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#101 Posted by Raziel2014 (1328 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha said:

this is basically a rematch of rock lee vs gaara

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Gaara won that match though...

yes but sanji does not have the disadvantages of lee, Lee would of won no diff if he could use the gates forever which is sanji in this scenario

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#102 Posted by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth said:
@rikuyamaha said:

this is basically a rematch of rock lee vs gaara

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Gaara won that match though...

yes but sanji does not have the disadvantages of lee, Lee would of won no diff if he could use the gates forever which is sanji in this scenario

Lee basically did "no diff" Gaara, it's just when he became tired (aka what Sanji would inevitably do), Gaara came out and practically one-shotted him.

Gaara's sand is at least city level which is above what Sanji could ever dream. People are underestimating Gaara here lol.

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#103 Posted by RikuYamaha (1514 posts) - - Show Bio
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#104 Posted by shirso (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji stomps him. He is basically Lee on crack without the stamina issues.

Also lmao at Gaara crushing Sanji s legs

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#105 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@raziel2014: @rikuyamaha: Sanji has no feats that are City level.

And Sanji isn't fast enough or strong enough to do what Lee did.

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#106 Posted by RikuYamaha (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax:

description : Sanji is the chef and 3rd strongest(but i think he is tied for second most powerful) member of the straw hat pirates he is a master of the black leg martial arts style that only uses kicks and leg techniques he was taught this by red shoes zeff.

strength :

his strength is close to the strength level luffy was at during the fishman island arc which is impressive since in the fishman island arc luffy destroyed a boat as half as big as an island by punching it.

also did this

Sanji casually kicks parts of a building towards Oz. His kicks can even flip a gigantic monster and make him fall onto a building. He also deflected a full power attack from Oars.

sanji can casually break a pacifista's neck which is impressive since the metal that pacifista's are made of is much more durable then steel and a pacifista is durable enough to survive small town busting attacks.

durability :

he has arnament haki IIRC which gives him an invisible armor around himself that also enhances his attacks and let him hit people who are intangible.

he has tanked city busting attacks

speed :

also early in the series sanji has shown the ability to dodge machine gun fire

sanji is easily faster than bullets it's shown here that he is at around bullet speed and he has gotten way faster from there his speed is at about mach 5 if you lowball and mach 17 if you highball.

he has been too fast for kalifa to react/see him and his attacks and kalifa is fast enough to react to lightning.

using his precognition and speed sanji has dodged rapid fire lasers.

abilities :

he has kind of precog and can sense where people are

he can kind of fly using the sky walk technique this also works in water.

he also has the ability to heat up his legs using the diable jambe technique he later learns to use this activate diable jambe instantly without the spinning

he can also light himself on fire without getting burnt and this makes his attacks can burn things as big as this mountain sized thing

he is a master of the black leg martial art style and integrates his diable jambe attacks into the black leg style (shown here and here)

specialties :

he is physically very strong and fast

he is clever in a fight

he has fire attacks which can damage large opponents.

weaknesses :

he is unwilling to hurt a woman

he has melee range except for the fire stuff

he is unwilling to use his hands in fights.

read this

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#107 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: I read that when it was first posted again not a single city level attack.

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#108 Edited by Raziel2014 (1328 posts) - - Show Bio

where do people get city level gaara sand from, thats way too high, in Volume is probably Town level+ which is the size of his Village, but volume of sand does not mean durability of sand since the enemy is not targeting the entire sand entity but only a spot -> Chidori or similar, a 100 meter building is still just wall level durability even if it was 1,000 meter building it would still be just wall level durability since its made of Steel or similar, which is why deidara small bombs could still break his sand apart.

faradasloth: Sanji wont get tired because he is not under any stress like Lee was, his bones and muscles are not ripping apart every sec, he is fighting like any person does, a professional boxer can fight for over an hour, a marathon runner can run for hours straight, you think sanji would become tired.

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#109 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@rikuyamaha: I read that when it was first posted again not a single city level attack.

Okay this is getting tedious you keep holding on to this Gaara tanking a Nuke nonesense

Sanji doesn't focus on energy based attacks So I fail to see why this is important he just repeats the Gated Lee vs. Gaara situation this time with no time limit and just pummeled him

Gaara can't react not even at all and Observation Haki makes this Lockworthy

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#110 Posted by deactivated-5c9011bc9c6e9 (616 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji blitz

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#111 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: implying that bombs don't have concussive force. Mmmmk.

Gaara's sand is faster than Sanji but ok, sure let's say other wise. I've asked time and time again for feats and all you've posted was lightning timing which isn't enough.

