@toratorn: Luffy's attacks outside of gear 4th have casual multi-city block level output, and gear 4 was said to be 3 time more powerful than before by Doflamingo. Repeated punches over and over again are eventually to break through Ben's defenses
@hey_thatsmildlyadequate: lol. Punches from Hulk, Namor, Annihillus and dozens of other guys who would solostomp OP didn't put him down, but multi-city block lvl punches are going to. Good joke. Try punching down a brick wall with your fists, you'll have about as much success at bringing it down as Luffy scratching Ben (as in, none).
@toratorn: Hulk would literally punch Ben right into the sun if he wanted to. Luffy blitzing and punching Ben repeatedly in gear 4th where his attacks are at least city level are going to break him down eventually. Luffy can fight for hours on end, so hours and hours of repeated attacks like this are going to take him out. Ben doesn't have limitless durability, getting worn down is very much an option. At best it's a stalemate for Ben since he isn't tagging Luffy
@hey_thatsmildlyadequate: yeah, and that's exactly why during a dozens of fights Hulk had to strike Ben at least dozens of times to put him down. Now tell me. Does Luffy hit anywhere near as hard as Hulk? I'll answer for you: nowhere near close.
Also, there's Namor. A dude who can shake an island by slamming ground and cause global seismic activity during his fights. Also the same dude who said that Ben is his equal, which was confirmed by about ~10 fights they had over years.
Ben ignored a nuke, got hit in the face with an earthquake-causing hit, treated a mountain-busting machine as a training exercise (and casually overpowered it), got hit in the face by the same dude who was causing country-wide seismic activity in a weaker form and walked it off, yet somehow city block busting punches (hahaha) are doing something to him. Yeah, no.
Also, blitzing. Human Torch, a guy who can outrun a nuclear explosion, who can fly into space in moments, who can keep up with spaceships that reach Moon in span of several pages, who has several microsecond feats and who outrun Annihilation Wave bugs, who in turn can cross 250000 km is 4 minutes, can never blitz Thing and gets routinely tagged by him. Mar-Vell, Namor and Black Bolt, all people who casually flew to space in span of moments, tried to blitz Been and got knocked on their asses for trying. So how exactly is Luffy blitzing him once again?
Ben can react to him, no-sell his attacks and can one-shot him. This is a definition of mismatch.
@toratorn: Ok, Hulk would turn ben to dust in a second if plot armor was turned off so I'm not buying that. Thing is slow asf, his combat isn't even mach speed and "blitzing Human torch" is about as viable as Aquaman blitzing Wonder Woman. The feats your listing for speed honestly are barely comprhendable, unless you're trying to say Thing is massively hypersonic in which case L M A O, so yeah Luffy blitzes the hell out of him with more consistent and more reliable speed. And you ignored my point, gear 4 Luffy is easily city busting and can fight for hours on end, he would be hitting Thing hundreds to thousands of times within one hour. You seriously think Ben can just casually tank city busting hits over and over again for hours on end? Spare me.
And Luffy is also immune to blunt force, the only thing in Things arsenal. Even pre timeskip, when he was weaker and didn't have Haki, tanked an island splitting hit without an injury. Given Luffy speed and mobility advantage, precog, and complete immunity to what Thing has and the stamina to eventually break him down, theres literally no way Luffy doesn't win this
@toratorn: Ok, Hulk would turn ben to dust in a second if plot armor was turned off so I'm not buying that.
Yeah, cool, you're ignoring ~15 confrontations Ben had with Hulk, in neither of which he was "turned into dust", because "muh plot armour" (read: I don't like these feats so they don't count). Hell, there was even a time when Hulk was hit by gamma bomb, when he got (supposedly) amped, was angrier than ever and hit Ben who wasn't even trying to fight back, all while hallucinating and trying to kill him as a result. And guess what, Ben wasn't turned into dust. No, he wasn't even killed. Hell, he wasn't even knocked out. Sure, he had a broken rib, had blood in his mouth and couldn't move. But he was a hundred miles away from being "turned into dust". But then again, you're talking completely out of your ass and I doubt you read even one FF comic in your life, so I'm not surprised.
