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#51 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@faradaysloth: Sanji doesn't have a time limit and outstats Lee though so the results would be different

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#52 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Sanji isn't fighting Kid Gaara, also show me some city level kicks because so far Sanji is kicking but the Sand isn't cracking.

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#53 Posted by FaradaySloth (10056 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Everyone has a time limit unless if you have infinite endurance.

And Shippuden Gaara has better stats than Part 1 Gaara so point is moot.

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#54 Posted by Jko1 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#55 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: Sanji isn't fighting Kid Gaara

Okay cool stop trying to change the subject though, point is Sanji destroys Gaara that was only a comparison being made on how the battle goes so Lee pummeling Gaara was the scenario, okay? Cool now with that out of the way.

also show me some city level kicks because so far Sanji is kicking but the Sand isn't cracking.

Wadatsumi size:

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Kraken's size:

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The two side by side:

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Sanji Kicking Wadatsumi and sending him flying:

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So no lowballing or reaching occurs, Here is Wadatsumi compared to an island sizes ship:

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The ships size:

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Sanji is easily city to small mountain level

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#56 Posted by Sy8000 (35467 posts) - - Show Bio

You can see Watadsumi compared to buildings there, he's not larger than them. Sanji is nowhere near city level. Gaara crushes him.

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#57 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: you can litteraly see that ugly man baby thing compared to buildings and Luffy's ship it's not City level or Mountian level is large building to city block level.

Based on your post Sanji is a lightning timing multi bulding buster, which is not enough here.

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#58 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000: That's what I was thinking but watch me be "reaching" again

IIRC Luffy's strongest attack is city level and he's way above Sanji.

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#59 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@sy8000: That's what I was thinking but watch me be "reaching" again

IIRC Luffy's strongest attack is city level and he's way above Sanji.

No Caption Provided

You mean the attack that Doflamingo took the full force of before hitting the City?

Some serious lowballing here...

Leo Bazooka is easily mountain level

Liffy only sent Doflamingo flying through structures to get that feat he didn't flat out hit it observe:

Loading Video...

Also seen in the manga:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Just look at the size of the crater:

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Same thing goes for King Kong gun

Luffy was fatigued, went through Doffy's heavenly bullets and Doffy took the full force of the attack, that's the result of King Kong gun, Luffy didn't flat out punch the city

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#60 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Let's not change the subject, Gaara was whooping on Sanji remember?

Also I said IIRC never stated i was 100% but still it was the inner most part of the city not the whole thing so saying he's City level isn't a bad guess.

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#61 Posted by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanji's only hope is his speed, if gaara blocks before sanji attacks then its over.

Gaara has far better feats for DC and defence. Putting him in the desert just makes it worse.

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#62 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji:

Again show me where Oda puts emphasis on pressure, I'll wait.

Sigh.. this is getting tedious Oda has already established this since Arlong Park:

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Also in the manga as well:

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You don't know what reaching means so I'll just omit that part.

You said Sanji can't get his being under 10,000 meters of underwater pressure feat because Oda wasn't really thinking about Sciencephalitis when drawing it out but you aren't reaching? Anyway you got debunked again and there is no argusing against this evidence I've shown you

Gaara goes into his shell, uses his third eye to see, and the crushes Sanji with sand. How does Sanji get through the sand? he needs a feat suggesting he can, all you've done is posted lightning timing which Gaara can do casually.

With no feats to suggest this....

this is really getting tedious I've debunked all of your claims thus far and you keep coming back weaker than before and are now trying to reach to lowball feats, well....trying to.

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#63 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: are we going to pretend that the long nose brat with zero durability feats can also tank that level pressure? I thought I was reaching?

Again none of this matters because even if I concede this one point which I won't because it makes no sense, you're still behind on two other points which are speed and DC.

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#64 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: Let's not change the subject, Gaara was whooping on Sanji remember?

Lol all of your claims have been debunked but you think your winning the argument?

Okay, I guess?

Also I said IIRC never stated i was 100% but still it was the inner most part of the city not the whole thing so saying he's City level isn't a bad guess.

Fair enough.

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#65 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: You haven't debunked anything lol, I asked for City level which is Gaara's minimum level and you post a building level feat which I bumped up to block level for you.

And you posted lightning timing which I accepted because it's not enough.

This isn't "debunking" this is you posting stuff that isn't strong enough and trying to wank it for something it's not.

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#66 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: are we going to pretend that the long nose brat with zero durability feats can also tank that level pressure? I thought I was reaching?

Ussop was inside the ship which has a bubble around it, read the Manga or watch the Anime, please:

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Again none of this matters because even if I concede this one point which I won't because it makes no sense, you're still behind on two other points which are speed and DC.

Gaara can't crush Sanji so how is he winning?

Sanji can survive under 10,000 meters of Under water pressure

Sanji blitzes so how is Gaara winning?

