Galactus, Odin, Death, Thanos vs Chaos Gods (Warhammer 40K)

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Battle in the Eye of Terror.

while it should be interesting, comic gods take this, chaos gods never showed any remarkable feat, divine avatars can be destroyed by bolters in 40k after all, and they never bust planets or nothing

In fact, i think fully fed galactus or fully rested odin could probably take on all 4, remember than the emperor is as powerful as the 4 chaos gods at the same time, and while he is pretty powerful, even he is not at galactus or odin level

@tzimiscelord:

Nope Chaos Gods were Multiversal being themselves and could create and destroy whole universes to multiverses with a mere thought

Also GEOM is Celestial level probably

I think CG's take this in the warp the only entity to make a formidable challenge to the CG's is Death but if we use Universal one she will lose

@kh0rn3: False (i lost the password of that account)

Slaanesh have been defeated, chained, tortured and forced to puke souls he previously devoured by incarnates that are mountain level at best.

Greater demons are literally pieces of the chaos gods that spawned them, and they can be wounded and destroyed, which actually and temporally diminishes the chaos god.

Chaos gods are 100% incapable of destroying planets, relying on servants or demons to do that.

Chaos gods cant create planets by themselves, the best they can do is shape their plane, and that's pretty much it (and even that is more subconscious than an actual action on their part.

All 4 chaos gods at once arent even planetary feat wise, as both warhammer fantasy, warhammer age of sigmar AND warhammer 40k hard proves several times.

Since when did chaos God's come even close to galaxy level?? Or even solar system??

@tzimiscelord: @destinyman75:

Congratulations all you guys said were wrong and lowballing

@tzimiscelord

Where do you get those statements of the CG's being only planetary level?

Khorne Sword can destroy multiple planets

That's lowballing at best

Where do you get the quote that CG's can't destroy planets? Huh Star wars site?

So if Ahriman can destroy stars and make a warp hole from it

So that means that CG's <<<<<<<<< Ahriman?

Also Fantasy is kind of F up That's doesn't count

Death solos.

I'll side with the Chaos Gods on this one.

@kh0rn3:

CG's greater daemons already established as Solar System level same as Daemon Primarchs level curb your statement

@kh0rn3: Something seems terribly off here when you talk about them creating and destroying universes with a single thought while others say they have no feats above planetary. Everyone on the comics team is far above planetary except for maybe Thanos.

@spambot:

That feats were push by Sirfizzwhiz

A year ago about CG's could make universes with thought

@spambot:

Also the people who say that CG's only planetary level is either lowballing or Galactus fans

@kh0rn3: BELOW planetary level.

They have never EVER destroyed a planet themselves.

Not even a continent.

Their incarnations (literal chunks of them manifested into this direction) can be wounded and destroyed by bullets and rockets.....

Hell, they are killed by swords and bows. A thousand middle ages mortal soldiers with perfect morale can butcher greater daemons.

If you want to put Chaos gods at planetary level, prove it.

Show a direct canon quote or canon picture, or link a canon novel in which the chaos gods actually destroy a planet themselves.

In age of sigmar, the chaos gods tried to kill archaon several times and failed.

The chaos gods are the exact same and have the exact same powers and spawn the same demons (with minor variations) in ALL warhammer games, and their incarnations (the greater deamons) are the exact same and wield the exact same powers too.

As i was saying..... do you think the chaos gods are planetary? or even continental level?

Prove it. Show us a feat. Ill wait.

Eye of terror isnt going to be able to sustain all 4 Chaos Gods...they go back to the warp. If they are followed, maybe Death has a shot, noone else does. Chaos corrupted Galactus would be cool.

@tzimiscelord:

What do you mean by us

Lmao

@decaf_wizard

@wut

@fullmetalemprah

Show him what you guys got

I don't have time to debate this guy i have a work to go

@destinyman75 said:

Since always, considering There is literally solar system sized daemons in the warp.... Considering the Necrons can wipe out solar systems with utter ease, since the chaos gods can snap their fingers and boom goes universes?

Warhammer fantasy and AoS don't matter. FYI Khorne in both has one shotted a planet....

