Fox Apocalypse vs Itachi Uchiha

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StealthGrey

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Poll: Fox Apocalypse vs Itachi Uchiha (35 votes)

Apoc 34%
Still Itachi 66%

Fight takes place in Egypt, 100 ft apart

No prep/knowledge

Apoc is full bloodlusted

Itachi is in-character, he's in terminal illness condition

Win by any means

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BladeOfFury

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Feats for Itachi?

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TheKAPPA78

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Yamiyodare

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Itachi dies.

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eri123

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Apocalypse.

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OnlyOneEmpereor

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Apocalypse blinkstomps.

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BladeOfFury

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OnlyOneEmpereor

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bait thread

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BleachHub

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Itachi spite stomps

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Hawkman25

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lol

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TheEmperor95

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Itachi is gonna need either totsuka or amaterasu before apocalypse puts up them shields. He ain't blitzing though

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eri123

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BladeOfFury

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@eri123: Smh Apocalypse has planetary TP resistance

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StealthGrey

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@bladeoffury: Itachi fodderized Kid Sasuke who could stomp Gaara's sand which reacted to point blank explosion. Hold his own against KCM Naruto h2h, react to Kirin (making him a lightning timer), Master of Genjutsu (Illusion techniques like Telepathy. Genius-level intellect, smarter than Kakashi, he became Jonin at the age of 10.

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eri123

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TheEmperor95

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@stealthgrey: those are cool and all but those feats aren't above apocalypse

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deactivated-5dbdb3c31507c

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Apocalypse blinks.

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TheEmperor95

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@routyek: how does he stomp?

Apocalypse has beaten a planetary telepath on multiple occasions

Far better reactions

His shields can block any attack that itachi throws

And he can just transmute itachi into the ground

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MoneyyJunee

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#19  Edited By MoneyyJunee

TP ftw

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ourmanuel

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BleachHub

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@ourmanuel: Itachi's genjutsu is not only fundamentally different as an ability, but it also has way more potency than movie Charles' TP.

Tsukuyomi GG

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TheEmperor95

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@bleachhub: how does it have more potency? Charles could kill entire groups if people with a thought if he wanted to. He's already shown the ability to shut people down. A bloodlusted Charles would simply stop their heart or turn them into a vegetable.

All of this on a planetary scale as well which is far above tsukuyomi

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BleachHub

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@theemperor95: Tsukuyomi has 4D potency lowballing. That's way above planetary. And itachi has actually killed someone with tsukuyomi as well, so...

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ourmanuel

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@theemperor95: Tsukuyomi has 4D potency lowballing.

wtf, how did you to that conclusion?
That's way above planetary. And itachi has actually killed someone with tsukuyomi as well, so...

charles in his old age could do that.

@ourmanuel: Itachi's genjutsu is not only fundamentally different as an ability

it’s still TP lol

, but it also has way more potency than movie Charles' TP.
Based on?

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TheEmperor95

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@bleachhub: this 4D potency is what exactly? I haven't seen that

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Master_ChadDuby

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Itachi solos the verse and stomps the 616 version of this unattractive character.

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NotCensored

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#27  Edited By NotCensored

@bleachhub: this 4D potency is what exactly? I haven't seen that

Tsukuyomi allows the user to control all of space, time (He's made someone live from their teenage years all the way till they were Eighty in an instant) and gravity within the Illusion (4D) basically what Itachi does is verbatim beam an Infinite Illusionary Universe into your brain (It's legit called an Infinite plane and he's made Infinite clones of himself before inside it and even Orochimaru has created a Genjtusu Universe in the official translations)

Killing Yashiro with Infinite clones;

No Caption Provided

2nd Data Book;

An inner hell as eternal as Heaven and Earth.The grip held onto the principles of all creation thoroughly annihilates one’s heart and soul!!

The ultimate doujutsu made possible only by Mangekyou Sharingan. Amidst the insight and hypnosis possessed by Sharingan, is a supreme genjutsu, born from the aforementioned hypnosis: Tsukuyomi. Originally, people on the face of the Earth live bound by limitations like time, gravity, and space; and how people exert their abilities within those restrictions is what separates the victors from the vanquished.

But in the mental world where the caster drags their opponent, the Tsukuyomi jutsu gives them control over those very limitations! Namely, this means inside the genjutsu, the physical world’s common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible.

Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster’s hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches…!!

Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful.

