Bran did to Hodor (plus we can argue that the reason it affected Hodor was because he was dying at that moment, so there's another factor to take in consideration). With their small quantity and the time it takes them to affect someone, Wargs and greenseers are non factor here. Warlocks are featless.

"Any feats for the Ebony Warrior, or any Redguard for that matter, to put him above the elites in GoT? Does the Ebony Warrior (I'm guessing he is the best one they have to offer) have any feats to suggest he can beat, say, the Mountain? or the Hound? or Jaime Lannister?".

Ebony warrior (who is a redguard) would kill The mountain, The hound, Jaime, and Barristan at the same time without trying. He can shout, his armour makes him almost invincible, he has fast healing so when he is close to death he can heal himself, he has enchanted armour, bow, and sword. This guy can kill Miraak, the greybars, can slain several dragons at the same time and win to anyone you make him fight against (but Karstaag) with relatively ease. Karstaag would kill all GoT elites like in 5 seconds. And since the ebony warrior is just a Redguard and Karstaag just a Ice giant they are allowed by OP.

"As far as I recall, in the game, fire storms aren't that large. Is there anything in the lore that describes firestorms that can kill hundreds of wights?"

No, firestorms are not that big but if a torch can kill a wight a firestorm should be able to kill dozens around the conjurer, a fire wall will kill every single one who tries to pass the wall, and "flames" would make quick work of several waves of wights.

"In any case, what matters is that anything killed by the White Walkers or the wights (and wasn't burned) will be reanimated."

Not if TES Necromancers do it first, and even if they are reanimated by the white walkers TES mages would kill them easily.

"That's more of a gameplay mechanic... the dragons are there so that the protagonist can absorb more souls and unlock all the shouts, and besides the dragon fights are the best action bits of gameplay."

Not really, Alduin resurrect hundreds of dragons, even if Alduis dies those dragons are still alive, Alduin's death only prevent other dragons to be resurrected, but that doesn't kill those who are already alive. Paranthanux was there before Alduin's arrival. TES has way more, more versatile, and more powerful dragons than GoT.

"Elaborate?"

Yep, I thought you knew about the ritual Stone :P

The ritual stone grants anyone who goes to a place called "The ritual stone" and activated the power stone the power to resurrect anything around them and make them fight for him, since chickens to Giants and Mammoths. It's an amazing power to have. When you first go there you encounter 2 or 3 Necromancers there, they use it to make skeletons, death animals and death persons fight the Dragonborn.

If you resurrect someone that person still retains his abilities, intelligence and skill, which make them way more effective than White walkers' Wights.

The Elder Scrolls world is realistic size, but game limitations and just making an empty space the size of a real country would take alot. As for the battle their world stomps easily.

@reikai: Wow, that video is amazing.

Elder Scrolls easily

@the_red_viper: oh, and another thing. Bosmer makes GoT cavarly and Mammoths useless. A single Wood elf can use animal allegiance to control all the horses charging at him and watch the Knights get killed by their own horses, and the Giants get killed by their own Mammoths.

The Elder Scroll should win here.Although the walkers can be an issue.

This is how it would go (won't include dragons to make it more fun):

Chapter one: Ranged confrontation.

Both armies start at opposite sides. TES army feels the cold when the enemy aproaches, it's like if winter just fell down from nowhere, but they know they can trust the Greybards who shout Lok vah koor. When this words reach the sky winter retreats and sunlight and warm return to the battlefield. Both armies start with ranged weapons, GoT army uses their archers, and soldiers cover themseves with their shields, TES army does the same, their archers uses their bows too, and their soldiers also cover with shields, however mages use fireballs and ligthing bolts to increase TES firepower, some of these mages hide behind a wall of shieds to avoid getting tagged by arrows, some others use shields in one hand while attacking with the other, at the same time conjurers invoke fire and storm atronachs to help them in battle. In the frontline of TES army dwerven machines are ready to tank most of enemies arrows, healers are ready to cure anyone who gets hit by an arrow. In the other hand GoT army is in trouble, since some TES arrows are enchanted, even if GoT soldiers block them they still get burned or shocked, plus fireballs and ligthing bolts used by atronachs and mages are making their shields and armours useless. Since most people in GoT army is getting burn White walkers won't be able to resurrect them.

TES army loses few people, most people injured are healed by mages and the few who die will be brought back to life by necromancers, in the other hand GoT army has several losses, fire atronachs and fireballs make quick work of Wights and soldiers. burned enemies can't be brought back by White walkers, but Necromancers have no poblems in resurrecting burned people ...

