FOX Psylocke/Emma Frost/Storm vs. MCU Scarlet Witch/Ancient One/Quake

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GeorgeWBush

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Civil War Wanda

Quake has her gauntlets

Who wins/Starting distance 40 feet

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VS

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americanspeeddemon

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Leaning team 2 in a good fight. SW and he ancient one> emma frost and psylocke. Storm will be a problem but she will eventually be overwhelmed.

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Rockette

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Team 2 ftw, if just.

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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Emma solos.

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americanspeeddemon

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AngelJax

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#6 AngelJax  Online

MCU Team, Wanda and TAO should be able to counter Emma's TP and overall the MCU team packs a way bigger punch.

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AlmightyAmortal

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#7  Edited By AlmightyAmortal

1st team wins.

Emma might solo.

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americanspeeddemon

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@nightmare52: Scarlet Witch has controlled people around a city block at least so that shouldn't put emma above SW.

EDIT: also iirc young professor X was only building level in tp

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@nightmare52: Scarlet Witch has controlled people around a city block at least so that shouldn't put emma above SW.

EDIT: also iirc young professor X was only building level in tp

ok ,but scarlet witch TP is TOO SLOW and she has no counter TP BATTLE.

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americanspeeddemon

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americanspeeddemon

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@nightmare52: it was mind control from the mind gem. Plus emma was easily overpowered in tp by prof x in thier second encounter and could only protect herself by turning into diamond.

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captain_inverse

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#15  Edited By captain_inverse

TEAM 1

Emma's diamond form protects her from Telepathy, from there, Emma can psychically defend the other 2. In her diamond form, only quake has a chance of physically hurting her.

Storm forces ancient one/wanda to be on the defensive with lightning; or they get fried.

Psylocke cuts them up with superior CQC skill and versatility

team 1 wins with moderate difficulty

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@nightmare52:

it was mind control from the mind gem.

natasha too broke it with a kick.

mind gem isn't like TP it more like Hypnosis.

Plus emma was easily overpowered in tp by prof x in thier second encounter and could only protect herself by turning into diamond.

irrelevant , anyway Charles >>>> wanda.

and wanda's TP is too slow.

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americanspeeddemon

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@nightmare52: Emma's tp was broken by two people walking into a room.

What's the difference. Hypnosis is a form of tp it really is just semantics.

Wanda has better tp feats than first class xavier and her tp is really only slow across large distances in short range or against one person it's pretty effective. Not to mention she would be more likely to use defensively anyways.

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xtreme1

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I have an honest question for everyone who thinks Wanda could use telepathy during a combat situation. Why didn't she use telepathy during the Civil War airport fight?

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deactivated-59d29c479f1ca

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@nightmare52:

Emma's tp was broken by two people walking into a room.

who was as fast as emma .

What's the difference. Hypnosis is a form of tp it really is just semantics.

r u dumb or pretending to be a dumb.

Wanda has better tp feats than first class xavier and her tp is really only slow across large distances in short range or against one person it's pretty effective. Not to mention she would be more likely to use defensively anyways.

wanda's TP is slow and clearly visible.

emma's TP is fast and invisible.

so emma would have turned skye and ancient one against wanda before wanda could realize since her TP is slow .

and ancient one would , BFR wanda to the mirror world or skye would kill KO her like WM did.

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those_eyes

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@xtreme1 said:

I have an honest question for everyone who thinks Wanda could use telepathy during a combat situation. Why didn't she use telepathy during the Civil War airport fight?

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Rag_man

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Scarlet Witch solos

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americanspeeddemon

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@nightmare52:

Emma's tp was broken by two people walking into a room.

who was as fast as emma .

What does speed have to do with anything?

What's the difference. Hypnosis is a form of tp it really is just semantics.

r u dumb or pretending to be a dumb.

Way to insult me. Why don't you explain what you mean by the difference maybe it could be a key to winning me over to your side of the argument.

Wanda has better tp feats than first class xavier and her tp is really only slow across large distances in short range or against one person it's pretty effective. Not to mention she would be more likely to use defensively anyways.

wanda's TP is slow and clearly visible.

emma's TP is fast and invisible.

so emma would have turned skye and ancient one against wanda before wanda could realize since her TP is slow .

and ancient one would , BFR wanda to the mirror world or skye would kill KO her like WM did.

No, Emma's TP isn't as strong as you remember. She is probably the weakest Fox verse telepathy. Her telepathy was broken by Magneto.

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And failed on a regular person after Charles and Erik walked in on him.

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Not to mention the fact that she never fully mind controlled anyone in the movie. Emma has only ever used TP on 1 person at a time and it has never been that effective. She isn't controlling anyone here especially not with how her TP can be broken if the victim is distracted for even a second.

