Fox Apocalypse vs Itachi Uchiha

@notcensored: you agree the time isn’t real in said illusion, so how does this grant it 4D potency?

Technically speaking there is no dimensions in said illusion

It isn’t actually controlling time, just the perception of time.

You said it was infinite, as if infinite in an illusion means anything, if you agree why would you even bring that up as a point?

You haven’t said anything of value that would actually place it at 4D

Time does not exist inside an illusion

@notcensored: 1. To be 4D you would have to control time in the real world not in an illusion. It being a mere illusion is what makes it not 4D. Even that wouldn't truly be 4D since you would need to transcend time itself and controlling time doesn't make you transcend time.

2. Oh I now see what you're saying but that still isn't 4D. As I said controlling time and transcending time are 2 different things and he merely controls it within an illusion. Even saying it's 4D potency is misleading entirely and is just trying to fluff it up to make it sound better.

3. Anyone who creates an illusion control all reality in that illusion. The illusion 101 lol so him controlling everything in that illusion doesn't make anything 4D since it is again simply an illusion

4. The area charles fought apocalypse at the end was an infinite plane inside of his mind. He even created the mansion inside of it meaning he also has control over it and apocalypse straight up stomped him inside of it

5. Charles has never tried to kill anyone which is why he hasn't used any lethal moves. He's a pacifist

6. Your problem falls apart when you realize that apocalypse already stomped someone with stronger TP in their own realm to the point their physical body was dying. On top of that it lasts for a mere instant in the real world and is not a win condition

7. You know that claiming someone distorting another person perception of time has 4D potency means that aizen KS has 4D potency. You and everyone agreeing with you just accepted the fact that it's stronger than basic genjutsu and it still couldn't defeat yhwach lol

By statements, Apocalypse is TK resistant so he should take that quite easily.

@whyzoserious: Resistance is different from immunity. Just throwing that out there.

Unless you actually meant "resistant" then okay. Cause some people have gotten "resistance" and "resistant" mixed before. I dont know enough about apoc to argue but itachi has other hax like totsuka blade which is a temporal (not physical) weapon that seals you upon being stabbed and yata mirror which changes its properties to watever is hitting it in order to block it. Thats probably all im gonna say about the debate tho cause again. Idk enough about apoc.

@notcensored: 1. For someone to be 4D they have to transcend time. Doing it in an illusion is not transcending time just distorting it. For it to be 4D it would have to transcend time in the real world.

2. You don't transcend time in an illusion. There is no time in an illusion just a perception of time.

3. Again it's an illusion. If it was a pocket dimension then sure you could argue he is 4D inside of that dimension but it's not one

4. You literally see it expanding on forever. It has as much claim to infinite as tsukuyomi or orochimaru jutsu does. Orochimaru relies on a self statement and itachi relies on a databook filed with hyperbole

5. Itachi can kill one person while charles has shut off the minds of hundreds all at once casually and has done so on multiple occasions. That's far superior to killing some random girl on one occasion especially when everyone else he used it on never died Charles purposefully doesn't kill anyone.

6. False before yhwach even gained the almighty right after he stomped ichigo he said aizen managed to distort his perception of time. This made him not realize that he had to go back soon than he thought

7. You saying distorting someone perception of time is 4D mind hax contradicts everything about it being basic genjutsu since we have on panel evidence of it distorting someone's perception of time. If you're going to say tsukuyomi is 4D mind hax for messing with someone's perception of time then you must also say KS is 4D mind hax for doing the same thing

You guys are stupid for entertaining this topic

4-D potency, lol but Itachi does win here

Apocalypse wins this. Itachi isnr 4D anything.

Xmen telepaths in comics have been creating mental dimensions and controlling perception of time in it since the 90s, theyve been fighting on infinite dimensions and planes of existence since the 60s, theyve been giving people years of living and trains in their minds with illusions without people calling them 4D anything. Heck they project their minds to the past, to teh future, to other galaxies, to other dimensions and to other universes without people calling them 4D anything.

Tsukuyomi is childs play to the Xmen comic world. While the movies may not be as advanced in telepathy, they are still high level.