Chapter two: Charge

GoT army is no rival to TES army at distance, there's no other option than charge. Cavalry get's ready, they charge. Horses run as fast as they can, knights are nervous but they ride for glory, they need to destroy the enemy's frontline and get rid of those mages and elves, coward bastards who cover behind magic tricks to fight. They are close, fireballs burn a lot of horses and men but they don't stop the charge, they are closer every second, but then everything goes wrong. Horses get mad and stop the charging, knights fall to the ground and their beloved horses kill them with their kicks. Those who are still alive stand up just to get killed by an arrow or a fireball. Bosmer in TES army smile, those stupid knights thought their beloved horses were loyal to them, but when a Bosmer gives an order, animals must obey. Now it's time for the Necromancers and vampires to show their power, they stand in the frontline and resurrects the enemy death knigths, they stand up, ride their horses again and charge, but now they are not charging against TES army, they are charging against their formers allies. Dwarven machines charge along them, dwarven fire spiders and centurions start burning everything while spheres use their blades and bolts to decimate the enemies. Fireballs, ligthing bolts and arrows are still decimating GoT army, and machines and resurrected knigth are destroying their frontline. TES army charges, mages go first using their spells to kill everyone in sight, and conjuring atronachs. Their spells destroy entire squads, Draught lords and anyone capable of shouting destroy the defensive formations Westerosis have taken. Those burned are resurrected by necromancers, and those killed by the blade are being brought back to life by White walkers and Necromancers.

GoT Soldiers are not rival to worewolves, vampires, and giants and mages.

GoT's army losses a lot of soldiers and their morale is down, TES' army is almost intact and ready to keep fighting. All those burned have joined Tamriel's army, and Necromancers and White walkers are figthing to gain control over the body of those fallen by the sword

Final chapter: The last stand

GoT's giants are busy fightig against their own Mammoth, White walkers have joinend the fight in an actively way and are killing dozens of enemies soldiers, but most GoT (living) humans have already fleed from the battlefield and Wights melt like snowflakes to atronachs and mages fire. White walkers try to stand together to resist, but one by one they fall to the magic of their enemies. One stood over a rune of fire, when it exploded he fell to the ground and enemy mages used their fire and ligthing to ensure he would never stand up again. Another almost reached a greybard, but when he was near to cut his head off the words Fus Ro Dah threw him to the ground then something as hot as dragon fire left that greybard's mouth and burned the white walker. Another one got surrounded by dozens of enemies, he killed most of them but someone managed to cut him once, then someone else cut him again, at the end he fell dead with dozens of cuts in is body. White walkers killed hundreds by themselves, but all of them fell. When only the nigth king was there he looked around himself and only saw melted snow. A shout disarmed him, and then a dozen of soldiers attacked him, elves and mages used their magic on him. The nigth king grabbed one enemy from the neck, but his arm got cut, fire and sparks reached his body and he vanished, retunrning to the darkness he came from.

All the creatures and people of Tamriel returned home, some lives where lost, but it wasn't that bad, they sweeped the floor with their enemy, their magic, army and equipment were way to much for their rivals. Some hundred of soldiers lost in comparison to the thousands the nemy lost.

GoT army never stood a chance.

@the_red_viper: @tparks:

The ones that we have seen however, are capable of flat out mind control, or paralysing opponents with a gesture that isn't broken even when the target is getting lethal hits. Whitewalkers shouldn't be a problem for tamriel with those around. Shouldn't be a problem for high level mages like psijic order to just undo the magic keeping white walkers alive if they really feel like getting involved. Just restricting tamriel Gods is not enough for GoT to stand a chance.

@princearagorn1: But a very small handful of those who are capable of illusion, aren't really a reason why White Walkers would be countered. Specially considering that it takes a Master Illusionist to even influence the mind of undead or daedra, which are the two most similar beings to White Walkers in Elder Scrolls. And if you don't accept that they are similar to undead or deaedra, they should at least be considered "high level", as they would be one of the most powerful creatures in Tamriel, and it takes a master illusionist to use any illusion spells on "high level" beings. That's like a total of 5 or 6 characters in all of Tamriel who might have some effect with illusion on White Walkers. And even then, that's not mind control, only small influences that cause things like fear or courage, but no actual mind control. There are actually hardly any instances of mind control in Elder Scrolls. Even controlling lesser minds like small animals isn't really all that common of an ability, even for very skilled mages. The most they can do is just influence their minds, like calm them or put them into a rage.

The Dragon Born's powers come from a god, soooo...