@xtreme1:Directors said she wouldn't use it on her friends and that if she used it she would have soloed the other team. The directors intentionally nerfed her. I couldn't find the exact quote I was looking for but here's a more recent one that focuses on similar ideas.

You know she could’ve stopped that fight at the airport in 5 seconds if she were at the peak of her powers, so it really has to do her character specifically going on a journey to understand what the limits of her powers are.

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@rag_man said:

Scarlet Witch solos

her TP is Too Slow , she would have died long before.

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americanspeeddemon

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@DammeFavour: In what way?

EDIT: I'm genuinely curious and hoping for criticisms of my viewpoints it helps me to grow as a debater. But at the moment this is how I see and interpret these characters.

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arkbound

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#26  Edited By arkbound

@those_eyes said:
@xtreme1 said:

I have an honest question for everyone who thinks Wanda could use telepathy during a combat situation. Why didn't she use telepathy during the Civil War airport fight?

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because they were, at that point, her friends and family?

She used TP against Thor in AoU. Or are we not considering that a combat situation?

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arkbound

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TEAM 1

Emma's diamond form protects her from Telepathy, from there, Emma can psychically defend the other 2. In her diamond form, only quake has a chance of physically hurting her.

Storm forces ancient one/wanda to be on the defensive with lightning; or they get fried.

Psylocke cuts them up with superior CQC skill and versatility

team 1 wins with moderate difficulty

Wanda pushed Vision through several floors of a building. Emma in diamond form was physically stopped by Charles and Magneto. How is Emma defending anyone from Wanda?

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those_eyes

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@arkbound said:
@captain_inverse said:

TEAM 1

Emma's diamond form protects her from Telepathy, from there, Emma can psychically defend the other 2. In her diamond form, only quake has a chance of physically hurting her.

Storm forces ancient one/wanda to be on the defensive with lightning; or they get fried.

Psylocke cuts them up with superior CQC skill and versatility

team 1 wins with moderate difficulty

Wanda pushed Vision through several floors of a building. Emma in diamond form was physically stopped by Charles and Magneto. How is Emma defending anyone from Wanda?

No Caption Provided

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arkbound

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#29  Edited By arkbound

@those_eyes: thats why I like you TE, you're reasonable

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mrmonster

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#30  Edited By mrmonster

Ancient One solos

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arkbound

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@DammeFavour: In what way?

EDIT: I'm genuinely curious and hoping for criticisms of my viewpoints it helps me to grow as a debater. But at the moment this is how I see and interpret these characters.

you are doing fine

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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@arkbound:maybe because emma doesn't a gem that increases her density stuck to her head?

@americanspeeddemon: ur videos completely contradict all of ur points

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arkbound

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@DammeFavour:

@arkbound:maybe because emma doesn't a gem that increases her density stuck to her head?

Sorry im not entirely sure what you mean by this

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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@arkbound: wanda didn't "push" vision down, vision dropped under his own weight, she interfaced with the gem increasing his density

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@nightmare52:

What does speed have to do with anything?

emma's TP worked in less than a sec.

it works in the same was as charles who was able to TP Ship captain to bomb his ship who was at least 1 km away in less than a sec.

SW TP took 2 sec at short range (helen cho scene) and >3 sec in long range (depends on distance).

at 40 m (battle condition)

emma cold reach them opponent team instantly and turn them against SW.

Way to insult me. Why don't you explain what you mean by the difference maybe it could be a key to winning me over to your side of the argument.

Hypnosis - A sleep-like state usually induced by another person.

Telepathy - sending and receiving of messages by the mind.

No, Emma's TP isn't as strong as you remember. She is probably the weakest Fox verse telepathy. Her telepathy was broken by Magneto.

it didn't fail, she turned into diamond mode and just throw him off the boat.

And failed on a regular person after Charles and Erik walked in on him.

which was interfered by Charles , who defeated shadow king (FX)

Not to mention the fact that she never fully mind controlled anyone in the movie.

she was talking with talking with Colonel Hendry via TP.

she can create TP illusion to Russian General.

she used Psionic Blasts on magnito.

Emma has only ever used TP on 1 person at a time and it has never been that effective.

she literally blocked charles TP connection to everyone on the boat in the video u provided.

She isn't controlling anyone here especially not with how her TP can be broken if the victim is distracted for even a second.

she was able to make multiple attempts when charles interrupted before he made him sleep.

She broke broke a hypnosis state not a TP .

TP >>>>hypnosis.

You know she could’ve stopped that fight at the airport in 5 seconds if she were at the peak of her powers, so it really has to do her character specifically going on a journey to understand what the limits of her powers are.

lamest excuse .

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Gotoucanario

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#36  Edited By Gotoucanario

storm solos

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arkbound

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#37  Edited By arkbound

@DammeFavour: so we are ignoring the thrusting motion she makes (and subsequent energy / red light that follows him down)?

