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#151 Edited by kroczilla (1818 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

1) not really. Saying the fight will go the sane way implies that the speed gap is just that high.

2) don't really need to given that it's more than sufficient. However sanji showed comparable combat speed to doffy who reacted to a meteor from point blank range with ease (a MHS+ speed given the speed of said meteor)

3) first off, given the ease at which sanji dodge a surprise attack from katakuri, it's pretty clear that his COO is far from "basic".

Second, as other users have pointed out, gaara isn't stronger than sanji. He just has greater range which is easily dealt with by sanji's superior speed and mobility.

Third, gaara's MO hasn't changed much since he was a kid. At best you could argue that he has refined his sand manipulation and can control a significantly larger amount. IMHO, pretimeskip gaara was a better fighter due to being more ruthless and arguably making better use of underhanded tricks e. g. His body sand clone against rock Lee.

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#152 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

@limitlesssigil:

1) not really. Saying the fight will go the sane way implies that the speed gap is just that high.

It's not though, all of Sanji's speed feats come from scaling to CP9 and that arc was hilariously inconsistent.

2) don't really need to given that it's more than sufficient. However sanji showed comparable combat speed to doffy who reacted to a meteor from point blank range with ease (a MHS+ speed given the speed of said meteor)

You mean that meteor that fodder marines were able to outrun?

3) first off, given the ease at which sanji dodge a surprise attack from katakuri, it's pretty clear that his COO is far from "basic".

First off, he dodged a Jelly bean, a JELLYBEAN and second, his observation haki is basic, no amount of bias is changing that.

Second, as other users have pointed out, gaara isn't stronger than sanji. He just has greater range which is easily dealt with by sanji's superior speed and mobility.

Again, given the location, Gaara's range is nigh-infinite which completely nullifies any speed advantages you imagine Sanji having. And I'd argue Gaara's flight speed is far superior to Sanji's regardless.

This, gaara's MO hasn't changed much since he was a kid. At best you could argue that he has refined his sand manipulation and can control a significantly larger amount. IMHO, pretimeskip gaara was a better fighter due to being more ruthless and arguably making better use of underhanded tricks e. g. His body sand clone against rock Lee.

This Gaara is one of the strongest Kages of his time, that Gaara is one of the strongest Genin's, see the difference?

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#153 Edited by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

37:19

Sanji doesn't have Precog now even though Observation Haki is specifically stated to give you precog and Oda states he specializes in said Observation Haki:

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#154 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:
Loading Video...

37:19

Sanji doesn't have Precog now even though Observation Haki is specifically stated to give you precog and Oda states he specializes in said Observation Haki:

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Except we know that's not true, never once has Sanji predicted an opponents attack akin to Katakuri's level of CoO.

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#155 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: Except we know that's not true, never once has Sanji predicted an opponents attack akin to Katakuri's level of CoO.

Katakuri has future sight which is a different tier of CoO.....

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#156 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio
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#157 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio
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#158 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: What? I mean by definition precog and future sight are the same thing.

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#159 Posted by Yray (529 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there a thread where skysanji and limitlessSigil don't go after each other..I swear you two were meant for each other

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#160 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: What? I mean by definition precog and future sight are the same thing.

Future sight is just Precog on steroids

Precog allows you to see what your opponent will do in the next moment by sensing their presence while Future sight is essentially the same but in a different tier now you can see whole conversations and knows how entire events will play out before they happen.

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#161 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@yray said:

Is there a thread where skysanji and limitlessSigil don't go after each other..I swear you two were meant for each other

This is more civilized though

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#162 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: So like Sharingan levels of precog? Fair enough then Sanji does have it. I still stand by Gaara winning though.

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#163 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@yray: I don't know what it is about me, but he just can't stay away.

lol

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#164 Edited by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil said:

@skysanji: So like Sharingan levels of precog?