Next, chaos gods are multiverse, they have snapped universes out of existence with utter ease. Not sure where you fail to grasp this, and this is ofc 40k version

The warp is the multi/omniverse(or is connected to them)

"The forms the live-things called Chaos, in their limited little ways of perceiving the omni-verse, swarmed and thrived in this infinite ocean of mind and emotion. The daemon moved with Stele. Waiting, waiting and watching for the moment when the thrashing and chattering of the quarry was at its peak. Only then would it strike, lapping up the absolute perfection of its fear, sinking in rending teeth, tearing it to soul- shreds."

Pg.106 Deus Sanguinius

“A miss indicates that the missile has left Warpspace at the wrong point – and this could be anywhere in any of the million universes.”

pg.37 Adeptus Titanicus

Thoughts can destroy or create thousands of universes in the warp

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible.

Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"

Pg.712 A Thousand Sons

Chaos is older than time

All around him, he could hear the sounds of the future, of warfare and death. The thought that he shared the guilt of the destruction of the Emperor’s dream was the greatest shame and sorrow he had ever known.

An end to it all would be a blessed relief.

‘Oblivion,’ he whispered as he closed his eyes. ‘Do it. End me.’

The barriers in Fulgrim’s mind dropped and he felt the elation of a creature older than time as it poured into the void in his soul. No sooner had its touch claimed his flesh for its own than he knew he had made the worst mistake of his life.

Fulgrim screamed as he fought to keep it out, but it was already too late.

His consciousness was crushed into the dark, unused corners of his mind, forever to be a mute witness to the havoc wrought by his body’s new master.

One moment Fulgrim was a primarch, one of the Emperor’s Children, the next he was a thing of Chaos."

Pg.757 Fulgrim

Click to expand...

"A terrible, ageless scream of frustration filled the chamber, echoing throughout all the realms of existence simultaneously as a creature older than time was thwarted in its ambitions."

Pg.619 Descent of Angels

"All I can tell you is that the warp is beyond the comprehension of you or I, and things exist in its fathomless depths that are older than time as we know it.’"

Pg.359 Battle For the Abyss

Schrodinger's Slaanesh/Chaos

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the material universe. In the Warp, things are different, for the Immaterium is not bound by linear time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. As his rival gods reckon it, Slannesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed at all

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 16

That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the real universe; in the Warp, things are different. The Realm of Chaos has no true time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cuase then effect. In essence, Slaanesh has always exsted in the Warp, and yet had never existed.

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition, pg.7

The sheer mind-boggling impossibiliry of the Warp defies

explanation, and those who attempt to delve further into

understanding its ways inevitably slip into madness. Of the

little that is known is that Warp space does not conform to the

laws of physics as we know them.

-Warhamer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg. 144

It is a hurning ocean of chaos, raw emotion and madness given form, where the laws of physics, time and nature are meaningless concepts and nothing is as it seems.

-Warhammer 40k 4th Edition Rulebook pg. 122

In warp space there is no time, no distances, only a constantly flowing stream of immaterium.

-Battle Fleet Gothic Rulebook, pg. 85

It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is.

-Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal, pg. 16

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 6th Edition pg. 6

Beyond the boundaries of physical space, unrestricted by time or casuality, there is a dimension utterly incomprehensible to mortal minds.

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 4

Timeless and ever-shifting, this psychic visionscape is known as the Realm of Chaos

-Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Realm of Chaos, also known as the Warp, the Immaterium or Warpspace, is a dimension parallel to our own, a universe devoid of matter and life, without laws of time and space.

--Codex: Chaos Daemons 5th Edition pg. 6

The Empy holding reality against Chaos consuming the universe throughout space time.

"His immense psychic powers envelop and protect Mankind across the entire galaxy. His consciousness wanders through Warp space, warring against the Daemons that inhabit it, keeping closed the doors between this world and the next.

If the Emperor fails then the Daemons of Chaos will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind and the stuff of Warp space will submerge the galaxy. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."

-Warhammer 40k 5th Edition rulebook, pg.101

Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of

machinery, the Emperor's mind stretches out through space

and time - a light in a vast gulf of blackness.