He was casually lightning timing Pts while The Raikage is faster than Gaara and Sanji has Observation Haki so he'll see what Gaara can do beforehand

Show me Gaara tanking physicals attacks on par with Sanji's

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#67 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1508 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: wadatumi is much larger than a building though

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#68 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: lightning is nothing for Gaara he effortlessly reacted to the Raikage.

A bubble won't stop pressure and if it does Sanji had one too.

Sanji isn't blitzing you've failed to prove that and I've debunked that fact that lightning timing is fast enough

Sanji can't win he's not getting through the sand.

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#69 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

Just caught on to the Wadatsumi size lowball

Here are the Buildings compared to Wadatsumi's upperbody not even his full body:

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But an important thing to notensure is that the Buildings are in perspective here are the closest buildings to Wadatsumi:

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And that is just his upperbody:

Here is Sanji completely engulfing him:

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#70 Posted by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

Wadatsumi is under 300 meters, that's a far cry from casual gaara.

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#71 Edited by Jko1 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: You haven't debunked anything lol, I asked for CitylevelwhichisGaara'sminimumlevel and you post a building level feat which I bumped up to block level for you.

And you posted lightning timing which I accepted because it's not enough.

This isn't "debunking" this is you posting stuff that isn't strong enough and trying to wank it for something it's not.

Huh? Since when?

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#72 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Those are houses which aren't building sized, in the scan that he's next to the ship you see a building sized bulding up to his chest .

You tried wanking that to city level.

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#73 Edited by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1: at the very start of part two he stopped a city level bomb quite easily.

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#74 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: @skysanji: Skysanji found a scan that compared him to tiny buildings to try and wank his size.

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You can see building larger than him, in no way is this City level.

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#75 Posted by Jko1 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: In his his fight with Deidara? Err idk if Gaara's feats from then would apply here.

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#76 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1: They should he's stronger now than he was then.

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#77 Posted by Jko1 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: Not really. This is only Shippuden Gaara but he does not have Shukakau. When Gaara was a jinchuriki, his base was more powerful than after he lost Shukaku.

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#78 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: lightning is nothing for Gaara he effortlessly reacted to the Raikage.

Scans?

Counter to Observation Haki?

A bubble won't stop pressure and if it does Sanji had one too.

Only this isn't an ordinary bubble:

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And again it's stated they will get crushed without it:

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Sanji isn't blitzing you've failed to prove that and I've debunked that fact that lightning timing is fast enough

You haven't though....

Sanji can't win he's not getting through the sand.

Which he will with his speed feats

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#79 Posted by Oingo_Boingo (150 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean beginning of Shippuden Gaara casually lifted this:

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#80 Posted by Hope_w (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:
@hope_w said

Okay fair enough, I didn't give you a fair chance a just ignored your post

Let's get to it then.

Speed feats from Kid Lee to suggest he's anywhere near the speed of Sanji (Alabasta and any arc before)

1. He gets scaling from sharingan Kakashi in-which case he even describes how fast he is, which via scaling and consistency, kid Lee in 4th gate would be a lightning timer:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

2. Ontop of that he also used the 5th gate to push him even further beyond that level:

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Not only is this consistent with Sasuke with Chidori being the same speed as Lee, the Jutsu that was just specifically stated to have split a bolt of lightning beforehand:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Where Lee even compares it to his own full speed rush, that's not all though....its hella consistent with the fact that Base Guy has the physicals of a 5th gate user which is why he and Lee skip said transformation inmediately to the 6th by the end of the war arc. In-fact here's Base Guy hanging with casual lightning timers:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Not to mention Through direct comparrison 5thgate Lee failed, whereas Guy pimphanded:

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3. By feats Gaaras sand not only blitzes people with the MS(proven lightning perception speed)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But is capable of intercepting attacks far faster than Lightning by part 2, showing the consistency of his growth:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Conclusion? Current strawhats scale to lightning level, at absolute best they're comparable with Kid Lee being a tad slower by scaling, by war arc its no longer debatable, 5th gate Lee can outrun TSB from Juudara:

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Kid lee more than makes up for the minimal speed advantage with a pretty glaring skill advantage as well if referencing anime.

Yeah I would like to see this argument of yours.

Say no more, back to the original statement, Gaaras sand is superior to ANY Haki construct ever shown in the verse:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

These are in reverse order so starting from the far Right:

Scan 1: Kimimaro's bones being stated denser than steel

scan 2: Gaaras Sand shattering denser than steel constructs (and one of his sand constructs destroying his ultimate attack which was stated to be even harder:)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Scan 3: Unweighted Lee punching through them as if it were wet paper.

So now that I've concluded that Lee is just as fast and his 'Haki' allows him to punch through surfaces that shatter things denser than steel, let's wrap this up with Lee being clearly more skilled.