@tparks:

Not seeing why a handful won't be enough - even saying they can't solo one on one, we already have instances of non top tier mages paralysing undead with a gesture - and there are a hell of a lot more mages in skyrim itself than 5 or 6. Whitewalkers, who have no defenses to something like that, are easy prey for a small party.

@thecrazybean:

Yeah, but all nords, even if they are from not snowy parts of Skyrim have magic cold resistance and a single greybard is more than enough to use "clear skies"

OK, so only the Nords can survive the White Walkers' winter. All the other races will die. Cool.

Yep, but for battle porpuses they will participate, is like saying White walkers would kill all the humans in GoT team. Yeah, they would, but for porpuses of the battle they will collaborate, it's the same with the greybars, usually they would stay away, but for this battle porpuses they will participate, and we also have the Dragon priests and random guys who learned to shout (Ulfric stormcloack, ebony warrior, draught Lord's, etc)

Why? Who said so? They aren't warriors and they don't participate in wars, why should they take part in this one? It's completely different. The White Walkers are a warring species, the Graybeards are not. There are rivalries between species and races in the TES world as well. It has nothing to do with it.

White walkers aren't that skilled. In the first chapter of ASOIAF one white walker was matched by that random Knight until his blade broke. One got killed by Jon (though I concede it was because he was surprised Jon's sword didn't break). They are good, but nothing really special. They are pretty fast, but they'll get tagged eventually, and since they have no feats tanking lighting (common spell used by mages) or fireballs or a giant's cub in the head I say they will go down eventually, not easy (they can dodge giants for some time), but eventually. Or do you have any feat to prove a White walker could tank a lighting bolt? Or a lighting storm?

Being matched by a highborn knight doesn't mean that they aren't skilled... knights are trained to fight every day from the age of 7 pretty much. The TES giants are not a threat to White Walkers. Also, you are exaggerating the amount of mages that can be found in TES. There are entire cities with not a single mage in them, not to mention mages adept enough to actually use lightning storms and such. White Walkers could single-handedly conquer entire cities in Tamriel.

But it wasn't documented as useless against them either.

Yeeeeeah not the best argument you could come up with.

Freeze things in 5 seconds is something any magician would do in TES (and in less time). I see your point, they walked and fire kinda moved away, but it was conventional fire, hell, a fire extinguisher would do the same. Magic fire is different, and flames are constant since the magicians are spamming a lot of them focused in a single objective. And I see no way they can deal with fire cloaks or fire runes. A soldier with a fire cloak would cut through White walkers' army like a hot knife through butter.

Freeze it to the point it shatters into confetti? I don't recall ever seeing anything like that happen in TES. Anyway, look again at the GIFs... the fire moved away when they came, then got back to where it was when they moved away. It's like they have some fire-proof aura around them or something. And please explain to me how "magical fire" is any different from "conventional fire". Does it burn differently? Does it burn hotter? What's the real difference?

Not really, necromancy is very common in TES, and TES army can reanimate legions just as easy. Actually TES reanimated army is better than White walkers reanimated army, since people/animals reanimated by TES Necromancers are not specially weak to fire, conserve their intelligence, abilities, skill, magic, etc. In the other hand White walkers' thralls are stupid, weak to fire and lack skill. And there are people in Skyrim with magic capable of stealing other's people summonings, which means they can use White walkers army against GoT army. Cool, right? TES army is a much more unconventional than GoT army.

Show me a necromancer resurrecting thousands of dead bodies in 1 second like the Night King did. Also, if necromancy is so common, please name me 5 necromancers on that caliber (not that 5 could make a difference, there are far more White Walkers anyway).

The only impressive is the way those bombs exploded, nothing close to fire storms or fireballs, not even close to the novice "flames" spell which works pretty much as a flamethrower. And even if we suppose white walkers can somehow deal with TES magic fire, how are they dealing with thunders and lighting bolts? Really, a single lighting bolt should be more than enough to kill a white walker.

The mage who casts this lightning bolt will have to deal with hordes of wights trying to kill him. One good stab is all it would take.

Well, best GoT strategies required a prep. And GoT commanders have no idea how to deal with magic, dragons, fire and lighting storms and TES unique creatures (chaurus, falmers, dragons, Attronachs, etc). Any draught Lord, greybard, or anyone who can shout would make quick work of a GoT formation. Conjurer's can summon Fire and Thunder Attronachs from the distance. Half of GoT army would be death by Attronachs, magic and arrows before engaging in close combat against TES army...