Thing is slow asf, his combat isn't even mach speed and "blitzing Human torch" is about as viable as Aquaman blitzing Wonder Woman.
I see you're not only talking with your ass, but also reading with it. Go on, quote me on saying that Ben "blitzed Human Torched". Go on. I'll wait.
The feats your listing for speed honestly are barely comprhendable, unless you're trying to say Thing is massively hypersonic in which case L M A O, so yeah Luffy blitzes the hell out of him with more consistent and more reliable speed.
So basically, your argument boils down to "lmao no". Top tier debating here, lad.
And you ignored my point, gear 4 Luffy is easily city busting and can fight for hours on end, he would be hitting Thing hundreds to thousands of times within one hour. You seriously think Ben can just casually tank city busting hits over and over again for hours on end? Spare me.
City busting forces are nothing to Ben. Or did you miss what I said about him not noticing a nuke or casually overpowering a mountain-busting device?
Also, fun fact: Ben once spent several hours fighting against an army of his own bloodlusted clones, and came out of it alive, well and mostly undamaged. Considering that a) Ben, and by extension, his clones, hit at least millions times as hard as Luffy, and b) there was an entire freaking army of them, I, once a-freaking-gain don't see Luffy even scratching him.
And Luffy is also immune to blunt force, the only thing in Things arsenal. Even pre timeskip, when he was weaker and didn't have Haki, tanked an island splitting hit without an injury.
Either you haven't heard what "NLF" is or you're straight up lying. Or both. Immune to blunt damage my ass. That's why he gets so visibly hurt by blunt damage attacks, I guess?
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"Island splitting hit". Real impressive. Ben hurt people who don't even bruise their knuclkles after punching with continental and higher energies. But go on, claim that "uuuuhhhh, Luffy is immune to blunt force, hurr-durr".
Given Luffy speed and mobility advantage, precog, and complete immunity to what Thing has and the stamina to eventually break him down, theres literally no way Luffy doesn't win this
To recap: your "arguments" can be summed up as "lmao no", "I'm not bying that cuz plot armour" and straight-up lies about blunt damage immunity. If that's the extent of your debating skills, you should stop embarassing yourself and never post again.
Either you haven't heard what "NLF" is or you're straight up lying. Or both. Immune to blunt damage my ass. That's why he gets so visibly hurt by blunt damage attacks, I guess?
The Franky example is just a weird outlier or the way Oda drew Luffy reacting, Luffy hasn't been bothered by a blunt attack which split an island in half and every other time he's been hit with similar force to Franky's Strong Right, it's the moment he usually just smiles and tells whoever is attacking him that type of attack doesn't work because he's rubber.
Your second scan of Lucci's Rokuogan isn't blunt force, it's a shockwave targeted at Luffy's internal organs.
@socajunkie: good to know. I literally googled "Luffy isn't immune to blunt force" and these pics came up.
Still, "being immune to blunt force" is the same sort of nonsense as "Saitama can one-punch anyone". His durability should only be as good as the strongest attacks that hit him.
@toratorn: He’s immune to it in his own universe, aka abiding by his universe’s own rules but translated to the forums it would be an NLF so yes his durability caps out at his best durability showing.
Uhh not if it's imbued with haki. So "immunity" isn't the right word. Resistance is more appropriate.
You knew what I meant you egg, the hell would I include Haki for, something that directly counters his DF powers which gives him his durability against blunt force in the first place.
@toratorn: ok then, Hulk nearly kills him when they fight but then assuming that is his raw, consistent durability, is on the same level as Hulk's strength, then its again at best a stalemate for Ben, as he isn't tagging Luffy whatsoever.
And sorry, I misread your comment "Also, blitzing. Human Torch, a guy who can" I didn't notice the period and thought you said blitzing human torch. So sorry. My bad.
But if you want to say my entire argument is just "lmao no" then fine, that was only addressing one part of what you said, and it wasn't even the main part of the speed argument. The whole reason Luffy even survived that hit from Moria that split the island in half was because of his blunt force immunity, and him getting punched by Franky there didn't even hurt him, alot of his fight with Franky was Luffy being caught off guard by his abilities. And can I get a source for that mountain busting device? The only feat I can think of that is similar is him overpowering a press that supposedly pressed through planets, but it was never shown that it could. I remember Ben nearly dying but taking out a dozen or so of his clones, but not mostly unharmed. Also, "Ben hurt people who don't even bruise their knuclkles after punching with continental and higher energies."