Yes she controlled his density, but she still, using TK, pushed him through that building

Loading Video...

But even if your not convinced I still fail to see what Diamond Form Emma could do against a TK'er who encased an explosion. Even her mid-level / casual feats are way more than Emma has shown to be able to take

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@arkbound said:

Wanda pushed Vision through several floors of a building.

which took her more than 10 sec to power up.

Emma in diamond form was physically stopped by Charles and Magneto.

magneto stopped her diamond body who was able to lift a submarine .

How is Emma defending anyone from Wanda?

wanda has no TP resistance , so she would control her.

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@arkbound said:

so we are ignoring the thrusting motion she makes (and subsequent energy / red light that follows him down)?

took her more than 10 sec to power up.

Yes she controlled his density, but she still, using TK, pushed him through that building

FYI see that scene again she removed his GEM and took her more than 10 sec to power up.

But even if your not convinced I still fail to see what Diamond Form Emma could do against a TK'er who encased an explosion. Even him mid-level / casual feats are way more than Emma has shown to be able to take

wanda has no TP resistance to say that she can counter Emma's Psionic Blasts which she did on magnito.

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arkbound

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#40  Edited By arkbound

@nightmare52:

Wanda pushed Vision through several floors of a building.

which took her more than 10 sec to power up.

Then look at her other feats (it actually didnt take her time to power up but any of her other feats are more than adequate to solve this idea that Diamond Emma is any match for wanda)

The "10 sec" btw is her shifting his density. Its not a charge up time

Loading Video...

Emma in diamond form was physically stopped by Charles and Magneto.

magneto stopped her diamond body who was able to lift a submarine .

Did you see the video? I wasnt referring to Magento or Charles using there powers. I was saying it took just two men to grab and restrain her in that form

Loading Video...

How is Emma defending anyone from Wanda?

wanda has no TP resistance , so she would control her.

Emma cant use TP in Diamond form.

If you are arguing that Emma would mind control Wanda fine, but that isnt what I was talking about or debunking so from my pov this last comment is irrelevant

All I was discussing is the absurdity in which people think Diamond form Emma can take Wanda

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deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

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@arkbound: she tried encasing an explosion. She couldn't actually contain it, she could only hold for a few seconds. Emma could trap wanda and her team in an illusion or straight up beat them to death, she's alot stronger than them

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destinyman75

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Lol this is silly storm is the only threat here/Emma's TP was weak Wanda would obliterate her, she could use diomand form until Quake took her down, storm might keep Wanda or Quake in the defensive but ancient one would have her shooting Lightning up down and all around wanada takes psy purple girl who has few feats (even if she is cool), ancient makes storm dizzt trying to keep up, and Quake puts eemma down in diomand form

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destinyman75

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@arkbound: You are 100%/accurate, Wanda showed combat tk and has more feats then Emma

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arkbound

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@DammeFavour: again Im not making the TP argument for Wanda against Emma

Im saying Diamond Emma cant take Wanda in a fight. Its not happening

And do you realize how strong she would need to be to encase an explosion for even the time that she did? And your just going to say she should have held it longer? Seriously the lowballin on this thread is laughable

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arkbound

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I'm inclined to say MCU team winning the majority.

Storm is the only threat if she is pissed.

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americanspeeddemon

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@nightmare52:

What does speed have to do with anything?

emma's TP worked in less than a sec.

I said that her TP was broken by two people walking into a room. You said the two people were as fast as her. I don't understand what you meant by that.

it works in the same was as charles who was able to TP Ship captain to bomb his ship who was at least 1 km away in less than a sec.

Charles TP is on a completely different level than hers. Not to mention TP users in the Foxverse do have different powers Emma hasn't shown to be able to fight in the astral form, infect people's minds like apocalypse, do a mind freeze like Xavier. Just because she has TP does not mean she has the same powers as Professor X.

SW TP took 2 sec at short range (helen cho scene) and >3 sec in long range (depends on distance).

It was pretty much instant in the Helen Cho scene there's one shot of wanda using her powers and the next shot is Helen Cho with SW's powers already affecting her (you can see the noticeable red tint). I tried going through Frame by Frame and it could be seen as something as small as 5 frames.

at 40 m (battle condition)

emma cold reach them opponent team instantly and turn them against SW.

Can you show me feats of Emma using her powers on multiple people at once or of mind control?

Way to insult me. Why don't you explain what you mean by the difference maybe it could be a key to winning me over to your side of the argument.

Hypnosis - A sleep-like state usually induced by another person.

Well the Staff doesn't induce a sleep like state nor is the affect induced by a person so literally nothing in this definition would lead me to think of Hypnosis over mind control.