Sharingan is the Kekkei Genkai of the clan labelled as the most powerful, the Uchiha clan. Even among those who have Sharingan, that jutsu cannot be operated without having Mangekyou, which is its culminating point. Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors… And even then, exclusively the elite shinobi who have reached particularly high degrees of skillfulness. Once could say this is truly a God-given jutsu solely allowed to those blessed with Uchiha blood and prodigious aptitudes. The moment the adversary is exposed to Mangekyou Sharingan, a strange realm as they’ve never seen before extends before their eyes.

In there, the world’s principles themselves obey the caster’s beck and call.

Since attacks in the spiritual realm have no power to physically wound or kill, it bestows an unfathomable amount of mental damage.

Only those of Uchiha blood… Does it mean only Sasuke has a chance to break a Tsukuyomi? The phenomena that happen inside of the mental realm are entirely the caster’s to command.

Izumi;

No Caption Provided
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Orochimaru official scans;

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No Caption Provided

So yeah 4D Mind Hax are actually really consistent within Naruto.

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BleachHub

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@theemperor95 said:

@bleachhub: this 4D potency is what exactly? I haven't seen that

Tsukuyomi allows the user to control all of space, time (He's made someone live from their teenage years all the way till they were Eighty in an instant) and gravity within the Illusion (4D) basically what Itachi does is verbatim beam an Infinite Illusionary Universe into your brain (It's legit called an Infinite plane and he's made Infinite clones of himself before inside it and even Orochimaru has created a Genjtusu Universe in the official translations)

Killing Yashiro with Infinite clones;

No Caption Provided

2nd Data Book;

An inner hell as eternal as Heaven and Earth.The grip held onto the principles of all creation thoroughly annihilates one’s heart and soul!!

The ultimate doujutsu made possible only by Mangekyou Sharingan. Amidst the insight and hypnosis possessed by Sharingan, is a supreme genjutsu, born from the aforementioned hypnosis: Tsukuyomi. Originally, people on the face of the Earth live bound by limitations like time, gravity, and space; and how people exert their abilities within those restrictions is what separates the victors from the vanquished.

But in the mental world where the caster drags their opponent, the Tsukuyomi jutsu gives them control over those very limitations! Namely, this means inside the genjutsu, the physical world’s common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible.

Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster’s hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches…!!

Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful.

Sharingan is the Kekkei Genkai of the clan labelled as the most powerful, the Uchiha clan. Even among those who have Sharingan, that jutsu cannot be operated without having Mangekyou, which is its culminating point. Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors… And even then, exclusively the elite shinobi who have reached particularly high degrees of skillfulness. Once could say this is truly a God-given jutsu solely allowed to those blessed with Uchiha blood and prodigious aptitudes. The moment the adversary is exposed to Mangekyou Sharingan, a strange realm as they’ve never seen before extends before their eyes.

In there, the world’s principles themselves obey the caster’s beck and call.

Since attacks in the spiritual realm have no power to physically wound or kill, it bestows an unfathomable amount of mental damage.

Only those of Uchiha blood… Does it mean only Sasuke has a chance to break a Tsukuyomi? The phenomena that happen inside of the mental realm are entirely the caster’s to command.

Izumi;

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Orochimaru official scans;

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So yeah 4D Mind Hax are actually really consistent within Naruto.

Thanks bro. Didn't have these scans on hand and didn't feel like looking for them. You came in clutch 😎👍👌

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TheEmperor95

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@notcensored: @bleachhub: none of that is 4D potency...the reaching is beyond insane lol

1. First off tsukuyomi is a genjutsu that distorts the opponents since of time nothing more. Well aside from mentally torturing them

2. Having someone live out 60 potential years of their lives isn't even close to 4D. It's mental overload at best

3. Orochimaru calling that a universe means it's a universe?? It's the inside of his mind iirc

4. All those feats you post are nothing outside of what charles can do or even has done. He's routinely distorted entire groups (not single individuals) some of whom are mutants with a mere thought from the other side of the world. He's controlled an entire airport of people and walked right passed people without them being able to see him because he's stopped their perception of time. All of his TP feats are far above anything itachi has done and he was ragdolled by apocalypse on several occasions

5. None of this even helps itachi who is far slower than apocalypse to begin with

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NotCensored

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@notcensored: @bleachhub: none of that is 4D potency...the reaching is beyond insane lol

Controlling time completely would entail 4D potency you do know time is a dimension right?