So Sanji can see his next move? Cool, so could Sasuke Who has a much better precog:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Then we have natural talent, as in he stomped team Guy while slightly drunk, and did this to Kimi while being fresh from surgery:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

So yea....part 2 Lee stomps Sanji, Kid lee alone is debatably better.

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#81 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: Sanji was in a bubble you countered yourself thanks.

Only speed feat you posted want fast enough to bypass the sand. So ok?

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#82 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1: he used his own sand to stop it, look above^ no blue/gray markings which is what Shukaku's sand looks like.

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#83 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@theemperor95: @skysanji: Skysanji found a scan that compared him to tiny buildings to try and wank his size.

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You can see building larger than him, in no way is this City level.

Lol again read the series that is the palace which houses Giant mermaid/Mermen:

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Again read the Manga or watch the anime

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#84 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: That still doesn't make those building's city level lmao. He's not the size of a city.

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#85 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax said:

@skysanji: That still doesn't make those building's city level lmao. He's not the size of a city.

Not saying those buildings are just arguing against your lowball saying those are regular sized buildings when they aren't.

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#86 Posted by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

Oda confirms how big the surume is in the newest fanbook (300m). That's only as tall as the eifel tower and wadatsumi is smaller than him.

So large building level in size.

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#87 Posted by Jko1 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio

@vummax: He wasn't in tailed beast mode I know that but the point I'm trying to get at is that jinchuriki while in base are passively amped by their tailed beast.

Basically I'm saying that base Gaara from that Deidara fight is more powerful than base Gaara after he loese Shukakau.

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#88 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: nope you're just wanking it to city level.

Look I'll concede the moment you post a speed feat fast enough (lightning isn't) and a DC feat above City. Do that and I'll concede because you'd be right.

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#89 Posted by deactivated-5c531dce659a2 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1: Their Chakra doesn't mix unless the seal is broken that's why Naruto used his chakra then switched to Kurama's against Neji.

Gaara didn't break the seal so he was using his or Shukaku's not both at once. It was of his own power.

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#90 Posted by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1: kishimoto mentioned in an interview that losing shukaku didn't weaken his sand manipulation. We also see gaara pull off similar feats after losing his bijuu

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#91 Posted by Back_stabbath95 (2188 posts) - - Show Bio

@oingo_boingo: if you made a thread out of spite why did you do it all? Don’t make threads with a winner in mind

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#92 Posted by insaneMonk (138 posts) - - Show Bio

Alot of one piece lowball going on.. luffys strongest attack only city lvl and sanji only multi building lvl???? WTF sanji stomps ... pLS LOCK THREAD it's cancerous

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#93 Posted by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

Oda confirms how big the surume is in the newest fanbook (300m). That's only as tall as the eifel tower and wadatsumi is smaller than him.

So large building level in size.

Okay fair enough I was just going off of "looks"

Thanks for the info

But Attack potency is quite different so he doesn't have Dc but Attack potency

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#94 Posted by ManimalMan (839 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji: yeah sanji's clearly will above building level. I don't really recall him scaling to anything past town level though which isn't enough to deal with gaara.

His best bet is trying to blitz gaara right away. But we don't know the starting distance

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#95 Posted by UltimateSage (3141 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I know, unless sanji is HS+ in speed and is at city+ level he loses.

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#96 Edited by SkySanji (4835 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w said:
@skysanji said:
@hope_w said

Okay fair enough, I didn't give you a fair chance a just ignored your post

Let's get to it then.

Speed feats from Kid Lee to suggest he's anywhere near the speed of Sanji (Alabasta and any arc before)

1. He gets scaling from sharingan Kakashi in-which case he even describes how fast he is, which via scaling and consistency, kid Lee in 4th gate would be a lightning timer:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

2. Ontop of that he also used the 5th gate to push him even further beyond that level:

No Caption Provided

Not only is this consistent with Sasuke with Chidori being the same speed as Lee, the Jutsu that was just specifically stated to have split a bolt of lightning beforehand:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Where Lee even compares it to his own full speed rush, that's not all though....its hella consistent with the fact that Base Guy has the physicals of a 5th gate user which is why he and Lee skip said transformation inmediately to the 6th by the end of the war arc. In-fact here's Base Guy hanging with casual lightning timers:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Not to mention Through direct comparrison 5thgate Lee failed, whereas Guy pimphanded:

No Caption Provided

3. By feats Gaaras sand not only blitzes people with the MS(proven lightning perception speed)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

But is capable of intercepting attacks far faster than Lightning by part 2, showing the consistency of his growth:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Conclusion? Current strawhats scale to lightning level, at absolute best they're comparable with Kid Lee being a tad slower by scaling, by war arc its no longer debatable, 5th gate Lee can outrun TSB from Juudara:

No Caption Provided

Kid lee more than makes up for the minimal speed advantage with a pretty glaring skill advantage as well if referencing anime.