I went over this already so I'll just copy and paste:

Now for Tomoe Precog vs. Observation Haki precog,which the two Cannot be compared too, one is specifically used for Hand to Hand combat while one is not bound by those restrictions.

An example on why Observation Haki is superior in every way is Rayleigh while having his back turned and eyes closed could accurately state what the Elephant on Rusicana would do next basically Sharigan requires specific movement to use its precog meanwhile Observation Haki you don't need any of that

The sharigan's precog is completely different.

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Vs.

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Observation Haki let's you feel the presence of others and predict what they are going to do next

Basically what i'm saying is Sasuke, Itachi,Uchiha have to see their movements to use their Precog meanwhile someone can just be standing still and you can tell what they will do next with observation Haki

You can see how many people are around, Rayleigh used it to sense 500 creatures on the island.

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It's even evident because it can be used while the eyes are closed and can even Dodge an attack while not looking at the creature and even knew where he would attack from.

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Observation Haki is in a completely different tier compared to the sharigan's Precog.

Here is Sanji using Observation Haki, he sensed Katakuri's presence and predicted what he would do next without looking at him and not looking directly at his body movements

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Meanwhile as seen with the Sasuke scans he has to specifically look at there movements

Observation Haki is vastly Superior

Fair enough then Sanji does have it. I still stand by Gaara winning though.

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#165 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I know it's better since it has more abilities, like not relying on vision and being able to sense emotions/people etc.

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#166 Posted by kroczilla (1818 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

1) OK. I'll bite. How was the ennies lobby arc inconsistent?

2) I mean a meteor that reach the earth from space in seconds and was clearly ablaze I. e. MHS at the least.

3) said jellybean forms part of katakuri's arsenal though. It isn't just a jellybean. Basic COO is what zoro uses.

Given that deidara (of all people) could avoid gaara's sand in the same scenario as this battle thread, gaara's "nigh-infinite" range would count for Jack against someone of sanji's calibre. Now, exactly how does gaara have the "superior flight speed".

I didn't say kazekage gaara isn't far more powerful. I was disputing the statement you made about him being "a far more versatile fighter" than when he was a kid. As I pointed out, kid gaara was more ruthless and more willing to use underhanded tricks whereas current gaara seems to prefer taking his opponents head on.

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#167 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

@limitlesssigil:

1) OK. I'll bite. How was the ennies lobby arc inconsistent?

I meant the arc was inconsistent with the rest of the series.

2) I mean a meteor that reach the earth from space in seconds and was clearly ablaze I. e. MHS at the least.

Again, fodder marines who were guarding Caesar were able to outrun it so Doffy had all the time in the world to react to it, not an impressive feat at all.

3) said jellybean forms part of katakuri's arsenal though. It isn't just a jellybean. Basic COO is what zoro uses.

You're assuming that Jellybean was thrown with the speed of say one of Katakuri's punches, this is conjecture.

Given that deidara (of all people) could avoid gaara's sand in the same scenario as this battle thread, gaara's "nigh-infinite" range would count for Jack against someone of sanji's calibre. Now, exactly how does gaara have the "superior flight speed".

Gaara was insanely nerfed in that fight due to having to protect his village and Deidara exploiting this fact, also it's not like he could just create an ocean of sand in that fight since it would injure villagers.

Sanji doesn't have any good speed feats with Sky Walk.

I didn't say kazekage gaara isn't far more powerful. I was disputing the statement you made about him being "a far more versatile fighter" than when he was a kid. As I pointed out, kid gaara was more ruthless and more willing to use underhanded tricks whereas current gaara seems to prefer taking his opponents head on.

I said Gaara has a much vaster array of techniques because Gaara has shown many more techniques post time-skip...

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#168 Posted by uchihaghost (921 posts) - - Show Bio

Lemme add some feats to the list, gaaras sand was able to block amaterasu and also fast enough to stop raikage from using guilotine drop on sasuke, Sasuke even with precog couldn't see raikage's movement when his half blind brother could see lightning. Gaara also reacted to madara's yasaka magatama and susano swords.