1. First off tsukuyomi is a genjutsu that distorts the opponents since of time nothing more. Well aside from mentally torturing them

He's controlling time completely across an infinite plane within the Illusion its 4D in potency and distorting their perception of time is exactly what we're arguing for we aren't saying he's 4D IRL.

2. Having someone live out 60 potential years of their lives isn't even close to 4D. It's mental overload at best

That's not what makes it 4D, what makes it 4D is the infinity part and the fact he controls basically all of reality inside the Illusion

3. Orochimaru calling that a universe means it's a universe??

Yes especially when other characters have universe sized Genjutsu

It's the inside of his mind iirc

I never claimed it was a real universe i said it was an illusion

4. All those feats you post are nothing outside of what charles can do or even has done.

When has FOX Charles ever controlled Space, Time and Gravity or even to the degree Itachi does within his mind attacks more over when has he done infinite anything within his mind attacks?

He's routinely distorted entire groups (not single individuals) some of whom are mutants with a mere thought from the other side of the world.

That's range not potency this is like comparing a knife that can cut through anything vs a regular spear

He's controlled an entire airport of people and walked right passed people without them being able to see him because he's stopped their perception of time.

That doesn't even compare to making someone perceive the rest of their life in an instant

All of his TP feats are far above anything itachi has done and he was ragdolled by apocalypse on several occasions

Yes cause Charles has obviously made infinite versions of himself to attack someone infinitely in the span of a second, Charles doesn't compare to Itachi's TP nothing in FOX does unless something happened in Dark Phoenix that i missed.

5. None of this even helps itachi who is far slower than apocalypse to begin with

None of that will matter when Apocalypse is in the Illusion

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AnimeFreak1

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NotCensored

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AnimeFreak1

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BleachHub

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AnimeFreak1

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MattyBoi

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Genjutsu GG.

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AnimeFreak1

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Skrskr

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Affecting someone’s perception of time is not the same as altering time itself....

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NotCensored

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@skrskr said:

Affecting someone’s perception of time is not the same as altering time itself....

No one claimed it was....

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Skrskr

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@notcensored: you are claiming 4d potency by altering someone’s perception of time...

that makes 0 sense

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NotCensored

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@skrskr said:

@notcensored: you are claiming 4d potency by altering someone’s perception of time...

That would be Mind Hax with 4D Potency.....

that makes 0 sense

It makes complete sense i just think you and everyone else just don't understand that controlling time within the illusion is essentially the same thing as controlling time IRL (with the difference being ones an Illusion and the others reality obviously) which would be 4D, the whole "it's just altering their perception of time" argument is relevant as that is what all Illusions do, alter the targets perceptions of reality, its the level to which Mind Hax does it is how we attribute its potency.

Whether you want to argue it would work on a 4D being is irrelevant because to a 3D being its essentially 4D Mind Hax in potency.

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Skrskr

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@notcensored: controlling time in an illusion is massively different than controlling time in real life, one is an illusion....

The other is in reality where there are real consequences for making someone live out a thousand years in a second..

He isn’t actually controlling time at all, he is just making people think they are living that long...because it’s an illusion and not real.

These 2 are massively different in scale

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BleachHub

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#43  Edited By BleachHub

The fact that the illusion encompasses an infinite realm with time to which he has full control over, makes it 4-D

Universe/infinite realm/ whateveryouwannacallit- length, width, and depth= 3 dimensions (3-D)

time- another dimension= 4th dimension (4-D combined with the others)

The Tsukuyomi's illusionary world that it projects into your brain has all of these dimensions as demonstrated by the statements. Itachi has full control over this infinite 4-D illusion. (Has absolute control over space, time, and the laws of reality within this illusinonary universe.

This isn't that far fetched, as demonstrated earlier by @notcensored, Orochimaru within official translations has created an entire universe within his mind which he controls.

It's not that hard a concept to grasp. I shouldn't have to break it down step by step

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NotCensored

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@skrskr said:

@notcensored: controlling time in an illusion is massively different than controlling time in real life, one is an illusion....

Not for the person affected which is the entire point of Mind Hax to begin with

The other is in reality where there are real consequences for making someone live out a thousand years in a second..

There are real consequences for living a life time in Tsukuyomi let alone a thousand years;

No Caption Provided

He isn’t actually controlling time at all, he is just making people think they are living that long...because it’s an illusion and not real.

Again for the person affected he is doing that which is the entire point and it wouldn't matter because thats what we're talking about MindHax not reality warping, the Mind Hax have 4D potency because it can do exactly that (Control Time completely on an Infinite Plane) it not being real is irrelevant to the discussion because we've already established that its an illusion from the start.