-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Rulebook, pg.134

Outwardly, the Emperor is but a desiccated corpse, kept alive partly by the cyclopean, mystical machine of gold wrought by his own hand and partly by a will so powerful that it transcends the bounds of the blackened, shrivelled husk of his body. Physically fettered, chained atop mountainous banks of machinery, the Emperor’s mind stretches out through space and time – a light in a vast gulf of blackness. Should that spark of life ever be extinguished – should the Throne fail in its mysterious purpose – then Mankind would surely be lost.

-Warhammer 40k 7th Edition Rulebook

"Today, as for every day since that battle, the Emperor lives only by the immeasurable force of his supreme will. The stasis fields and psi-fusion reactors of the machine known as the Golden Throne preserve his broken and decayed body; his great mind endures inside a rotting carcass, kept alive by the mysteries of ancient technology. His immense psychic Powers reach out from the Golden Throne, enveloping and protecting Mankind across the enemy-strewn galaxy, a beacon of light in the malevolent darkness.

If the Emperor fails, then none will be able to stop the influx of the dark powers; ravenous and all-consurning Daemons will flood into the galaxy. Every living human will become a gateway for the destruction of Mankind. Reality as it is known will be subsumed by the stuff of Warp space - a realm of nightmares and cruel insanity where all life will end. There will be no physical matter. No space. No time. Only Chaos."

-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg.137

"Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space."

-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 144

Daemons are destruction and anarchy incarnate and they lust after the flesh, blood and very souls of living creatures. They want only to destroy, to drag any living essence they can capture back to their shadowy realm, to obliterate the material universe and engulf it within Warp space.

-Warhammer 40k 7th Edition rulebook

"They are never sated. The abominations from the Warp will not rest untii they have consumed not just Mankind, but the universe as well. All will be ruin; all will be Chaos."

-Warhammer 40k 6th Edition rulebook, pg. 234

@tzimiscelord:

If CG's were below planetary level then

Why does the Emperor doesn't destroy them? Emperor is already Solar system level then why he afraid the CG's then?

Why does C'tan star gods fear them?

You know those gods that devour some stars and warp reality in Solar system level then if they only planet level then why does they fear them

Don't say you only put C'tan star gods at street level lmao

@swa2point0:

Good point

@tzimiscelord:

I already say that WF and AoS doesn't count the question stated the 40k version ffs

I'll back team Marvel though I'm not sure what Odin's really doing here.

@fullmetalemprah: why? No one matters besides death

@killerwasp: Mainly because it looks like Thanos has the IG in that pic and it's apparently Multiversal in Potency. That and I'm assuming Galactus is fully fed here and even though he won't beat them alone he could definitely keep them occupied as iirc he's gone against abstracts before.

@swa2point0: thanks but still a whole lot of context and few feats...With this logic I can call Odin above them still given his pocket universe feats...It's unclear REALLY

what do you mean by odin pocket universe feat?

@kh0rn3: Writers confirmed the nine realms are pocket universes, Odin put them into a hut

@destinyman75: Prove it. Odin is GEOM level, Odin is Galaxy level at best. If you want the lowball to begin we can start lowballing now and i can sit here and say Galactus got soloed by Ghost rider unamped, and stalemated odin who isnt even a universal threat. Thanos without his gauntlet isnt even a mountain buster.

@swa2point0: prrove what?? Haven't spoken to you????

Also haven't low balled so maybe you meant someone else

@destinyman75:

Pretty impressive about Odin feats

But still Odin is pale in comparison to Chaos Gods

Chaos Gods were Shuma-Gorath level threat Odin has never has any feats closer to Shuma-Gorath

Galactus, Odin, Death and Thanos take the win.

I feel like Galactus himself is more powerful than all 4 chaos gods. Not to mention the help he gets from Odin. Thanos without all six stones won't be too much help. But with all six stones he could put a up a pretty good fight

which Galactus you are talking about? fully fed one is only universal not enough to defeat even a single Chaos God while LB one is enough to spank the sh*t out of them

@destinyman75 said:

@kh0rn3: If they are actually Shuma level threats then no not even close..Shuma very few can stop very very few..

@destinyman75:

What do you mean? By Shuma stops?