Yes, all best strategies require prep, but Robert Baratheon for example won 3 battles in 1 day in his rebellion, I'm fairly sure he had no prep for each battle separately. Anyway, what special knowledge do you need to kill those creatures? Same can be said on White Walkers except you actually do need prior knowledge on them in order to kill them.

They can control any animal close to them, doesn't matter the quantity or the kind of animal. They can control 50 Mammoths, 100 wolves, and 200 Sabre cats if there are that quantity of animals near them, and they can do it without sacrificing their capability of fighting, in the other hand GoT wargs can't properly control their body if the animal they are controlling is powerful. GoT wargs would have a hard time controlling a Mammoth, TES Bosmer Can casually do it with a lot of Mammoths, and keep fighting by their own, conjuring spells and using swords perfectly while controlling the animals at the same time

Bosmer animal control is way better than GoT warg's animal control.

Yeah OK now please give me actual info, not gameplay mechanics.

Faceless men are awesome for assassinations, but this is a large scale battle, Faceless men won't be of a lot of help here, they maybe could be send to kill the emperor of something, but that would not change the outcome of this battle. And TES army has the Dark brotherhood which is pretty much the same, even better since it includes magicians and vampires...

Except the Faceless Men can wear the face of anyone they want. They can infiltrate the castles of the greatest leaders wearing the face of servants or even members of the royal family, and put a knife at the rulers' hearts without anyone knowing what happened. The Dark Brotherhood would have to do this the hard way, and the ones who are Khajiit, Argonians or any other weird species would not be able to get within a kilometer from their target without being spotted.

Yeah, greenseers can do that, but there are not that much of them and it would take them a lot of time to affect a single person, plus Bran is the most powerful Greenseing and warg around there, so not all of them should be able to do the same thing Bran did to Hodor (plus we can argue that the reason it affected Hodor was because he was dying at that moment, so there's another factor to take in consideration). With their small quantity and the time it takes them to affect someone, Wargs and greenseers are non factor here. Warlocks are featless.

Bran? The most powerful? Lol, not even close, Bloodraven is way more powerful. Bran is just an amateur who can't control his powers. Then there's the Night King who also has greenseeing abilities. And Hodor died off-screen, he was only mildly wounded at the time Bran mind-wiped him.

Ebony warrior (who is a redguard) would kill The mountain, The hound, Jaime, and Barristan at the same time without trying. He can shout, his armour makes him almost invincible, he has fast healing so when he is close to death he can heal himself, he has enchanted armour, bow, and sword. This guy can kill Miraak, the greybars, can slain several dragons at the same time and win to anyone you make him fight against (but Karstaag) with relatively ease. Karstaag would kill all GoT elites like in 5 seconds. And since the ebony warrior is just a Redguard and Karstaag just a Ice giant they are allowed by OP.

Mmhm OK yeah feats please.

No, firestorms are not that big but if a torch can kill a wight a firestorm should be able to kill dozens around the conjurer, a fire wall will kill every single one who tries to pass the wall, and "flames" would make quick work of several waves of wights.

Then comes along the White Walker, ignoring the fire completely, and kills the mage.

Not if TES Necromancers do it first, and even if they are reanimated by the white walkers TES mages would kill them easily.

You're really overreaching with the amounts of necromancers there actually are out there.

Not really, Alduin resurrect hundreds of dragons, even if Alduis dies those dragons are still alive, Alduin's death only prevent other dragons to be resurrected, but that doesn't kill those who are already alive. Paranthanux was there before Alduin's arrival. TES has way more, more versatile, and more powerful dragons than GoT.

Pretty sure that according to lore Dovahkiin killed them all.

Anyway, by recent trailers, Drogon is WAY bigger than any TES dragon. He could probably kill dozens of them as if they were nothing. Even Viserion and Rhaegal were making ships break in half by breathing fire at them for like 2 seconds, TES dragons don't have these kinds of feats.

Yep, I thought you knew about the ritual Stone :P

The ritual stone grants anyone who goes to a place called "The ritual stone" and activated the power stone the power to resurrect anything around them and make them fight for him, since chickens to Giants and Mammoths. It's an amazing power to have. When you first go there you encounter 2 or 3 Necromancers there, they use it to make skeletons, death animals and death persons fight the Dragonborn.

If you resurrect someone that person still retains his abilities, intelligence and skill, which make them way more effective than White walkers' Wights.

OK, but that's just 1 stone, in 1 specific location. White Walkers can do it wherever and whenever they want. The ritual stone is a non-factor.