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#112 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: implying that bombs don't have concussive force. Mmmmk.

It's still an energy based attack it focuses on energy not Blunt force Gaara has no blunt force durability feats on Sanji's level

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#113 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@raziel2014: the small bombs worked because they're microscoptic and they slipped through not because they blasted through.

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#114 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Sanji has no blunt force feats on the level of a city sized bomb. Which uses Concussive force which is the same as a punch or a kick.

The energy based argument doesn't work on bombs.

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#115 Edited by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio
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#116 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: Sanji has no blunt force feats on the level of a city sized bomb. Which uses Concussive force which is the same as a punch or a kick.

The energy based argument doesn't work on bombs

Bombs are energy based saying it is equal to a punch or kick is warped

Stop with this nonsensicalargument, a common Google search will debunk your claim

Try again, stop reaching

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#117 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: the logic in that is so austondingly low.

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#118 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: the logic in that is so austondingly low.

Because logic can be considered low?

Anyway Gaara can't react, and tanking a Nuke does not equate to tanking one of Sanji's strikes

Sanji ragdolls

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#119 Edited by shirso (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji casually one shotting the Pacifista alone is at least a city lvl+ feat, let alone his stronger attacks.

Pacifistas are massively more durable than Franky, a guy who tanked a mountain buster.

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Gaara gets turned to paste.

Even if you stick to the energy=striking durability nonsense, Gaara gets stomped.

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#120 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: not in Dc but as I said before in attack potency ^

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#121 Edited by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

Franky never tanked a mountain buster, even Hiroshima clouds were over twice the height of Mount Everest. I mean, even VS Battles doesn't put Franky's durability on Mountain level, and they wank tf out of everything.

The scaling is so broke and dumb, that's like saying Ichigo since SS Arc casually had Island-Small Country durability feats. You're assuming that Sanji is city+ level because he one-shotted a Pacifista who is >Franky (who did a feat he never replicated since...)

Swear to god, the One Piece highballing needs to stop.

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#122 Posted by Skrskr (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: franky was literally inside a mountain that blew up, and only took superficial damage.

Explain how that isn’t tanking a mountain buster?

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#123 Edited by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr: That was a lab mostly.

Nothing says or shows that was mountain busting.

Besides, no one, especially Franky's tier, has been able to replicate that feat. Even if you want to highball it to a mountain busting attack (which it's not) it's clearly an outlier and shouldn't be used for scaling.

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#124 Posted by shirso (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: Franky's durability far exceeds his tier though. He took hits from Luffy and even before he became a cyborg he survived a sea train crashing into him.

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#125 Posted by Skrskr (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: there was a small mountain where the explosion happened that isn’t there anymore, and the tall mountain next to it broke in half from the explosion.

Just look up the before picture for comparison.

I’m fine with not scaling everyone from it but franky 100% survived a mountain buster.

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#126 Posted by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't that explosion blow off all his skin and knock him out? I wouldn't really call that tanking. He probably wouldve died if he wasn't a cyborg so that's weird to scale.

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#127 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@manimalman: The point is the Pacifista are more durable than Franky and it got oneshotted by Sanji

Franky being a cyborg isn't important here, he tanked it...

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#128 Posted by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: I don't see how any of that changes my point.

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#129 Posted by shirso (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: I don't see how any of that changes my point.

Because your argument about tiers don't make any sense. If by tiers you mean who would win in a 1v1 then yes Franky is in the "tier" of people like Brook or Robin. But his durability far exceeds other people in his overall tier. Durability has always been one of Franky's most significant aspects, so yeah him tanking a mountain buster is not an outlier.

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#130 Posted by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr said:

@faradaysloth: there was a small mountain where the explosion happened that isn’t there anymore, and the tall mountain next to it broke in half from the explosion.

Nothing constitutes them being as tall as mountains aside from baseless statements. We don't know if they're even made from the substances as regular mountains. The Tall "mountain" was likely broke in half because everything else was collapsing.

Just look up the before picture for comparison.

Yeah. Still see nothing to change my point.

I’m fine with not scaling everyone from it but franky 100% survived a mountain buster.

Outlier then.

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#131 Posted by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: There is nothing to suggest his durability far exceeds people of his tier to the point of tanking a mountain busting attack. Nothing to suggest from his other feats to show he can indeed tank a mountain busting attack. Nothing to suggest those "mountains" were even equal to actual mountains to begin with.

This "feat" shouldn't be used for scaling, it's an outlier or just inconsistent. Until Franky or people like him replicate this feat again I'll accept it.