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Skrskr

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@notcensored: the stress that tsukuyomi puts on ones brain that can kill them is not the same as physically aging someone that much, because why? You aren’t really controlling time just someone’s perception of time.

Control time on an Infinite plane? Tsukuyomi can’t do that lol

It makes your brain think you are living that long, you don’t actually experience that much time.

If itachi put ainz in tsukuyomi ainz would just actually stop time making this 4d argument ridiculous.

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Oreo6

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@skrskr: I thought this was a discussion of TP vs TP though. Even if itachi isnt physically aging them, i thought the whole point of there argument was that itachis tsukiyomi TP allows him to control all of time and space in said TP.

The argument wasnt about what it does in the physical relam. Its about how strong it is in the mental realm.

At least thats what i thought they wrre saying. That being said, does apocalypse have any TP where he basically puts you in a universe where he controls space and time?

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NotCensored

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@skrskr said:

@notcensored: the stress that tsukuyomi puts on ones brain that can kill them is not the same as physically aging someone that much,

He literally physically has someone age till they're Eighty within the Illusion 🤦so he literally ages them mentally which would be the Illusionary equivalent of aging them physically.

We've already established physical=/=mental you're just continuing to repeat yourself as if we haven't been talking about an Illusion from the start.

No Caption Provided

because why? You aren’t really controlling time just someone’s perception of time.

Which is still 4D Mind Hax 🤦and i've already stated controlling their perception (of time) is irrelevant because thats what all Illusions do your just repeating yourself and failing to meet burden of rejoinder.

Control time on an Infinite plane? Tsukuyomi can’t do that lol

It's verbatim called an Infinite plane and he's verbatim made Infinite versions of himself inside it which ya know need infinite space to exist and its verbatim stated he can control time within it.

I posted all of these scans and translations earlier in the thread Post #27.

It makes your brain think you are living that long,

Still 4D Mind Hax 🤦it making you think that is the entire point of the argument, which i never made the claim that the controlling of time had to be real to be 4D especially when we're talking about Mind Hax

you don’t actually experience that much time.

You literally experience everyone moment just not physically which was never argued for in the first place

If itachi put ainz in tsukuyomi ainz would just actually stop time

You've already established that 4D IRL and 4D Illusions are different are you backtracking on that point now?

and are you implying Ainz stopping time within Tsukuyomi would even do anything when Itachi has complete control over time within it?

making this 4d argument ridiculous.

4D Potency argument and you haven't countered it yet

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NotCensored

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#48  Edited By NotCensored

@oreo6 said:

I thought this was a discussion of TP vs TP though. Even if itachi isnt physically aging them, i thought the whole point of there argument was that itachis tsukiyomi TP allows him to control all of time and space in said TP.

The argument wasnt about what it does in the physical realm. Its about how strong it is in the mental realm.At least thats what i thought they wrre saying.

That is the argument, his argument is that its not actually affecting time (something no one claimed to begin with) just their perception of it (The entire point of Illusions to begin with) which is irrelevant, being "fake" 4D doesn't matter cause its inside their mind to begin with

He's oddly took the stance that reality=/=Illusion while also using reality to argue against said Illusion, its strange.

That being said, does apocalypse have any TP where he basically puts you in a universe where he controls space and time?

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Skrskr

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@notcensored: no it is not, if I put you in a virtual reality machine and made you experience 100 years of life in 10 seconds and you die of old age in the virtual reality and as a correlation your real brain shuts down because it can’t tell the difference, did I actually age you and your mind or did I just trick your brain into thinking it aged?

That is literally what tsukuyomi does.

The brain in the Tsukuyomi can’t tell the difference therefore it thinks it’s going through whatever is being presented in said illusion.

An illusion being described as infinite doesn’t compare to actual infinite physical objects, the amount of energy required to actually create infinite itachis in the real word compared to infinite itachis in an ILLUSION is infinitely different.

Ainz actually stopping time in the real world would stop time in the illusion because the illusion isn’t actually happening...

Are you suggesting a time stop in the real world would have no effect on tsukuyomi?

You are just as bad as anime freak lol

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Skrskr

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@oreo6: I’m not necessarily arguing that apoc can beat itachi in a battle of minds, I’m just arguing that affecting someone’s perception of time is completely different than actually affecting time.

As nothing in tsukuyomi is really happening, the persons brain thinks it is and that’s where the damage comes from.

Itachis genjutsu does not have 4d potency