@kh0rn3: didn't say Shuma stomps said very few can beat Shuma

Well, lets go point by point (sorry for the hiatus, i was on holidays)

Actually, the emperor never destroyed a planet with his own bare hands either, but i wont go further on that because it would shift the focus of the debate.

1: For the same reason superman doesnt punch the concept of hatred into nonexistence, only hateful people/beings, for the same reason cap america can punch nazis, but not nazism as concept/ideal, etc.

Canonically speaking, the chaos gods were "created and sustained by the emotions and collective desires of every sentient being of the material universe".

If you dont get rid from violence, rage and war, you are not getting rid of khorne. that doesnt mean khorne can destroy planets, even if the people/demons who actively follow him can, just like the concept of hatred isnt going to do pretty much anything by itself, even if the people moved by it can.

The emperor didnt destroy them for the same reason he didnt destroy superstition or fear. Its not something that can be destroyed with a sword or a bolter. Only by purging all life in the universe to actually destroy the emotion and concept that both birthed it and sustains it. Only without anything to feed it can a chaos god truly perish.

2: C´tans are terribly vulnerable to the warp, warp users (like the old ones or the eldars) and warp energies, even psychic powers.. They fear it, they cant understand it, and they react VERY adversely to it.

It makes total sense for them to fear the absolute lords of the warp.

If c´tans were kryptonians, the warp would be kriptonite, their fear is justified.

Superman can rightfully fear what lex luthor can do with kriptonite or kryptonite-powered suits and weapons.

That doesnt mean lex luthor is more powerful than superman by any stretch of the imagination.

Lex luthor cant lift 300 lbs

Yet he can definitely beat and even kill superman with kriptonite.

Also, Its hard to classify the ctan because we can only accurately measure the ctan shards, who are definitely above building level, but thats it. they can still be wounded and killed by swords and bolters, and tanks can still withstand several of their hits.

Are complete ctan more powerful?

Sure

How much?

We dont actually know. I could elaborate further but i dont want to deviate a lot from the main topic, it rarely gets anything done.

Then why they don't just raze the imperium of man?

Why bother slowly corrupting people to your side and sending demons to their doom (when Nurgle, for example, loves each and one of his demons and gets angry and distressed when they die) when you can actually fight your own battles?

Nurgle loves their demons, from plaguebearers to nurglettes, and don't like them to die.

Why sending them to battle the codex Astartes and die by the thousands when he could (in your opinion) snap his fingers and win the battle for them?

The chaos gods want to destroy the imperium of man, if they could, they would do it. But they cant.

That's why they corrupt people.

That's why they recruited the chaos space marines to their side.

That's why they send chunks of themselves to fight and die.

Thats why if they want something killed or something destroyed, they have to send people to do it.

If they could win...... why do they lose?

If they could destroy the planets of their enemies by themselves.... why they never do it?

Now the main dish:

""The warp is the multi/omniverse(or is connected to them)""

Indeed, the warp is either completely limitless, or so vastly HUGE that it is, for all effect, limitless.

It doesnt bear any relevance to a battle constricted in the eye of terror, but it is.

""Thoughts can destroy or create thousands of universes in the warp""

Indeed, another warp feat which is, by the way, not limited to the chaos gods. The warp is shaped by thoughts, emotions and intentions. It also ignores a lot of rules. Once again, this is a warp feat, not a chaos gods feats.

""Chaos is older than time""

Chaos is older than time. The chaos gods are not.

This also says nothing about the power of the chaos gods.

Heck, this doesn't even says anything about the chaos gods themselves.

""Schrodinger's Slaanesh/Chaos""

Yet another warp feat, not chaos gods feats.

Yes, time, distance, gravity......... a lot of rules are drastically changed in the warp.

We know this already.

Can we focus back on odin, galactus and company (guys who can actually destroy several solar systems with a single attack) vs the chaos gods, please?

""The Empy holding reality against Chaos consuming the universe throughout space time.""

The emperor is serving as a beacon through the warp which allows the empire ships to travel through it safely (and thus, pretty much teleporting, because even normal humans are way faster than light in the warp)

And, without the psychic guidance of the emperor, the empire will crumble into only a fraction fo what it is.