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#132 Posted by shirso (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth:

There is nothing to suggest his durability far exceeds people of his tier to the point of tanking a mountain busting attack.

Except it does. He took hits from Luffy no issue at Water 7, then later from Oars, and attacks from CP9 members.

He can also casually no sell the recoil from his air canon which does this level of damage.

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People in his tier would be Brook or Robin who don't have remotely any durability feats on this tier.

Nothing to suggest from his other feats to show he can indeed tank a mountain busting attack.

How would you know his limits though? Pre time skip it took heavy attacks from Oars or air cannons from Kuma to even damage him.

Nothing to suggest those "mountains" were even equal to actual mountains to begin with.

??? When they are literally drawn as mountains? What were they then, someone went there and built some mountains with cardboard?

This "feat" shouldn't be used for scaling, it's an outlier or just inconsistent. Until Franky or people like him replicate this feat again I'll accept it.

The Pacifistas would directly scale from him because they are explicitly stated to be more durable than Franky and you can't call outlier or inconsistent when Franky's durability due to being a cyborg is explicitly noted and it takes people like Kuma or Oars to even start damaging him.

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#133 Posted by FaradaySloth (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@faradaysloth:

Except it does. He took hits from Luffy no issue at Water 7, then later from Oars, and attacks from CP9 members.

Again, none of this changes my point at all. None of these characters come even close to attacks like mountain busting.

He can also casually no sell the recoil from his air canon which does this level of damage.

uh...what about this feat makes it so impressive? Looks like a City Block level, hardly impressive considering his later "feat"

People in his tier would be Brook or Robin who don't have remotely any durability feats on this tier.

This doesn't change the point of how his durability can exceed as far as mountain busting in his tier. Still see no one replicating it. Still an outlier.

??? When they are literally drawn as mountains? What were they then, someone went there and built some mountains with cardboard?

For all we know they look to be made out of ice mostly. Nothing to suggest it's an actual real mountain.

The Pacifistas would directly scale from him because they are explicitly stated to be more durable than Franky and you can't call outlier or inconsistent when Franky's durability due to being a cyborg is explicitly noted and it takes people like Kuma or Oars to even start damaging him.

I don't see how this prevents me of saying this was an obvious outlier. I guess SS Arc Ichigo has tanked Small Country level attacks then. Guess BoS Sasuke can track characters moving at light speed then.

Until I see people like Franky replicating these feats I'll consider him able to tank a mountain bust.

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#134 Posted by Nefarious (35649 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji blitzes Gaara.

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#135 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:

Just read through this entire thing and all you've used was Kakashi's cutting a lightning bolt to scale which is an Outlier seeing how during Sasuke and Itachi's fight

Both Sasuke and Zetsu were making a big deal out of lightning

Pretty irrelevant seeing as Kakashi is physically faster than both of them, not to mention the severe handicap Itatchi had and the fact it was an AoE attack he couldn't dodge. Not to mention if we use the full statement that lightning was much faster, why partially use the source?

Sasuke thinking it was going to finish off Itachi and Zetsu saying it's unavoidable both of these two unaware that Itachi was not in perfect condition, So they think a healthy Itachi cannot dodge Lightning

Wow. Zetsu directly stated Itatchi's reflexes were diminishing, this was before he spammed Amaterasu to make it even worst.

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Not only that put Itachi was aim dodging said Lightning, he knew were it was coming from, Sasuke specifically told him that he would guide it with his hands in order for it to go to Itachi, there is no arguement to be made here, it's an outlier

Something that's been confirmed in canon since the very beginning of the series isn't an outlier. Also this is completely irrelevant as we know Itatchi didn't act until after the attack was fired:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Unless of course you think Kid Kakashi>Itachi in speed then if thats the case you are Gone

Yea, kid Kakashi who was the captain of all anbu is faster than a sick and dying Itatchi. Hell Kakashi with a Chidori or Raikiri boost is faster than Itatchi, period.

Now for your Tomoe Precog vs. Observation Haki precog,which the two Cannot be compared to one is specifically ise for Hand to Hand combat while one is not bound by those restrictions.

Seeing something and doing something about it is completely different, unlike the Sharingan which sees every micromovement to move around any possible counter. Hence why I said Sharingan is clearly superior, that would apply to this situation as well.

And example on why Observation Haki is superior in every way is Rayleigh while having his back turned and eyes closed could accurately state what the Elephant on Rusicana would do next basically Sharigan requires specific movement to use its precog meanwhile Observation Haki you don't need any of that

Hence Sharingan and practically any form of body reading is much better in combat

Observation Haki let's you feel the presence of others and predict what they are going to do next

So if The presence is masked then what?