Yeah I would like to see this argument of yours.

Say no more, back to the original statement, Gaaras sand is superior to ANY Haki construct ever shown in the verse:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

These are in reverse order so starting from the far Right:

Scan 1: Kimimaro's bones being stated denser than steel

scan 2: Gaaras Sand shattering denser than steel constructs (and one of his sand constructs destroying his ultimate attack which was stated to be even harder:)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Scan 3: Unweighted Lee punching through them as if it were wet paper.

So now that I've concluded that Lee is just as fast and his 'Haki' allows him to punch through surfaces that shatter things denser than steel, let's wrap this up with Lee being clearly more skilled.

So Sanji can see his next move? Cool, so could Sasuke Who has a much better precog:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Then we have natural talent, as in he stomped team Guy while slightly drunk, and did this to Kimi while being fresh from surgery:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

So yea....part 2 Lee stomps Sanji, Kid lee alone is debatably better.

Just read through this entire thing and all you've used was Kakashi's cutting a lightning bolt to scale which is an Outlier seeing how during Sasuke and Itachi's fight

Both Sasuke and Zetsu were making a big deal out of lightning

Sasuke thinking it was going to finish off Itachi and Zetsu saying it's unavoidable both of these two unaware that Itachi was not in perfect condition, So they think a healthy Itachi cannot dodge Lightning

Not only that put Itachi was aim dodging said Lightning, he knew were it was coming from, Sasuke specifically told him that he would guide it with his hands in order for it to go to Itachi, there is no arguement to be made here, it's an outlier

Unless of course you think Kid Kakashi>Itachi in speed then if thats the case you are Gone

Now for your Tomoe Precog vs. Observation Haki precog,which the two Cannot be compared to one is specifically ise for Hand to Hand combat while one is not bound by those restrictions.

And example on why Observation Haki is superior in every way is Rayleigh while having his back turned and eyes closed could accurately state what the Elephant on Rusicana would do next basically Sharigan requires specific movement to use its precog meanwhile Observation Haki you don't need any of that

The sharigan's precog is completely different.

No Caption Provided
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Vs.

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Observation Haki let's you feel the presence of others and predict what they are going to do next

Basically what i'm saying is Sasuke, Itachi,Uchiha have to see their movements to use their Precog meanwhile someone can just be standing still and you can tell what they will do next with observation Haki

You can see how many people are around, Rayleigh used it to sense 500 creatures on the island.

No Caption Provided

It's even evident because it can be used while the eyes are closed and can even Dodge an attack while not looking at the creature and even knew where he would attack from.

No Caption Provided

Observation Haki is in a completely different tier compared to the sharigan's Precog.

Here is Sanji using Observation Haki, he sensed Katakuri's presence and predicted what he would do next without looking at him:

No Caption Provided

Meanwhile as seen with the Sasuke scans he has to specifically look at there movements

For your last point about Gaara's defense being stronger than Armanent Haki

None of those scans you've shown have anything on a fatigued LUFFY who was destroying multi city block ALL THE WAY BACK DURING THE ALABASTA ARC WITHOUT NO GEARS OR ARMANENT HAKI

Your logic is "Steel is pretty tough"

Your whole post just spews of Nonesense with you just arguing with Outliers for instance Lee reacting to Juubidara Gouda make, when 8 gates Guy couldn't even and it took Minato to Teleportation them away not only that but Gaara was able to bring his sand on towards Madara and let Kakashi Kamui, This is all before Guy could throw a punch..... that doesn't sound weird to you? Not even at all?

Another example Guy on Base keeping up with Bijuu Naruto and Obito but later using 7the gates against Madara....

You used scaling that Heavily relies on outliers

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#97 Edited by Yray (529 posts) - - Show Bio

Current sanji mid diffs at best and sanji after wano stomps and Eos sanji makes this spite not to even mention sanji might get a power boost next chapter via raid suit

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#98 Posted by ProbablyASphere (531 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha said:

this is basically a rematch of rock lee vs gaara

No Caption Provided

Gaara won that match though...

Sums up my thoughts. Sanji is a monster in physical encounters, but this isn't going to be that. Gaara is pretty unstoppable in the desert. He only lost to the weak ass Deidara because the bombs inside his own sand. Sanji isn't doing that. I think Zoro could beat Gaara under these conditions. I do not think Sanji could.

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#99 Posted by Jko1 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio

@jko1: kishimoto mentioned in an interview that losing shukaku didn't weaken his sand manipulation. We also see gaara pull off similar feats after losing his bijuu

Oh damn...I just realized how OP Gaara is now.

On-topic: Sanji high diff.

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#100 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

Gaara wins, seems some people didn't bother to factor in the location.