But humanity survived for several dozens of thousands of years without the emperor.

And with far worse technology.

If weaker, dumber, less technologically advanced, militarily undeveloped and less numerous humans survived for millenia without the emperor protectiond and psychic guidance, i can find absolutely no reason about why shouldnt they repeat that should the emperor fall.

Also, again, The examples you are giving are either for chaos as a global force (the corruption of chaos, the armies of demons, the vast armies of mutants and cultist, etc) not for the chaos gods.

You have made a HUGE post without saying absolutely anything about the chaos gods AT ALL (just that they can shape the warp, which they do in a mostly subconscious way and not an active way, as the fact that they "zones" extend over one another when there are shifts in the power balance even if the actual god dont even try or want for that even to occur.)

Is like making a huge post about plants, botany and forest in a thread about who will win, orion vs titania.

It doesnt apport anything, or prove anything about orion and titania.

It just prove you like botany.

@tzimiscelord: both Chaos and the Warp is the same man warp is always be Chaos as Chaos the same as the warp

They reason of not razing the entire Imperium or Galaxy is because of their Great Game

Galaxy is just a mere sandbox or playground for them they doesn't want to destroy the galaxy but it's their servant that want to destroy the galaxy and possibly the universe

@tzimiscelord:

If someone not yet destroy a planet so that mean he is not Planet level?

Oh c'mon Emperor is the strongest Alpha level Psyker in the whole Galaxy man even much weaker Ahriman has feats that show that he could destroy a sun

Death still solos.

The warp is of course heavily linked to chaos, more than to any other race.

They use warp to travel, to feed the demons forms, to shelter from the imperium, etc

Still, you can say "this guy is very strong because his house is neat"

Chaos and warp aren't the same thing at all, just like metal and mankind aren't the same thing at all.

Completely and utterly false.

They have genuinely tried to conquer things and failed, they have sincerely tried to destroy the imperium several times and failed, and chaos armies have had important victories and important defeats.

Never, ever in the history of 40k have a chaos gods directly entered into the fray against any army.

The leaders of their servants are either literally them (greater demons, literally part of the chaos gods) or people who worship them and obey they every whim. So no, not by a long shot. Simply read a few chaos codex.

If someone sincerely wants a planet destroyed and he is forced to send troops to do it instead of doing it himself, and if those troops fail he is powerless to destroy it, then yes.

Wanting to destroy a planet yet being unable to do it is, by definition, not being on planet level.

The emperor is the strongest psyker ever in warhammer history. Period.

He have unparalleled feats, like being able to send psychic signals all across the galaxy without moving or making thousands of soldiers kneel before him, heal people from the blink of death or impart knowledge at a distance.

Still nothing remotely close of planet level.

His very best feats are, like the chaos gods, leagues below odin level.

Odin can stop time and send the entire human population to a safe distant planet with a mere gesture.

Odin blast can obliterate entire galaxies as unintended collateral damage, then he can rebuild all the lost planets and stars immediately.

He can create entire and new sentient species, like the dwarfs.

He can resurrect people, both individually or in planet-sized quantities....... etc etc etc.

And both galactus and death are stronger than him.

You need something at least close to that to give the chaos gods a fighting chance.

@Fullmetalemprah

@wut can you help.me in this debate?

@tzimiscelord:

Put it simply both GEoM and the CG's is only town level

Nuff said

@kh0rn3: First, I've already said I believe that Team Marvel wins this fight, so why would I argue for the Chaos Gods? Second, you can't just call for backup every single time you're losing a debate. Either prove his/her claims wrong or concede. I'm not saying I agree with them(far from it in fact) but I'm really not interested in this thread enough to argue for several pages.

@fullmetalemprah:

Welp sorry well ?

@fullmetalemprah:

I call for backup because i'm in the middle of study now ?

@kh0rn3: Oh I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything, if it sounded like that it wasn't my intention. If you're busy don't worry about it, since it's not a formal debate or anything there's no time limit or anything so you can come back to it later.

There is no rush pal, I took several days from post to post too.

Don't feel forced to answer ASAP.

Or even to answer if you aren't having fun.

This is nothing more than a hobby.