Observation Haki is in a completely different tier compared to the sharigan's Precog.

Because fodder reacted to more fodder? What about Shinobi who simply mask their presence? The Sharingan has much better feats in every regards to a form of precog, it only sits under a broader range of sensory abilities.

Here is Sanji using Observation Haki, he sensed Katakuri's presence and predicted what he would do next without looking at him:

How's this work with a much more skilled and otherwise unpredictable opponent?

Meanwhile as seen with the Sasuke scans he has to specifically look at there movements

Sanji would still have to move to counter, therefore the Sharingan is superior in practically any aptitude if CQC combat.

For your last point about Gaara's defense being stronger than Armanent Haki

None of those scans you've shown have anything on a fatigued LUFFY who was destroying multi city block ALL THE WAY BACK DURING THE ALABASTA ARC WITHOUT NO GEARS OR ARMANENT HAKI

Nice. Too bad busting stone/concrete city blocks wouldn't shatter steel. Pretty cool Aoe though.

Your logic is "Steel is pretty tough"

It quantifiably destroys any Haki feat in the verse including Zoro slashing through the stone Pica. Which Sanji isn't even close to replicating.

Your whole post just spews of Nonesense with you just arguing with Outliers for instance Lee reacting to Juubidara Gouda make, when 8 gates Guy couldn't even and it took Minato to Teleportation them away not only that but Gaara was able to bring his sand on towards Madara and let Kakashi Kamui, This is all before Guy could throw a punch..... that doesn't sound weird to you? Not even at all?

1. You are disgustingly misinformed, 6th gate Guy saved Kakashi from TSB at about as pointblank range as you can get:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

2. It's much more plausible to assume Guy slowed down, as we know without a doubt TSB, Madara, and Guy are quite a bit faster than everyone else there except Lee who should be on the same level as 6th gate Guy.

3. Lees feat being an outlier when he was in 6th gate (the same gate Guy just reacted to TSB in) is unsupported logic.

Another example Guy on Base keeping up with Bijuu Naruto and Obito but later using 7the gates against Madara....

Base Guy is a tad under Kakashi, 6th gate Guy is faster than the Raikage who Madara had no trouble reacting to, even whilst amped by onoki. 7th gate has been shown to be on a completely different level.

You used scaling that Heavily relies on outliers

So that's your only refute? Scream outlier despite no factual reasoning behind It? I mean at the very least consult with the manga before you attempt to argue something is inconsistent.

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#136 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: Honestly I don't have time to argue with someone who thinks water dragon jutsu is city level,Rinnegan Sasuke can Solo Bleach, etc it's late here I'm going to bed

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#137 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: I mean I could prove both of those things just like I've proven Gaara Destroys Sanji and that he's debatably more comparable to a kid Lee. Also Giant vortex is City level, not water dragon.

But I'll gladly accept your concession on the account you're practically agreeing you're incapable of contesting anything I say. Let me know if I kept you up at night.

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#138 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w said:

@skysanji: I mean I could prove both of those things just like I've proven Gaara Destroys Sanji and that he's debatably more comparable to a kid Lee.

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So you can prove to me Water dragon jutsu is city level specifically the one Kakashi used on Zabuza?

And that Rinnegan Sasuke can Solo Bleach?

You haven't proven anything you used nothing but headcannon and Outliers to argue Kid Lee let alone Shippuden Lee beating Sanji

But I'll gladly accept your concession on the account you're practically agreeing you're incapable of contesting anything I say. Let me know if I kept you up at night.

Conceding to someone who is a complete and utter fanboy of Naruto? You are a joke and get clowned on every thread you think Tomoes precog is on the level of Observation Haki, You think Tsunade stands a chance against Aizen for crying out loud, if me not responding to someone as delusional as you because I know what I say will just go through one ear out of the other then by all means.....

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#139 Edited by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:
@hope_w said:

So you can prove to me Water dragon jutsu is city level specifically the one Kakashi used on Zabuza?

No, but I can prove Giant Vortex is/was. The worst tsunami in recorded history came at 500MPH, a hypersonic wave of water would utterly obliterate a city.

And that Rinnegan Sasuke can Solo Bleach?

Adult Sasuke, yep. Not even the almighty can stop him.

You haven't proven anything you used nothing but headcannon and Outliers to argue Kid Lee let alone Shippuden Lee beating Sanji

Every feat you've called an outlier has been proven consistent with context. Sanji would get utterly crapped on by an Anime/Manga Lee tbh, Lee has a much better set of scaling as well so really this can't even be argued by you.

