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Posted by StealthGrey (356 posts) 11 days, 23 hours ago

Poll: Full power Fox Dark Phoenix vs 616 The X-MEN and Magneto (27 votes)

Jean still stomps 15%
She's out of her league here, gets Lolstomped 59%
Xavier shuts her down 4%
Erik crushes her 7%
Emma solos 4%
Betsy solos 0%
Quicksilver blitzes 7%
Stalemate 4%

Battle takes place outside of the X-Mansion, 50 ft apart

Bloodlusted Dark Phoenix Jean suddenly comes out of nowhere, ambushed the X-MEN and Magneto

She has 6 hours prep and basic knowledge

All the X-MEN and Magneto aren't holding back except Cycke, Logan and Xavier

Any win conditions

X-MEN: Prof. X, Wolverine, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Beast, Quicksilver, Nightcrawler, Gambit, Colossus, Psylocke and Angel

Magneto.

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#1 Posted by Oraculi (3881 posts) - - Show Bio

616 Xavier and Mags is the only real threat, together they win but its not a stomp for either side tbh.

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#2 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (3144 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier Solos

Emma Solos

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#3 Posted by death4bunnies (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen:

I agree the Prof can take her in a mind battle, but how can Emma?

The only notable standalone feat I can remember her having is erasing a memory on a city wide level.

Scaling she beat teen Rachel Summers in a mind battle iirc but I can’t remember anything better than that,

This version of the Phoenix has beat Apocalypse(who was stomping Xavier) in a mind battle, and she beat the professor strait up while he was amped by cerebro at max+ power. This professor can kill everyone mutant or human on the planet by concentrating really hard with cerebro.

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#4 Edited by GeorgeWBush (12500 posts) - - Show Bio

At her best shes definitely way above Psylocke and Emma and the main team

Probably a stalemate between her and Magneto though. As even if he destroys her she can regenerate, and I don’t know if he can bypass her shields which have tanked blasts from 616 Phoenix (albeit momentarily). Charles as well is a significant challenge with his TP

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#5 Posted by Noone1996 (12105 posts) - - Show Bio

So many characters solo. Magneto bends her blood and his shields block everything she throws at him while he does it (like he's done to 616 Thor). Xavier and Emma have planetary level telepathy feats. They solo. Quicksilver is not touched by her and his striking power actually isn't a joke unlike the live action version. He also solos. Everybody else could give her trouble but it'd be hard to make that argument. Team wrecks her.

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#6 Posted by geekryan (5097 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier, Emma, or Magneto can all solo.

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#7 Posted by thanosii (3143 posts) - - Show Bio

This Pheonix doesnt need a body so they cant hurt her. Only Xavier can make it a match, but she stomped Celebro Xavier who is planetary

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#8 Posted by APEX_pretador (21338 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: what planetary feats Emma has? And Jean stomped apocalypse who was manhandling planetary Xavier

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#9 Edited by Noone1996 (12105 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: She communicated on a planetary scale with mutants:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

She's also blocked 616 Xavier several times.

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#10 Posted by PyroFN (6633 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: 1) “Magneto bends her blood and his shields block everything she throws at him while he does it (like he's done to 616 Thor)”

Which Jean will heal and resurrect from if it actually works. She has molecular level tk with power on a planetary level, so she can debatably stalemate Magneto and eventually overwhelm him. Even Classic Magneto succumbs to Charles without Cerebro, so while its debatable, it’s a certainty that Magneto ain’t soloing even at his classic levels.

2) “Xavier and Emma have planetary level telepathy feats”

So does Fox Xavier without Cerebro and yet he couldn’t subdue her with Cerebro’s settings almost maxed out. She wasn’t even conscious when she did it. Neither Xavier or Emma will solo. If they work together though, that could be a different story depending on whether Dark Phoenix has any imperfections with her psi-shields.

3) “Quicksilver is not touched by her and his striking power actually isn't a joke unlike the live action version”

He can’t put her down permanently.

It is definitely taking a team effort.

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#11 Posted by Noone1996 (12105 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

Which Jean will heal and resurrect from if it actually works. She has molecular level tk with power on a planetary level, so she can debatably stalemate Magneto and eventually overwhelm him. Even Classic Magneto succumbs to Charles without Cerebro, so while its debatable, it’s a certainty that Magneto ain’t soloing even at his classic levels.

Yes, I'm sure 616 Magneto will struggle with FOX Jean Grey as much as he did with 616 Phoenix:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So does Fox Xavier without Cerebro and yet he couldn’t subdue her with Cerebro’s settings almost maxed out. She wasn’t even conscious when she did it. Neither Xavier or Emma will solo. If they work together though, that could be a different story depending on whether Dark Phoenix has any imperfections with her psi-shields.

They've also both telepathically affected characters with actual resistance feats unlike the featless ones the FOX characters dealt with.