Soooo are you saying that Ben has continent level+ strength? Because if so I really dont even know what else to say
@socajunkie: ....that's what I thought. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not the version of Luffy that only punched someone through a city?
It's more complicated than that, he punched through two variants of strings more powerful than versions which dice meteors like butter- then the punch hit Doflamingo into the city below which folded the ground in two and the sides came up to about small mountain level in height.
So it's hard to quantify how powerful KKG would be if Luffy directly punched the ground. It's also worth noting that Luffy was nigh exhausted before performing the feat.
Yeah...... luffy's so called "city splitting" feat is A LOT less impressive wen u stop 2 realize dressrosa was hallowed out wit the underground port at best he cracked the outer shell of the city we need 2 stop the wank seriously ur making op fans look bad
Uh, no mate they are two different attacks, KKG is the more powerful version of KG.
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For Kong Gun, Luffy just retracts his fist into his arm.
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For King Kong Gun he blows air into his arm, making it bigger and then retracting his fist, in the left panel of the second scan you can see that his arm becomes bigger than his body.
I mean, you can literally see the size difference in the scans you just posted...
But lately He's been calling it just Kong Gun and Kong Orchestra is logically the same attack but in rapid fire.
@toratorn: ok then, Hulk nearly kills him when they fight but then assuming that is his raw, consistent durability, is on the same level as Hulk's strength, then its again at best a stalemate for Ben, as he isn't tagging Luffy whatsoever.
Not a stalemate. Ben can tag him. Just like he tagged people much faster than anyone in OP. And even if he can't, he can just wait till Luffy tires himself out. Or, alternatively, stun him with a thunderclap or hit the ground to produce a shockwave.
And sorry, I misread your comment "Also, blitzing. Human Torch, a guy who can" I didn't notice the period and thought you said blitzing human torch. So sorry. My bad.
Ok.
But if you want to say my entire argument is just "lmao no" then fine, that was only addressing one part of what you said, and it wasn't even the main part of the speed argument.
It wasn't? Let's recap. That's everything you said regarding my speed argument:
"The feats your listing for speed honestly are barely comprhendable, unless you're trying to say Thing is massively hypersonic in which case L M A O, so yeah Luffy blitzes the hell out of him with more consistent and more reliable speed."
Seems pretty spot on. That kinda "argument" even has a name: argument from incredulity. It's a logical fallacy, FYI.
The whole reason Luffy even survived that hit from Moria that split the island in half was because of his blunt force immunity,
"Immunity" is very relative. Let's, for the sake of argument, say that the highest tier in OP is island level, and that Luffy is "immune to blunt damage" by standarts of his own verse. Now here's a funny question. Would Luffy survive a blunt force from generated by the punch of, say, Hulk/Superman/Doomsday/Galactus? And before you answer this mind-boggling question, learn what NLF is.
and him getting punched by Franky there didn't even hurt him, alot of his fight with Franky was Luffy being caught off guard by his abilities.
Ok.
And can I get a source for that mountain busting device? The only feat I can think of that is similar is him overpowering a press that supposedly pressed through planets, but it was never shown that it could.
I remember Ben nearly dying but taking out a dozen or so of his clones but not mostly unharmed.
I don't know what you remember, but he didn't look like he was dying there.
Also, "Ben hurt people who don't even bruise their knuclkles after punching with continental and higher energies."
Red Hulk (who caused a seismic level 10 earthquake with his blows and shook America in his battle with Doc Green). Wonder Man, Hyperion (who were shaking the planetoid they were fighting on with their blows). Namor (who caused global seismic activity in his fight with some monster of the week). Hulk, Thor, Silver Surfer (no comments).
Soooo are you saying that Ben has continent level+ strength? Because if so I really dont even know what else to say
I'll answer that with another question. What level do you need to be to hurt people like Hulk, Hercules, Wonder Man, Red Hulk, Hyperion, Namor, Thor, Annihilus, Terrax, Thor?
The correct answer of that question would be "way above anything in One Piece" lvl.
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