Conceding to someone who is a complete and utter fanboy of Naruto? You are a joke and get clowned on every thread you think Tomoes precog is on the level of Observation Haki, You think Tsunade stands a chance against Aizen for crying out loud, if me not responding to someone as delusional as you because I know what I say will just go through one ear out of the other then by all means.....

  1. Said Joke of a fanboy would procede to clown you in a debate, as evident by you dodging every argument thrown.
  2. Body reading >>> Seeing something coming
  3. I never personally said Tsunade beats Aizen but if you had knowledge on the thread that originated from, you'd have better insight on the topic (this however is OT and irrelevant here)

Once again, I'll accept your concession on the account that whatever I say is completely uncontestable by your very own admission. You're properly dismissed.

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#140 Posted by kroczilla (1819 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji takes this. He's too fast for gaara. And that's not counting his COO haki, skywalk, his durability advantage etc.

This would be like the Lee vs gaara fight except this time, Lee has no limits, has pseudoflight and can predict gaara's moves before hand.

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#141 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

Sanji takes this. He's too fast for gaara. And that's not counting his COO haki, skywalk, his durability advantage etc.

This would be like the Lee vs gaara fight except this time, Lee has no limits, has pseudoflight and can predict gaara's moves before hand.

This is a much stronger version of Gaara than the version that fought Lee, he also has a tremendous location advantage and Sanji doesn't have precog.

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#142 Posted by kroczilla (1819 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

1) I'm comparing it to the Lee vs gaara fight in terms of how the battle would go.

2) Location advantage effectively rendered null by the speed gap and sanji's skywalk

3) 😂 sanji doesn't have precog? Remind me what COO haki is again (which happens to be his specialty).

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#143 Edited by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

@limitlesssigil:

1) I'm comparing it to the Lee vs gaara fight in terms of how the battle would go.

Bad comparison

2) Location advantage effectively rendered null by the speed gap and sanji's skywalk

Speed gap being literally nothing considering Gaara had no issues fighting a Madara who could react to a lightened Raikage.

3) 😂 sanji doesn't have precog? Remind me what COO haki is again (which happens to be his specialty).

No he doesn't have precog, he has basic CoO which allows you to sense attacks without seeing them etc. That's not precog.

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#144 Posted by kroczilla (1819 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: 1) not really

2) and sanji blitzed Kalifa while holding back, pretimeskip. Same Kalifa who was a lightning timer.

3) Assuming I agree with what you just said, that would still be bad for gaara as he wouldn't be able to catch sanji with same tricks that worked on rock Lee.

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#145 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@kroczilla said:

@limitlesssigil: 1) not really

Yes really.

2) and sanji blitzed Kalifa while holding back, pretimeskip. Same Kalifa who was a lightning timer.

Show me some of Sanji's speed feats without scaling from CP9

3) Assuming I agree with what you just said, that would still be bad for gaara as he wouldn't be able to catch sanji with same tricks that worked on rock Lee.

"Assuming I agree with what you just said" What? Lol... That's how CoO works, Sanji's is only basic, why do we have to assume that you believe that? That's what CoO is. Again, this Gaara is much stronger and has a much vaster array of techniques compared to when he fought Rock Lee, I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

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#146 Posted by ourmanuel (11921 posts) - - Show Bio
@hope_w said:
@skysanji said:
@hope_w said:

No, but I can prove Giant Vortex is/was. The worst tsunami in recorded history came at 500MPH, a hypersonic wave of water would utterly obliterate a city.

Can you not?

This is the type of shit that makes us in the CV naruto fanbase look like brainlets to everyone else. You’re never supposed to apply that much irl physics to something like naruto.

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#147 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are people still taking Hope seriously, this is the guy that said Naruto passively emits planet level shockwaves and pre-juubi Madara solo's Bleach. It's clear he has no idea what he's talking about.

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#148 Edited by Yray (529 posts) - - Show Bio
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I don't see even war arc gaara tanking a kick of this lvl to the head without being badly injured or knocked out,and this version of sanji is like 100x weaker than his current self and not to mention the unholy speed difference I would be generous and say war arc gaara is as fast as pre time skip gear 2 luffy who can speedblitz people who are faster than lighting timers...but post time skip sanji is way way faster

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#149 Edited by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

@yray: jirobo did something similar to that back in part 1

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#150 Posted by Yray (529 posts) - - Show Bio

@yray: jirobo did something similar to that back in part 1

Yeah but I don't think gaara can no sell hits on this level to his body ,he's not built as the tanky type that's why he has a high defense with his sand he hardly takes direct hits