Bottom line:

The White Walkers alone can turn the entirety of Tamriel barring Skyrim to a winter wasteland, collecting legions of hundreds of thousands of wights in the process. There might be some casualties due to mages, but the mages are very few and can be killed by any conventional means. In the meantime, the Faceless Men will assassinate major leaders in Tamrial, creating havoc and disorder. The leftovers will be dealt with with enormous fleets of pirates, Iron Born etc, armies lead by brilliant commanders, giants, dragons that make TES dragons look like geckos and more, while the Graybeards sit in their monastery and cry because they can't take part in the war.

GoT can win. Not saying for a majority but they can win. If magic really was THAT powerful in TES, then mages would have taken over the world and would not have been able to be killed by any conventional means.

@princearagorn1: There are a lot of mages, but not all mages are on the same playing field. The only ones who are only debatably capable of using illusion spells for altering White Walker's minds would be about 5-6. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less.

And paralyze is an alteration spell, which has just as few of high level practitioners as illusion does. It takes an expert level alteration mage to paralyze even lower level beings. It would take the elite of elder scrolls' alteration mages to use paralyze on White Walkers, which again is only going to be about 5-6 mages maybe.

As soon as you get outside of destruction spells which are common among all mages, the amount of capable mages drops significantly in numbers based on both lore and game design.

@tparks:

illusion mages can also influence people's minds to paralyse them as per lore. I distinctly remember one example of paralysing vampires, I'll see if I can find the quote. Five or six seems like a very small number of mages for an entire continent, unless you are going by the number of npc's in a game or something. Not that they won't be sufficient.

@the_red_viper:

1. There is no winter here, clear skies ends it - it can also be used by people other than graybeards. Winter isn't a problem since all races have mages that can just produce fire at will.

2. A white walker can't be a threat to a city, most holds at least have a court wizard..

3. Actually, dragons are confirmed to exist after the fight with alduin no matter which route you took in the quest. Where are you getting the idea that they they all died?

4. Skyrim dragons are smaller, but they are also capable of magic - GoT dragons have no answer to being shocked to death, for example.

The army of undead is not a problem considering skyrim necromancers can raise their own army, or use spells to turn undead - in the game itself we meet a mid tier necromancer who raises the entire tomb.

Not seeing why mages can't just undo the process that made whitewalkers even.

"GoT can win. Not saying for a majority but they can win."

Can you give a reason why? You have said it, but so far haven't given anything that supports this.

"If magic really was THAT powerful in TES, then mages would have taken over the world and would not have been able to be killed by any conventional means.""

Magic is not THAT powerful in skyrim, because about everyone has it. Even races that detest magic, like nords, have passive magic. In a low tier verse like GoT however, the mages would wreak absolute havoc.

@princearagorn1: That's NOT the debate you and I should be having right now, but I will respond to you later nevertheless ;)

@the_red_viper: GoT has no nope of winning. They never did. TES magic users number in the tens of thousands. Aside from the ten Primary races, there are scores of others that inhabit Tamriel as well. Not including those created by curses done by Daedric Princes. Aside from non-political Magic Colleges, like Winterhold, most provinces have their own specific magic organizations that work for their government in some capacity or another.

Cyrodill has several such institutions, and the process for becoming an Imperial Battlemage requiring completing trials in the Battlespire. In short; most magic users working or affiliated with their government have extensive training and experience. Nvm most also provide enchanting services to the public for a fee. None of this includes Alchemists whose mixtures are magical and are provided much more easily and widely distributed.

And there has been several times of powerful mages trying to, you guessed it; Take over the world.

They just failed because everyone else ganged up on them not wishing to put up with their crap. Nvm that a number of mages have lived for hundreds, if not thousands of years in some cases and have been capable of wiping out whole armies. Shalidor by himself waged an age long war against the Dwemer.

1) "OK, so only the Nords can survive the White Walkers' winter. All the other races will die. Cool."

No, they won't, as I said clear skies can take care of that. And even if not, all thalmor can create fire, imperials are good with magic, all forsworn are magic users, trolls will be ok with ice, Dwarven machines will give a crap about it. Clear skies can stop a meteor shower, it won't have any problem stopping winter.

2)"Why? Who said so? They aren't warriors and they don't participate in wars, why should they take part in this one? It's completely different. The White Walkers are a warring species, the Graybeards are not. There are rivalries between species and races in the TES world as well. It has nothing to do with it."

Op said so. World vs world includes every relevant person to fight. And even if greybards don't participate then we still have Pharthanaux, other dragons, and warriors who can shout and draught Lord's who can shout.