Gaara's sand has multiple feats that puts him above sanji's level of speed, add in the fact that the location favours him, he crushes sanji tbh.

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#169 Posted by kroczilla (1818 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

1) bruh, I've taken the bait. Now it's your job to provide actual examples.

2) bruh, fiction is filled with instances of fodders "tracking" attacks which they ordinarily shouldn't be able to e. g. Fodder shinobis tracking and intercepting a juubi bijuu bomb. That itself doesn't discredit the meteor's feats.

3) bruh, the burden is on you to prove otherwise. There is such a thing as Occam's razor.

Lol. Gtfo with that excuse. Gaara was trying to grab deidara and failed on multiple occasions. Him deciding to suddenly make a giant tsunami of sand in that instance against a flying opponent is tactically unsound even if there were no civilians present as;

A) flight means his opponent can just go higher than said tsunami. If his precise attacks lack the speed to tag his opponent, what makes you think a giant tsunami will be fast enough to do the job? Again, his opponent can FLY !

B) controlling large amounts of sand at once clearly drains gaara's chairs at a much faster pace. Using precise sand attacks is by far the better option.

Lastly, post timeskip gaara only showed refined versions of what pretimeskip gaara could use (apart from his pyramid sealing jutsu which isn't tagging sanji).

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#170 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara still wins this.

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#171 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji wins.

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#172 Posted by Madscientist224 (1460 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I'm backing Sanji here

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#173 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: What the hell kind of trash argument is that? Everyone in the verse including Fodder are soundly above the speed of sound even BoS. Am I suppose to suggest water techniques that cleanly cut Ninja tools and various other constructs at high speeds aren't around the same speed as the guy getting tagged by the attacks? Water can cut any substance on earth, an industrial Water jet can carve through 4 inches of steel at around 900mph. Fodder ninja litterally bought down a mountain by shooting mud bullets into it from their mouths.

So because you don't like it I can't apply consistency and otherwise simple comparrison? That's absolutely stupid and showcases an inept form of stubbornness and ignorance I don't feel like dealing with today. Disprove the argument or stop moaning to me about it.

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#174 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, just putting this out there Kid Sasuke who gets stomped by a weighted Lee in taijutsu has a feat similar to that:

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Must suck knowing Sanji is comparable to a child. Gaara still 10/10.

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#175 Edited by ourmanuel (11880 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: except that Kishimoto isn’t thinking about things like that being faster than sound. Not to mention the damage that it did is nowhere near city level, and it would make no sense that kakashi can shoot out attacks of that caliber at BoS.

Your reasoning behind it is technically correct, but author’s intent doesn’t put it at city level.

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#176 Posted by DeathHero61 (18820 posts) - - Show Bio

Based off scaling, Gaara should be able to defensively keep sanji at bay and eventually tag him.

Online
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#177 Edited by Earendill (1229 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara stomps. Gaara Doflamingo level

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#178 Posted by Yray (529 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w said:

Also, just putting this out there Kid Sasuke who gets stomped by a weighted Lee in taijutsu has a feat similar to that:

Must suck knowing Sanji is comparable to a child. Gaara still 10/10.

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Must suck not knowing you're delusional if you think this is comparable what sanji did

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#179 Posted by Oingo_Boingo (150 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Gaara drops a desert on Sanji.

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#180 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara stomps. Gaara Doflamingo level

Nothing is right with what you just posted....

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#181 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Gaara drops a desert on Sanji.

He's back with no feats STILL to suggest Gaara won't get blitzed

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#182 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: except for the fact that Madara wasn't able to out right blitz so why would a slower Sanji be able too 🤔

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#183 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Sanji Casually sending a Banana Gator feet into the air is comparable to Sasuke kicking a Large Bear.....

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Vs.