He can’t put her down permanently.

It is definitely taking a team effort.

She's not touching him and he could just keep killing her over and over again. This idea that she cannot lose because she gets resurrected is approaching no-limit fallacy levels. That's like saying Thor cannot beat Deadpool because he will ultimately keep reviving and coming back to life.

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#12 Edited by PyroFN (6633 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: 1) How’s about using an instance where Phoenix doesn’t have psychic circuit breakers to cut off her power after being exhausted from the M’Kraan Crystal.

Nice try though.

2) I wouldn’t call Xavier on Cerebro featless.

3) Magneto has limits, or did you forget the Fatal Attractions arc where Xavier has pierced Magneto’s defenses twice in a row. Or the Even of Destruction arc where Jean pierced through his defenses.

Meanwhile, Dark Phoenix has no limits. We aren’t talking about a regular mutant. We are talking about a cosmic force that sparked creation for an entire universe and casually destroys planets. Magneto is way out of his league here and he doesn’t have the feats to say he could put up any fight on his own against Jean whereas she does. End of story.

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#13 Posted by Noone1996 (12105 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn:

Even that version of Jean Grey would still be more powerful than the FOX one.

Why not? What kind of telepathy has he resisted? Movie Xavier with cerebro might be planetary, but that doesn't mean he could, for example, telepathically do as well against Phoenix Cyclops as the 616 version did. 616 versions are just simply better.

Now you really are approaching no-limit fallacy arguments. Jean "has no limit"? So then why even admit that the team could beat her? How can they beat a being that is supposedly universal with no limits and a multi-planet buster? Ridiculous.

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#14 Edited by PyroFN (6633 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: 1) “Even that version of Jean Grey would still be more powerful than the FOX one.”

You will need to be more specific. I mentioned to versions of Jean in my reply. Phoenix posing as Jean and Revolution era’s Jean.

Either way, you’d be correct about the former, but not about the latter. Even still, Phoenix still has circuit-breakers in place to cut her powers before reaching cosmic proportions, so that still wouldn’t work in her favor in a fight against Fox Dark Phoenix who doesn’t have those same limits. Now Dark Phoenix and agreement Phoenix afterwards, yes, they’d wreck Fox Phoenix.

2) “Why not? What kind of telepathy has he resisted?”

Going by the First Class trilogy only, Emma Frost, Selene, and Apocalypse.

3) “Movie Xavier with cerebro might be planetary, but that doesn't mean he could, for example, telepathically do as well against Phoenix Cyclops as the 616 version did”

I don’t think so either, but neither can 616 Magneto or Xavier for that matter. They had to battle him and Emma as a team in order to keep him subdued, which even then didn’t even work. Not comparable at all to Phoenix Jean back in the 70’s, just after the M’Kraan Crystal incident, who had exhausted herself and wasn’t well-versed in using her cosmic abilities. The comparisons just don’t work.

4) “So then why even admit that the team could beat her”

Your argument is that they can solo against her. Not on whether they can take her as a team. And i did mention in my comment, not aimed at anyone in particular, that the team would need really good teamwork and even then, it’s a long shot against someone who can atomize you in the blink of an eye. My point was that Magneto and Xavier and Emma would need each other for the battle. No one is soloing her and they still have a long-shot of winning. We don’t know what her defenses are like, but if she can casually resist a Cerebro-amped Xavier who had put blocks on her memories and powers as a child and hen stomp him as she wakes up not fully realizing what’s going on entirely, it is less of likelihood that Xavier and Emma without Cerebro could penetrate her defenses without a viable distraction to throw off her focus, which was only done twice in the film. Once from Kurt porting her and once from a D’Bari impaling her just as she is finishing off some of his allies.

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#15 Posted by njones5 (407 posts) - - Show Bio

You all do realize the only time we got to see Jeans full Power was after she incinerated Vuk... even during the train sequence, Vuk had some of the Phoenix’s power which Jean absorbed at the end of the movie, after destroying Vuk.

I fail to see how Jean cannot simply regenerate. She was impaled on a spear, and got right off it, just fine. Tell me what would they do to her....

Jean Grey in Fox without the Phoenix force was able to destroy Apocalypses armor which btw was made by CELESTIALS. And we actually have ppl who think Emma is going to solo. That’s stupid.

The Force by itself is (AT LEAST) capable of destroying planets as was shown during the sequence Vuk showed to Jean. And considering Jean is “special” as Vuk couldn’t take the entirety of the force (despite being one of the strongest members of the d bari who on top of that have enhanced strength, durability, etc.), Jean would have no problem incinerating Emma as well. Whether Jean wins or not, I didn’t say. However, we really need to stop with the “Emma can solo.” She cannot. You know this, and you’re lying.

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#16 Posted by Darkthunder (3225 posts) - - Show Bio

Qs,nags, Xavier solo