3)"Being matched by a highborn knight doesn't mean that they aren't skilled... knights are trained to fight every day from the age of 7 pretty much. The TES giants are not a threat to White Walkers. Also, you are exaggerating the amount of mages that can be found in TES. There are entire cities with not a single mage in them, not to mention mages adept enough to actually use lightning storms and such. White Walkers could single-handedly conquer entire cities in Tamriel."

White walkers could single handedly conquer tamriel? Looooooooooool

Every single Althmer Dominion soldier is a magic user. Play Skyrim again and you will see how even the average foot soldier is capable of summoning Attronachs, conjure bound weapons, heal himself and conjure defensive wards. EVERY SINGLE ALDMERI DOMINION SOLDIER IS A MAGIC USER, and their army is just as big as Empire's army. Empire army also has a lot of magic users (have you ever played Morrowind?). All forsworn in Skyrim are magic users, a lot of Falmer are magic users, Draught​Lord's are magic users, all vampires are magic users, almost everyone in Soulstheim is a mage, Redguards are magic users, even Dwarven machines use soul gems to use magic attacks! Remember the first and second dragon's attacks? In helgen at least 4 or 5 mages fought the dragon and in Whiterun 2 or 3 soldiers were also magic users. Skyrim is the place with less mages in Tamriel because nords consider mages weak, and still it can give some hundreds of mages to TES army.

TES army will have thousands of mages.

4) "Freeze it to the point it shatters into confetti? I don't recall ever seeing anything like that happen in TES."

Ice form does that like in 1 second.

5) "Anyway, look again at the GIFs... the fire moved away when they came, then got back to where it was when they moved away. It's like they have some fire-proof aura around them or something. And please explain to me how "magical fire" is any different from "conventional fire". Does it burn differently? Does it burn hotter? What's the real difference?"

Magic fire is constant, flames work like a flamethrower, fireball is concentrated fire. You have proof that White walkers could survive a flamethrower to the face?

And you haven't answered my other point, even if they can survive fire, tell me a single reason White walkers won't die when they get hit by a thunderbolt, by the spell "Sparks" or a thunder storm.

There are thousands of mages in TES army who can use Sparks and thunderbolts (and storm Attronachs who use as base attack thunderbolt), which means thousands of people, machines and creatures who can oneshot a white walker from the distance (unless you can prove they can survive that, which you can't)

6) "Except the Faceless Men can wear the face of anyone they want. They can infiltrate the castles of the greatest leaders wearing the face of servants or even members of the royal family, and put a knife at the rulers' hearts without anyone knowing what happened. The Dark Brotherhood would have to do this the hard way, and the ones who are Khajiit, Argonians or any other weird species would not be able to get within a kilometer from their target without being spotted."

This is irrelevant to a large scale battle but ok. Dark brotherhood have invisibility potions, that's even better than changing your face. And Dark brotherhood members are better in combat than Faceless men, Dark brotherhood has vampires and mages who can kill from the distance.

Though Assassinations are useless during large scale battles. Even if Faceless men kill the emperor of the empire, this wouldn't change the outcome of this battle.

7) "Show me a necromancer resurrecting thousands of dead bodies in 1 second like the Night King did. Also, if necromancy is so common, please name me 5 necromancers on that caliber (not that 5 could make a difference, there are far more White Walkers anyway)."

All vampires are Necromancers, and just in Skyrim are Some hundred of vampires. Only Necromancers who can come close replicate that white walker massive Resurrection are those 3 from the ritual stone. However TES Necromancers can resurrect burned people, and they can do it mid combat, The night king only did it at the end of the battle. And you know there are spells and scrolls specialized in killing undead, right? A lonely fire dremora (fire Attronach) would kill several dozens of Wights, those burned Wights will be brought back to life by TES Necromancers and vampires.

8) " Bran? The most powerful? Lol, not even close, Bloodraven is way more powerful. Bran is just an amateur who can't control his powers. Then there's the Night King who also has greenseeing abilities. And Hodor died off-screen, he was only mildly wounded at the time Bran mind-wiped him."

How is this relevant to the battle? Great, a guy can kill a single enemy soldier with a lot of time and work. If we give him some centuries he may even kill a couple hundred of soldiers.

9)"Mmhm OK yeah feats please."

Look videos, search for "ebony warrior vs ___" there are plenty of battles of this guy, there's one with fighting 50 people or more and stomping them. Also look videos of Kaarstag, there's one where he stomps 30 frost armored troll. This guys are unmatched and they should be able to kill dozens of not hundreds of enemies by themselves.