No, Emma's TP isn't as strong as you remember. She is probably the weakest Fox verse telepathy. Her telepathy was broken by Magneto.

it didn't fail, she turned into diamond mode and just throw him off the boat.

She turned into diamond form after magneto broke out of her psi attack grabbed a knife and threw it at shaw.

And failed on a regular person after Charles and Erik walked in on him.

which was interfered by Charles ,

I watched it a few times and I don't think it was Prof X in the movie almost exclusively touched his temple when using his powers (I can't really think of a time when he didn't)

who defeated shadow king (FX)

Not canon

“The cinematic universe will not worry about Legion. They will not worry about these TV worlds as all. They will just continue in the way that they have been continuing, and there is some great stuff that we are developing. I can just say it’s going to be new and different, and yet Legion and our other show, we’re not going to get in each other’s way.”

--

“Matt’s is much more a part of just the world in terms of there are mutants, mutants are hated and there are Sentinels — though very different from what we’ve seen before. You feel like you’re here in the X-Men world. With Legion, we’re our own universe. It gives Noah the freedom to do what he wants to do. Because we play with so many different timelines, and we rebooted and not really rebooted and all that, we felt like, OK, we’re going to throw it out there and hope the fans accept it.”

and also not relevant to the time of First Class. He even says in the movie that Emma is the first Telepath he's run into besides himself.

Not to mention the fact that she never fully mind controlled anyone in the movie.

she was talking with talking with Colonel Hendry via TP.

she can create TP illusion to Russian General.

she used Psionic Blasts on magnito.

Okay none of that disproves what I said

Emma has only ever used TP on 1 person at a time and it has never been that effective.

she literally blocked charles TP connection to everyone on the boat in the video u provided.

Charles was only trying to use TP on Shaw based on dialogue and Emma attacked Professor X

"I can actually feel her mind inside of mine"

That's still only a use on one person.

She isn't controlling anyone here especially not with how her TP can be broken if the victim is distracted for even a second.

she was able to make multiple attempts when charles interrupted before he made him sleep.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here sorry.

She broke broke a hypnosis state not a TP .

TP >>>>hypnosis.

You're definition for hypnosis actually disproves that it's hypnosis also again hypnosis is a form of mind control anyways. The Mind Gem has shown to be much more effective than Emma's TP.

You know she could’ve stopped that fight at the airport in 5 seconds if she were at the peak of her powers, so it really has to do her character specifically going on a journey to understand what the limits of her powers are.

lamest excuse .

That's what the directors said not me.

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@americanspeeddemon:

sorry little busy right now , i would just make my point short few of ur point were right too.

mind gem worked like hypnosis since the command was to be said some kind of physical means , in TP they have to think to make others to do .

so hypnosis <<< TP.

emma's TP worked in the same time difference as charles while they were fight with that that general in bed.

so emma's speed = charles speed.

emma turned into diamond right before magneto thrown that knife that's why her TP was broken with magneto.

SW has no TP resistance to say that she can counter Emma's TP.

how does SW can find that her team is compromised by emma ????

if SW didn't do that in battle What makes her to do her ???

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destinyman75

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#49  Edited By destinyman75

@arkbound: lol true some are confusing on here ^^

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americanspeeddemon

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@nightmare52:

sorry little busy right now , i would just make my point short few of ur point were right too.

mind gem worked like hypnosis since the command was to be said some kind of physical means , in TP they have to think to make others to do .

so hypnosis <<< TP.

Professor X numerous times had to speak to use higher functions of his abilities in First Class not to mention that the mind gem did effect people beyond what they were ordered to do. It made Hawkeye on Loki's side not just forcing him to follow Loki's orders he could still make decisions like telling him about Fury's plan, shooting Fury, etc., but his mind had been twisted. This wasn't just generic hypnosis but an actual twisting of the desires and priorities of those under its command they still have perfect free will but they want to follow Loki/ whoever has the sceptre's orders. It is definitely not hypnosis.

emma's TP worked in the same time difference as charles while they were fight with that that general in bed.

so emma's speed = charles speed.

emma turned into diamond right before magneto thrown that knife that's why her TP was broken with magneto.

That's not true. Magneto remembered his mom's death an pulled the knife on Shaw Emma transformed to save him. You can see it in the video he breaks out about 2 or 3 seconds before her diamond form is seen. Not to mention it wouldn't make any sense to let a powerful mutant out of a tp attack for no reason. I mean if she could mind control him she could have just told him to jump off the boat.

SW has no TP resistance to say that she can counter Emma's TP.

Again she broke the mind gem's mind control.

how does SW can find that her team is compromised by emma ????

When has emma mind controlled anyone let alone more than one person at a time?

if SW didn't do that in battle What makes her to do her ???

She has used TP in battles before.

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