Movie Xavier casually kills a lot of people, making them unable to breathe , as an old weak man. When he was younger he was controlling peoples perception of time, to make it seem as if he froze time. Heck check the movies and see how his powers affected physical things in the areas affected.

Then amped by Cerebro he was about to turn of the minds of every human on earth. Same charles with cerebro got overpowered and had his mind hijacked by apocalypse.

Then Charles created a mansion on the astral plane and pulled apocalypse there to fight thinking he had the ho,efield advantage, and still got stomped.

Itachi isnt doing much to that. 4D my ass.

Lmfao. Rachel, jean, psylocke, sersi, moondragon,shadow king,xavier and emma frost must all be 5D because theie feats blow anything itachi has done out of the water.

Christ, he manipulates perception of time in an illusion and suddenly hes a 4D being

Itachi stomps. Amaterasu one-shots.

I don't know... I think the whole idea of Tsukuyomi being 4D is pretty much irrelevant. To the person that Tsukuyomi is being inflicted on Itachi may as well be 4D. Itachi has complete control of time and reality in the dimension. And of course his illusions are not going to age. Because they are illusions. He basically does everything that a 4D character can do in the dimension. But we don't know if he's beyond the concept of time. It's not like whoever he is fighting could use whatever time based abilities they have in an illusion and Fox Apoc definitely doesn't have the TP feats to do what Itachi can with Tsukuyomi. Unless you want to present them. We don't know how large the Tsukuyomi dimension is. But Orochimaru's and Kaguya's were pretty large. So assuming it is comparable theirs I'd say the dimension is bare minimum planet sized but likely much larger. Orochimaru outright called his dimension a Universe. So it must have been absurdly big. If that's the case. Being able to read the minds of every person on a planet for like 2-3 minutes. Can't really be compared to being able to manipulate an entire dimension, including the time within it. On the scale that Itachi does.

@notcensored: 1. It's not irrelevant. There is no time in an illusion but what you create

2. Itachi has no on panel feats of infinite anything. It's also false to assume he wouldn't kill kakashi as he was about to kill kurenai if she didn't break the genjutsu.

3. You are somehow using orochimaru statement about himself which is completely separate from itachi to justify itachi tsukuyomi being infinite. That's terrible logic

4. Tell me what's better sasuke putting all 9 tailed beast under genjutsu with a single glance or itachi killing that fodder? Sasuke glance doesn't show any potency whatsoever so itachi MS genjutsu stronger than sasuke rinnesharingan confirmed???

5. If you say sasuke is more impressive then so is charles as the people he has shut down have been far stronger than random fodder

6. https://www.mangareader.net/bleach/514/14

There's the scan of aizen messing with yhwach perception of time and messing with perception of time in the real world>>>>>then doing it in a illusion

7. Itachi didn't drag anyone into a universe. That's the issues he merely showed an illusion. Idk how you don't understand the difference between an actual universe and an illusion. If itachi teleported them to a different dimension and then showed the same mastery you could argue that.

For example in marvel dormammu exists within his own universe and has complete control over it so you would say has 4D powers within that universe. Itachi doesn't do this

This man must be a born troll. His arguments are not even 4th grade level and has proven he is entirely biased towards naruto

@notcensored: you're claims have been debunked multiple times. You keep saying something is 4D in a place where time doesn't exist

You also haven't applied the same logic you're using to others verses. That's the definition of bias lol

@notcensored: you responded to skrskr saying that altering someone's perception of time is 4D mind hax.

I then show a scan of aizen altering someone's perception of time and you say it's not 4D mind hax... that's bias and it's all I need to show that you are clearly trying to wank itachi and not apply that logic to other people

@notcensored: Dude, just move on to someone else.

When it comes to Naruto vs Bleach debates, it just seems like Naruto has to be nerfed and Bleach has to be wanked.

He's obviously not going to believe you despite the LITERAL EVIDENCE shoved in his face.

@notcensored: Give up and move on.

In every thread I come across, it seems Naruto verse has to be Nerfed.

He's clearly not going to believe you despite the LITERAL evidence shoved in his face.

@notcensored: you don't mention infinite planes at all though

@animefreak1: so you also agree that KS is beyond normal genjutsu? Good to know

@theemperor95: Only somewhat

Itachi blitz the freak