10) "Then comes along the White Walker, ignoring the fire completely, and kills the mage."

Nop, then come the mage and one shots the white walker with a thunderbolt. Or do you have anything to suggest a White walker won't be one shotted by a thunderbolt? Let alone Chain Lightning which should one shot all White walkers at the same time, or a thunderstorm. Really, a single mage using chain lighting should one shot all the white walkers, unless you prove otherwise. How will a White walker survive this spells?

"Yes, all best strategies require prep, but Robert Baratheon for example won 3 battles in 1 day in his rebellion, I'm fairly sure he had no prep for each battle separately. Anyway, what special knowledge do you need to kill those creatures? Same can be said on White Walkers except you actually do need prior knowledge on them in order to kill them."

Prior knowledge to kill white walkers? A single thunderbolt will do the work, and since this is a common spell for all magic users in TES, and even for Dwarven spiders, there are thousands of creatures capable of casually one shotting a white walker, if someone uses Thunderstorm or chain lighting they may even one-shot a white walker as collateral damage lol.

11) "Pretty sure that according to lore Dovahkiin killed them all."

Eh, no, according to Lore Dovahkiin slayed Alduin and rebuilt the blades in order to hunt the remaining dragons, we know nothing more. Lore wise we don't even know which side won the civil war. And There are also dragons in Solstheim​.

12) "Drogon is WAY bigger than any TES dragon. He could probably kill dozens of them as if they were nothing. Even Viserion and Rhaegal were making ships break in half by breathing fire at them for like 2 seconds, TES dragons don't have these kinds of feats."

It took a combined attack that took several seconds. Legendary dragons can drain the vitality of any being and kill it in second, all dragons haver fire resistance and fire dragons are almost immune to fire making GoT dragon's attacks useless, in the other hand drain vitality, or cold attacks should take care pretty quickly of GoT dragons.

TES dragons would stomp GoT dragons by pure versatility and number. GoT dragons would not last even a minute against drain life and frost attacks. Or do you have anything to prove they can resist this kind of attacks?

13)"You're really overreaching with the amounts of necromancers there actually are out there."

Nop, I'm not, you are forgetting Aldmeri Dominion, and the empire also have Necromancers, and that all vampires are Necromancers.

14) "OK, but that's just 1 stone, in 1 specific location. White Walkers can do it wherever and whenever they want. The ritual stone is a non-factor."

I think you didn't understand, in that location people can obtain that power, but they​ can use it anywhere they want. It's like, people go there, activate the stone, gain the power, and then they can use it ant will anywhere and anytime.

15) "The White Walkers alone can turn the entirety of Tamriel barring Skyrim to a winter wasteland, collecting legions of hundreds of thousands of wights in the process. There might be some casualties due to mages, but the mages are very few and can be killed by any conventional means. In the meantime, the Faceless Men will assassinate major leaders in Tamrial, creating havoc and disorder. The leftovers will be dealt with with enormous fleets of pirates, Iron Born etc, armies lead by brilliant commanders, giants, dragons that make TES dragons look like geckos and more, while the Graybeards sit in their monastery and cry because they can't take part in the war."

That may work if they attack by surprise. But this is not what is going on here. So that's is useless in this setting.

AND MAGES ARE NOT FEW. I think you are saying that because of Skyrim, but mages are very common in Cirodil, all Althmer Dominion soldiers are magic users (which means a lot of thousands since Aldmeri Dominion army is as big as Empire's armr), all forsworn are magic users, all Draught Lords are magic users, all Bosmer are magic users, all dragon priest are magic users, all vampires are magic users, Redguards have a lot of mages, we also have Attronachs, Daedric minions, spriggans, lurkers, hagravens (who all are magic users), wisps, and shades. The place with less mages in all Tamriel is Skyrim because nords hate mages, and there are still some hundreds (if not thousands) of magic users just in Skyrim.

TES Magic users army would be of thousands, THOUSANDS. Not just a couple hundred as you make it sound.

16) "If magic really was THAT powerful in TES, then mages would have taken over the world and would not have been able to be killed by any conventional means."

First, mages and warriors fight together, I don't see why mages would betray their friends and conquer the world. "Mages" is not a faction in Skyrim, that makes no sense

Second, isn't that exactly what Almery Dominion is doing? The only reason they haven't conquest all Tamriel is because The empire, and the Redguards have a lot of mages too.

@reikai: You should do some ES respect threads me thinks.

@the_red_viper: Ebony warrior and Kaarstag feats.

Ebony warrior soloing all Riften and a dragon.