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Sasuke unless Rinnegan state also can't replicate this:

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#184 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: except for the fact that Madara wasn't able to out right blitz so why would a slower Sanji be able too 🤔

Because Madara was trying to blitz.... he was clearly focused on the Bijuu not fodder ass Gaara who he fodderized a couple of hours ago....

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#185 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Madara stright up tried killing him and failed. But ok. Swap Gaara with Sanji and he dies vs Madara so idk who you're calling fodder.

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#186 Edited by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: Madara stright up tried killing him and failed. But ok. Swap Gaara with Sanji and he dies vs Madara so idk who you're calling fodder.

Gaara Is fodder he won't last a second against anyone from the Monster Trio. .

Lol Madara did technically kill the 5 kages remember? Tsunade healed them if Orochimaru and Taka hadn't showed up Gaara would be dead

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#187 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: the only one he's fodder to is Luffy and Zoro can beat him, and Sanji is a massive weak link

Keep pretending Sanji has feats he doesn't though.

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#188 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: the only one he's fodder to is Luffy and Zoro can beat him, and Sanji is a massive weak link

Keep pretending Sanji has feats he doesn't though.

I've constantly debunked you over and over again and you just come back spewing nonesense

And have no real arguement at this point your just saying Gaara stomps without any evidence

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#189 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: you don't even know what a "debunk" you haven't broken down a single argument or even countered effectively.

Infact last night I had to force myself to stop replying because you're nonsense was giving me a head ache.

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#190 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: you don't even know what a "debunk" you haven't broken down a single argument or even countered effectively.

Really I didn't Debunk you saying Sanji didn't tank 10,000 meters of Underwater pressure?

Didn't Debunk you saying Gaara is a fast as bijuu mode Naruto?

Infact last night I had to force myself to stop replying because you're nonsense was giving me a head ache.

Cool I'm done here as well

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#191 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: dude, the speed of Suiton is specifically outlined in the Databook, it's litterally why it's so deadly. Not to mention not even a category 5 hurricane will uproot a tree into the air, let alone the casual building+ sized ones in the Naruto world that are consistently portrayed.

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#192 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: I never said he could move faster than BM Naruto lmao

Also you debunked yourself with the pressure he had a "speical" bubble.

You don't even know what my argument was yet you debunked it 😂😂😂 and you debunked yourself.

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#193 Edited by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: I never said he could move faster than BM Naruto lmao

Also you debunked yourself with the pressure he had a "speical" bubble.

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He pops out of said bubble and fights under 10,000 meters of underwater pressure

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You don't even know what my argument was yet you debunked it 😂😂😂 and you debunked yourself.

Yeah you are most definitely trolling now

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#194 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: notice how he didn't slow down at all or note any pressure? Because it doesn't exist.

Only person here trolling is you, the fact that Gaara needed a nerf to make this fair says enough tbh.

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#195 Edited by RikuYamaha (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax:notice how i suffocated and didn't move at all or note i didn't intake any air? that must mean air doesn't exist.

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#196 Edited by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: notice how he didn't slow down at all or note any pressure? Because it doesn't exist.

Only person here trolling is you, the fact that Gaara needed a nerf to make this fair says enough tbh.

Sigh.. this is getting tedious and you are going in circles this has already beem established this since Arlong Park:

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Also in the manga as well:

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Also nerf? He is fighting in his home area which is surrounded with sand....

Yeah youve got to be trolling

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#197 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio
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#198 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: says that the pressure will kill him -> pressure does nothing.

Obviously Oda forgot or maybe there's just no pressure.

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#199 Edited by RikuYamaha (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: i basically said what you said but replaced water with air.

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#200 Posted by SkySanji (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: says that the pressure will kill him -> pressure does nothing.

Again please read the series the fishman saw humans as inferior lifeforms and underestimated them constantly which brought about their downfall not knowing The Monster Trio weren't ordinary

Obviously Oda forgot or maybe there's just no pressure.

Trolling at its finest...

When your losing a debate and have to resort to such tactics 😂😂😂