Ebony warrior killing two legendary dragons

Kaarstag stomping 7 giants

Kaarstag stomping 30 armored frost trolls

@thecrazybean: That's really nice but I really don't have the time or the will to debate against 3 people simultaneously (more so when one of those people STILL OWES ME A RESPONSE IN A CAV) so... yeah.

Not even a fair fight.

Magic is far more comon in TES and at a low estimate we can say there are a few Hundred dedicated battle mages ( and far more "Normal" magic users) and even the most basic of spells is very powerful ( it's a cheap power wise and easy to use flame thrower)

Magic weapons exist in TES and make special weapons from GoT feel inadaquite.

GoT dragons can be brought down by enchanted Bows, Magic, or sige equipment. they can do damage but not a ton before being brought down.

TES healing actively kicks the shit out of GoT and makes the number of casualties the TES side takes far lower.

TES can summon monsters to fight for them.

TLDR:Magic OP

@the_red_viper: who owes you an answer in a CaV? Haha.

No problem viper, it's fine.

@the_red_viper:

I need to make gifs, format posts and actually access the spartacus source material to post in the cav - that takes time and dedication, this I can do from a cell and on just memory.

@thecrazybean: none of that is actually canon ftr, that's just a fan exploiting console...

@princearagorn1. I've been waiting for 1 month, 3 days, and oh...

4 hours to make him fix what he did to me. I mean... to get his response. Lol.

(I know you're busy PA, I just enjoy being an annoying nag).

I don't think it's reasonable to assume White Walkers are totally unstoppable without Dragon Class. We haven't seen them fight against any other forms of magic like fire or electricity, both of which are the most basic destruction spells for a mage to learn. There are near limitless mages from the Aldmeri Dominion and House Telvanni who can do so much more with it. The power alone that those groups could produce is more than the White Walkers have ever tanked, there is no reason to assume they can resist it.

As for their eternal winter, Vampires have frost immunity, the Volkihar Vampire Clan has countless blood magic which again White Walker's have never tanked.

I'll say it again. TES Wins.

@princearagorn1: I know, but nothing in Skyrim but Dovahkiin killing Alduin is Canon for the moment, not even the winner of the civil war, so I must use something... And since Ebony warrior and Karstaag are not important to the game or the lore I really doubt in the next game Bathesda will talk about them.

Developers made Ebony warrior and Karstaag the enemies with the highest level only below Miraak (Miraak is always 1,5 times the level of the character, so if Dovahkiin is lvl 100 Miraak con reach lvl 150), that gives an idea of the real power level devs tried to give to these guys. We also know Ebony warrior has never been defeated and that he thinks the only being capable of killing him is the Dragonborn, so that guy must be damn powerful.

@the_red_viper: whether I say "it's okay, I enjoy your nagging" or "leave me alone", we are at a risk of sounding like an old couple lol

...you're the wife though.

@thecrazybean: None of this is canon. Lore doesn't go by levels nor does it go by console commands and characters who aren't confirmed to exist lore wise.

@the_red_viper: you're the one nagging, I'm being grumpy. So nope.

@thecrazybean:

There are some sequences that can actually happen, or are given to have happened. Ebony warrior solo'ing riften, dragons and thieves guild, as awesome as it would be, isn't one of them. It is purely fan made. Ebony warrior unfortunately has little to no lore or information about him.

Elder scrolls in general is difficult to find feats for, but there are things like Red eagle killing a thousand soldiers in his final battle, Miraak and Vahlok ripping an island away from the main land, or the former affecting the stones to tp the entire island, the female necromancer who raises an entire army of undead (Ansilvuld or something the tomb was called) - and the cinematic fights are supported by official sources, compared to people putting characters against each other with console.

@princearagorn1: hum, I hope they give us Lore for Ebony warrior in the next game, a mention, a book or something.

Btw which cinematics are you talking about? Kill cams?

@thecrazybean: eso cinematics show great feats for a mage. I'll look for it in a few days and give you the link.

@princearagorn1: ok, thank you

And just so there aren't any funny ideas, like trying to pit GoT against other fantasy series, like Guild Wars...don't make me laugh.

ES Giants stomp hard.

@thecrazybean: no problem

Tamriel still stomps. Westeros has no defense against Dwemer, Mages, Vampires, Werewolves, Graybeards, The Aldmeri Dominion, the Hist, and even the Empire. Which yes in 4 E 201 was much weaker than it normally was but is still a force to be reckoned with since it's able to hold it's own against all of the above. In the latest Game of Thrones episode it's well-proven that skill is not mutual for King's Landing soldiers.